Police identified the California bar gunman as Ian David Long. Here's what we know about the shooter: The gunman's body was found in the bar. The shooter is dead, and his body was found inside the bar, police said. He was dead when police arrived on the scene, Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean said. He used a handgun. Dean said that officials found a Glock .45-caliber handgun at the scene. The weapon usually holds 10 rounds and one in the chamber, but the gunman used an extended magazine in this shooting, Dean said. He was a Marine Corps veteran. Long was on active duty with the US Marine Corps from August 2008 to March 2013, according to Department of Defense records. Authorities had "minor" run-ins with him before. Dean described several "minor events" between Long and authorities, including a traffic collision. Long was the victim of a battery in 2015 and in April, deputies were called to his house for a subject disturbing. One thing we don't know: There is no known motive in the shooting, Dean said. Personal Thoughts Another shooting has taken place in the U.S. leaving 12 dead and more injured with critical status. It's hard to think that we deal with a mass shooting every other month and barely bat an eye at what truly is the problem at hand, which is Guns. I'm not saying that all Gun rights should be revoked, but it is entirely too easy to purchase a firearm in the U.S. This shooting took place in California, which actually has rather strict gun laws (https://oag.ca.gov/firearms). Something needs to be done, but, the way i see it, nothing will be done. "No thoughts, no prayers, can bring back what's no longer there" - Grandson - Thoughts and Prayers Source - https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/index.html UPDATE Quoted from https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/09/us/thousand-oaks-shooting/index.html Thousand Oaks gunman went from Marine vet to mass shooter. Investigators want to know why. A day after a Marine Corps veteran stormed into a country music dance hall in California and opened fire into the crowd, killing 12 people, investigators said there is no clear motive behind the attack. Authorities say Ian Long, 28, fired a Glock .45-caliber handgun without a word as many patrons line-danced at the Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks around 11 p.m. (2 a.m. ET) Wednesday. He first shot a security guard and a woman working at the counter, but authorities say there was no indication he was targeting employees. Hours after police found Long dead of what is believed to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound, law enforcement officials swarmed the home where he lived with his mother to search for clues, while hundreds of people joined family, friends and survivors to mourn the victims. Latest developments •From young Marine to a gunman. Long served in the Marines for nearly five years as a military machine gunner and was deployed to Afghanistan, Defense Department records show. •A mental health expert declined to commit gunman. Police were called to Long's home in April for reports of a disturbance and a crisis team felt he might be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, but they ultimately cleared him. •Long's mother "lived in fear" of what her son might do, a neighbor says. She was concerned about Long, the neighbor said, but she was not worried about her own safety. Personal Opinion This is a tragedy that all could've been avoided. If only he had received the proper help he so desperately needed, and didn't have access to a firearm. |
izumaNov 9, 2018 7:04 AM
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| inb4 thoughts and prayers.... again while still no gun control ye i heard california have gun control laws but im talking in general there in USA to lessen more gun violence |
deg said: inb4 thoughts and prayers.... again while still no gun control ye i heard california have gun control laws but im talking in general there in USA to lessen more gun violence Yeah, I can't even with America when it comes to gun control. Not delving into it because the post might get locked for violation. But, it's sad to think that if you live in the U.S. it's just normal to see a shooting once a month. It's only been 12 days since the Synagogue shooting that took place in Pittsburgh. It's getting to the point where this is just reality... |
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Izuma-_ said: deg said: inb4 thoughts and prayers.... again while still no gun control ye i heard california have gun control laws but im talking in general there in USA to lessen more gun violence Yeah, I can't even with America when it comes to gun control. Not delving into it because the post might get locked for violation. But, it's sad to think that if you live in the U.S. it's just normal to see a shooting once a month. It's only been 12 days since the Synagogue shooting that took place in Pittsburgh. It's getting to the point where this is just reality... this kind of breaking news is allowed here on MAL just add some few thoughts of your own in the first post though because its against the rules to not do so |
| I just read about this a little while ago. There's rumors that some people at the bar were survivors of the 2017 Las Vegas shooting. |
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Seiya said: I just read about this a little while ago. There's rumors that some people at the bar were survivors of the 2017 Las Vegas shooting. Seriously? That'd be terrible. I mean, I can't imagine being in the midst of a shooting, i really can't. Especially not twice... |
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Izuma-_ said: Seiya said: I just read about this a little while ago. There's rumors that some people at the bar were survivors of the 2017 Las Vegas shooting. Seriously? That'd be terrible. I mean, I can't imagine being in the midst of a shooting, i really can't. Especially not twice... Yeah, I imagine these people don't sleep very well, and when they do, they probably still have nightmares about it. It's not something I would want to experience. |
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| Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean: the gun used in the shooting was bought leally Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean said that Ian Long drove to the Borderline Bar & Grill on Wednesday night and opened fire before he entered the nightclub. Long, who had served in the U.S. Marine Corps, used a Glock .45-caliber handgun that he purchased legally, Dean said. https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/california-mass-shooting-thousand-oaks-bar-today-2018-11-08-live-updates/ |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
| @DreamingBeats I think the scary thing about that, in most shootings, legal guns are used. People rightfully own them. That's the concerning factor for me. |
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Izuma-_ said: If guns kill people then cars make people drive drunk. It's the people doing the crime that are at fault, I don't see why people always play the blame game for things like this....It's hard to think that we deal with a mass shooting every other month and barely bat an eye at what truly is the problem at hand, which is Guns... OT: I wonder how well that shooting would have gone if someone else had a gun for self-defense... |
    Dreaming 'bout long gone things;Days, on end, repeating infinitely. Like the inside of a never-ending dream, Whilst looking for the endless morn... Only to return to the dream again |
Ota_000 said: Izuma-_ said: If guns kill people then cars make people drive drunk. It's the people doing the crime that are at fault, I don't see why people always play the blame game for things like this....It's hard to think that we deal with a mass shooting every other month and barely bat an eye at what truly is the problem at hand, which is Guns... OT: I wonder how well that shooting would have gone if someone else had a gun for self-defense... guns and cars have different purposes, guns purpose is to solely kill/harm while cars are use mainly for transport adding more guns will just increase the gun violence especially the collateral damage more guns = more deaths less guns = less deaths thats the logic behind gun control laws |
| Makes me sad Nothing should go untreated. I hope a future president will make mental healthcare and similar services more widely available and easier to access. Something's gotta be done. |
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| @Ota_000 Yes, you're correct. The gun didn't shoot itself now did it? But, how'd he get the gun in the first place, huh? He got it legally. He purchased a weapon, maybe not at the time, but later, for the intent of harming others. We gave him access to the gun, because it's our right to own a lethal weapon that serves no purpose, other than the sheer destructiveness behind it. What I'm getting at here, is why do we, as a first world country, allow people to own firearms to begin with. I don't necessarily want to take them all away. I feel firearms should be left at the firing range, or rent them when you want to hunt. Now, The Second Amendment is one of 10 amendments that form the Bill of Rights, ratified in 1791 by the U.S. Congress. The Second Amendment gives us the right to bare arms. But do we really need this, it's 2018. We aren't relying on guns for our independent survival. Ota_000 said: I wonder how well that shooting would have gone if someone else would have had a gun for defense... The shooter was an ex-marine. The guy knew what he was doing. Now, obviously in order to carry a concealed weapon you have to complete safety courses (not in all states, but in the state of California you do) so the Armed Civilian would've had an idea of what he was doing. But that also leads to my next concern. Is this "person" going to be able to remain calm. Is he/she really going to be some hero without experiencing anything of that nature before. You need to take into consideration the shock factor that will inevitably set in whilst an event like that. All i'm saying is I wish the U.S. would revise their guns laws. I'm not saying take them all away, but figure something out so these weapons are not so easily accessible. It's getting to the point where people are going to stop caring about Mass Shootings and treat it like it's completely normal. The more and more we see of this the more we as a society began to desensitize. |
izumaNov 8, 2018 10:05 AM
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| What I was trying to say in my parallel is blaming the inanimate object is pointless, you should blame the person behind the wheel/trigger. Let's say there was someone at the bar besides the gunman that had a firearm, and had been able to prevent the greater loss of life, would you want to prevent that other person from carrying? And do gun laws really help prevent "gun violence", think about it, if someone really wanted to get their hands on a gun for a tragic reason they could always turn to an illegal source, but they [the laws] can also prevent the "do-gooder" in my scenario from having a firearm for self-defense in the first place. |
| Dreaming 'bout long gone things; Days, on end, repeating infinitely. Like the inside of a never-ending dream, Whilst looking for the endless morn... Only to return to the dream again |
Ota_000 said: What I was trying to say in my parallel is blaming the inanimate object is pointless, you should blame the person behind the wheel/trigger. Let's say there was someone at the bar besides the gunman that had a firearm, and had been able to prevent the greater loss of life, would you want to prevent that other person from carrying? And do gun laws really help prevent "gun violence", think about it, if someone really wanted to get their hands on a gun for a tragic reason they could always turn to an illegal source, but they [the laws] can also prevent the "do-gooder" in my scenario from having a firearm for self-defense in the first place. the purpose of laws like gun control is not to completely stop crimes but to lessen it chance of happening significantly |
| @Ota_000 According to the Washington Post, there are more guns than there are people in the United States. This isn't including Military/Police weapons. This study conducts the statistics of legally owned civilian firearms. According to this survey there are 393 Million firearms to 326 Million U.S. Citizens. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/there-are-more-guns-than-people-in-the-united-states-according-to-a-new-study-of-global-firearm-ownership/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3136738f7906 This article is fairly new as well. Why bring this up? Because, lets think for a second, hypothetically because I know this isn't possible. We take away all these guns. Every last one of them. We put them in firing ranges or dispose of them properly, it really doesn't matter at this point they've been taken away. So now that all these guns are off the streets, your concern is that America will still struggle with mass shootings and other gun related crimes due to the obtainment of illegal firearms. Now, yes, this is probably an outcome that would happen. I don't think strict gun laws will put a complete seize to shootings/gun related crimes, but I think it's a start. Let's take a look other countries and see how they compare to the U.S. Americans own nearly half (48%) of the estimated 650 Million Civilian- owned guns worldwide. The number of firearms available to American civilians is estimated at around 310 million, according to a 2009 National Institute of Justice (NIJ) report. (2009 ^ This doesn't contradict my last sentiment as that survey was new) India is home to the second-largest civilian firearm stockpile, estimated at 46 million. According to the Small Arms Survey, the exact number of civilian-owned firearms is impossible to pinpoint because of a variety of factors including arms that go unregistered, the illegal trade and global conflict. (if you wish to read more about this happily do so https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html ) The amount of firearms in the United States alone is insane. Idk, i could go on forever with this. I'm going to stop myself now. We can agree to disagree just like we've seen in Congress. Our opposing viewpoints will never be able to agree and we will forever be at a standstill. -Your friendly 16 y/o Izuma |
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| From what I read of the article in the first post, it looks like the guy went on a rampage, then killed himself. -Edit- a Ventura County Deputy Sheriff is among the deceased. link Now my views on guns are conservative, by the way, and I do agree with some of the laws (like the laws against military-style guns and bump stocks) so here's a scenario, let's say someone buys a gun while it is still legal to buy and own, but due to changes in laws, that weapon is now illegal; how legal is that weapon? Would it depend on the weapon, would it be affected by proof the gun was bought legally? Or how about instances where it's legal to buy a gun as parts, but once the gun is assembled, it is considered illegal to own? Therein lies the controversy of this topic. (I agree, Izuma, just thought I'd put my 2 cents in.) |
| Dreaming 'bout long gone things; Days, on end, repeating infinitely. Like the inside of a never-ending dream, Whilst looking for the endless morn... Only to return to the dream again |
| @Ota_000 Well, I think if laws were implemented that initially made whatever gun had been legal, illegal for whatever reason, that if you don't turn in the weapon responsibly for a loan-some of cash, that you could have like a misdemeanor or something. Nothing like a felony unless what they owned was of significance all depending on what has been prohibited. As far as the assembly of weapons goes I'm not sure. Depends on what you're assembling for say and what modifications you may or may not add. I'll say this too, I understand the desire to own guns. Growing up in South Dakota, a fairly conservative state and definitely pro-gun state at that, I've shot my fair share of weapons and have hunted multiple times. Firing off these weapons is exhilarating and fun. But, I've seen more harm done than good when it comes to these. That is why my views are so, biased. |
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| Sounds like PTSD is the cause of the shooting given his record and that he was in the military. It's got nothing to do with guns and more with the stigma of PTSD, you have doctors that still think it doesn't exist. |
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Hoppy said: Sounds like PTSD is the cause of the shooting given his record and that he was in the military. It's got nothing to do with guns and more with the stigma of PTSD, you have doctors that still think it doesn't exist. Yeah i was reading about that. Kind of have a little empathy for him now. |
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| I mean, it was a friggen Marine. You could have taken his guns away then he would just be like that ex-army vet who killed people with a katana. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-army-veteran-james-harris-jackson-kill-black-man-new-york-timothy-caughman-sword-racist-attack-a7645736.html |
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Ota_000 said: f someone really wanted to get their hands on a gun for a tragic reason they could always turn to an illegal source, but they [the laws] can also prevent the "do-gooder" in my scenario from having a firearm for self-defense in the first place. did the shooter gets his gun legally or illegally? this is a rhetorical question btw. theres the mistaken assumption that every single one who buys guns legally will always be at a healthy mental state and wont go shooting random people because they are stressed. also, the "good guy carrying a gun and shooting the criminal" is the absolute best case scenario. what if the "good guy" accidentally shoots and kills an innocent person caught in the crossfire? there is also the assumption that the good guy has a good aim and is well-positioned to shoot. this may not necessarily be the case in every shooting situation. |
DreamingBeatsNov 8, 2018 2:01 PM
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
| ok i am going to be serious would stricter background checks on the level of drivers licences really bother people that much? @DreamingBeats i grow weary of the "metaly ill." myth. most psychologist will point out that people with metal illnesses are more like to be victims then gun swinging lunatics. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
hazarddex said: ok i am going to be serious would stricter background checks on the level of drivers licences really bother people that much? @DreamingBeats i grow weary of the "metaly ill." myth. most psychologist will point out that people with metal illnesses are more like to be victims then gun swinging lunatics. i said mental state, not mental illness. someone who is not mentally ill can still suffer a temporary period of stress that make them more prone to shooting people. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
| all my thoughts and condolences going to the families of the people who were murdered. |
 Ｓｗｅｅｔ♥I guess, as long as I have life, all I can do is fight with all my might. |
Hoppy said: Sounds like PTSD is the cause of the shooting given his record and that he was in the military. It's got nothing to do with guns and more with the stigma of PTSD, you have doctors that still think it doesn't exist. article also mentions he was a victim of battery & has prevous minor run-ins w/ the law dit guy was ticking tiem bomb poor mental health & background checks but incedent blamed on an inanimate tool yet again |
SlawadiaNov 8, 2018 3:44 PM
papsoshea said: Is it me or do these things seem to occur more in Democrat states/cities where the elected officials are Democrats and there is some sort of gun control? Maybe. All these Trump-supporting shooters obviously want to target people whose opinions differ from their own. |
papsoshea said: Is it me or do these things seem to occur more in Democrat states/cities where the elected officials are Democrats and there is some sort of gun control?  it's linked as most of democrats area is suburban cities when gun is imported to them, and targeted the crowds or communal... when in republican area, which is mostly densely populated areas, the gun is used to kill their self... |
KumaNov 9, 2018 6:35 AM
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Borderline Bar & Grill was a Country music bar he frequented. I'm starting to see a possible correlation between enjoying Country music and homicidal ideology. There has been a few studies that linked it to suicide. Though they were pretty flawed in method. There was a time he was psych analyzed but they missed possible warning signs. I'm unsure if this was due to a bad job or bad method of assessing or just it isn't easy to spot. Neighbors said Thursday they would hear loud, aggressive fights between the two. Authorities said they visited that ranch-style house only once, in April, after a neighbor reported yelling and crashing sounds. Deputies found Long “was somewhat irate, acting a little irrationally” and called in a mental health specialist, Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean said. That specialist assessed Long but concluded he couldn’t be involuntarily committed for psychiatric observation. “The mental health experts out there cleared him that day,” Dean told reporters Thursday, though they were concerned he might be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder because of his military service. “Obviously he had something going on in his head that would cause him to do something like this,” Dean said. https://apnews.com/02bebe042ba94f68b510b918d9fb6d04 Looking up California's gun laws I see what could have prevented him had he been held from that situation he wouldn't have been able to legally get a gun. You can not purchase a gun in California if you are diagnosed with a mental illness and pose a clear threat to someone specific. https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/prohibcatmisd.pdf However a psych evaluation is not required on registering for a gun which I can see as a possible partial solution for some cases. |
| Dunno if people calling for gun control read up on the article or not, but the killer was a marine veteran. So who better to own a firearm than him? It sounds like he was suffering from PTSD. Even had the police summoned and he was given a psych evaluation but they passed him off. |
 I'd like to know more about this underwear story. Was the stolen underwear worth it? Also, were they striped? |
StormString88Nov 9, 2018 5:52 PM
| America has 300+ million people in it. Bad singular events happen more often, and get reported on. its as simple as that. If we were china, we'd be hearing about how people keep entering preschools and stabbing dozens of kindergartners to death. On the whole, mass shootings and rifles are not a significant contributor to gun crime in the US. It is merely the most reported on, because of its shocking nature. By and large, most gun crime in the US occurs with handguns, in large cities, wielded by a particular demographic. Just as a thought experiment, if said demographic were removed, US gun crime would be comparable to many European countries. If you want to address gun crime, it has to actually be where and how crime is mostly occurring. Not these huge media spectacles, which seemingly contribute to fueling more incidents. Firearm ownership is a cornerstone of the American political system, and shall not be infringed. The Federalist papers make it very clear that it was intended for the American populace to have access to firearms. Not only that but, but militarily effective firearms. |
| way to use a tradegy to push an agenda eveyr fugging time. |
| Guns don't kill people, bullets do. Ban bullets. |
With all these shooting is still surprising that the US isn't considered a war zone. |
| 한 번만 살지만 제대로 하면 한 번이면 충분해요 |
| i love how people imiedtately see gun control as a gun ban. having regulations to keeping crazy people form shooting others isn't a gun ban its called using common sense. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| Thread locked. Please see: Current Events Rule 3: Do not bump threads more than two weeks old. |
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