Japan's Weekly Manga Rankings for Jul 13 - 19

new Kingdom volumes sold 300kish before the boost it mostly affected the backlog more

all you said was One Piece selling less, One Piece selling less without counting conditional reasons for that.
Do you even read bigivelfhq explanation?
You're quiet a joke for someone who has "Intelligence Club"...

Please stop, this isn't even funny anymore.
The trolling has been ruined by going on for too long.

It's the boost it got, just like kingdom is having a boost now, but will drop like a rock next year unless it gets another one.

Or course it's still good in the grand scheme of things, One Piece still sells more than most series put together. But logically you should look at it relative to One Piece's sales, since it is asinine to compare One Piece to other series in terms of sales.

One Piece is selling over 50% less copies in the space two years. That is a huge drop and it's selling nowhere near as well as it used to. Unless of course you can prove that losing over half of your sales is a good thing, economically speaking.

If you can't see that- my argument/point for what it is- then you don't understand simple English and grammar.

Yes, sales are lower than they were, but we both seem to acknowledge that sales are still good. Perhaps not amazing, as they were in the past, but still good. I tried using different adjectives to help you understand that even if something isn't on par, it doesn't mean that said something is catastrophic. I'm not going to rephrase myself again. If you don't understand me now, I don't care enough to try again. Might as well start copy pasting myself.

a 50% reduction in sales is a pretty huge loss

if you can't see that then you don't understand simple economics and mathematics

Right. It is not doing AS well as it used to. And as your wording implies, it's still doing WELL, just not AS WELL.



Even you admit with your wording that it's selling well. Though not AS well, it's still selling WELL. Thank you. Thank you. I tip my hat to you and bid you ado!

what don't you understand?

Manga exist primarily to make money
The more they sell, the more money they make.
One Piece is selling is less than it did two years ago.
Therefore, it is not doing as well as it used to.

You kinda ended yourself with your last statement. "It is doing nowhere near AS WELL as it used to"

Who here argued that One Piece was doing BETTER than it did before? Did I say that? Did I say that One Piece was doing the best it ever has? No. No I didn't. So your response to me was bullshit. It's called learning to pick apart the argument. I wasn't arguing that One Piece was doing BETTER than before. All I said was that One Piece is doing WELL. WELL. Well. Saying that it's not doing AS WELL still means that the series is doing WELL.

If you tell someone that a show isn't doing as badly as it did in the past, it still means that you're telling someone that the show is doing badly.... just not AS BADLY as it did before.

If you tell someone that they aren't as tall as they used to be, it generally means that the person is still tall, just not AS TALL as they used to be. So thank you for agreeing with me and arguing against a point I didn't even make! Bravo! Bravo! Shall I assault you with a gracious round of applause? Standing ovation! Genius I tell you! Genius!


--
Also, when you say that my claim is as invalid as theirs? Not really. Logic doesn't need proof, cause it's logic. Well, no that's wrong. Hmm... How do I go about explaining this... What I wrote was more... advice than anything else. You don't need to supply evidence for advice unless someone asks for a better explanation in order to understand. It's not in anyway hypocritical because it's a completely different scenario.

I can be like: I think that it would be best of you to major in computer science cause you seem like the type that would be interested in coding games, apps, etc. and working on a computer most of the time. They also make good money! So you should give it a go!
The person can then respond with: Well, what makes you think those traits would make me a good fit? And how do you know how much money they make?
That's when I'd supply some info. Maybe a few articles about the experience of past computer science majors/workers and their traits/how they made their decision, etc.
With advice, you don't need to supply evidence straight off the bat. The person can respond to the original comment by being like: Oh! That sounds like a good fit! Lemmie search this up! And that be that. Or they can respond with: Hmm... I don't think so... I'm thinking maybe getting out of the house would be a better fit? And I don't really like spending hours on staring at a block of text...
This would result in me maybe recommending a different route, supplying evidence, or asking further of their opinion.

Now, the advice I gave was about people that weren't giving advice, but instead were asking for factual confirmations etc.

If someone says that One Piece is selling like shit, and someone responds with proof that it's the best selling series of the month, that person can shoot it down and say that the evidence doesn't mean that the series isn't selling like shit. This guy doesn't need to prove himself, cause he only has to shove any evidence down via their own opinion. Meaning that the person on the opposite side will always lose unless they can somehow convince said person which is rare cause trolling/haters.

See, one was advice, the other was a 'prove me my opinion is wrong even though opinions obv can't be wrong! Mwahahahaha'

So, I'm not wrong. And you agreed that One Piece is selling well. Thank you. Maybe a standing ovation is in order indeed!

--
But anyway. Anyone trying to prove that One Piece is selling well/sells to adults should give up (see! advice!). It's all semantics. Relativity. The numbers are great but because they are lower then the past- no matter for what reason- anyone can easily say that the popularity etc. is waning. We all know the truth, the reasons, it all makes sense to us because we understand how the world works. Sadly, some people want to use relativity to undermine the feats of the series. I hate Attack on Titan, loath it, despise it, but even I can say that it's done really well, was popular, etc., even though it didn't touch One Piece in sales per volume. It's called seeing what one wants to see. One Piece can sell 30million volumes next year and still have people say that the popularity is declining because it still hadn't sold as much as it did in 2011. So, to continue with this train of advice: Just stop. You guys made your point. You can't win against someone that doesn't want to use their eyes for what theyre meant for.... as in: SEEING WHAT IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM. But then again, loopholes justify everything. And loopholes works for 'em well enough. Teehee.

For someone who has a group called The Intelligence Club, you're anything but if you're having trouble comprehending the information bigivelfhq is giving you.

That's not that bad for Bleach. I can see it easily hit the 500k now.

Hell yeah!
Glad to see JoJo, Magi, and Kingdom doing well. They're all great series that deserve more popularity (at least here in the West).

Kingdom has been on fire recently, and that's great!

lol

It doesn't change anything. A series does well through selling more copies. One Piece is selling less copies than it used to. Regardless of extenuating circumstances, One Piece is selling less than it did two years ago. That is an objective fact. I really don't know how you can argue this fact. Yes, there are reasons for this. That doesn't change the fact that One Piece's sales dropped by over 50% in two years. It was selling a lot better in 2012, therefore it was doing better. It is selling less volumes this year, therefore it is doing worse.

Also, if everyone in Japan was reading One Piece it would have around 130,0000 sales per volume, so you are wrong.

It changes a lot, because you implicitly said that One Piece wasn't doing well when you responded to DarkAngelz "One Piece is doing well. One Piece is selling well...".
The fact that the values you're using for your argument are due to a temporary phenomena that happens every time a significant number of new readers are catching up, means that you're wrong and One Piece isn't in anyway doing "nowhere near as well as it used to".
This "as well as" that you're talk is measured by people reading the manga and buying new volumes, not people catching up with the backlog. Because if it was by people catching up, in the most radical case you would get:
A series with 100 volumes that in one year gets every people in Japan, 127 Million, buying the entire series from the beginning and selling 12.7 Billion copies. And in the next year that series releases 5 volumes while keeping the same readership of 127 Million, but only sells 635 Million copies, 5% of what it did the previous year.
In conclusion, for you the series is doing horrible and nowhere near what it did last year, when in fact it kept everybody in the country reading every of its new volumes. You're basically saying that the series needs to grab another Japan, to do as well as in the previous year, when "as well as" here means is keeping a similar number of buyers/followers/fanbase.

The LE edition is included in the end of the year and half year numbers! So no, SNK never reached 2 Million copies, not by Oricon reported numbers.
If don't look jut in Oricon reported numbers then certainly it surpasses 2 Million, that can be easily seen by the print of 2,75 Million copies by volume, but we don't have those sales numbers so makes no sense to talk about them.

Note that you only talked of the time during the Anime. In that period of time is possible that it had a faster increase as I said in my previous post. Though if you count before that, the beginning of the series, One Piece was faster.
Here the story of One Piece and Attack on Titan overall print numbers:
Note: The increases are from the last report. The years are rounded for Attack on Titan.

One Piece
1st volume release -> 300k(0.30M per volume)
1 year later -> 6 volumes, 6 Million copies(1.00M per volume, 0.70M increase)
2 years later -> 11 volumes, 17 Million copies(1.55M per volume, 0.55M increase), Anime Started!!
3 years later -> 16 volumes, 37 Million copies(2.31M per volume, 0.76M increase)
4 years later -> 21 volumes, 54 Million copies(2.57M per volume, 0.26M increase)
5 years later -> 26 volumes, 73 Million copies(2.81M per volume, 0.24M increase)
6 years later -> 31 volumes, 90 Million copies(2.90M per volume, 0.09M increase)
Source: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1337321


Attack on Titan
1st volume release -> 40k(0.04M per volume)
1 year later -> 2 volumes, 1M(0.50M per volume, 0.46M increase)
2 years later -> 6 volumes, 5M(0,83M per volume, 0.33M increase) NOTE: No print data so just an estimation done with Oricon reported sales
3 years later -> 9 volumes, 10M(1.11M per volume, 0.28M increase), Anime started!!
4 years later -> 12 volumes, 31M(2.58M per volume, 1.47M increase)
4.5 years lat.-> 14 volumes, 40M(2.86M per volume, 0,28M increase but average of 0.56M per year)
5.5 years lat.-> 15 volumes, 44M(2.93M per volume, 0.07M increase but average of 0.14 per year)
Source:
- http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-12-06/attack-on-titan-prints-28-million-as-latest-book-gets-2.2-million-printing
- http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-03-10/attack-on-titan-manga-has-31-million-in-circulation
- http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2014/07/29-1/attack-on-titan-manga-gets-40-million-total-print-run-in-japan

One Piece not only began with a bigger 1st volume print, but in its first year also increased the overall print per volume more than Attack on titan. Reaching 1 Million copies per volume, while Attack on Titan did half as much.
Unfortunately there is no official data about Attack on Titan print numbers in its 2nd year, but if we go for the number of copies sold reported by Oricon we can estimate around 4 Million more copies in print(rounded from 3,766,194 copies sold). Accepting this estimate, One Piece still increase more than Attack on titan. Basically if we only count the official data Attack on Titan in 2 years increased 0.6M copies per volume in overall, while One Piece did 0.55M in only 1 year.
As can be seen One Piece anime gave a really good boost to the manga. Comparing it with Attack on Titan anime boost, One Piece anime boost was around half as big.
By the end of 5 years of the franchises(Attack on Titan officially 4.5 years) they got basically the same amount of copies per volume in print, with attack on Titan with just 50k more.

In the source for One Piece data we can see that for its 6 year after the first volume print, it still increased 0.09M more. It was in that year that One Piece broke Slam Dunk 2.50M Record of volume with biggest 1st print, with a volume with 2.63M first print.



About the TOC you have Bakuman and the word of Editors about the Bakuman information(They said it was correct, but the interaction between some authors and editors is exaggerated to make it more exciting). Also the common sense on how companies work(the stable ones), the practical experience of seeing the relation between the TOC positions and cancelled series, the relation between TOC positions and volume sales, etc.
Unless you believe that the Editor in Chief is clairvoyant or that readers are that much influenced by the TOC(instead by the content of the story), there is no other way, then the TOC being made with enormous considerations in readers votes.

People also misinterpreted what Oda said about the TOC, and some just read bad translations. He basically said that the TOC isn't the pure readers votes, but is a list that the Chief Editor creates to give the best experience to the readres, Oda also adds that possible the chief editor takes in consideration the popularity votes(Note how Oda doesn't really know exactly how the Chief Editor does the list, just the rationale behind it).
One bad translation said something about the Chief Editor choosing by his mood.
So is known that the TOC isn't the pure readers vote(that is only shown to the Authors) and that the Chief Editor, the CEO of Weekly Shonen Jump, is the one doing the TOC and that he takes various factors to increase that magazine issue reading experience.

what? Nothing you say changes the fact that One Piece isn't selling as much as it used to.I don't really see why you're arguing when I am objectively right.
Just because there are less new readers and Oda was ill doesn't change the fact that One Piece isn't selling as well as it used to, which was my original statement.

You know that last year One Piece sold 1 less volume than usual because Oda was most of the time sick, right?

About the 23M vs the 11M, this is something that a lot of people have been explained but it seems there is always a lot of other people that don't understand.

The new volumes are selling almost the same as when One Piece was in Hype mode. So its sells didn't decreased as much as you're sayingl.
So why are the overall sales shorter, you ask? Simple, those are the count of the new volumes of the year plus the old volumes. So it adds the catching up factor. As the name says this sales will only be there as long as the readers are catching up, after that they disappear.

Let's see:
2009 - > Estimate of 136,021 new readers catching up
2010 -> Estimate of 357,124 new readers catching up
2011 -> Estimate of 417,120 new readers catching up(Peak of Hype)
2012 -> Estimate of 177,681 new readers catching up
2013 -> Estimate of 89,440 new readers catching up
2014 -> Estimate of 38,626 new readers catching up

As you can see what decreased significantly is the number of people that are still catching up to the story.

Now let's see how much of those new readers that caught up are still reading.
Total number of new readers since 2009 to 2014: 1,216,012.
Sales Difference between 2009 and 2014 sales(best volumes): 3,010,801 - 2,057,528 = 953,273
So 1,216,012 tried the manga and 953,273 stayed until today(the other probably will return later), so there was a loss of 262,739 potential new readers that didn't continued(yet). This is 7.8% less than the most hyped moment of the series during that time.
Also remember that 2014 was a bad year for the author health and it had effects on the volumes sales. In jut the half year of 2015 we already have a volume that sold more than the best of 2014. So, basically the number is even less than 7.8%

About Nanatsu no Taizai beating One Piece in the half year. That doesn't mean much.
If I'm correct Nanatsu no Taizai will have 6 new volumes by the end of the year, but by the half point already had 5 volumes released, One Piece will release 4 and by that time it had only 2 new volumes.
After just 2 week of the Half Year report One Piece surpassed Nanatsu no Taizai, and right now One Piece has a lead of at least 1,778,284 copies.

Remember, when a series gets a lot of new readers, in the overall sales will not just increase their numbers, but (new readers * number of volumes to catch up), this means that a series like One Piece with 78 volumes will get 78 times the sales of their new readers, so there is a huge inflation. After that is done the number will decrease until reaching the more insightful result of (current reader * new volumes).

Unlike One Piece, SNK has a limited edition and said LE always sells 200-300k before leaving the list, so no SNK has been selling more than 2 million per volume since 2013.

I wasn't saying that One Piece didn't have a rapid rise in popularity, just thst SNK was faster.

As for the rest of your post, I can't take your word for it, I've read about the functionning of TOC in several sites and nowhere is it said that the votes play a significantly bigger role than the ditor in chief, got a source on that?

...I didn't say adults weren't the biggest demographic. I was just criticising the logic of "if they don't provide evidence, then I don't have too. If you actually read my post I didn't say that adults aren't the biggest readers.

Because SnK came close to beating One Piece in sales and Nanatsu actually did beat it for the first half of 2015. That hasn't happened before IIRC.

and

2012 - One Piece sold 23,464,866
2014 - One Piece sold 11,885,957

a reduction of over 50% in terms of sales in just two years. If you don't think One Piece isn't doing as well as it did, I really don't know what to say.

2012 - http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=526586
2014 - http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1316739