Would you consider visual novels as games?

Jul 31, 2021 10:34 AM

Offline

Dec 2017

27745

The misconception of it mainly comes from the minimal activity and linear nature of many of them especially romance based ones as well.

Yet there are games with quite a bit of interactivity where its more than just choose dialogue or location to visit your waifu.

Lets use something more lesser known for example like Trace Memory, aside from the read the text you have to solve puzzles with the ds console system mechanics like one such puzzle requiring you to close said console on and off to get to the solution.

And even stealth elements can be seen in VNS as well like Hotel Dusk Room 215 for example too.

These games are shorter than a common visual novel yes, but unlike a romance one or a sciadv one these things are self contained complete stories with a small intimate cast that are very likable and also not really generic carbon copy types in many other romance vns with more or less the same stories.

So yeah? do you see them as games or not really?

Jul 31, 2021 10:49 AM

deg

lagom

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Jan 2009

107421

yes since a lot of games are interactive stories then it is considered one too since the user chooses or interact with the characters choices about what story path to take

Jul 31, 2021 11:30 AM

NekoZamurai

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Apr 2018

1844

I don't think my opinion matters since I've only played va-11-hall-a, No, I don't think as games because the graphic sucks.

Jul 31, 2021 12:05 PM

Disapeared_Ghost

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Dec 2017

27745

Juralumin said:
I don't think my opinion matters since I've only played va-11-hall-a, No, I don't think as games because the graphic sucks.

Thats only just one game though so yeah play more of them.

Jul 31, 2021 3:52 PM

FacelessVixen

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Aug 2009

11167

As much as I want to say "no" when looking at the Winged Cloud releases (and other VN's within that vein), LucasArts, Sierra and Telltale would have counter-arguments.

So, VN's are the hamburgers of video games.

Jul 31, 2021 3:56 PM

rohan121

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Sep 2018

14390

Visual novels that require inputs are games, and that is ok. Some people misuse playable movie as a criticism when it is a genre that can be good or bad.

Jul 31, 2021 4:28 PM

Nette

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May 2013

8271

If shitty walking simulators are considered games then why not VNs?

♡ Harder Daddy ♡

Jul 31, 2021 5:23 PM

fleurbleue

( ｡◕‿‿◕｡)っ❤︎

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Jul 2010

5344

Some are to a certain extent (Zero Escape), some are clearly not (Higurashi).

Jul 31, 2021 8:30 PM

Eziprez

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Aug 2020

3006

Never played one but they are interactive so yes

Aug 1, 2021 6:00 AM

#10

Theo1899

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Jun 2016

13860

Sometimes no, other times yes. It depends on the VN and how much interaction there is.

FacelessVixen said:
LucasArts, Sierra and Telltale

I don't consider games from those companies to be visual novels but the boundary between visual novel and adventure game seems to be quite subjective. I've seen a lot of heated arguments over the years over the classification of stuff like danganronpa, the secret of monkey island or the walking dead for example.

MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST

Aug 1, 2021 8:17 AM

#11

Juggernauttt

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Feb 2015

817

I see them more as entertainment where you can kick back and just run it. I only ever played Ace Attorney but it was a nice game.

Aug 1, 2021 8:29 AM

#12

thekillingjar

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Sep 2020

1607

i consider them games since they're interactive and you can "play them", i've only played ace attorney and danganronpa (ultra despair girls and trigger happy havoc) though so i'm just judging it based off my experience playing those.

Aug 1, 2021 3:18 PM

#13

removed-user

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Jul 2018

561867

why do people care so much whether vns are games or not anyway

Aug 1, 2021 10:17 PM

#14

traed

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Mar 2008

53417

xx-ludis said:
why do people care so much whether vns are games or not anyway

So they know if they should say they are reading a VN or playing a VN

It's a mild annoyance of uncertainty

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Aug 2, 2021 3:43 AM

#15

-YaoiBoy-

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May 2021

1445

Anything with interactivity in it is a game, even if you just make choices and click through dialogue :) I know people who don't really agree with that, of course.

Aug 2, 2021 6:02 PM

#16

-Lofn-

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Oct 2015

4501

Play;

Rance series
Venus Blood series
Eushully games
Silver Case
Eiyuu*Senki
Tokimeki series
Danganronpa/Ace Attorney
etc

But for the static VNs, we consider walking simulators as games, don't see why not. Maybe some will just consider them audio picture books with slight interactivity, like interactive text stories.

𝔚𝔞𝔫𝔫𝔞 𝔱𝔬𝔲𝔠𝔥 𝔶𝔬𝔲,
𝔚𝔞𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔫' 𝔶𝔬𝔲 𝔴𝔦𝔱𝔥 𝔞𝔩𝔩 𝔪𝔶 𝔪𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱
______________________

Aug 2, 2021 7:16 PM

#17

Menternor

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Apr 2020

778

I don't really consider them games, but then again I also don't consider walking simulators as games.

Aug 2, 2021 7:24 PM

#18

Cneq

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Jan 2017

3851

Some, yes, but for most I'd say they're just books, but better lol as they were intended to be, the highlights of a book such as inner-monologue and the ability for longer-run times while also maintaining the pros of films/games such as sound effects, voice acting and more.

Some I'd say are much more in the game category, Baldr Sky for example was very much a top tier visual novel but had enough gameplay that it felt like a game, albeit a indie game but a fun one.

Aug 2, 2021 11:17 PM

#19

BerryWhite21

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Aug 2021

Honestly, I'd consider them a game for sure. I know that many people see visual novels as nothing more than just a book with a few cool images, but I don't see them that way. If you have any control over the narrative, even if it means controlling its pace, that makes it a game in my book.

Here's an interesting comparison. If visual novels aren't games because you can only move in a linear direction of a story, does that mean that slot games aren't games? I've had a blast playing all three of these games the other day https://www.nodepositdaily.com/features/anime-inspired-slots-free-spins/ and all I did was sit here and press a single button. Did I play a game or did I 'watch' a narrative develop in a linear fashion?

While my example might be a bit over the top, you get the point. I remember back in the day when we used to play text-based "games", they were nothing more than interactive novels because you'd get to the same conclusion no matter the perceived choices. My vote goes for visual novels being games.

Jun 14, 2022 11:08 AM

#20

Sylicone

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Nov 2019

1057

If we're talking about games like Danganronpa and Virtue's Last Reward, then sure, I'd consider them as games. Any visual novels that requires cursors to investigate, or have dungeon crawling elements, or even the likes of games oike BlazBlue, which has fighting game elements, then sure, I'd consider them games. But as for visual novels that don't have such elements. Like visual novels that are only about making choices... I kinda have a hard time thinking of them as games. Like I'd say for those types of visual novels, that I read them, not necessarily play them. So I kind of see them more as books, rather than games. Granted they have character designs and background designs, plus great music, they still feel more like books, rather than games, at least in my opinion. Though the only visual novel that I've played that are only about choices is Yumeutsutsu Re:Master, so I can only account for that one visual novel only. Maybe if I play more visual novels of the like, my opinion might change? Hm. Who knows. Though I'm wondering about what if there's a visual novel in which every character constantly moves in some sense. Like I remember that one time in Moe Chronicle that Lilia elbowed Io from the side, and it made me wonder about what if there were so many character poses, that characters can hug each other, or poke each other, or tap each other on the shoulder, or hold hands together. Would I consider that type of visual novel a game? Hm... probably not. I would think of it more as an anime, rather than a game. That would be quite the fun visual novel though. Perhaps there are already visual novels like that. Nice. Anyways, I thought about someone saying that choices are game-like, and I'd agree, but when I think of a book which gives you choices, I wouldn't think of that book as a game, but an adventure. Hm. But what about choices in the style of VA-11 HALL-A? In which you serve any drinks you choose to the customer. Would I consider that a game? ... My brain is being fried. I don't know what to think. Like yes, the interactivity is there, but I wouldn't consider interactivity as the definining criteria that makes a game. But being able to serve different drinks for a customer makes it a game doesn't it? Fuck... I don't know. What would be the difference between a movie which you can make choices in, and VA-11 HALL-A? The dimension? Would I consider a movie which you can make choices in, a game? No. Would I consider VA-11 HALL-A, which you can make drink choices in, a game? Maybe? Maybe not? ;( . I don't know. I'll just stop thinking about it and browse other topics.

Neat.
Also neat.
And another.
+ another one.
And another one.
Then have one more.
Actually, have two more.

Jun 14, 2022 6:05 PM

#21

Suntanned_Duck2

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Mar 2017

1387

Just because text adventures don't have graphics, you input commands, it's gameplay.

FMV games range from slideshows (Plumbers Don't Wear Ties), to waiting for the right time to use a button press and it triggering correctly (a FMV rail shooters like Mad Dog Macree (some others but I forget the names) or an FMV game with 'make sure the character jumps so they aren't falling off the conveyor belt' like in Critical Path and it's really bad), to actually playing the game it's just it has real footage alongside it (Night Trap switching cameras as the footage plays through, it's full on and challenging) not a quiz at the end of each scene like some do such as TLC (a pretty good ones with it's out there scenes) or Plumbers Don't Wear Ties (a really bad FMV game). A puzzle game like Bad Milk is well, odd but ties together along with other FMV use back in the day.

Facade is a game that if you don't interact with things correctly can lose immediately.

Western games focus on graphics adventure games or point n click (or find the hidden item), still inputs, graphics and reading/waiting for dialogue above a characters head/voice acting playing (say Broken Sword for PS1 for example).

Visual Novels are Japan's graphic adventure games. Some have more choices than others (some have different ways to go about choices, Oreimo has it's confrontation sort of moments, Steins;gate the texts/emails in your phone and you responding to them with the choices available in the right order, Raging Loop having locked off choices after you meet the correct order of bad endings as far as I've come across, Date A Live's VNs have a map and 1-2 times to date the character and 3 choices to choose from, pick the right order and your good, it a conversation puzzle just like platforming is an environment puzzle), some have more gameplay than others no doubt like detective mode in Danganronpa or Phoenix Wright and some games use visual novel moments with stills or the characters moving in place with Live 2D or something like Neptunia for talking/cutscenes (JRPGs, Beat Em Ups, Shoot Em Ups, whichever) as a lower budget option then.

They can still get the personality out just as much as funny text in a game without voice acting in the N64 era.

Visual Novels were what set JRPGs as the menu heavy that they were and somewhat still are depending on which ones you play of course as many have gone different directions western influence or just because it suited the game to do so.

So as low budget cutscenes they make sense, as a game they are whether we like it or not. Same as walking sims are just voice and text while we walk. We hate walking in big budget games as they don't need it and restrict player movement too but a walking sim being just that, walking to explore a town or in a particular linear talking over it segment it is a game because it has buttons on the controller/keyboard and mouse used. You can still interact with objects to examine/find out more just the same as any other game, whether the objects are in Duke Nukem or Portal/Half Life, in a VR game or something else.

I mean selecting a level on a town map (with 1-2 afternoon/evening choices to see scenes) isn't much but selecting which girl I want to date in Date A Live's VNs is more than sure just a choice with the character's name on it that other games do (ChronoClock I love but it is just the choices for each character's route and that's it no other choices, while more in depth visual novels feel like the choices matter in a Dungeons and Dragons game just without the RPG elements and being just the choices of who to follow the story of, not who will be part of my army and make our efforts worse in Dragon Age Inquisition or something if I make the wrong decision). But it's still menu option selecting at the end of the day yes.

Then again educational games are still games whether you pick a menu option, input a number/letter, find the character among others Where's Wally style. Even if your just interacting with an object with no purpose than to play an animation it's still gameplay even if not forwarding the story/game to the next scene.

I hate when games want to automate/only play an animation and give me less control for how to jump a gap, swing on a rope/grapple hook in modern games. Is it less a game because I can't get the momentum I want from swinging on a vine? They are taking control away from me and forcing it at that point on me the player. To me no it isn't but it is still annoying to me as a platformer fan to be told by the game I can't do that and have limited level design or to have a scripted event for example that's too strict compared to other scripted moments that are more flexible or games that are just flexible and not scripted, so the player created their own story with it.

We don't usually count DVD movies with using the remote for interactive minigames as bonus features or FMV games when CDs were a thing and many of them being trash but FMV games like Night Trap have more gameplay to switch cameras before Five Nights At Freedy's and was a good use of 'gameplay' even if hard in the Sega CD original but the remasters with footage playing and easier to play now shows how it can work.

Plumbers Don't Wear Ties is barely even moving footage at times just a sideshow besides the bad story and something that has no purpose of meaning compared to a B movie like Night Trap that is more interesting even if 'watching' it compared to 'playing' it to trap the bad guys is a distraction let alone piecing the story together because your trapping enemies and switching cameras. Some FMV games have choices/questionnaires others you have to interact with things. Same situation different comparison of FMV games vs. visual novels.

So Plumbers Don't Wear Ties I could as not a game really. Kinetic Novels that don't have choices are just like an audio book with visuals so I wouldn't count that a game either because inputs of forwarding text or choices aren't there.

Unlike a visual novel with choices that stop you from progressing until you pick the choices besides the yes automatic option for text boxes they have or a minigame (detective item interactions or searching) or something (which if I miss dialogue in a western game tough luck have to find the cutscene online if the game doesn't have a cutscene viewer or replay the game to see it again, in a visual novel or games with text logs I can go back and read them which I prefer no matter how pointless the dialogue I need to read it just encase it is important as you never know sometimes).

Some western games like Mushroom Men Spore Wars for Wii had a textlog for that play session (can't think of another example because it's so rare) but only Japanese games otherwise do it because they do it for visual novels already. Which those also do it by play session not save.

Suntanned_Duck2Jun 23, 2022 8:47 PM

Jun 17, 2022 10:48 PM

#22

-Hermit-

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Mar 2021

815

I always call them games, but I have no issue with those that see them differently.

Jun 17, 2022 11:11 PM

#23

epicene

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Jun 2022

Yes, because I know the history of gaming and as stated previously these classify objectively as games and are not outside the norm.

Jun 19, 2022 2:11 AM

#24

NEMESIS95

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Oct 2020

1285

Yes. Havent played many, but i still consoder them games

Jun 19, 2022 5:58 AM

#25

Edocchi

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Jun 2016

1932

I call them games all the time but I never call them video games.

Jun 22, 2022 8:00 AM

#26

raiyzou

Offline

Oct 2013

They originated from adventure games & are made and released on the same platforms as games so in that sense I'd say they are.

I don't think it's really that deep. As someone who loves visual novels alot I can see why someone wouldn't consider ""pure VNs"" that are literally just reading with no interactivity beyond maybe some choices as games.
Though I do think that once you start crossing over into other genres and combining a VN format with say: simulation, rpg, puzzle etc. then those should definitely count as games.
I think I say 'reading'/'playing' interchangeably.

The only thing that bugs me about the whole argument is when people use it as a means to bring down all VNs for being bad because "they're not real games" when it's more a case of that persons subjective taste/preferences in media.

Jun 22, 2022 4:16 PM

#27

ezikialrage

Offline

Aug 2009

5517

Visual novels are not games. They are basically video books. They are a step up of those read along books for little kids. A read along book is a book that comes with a audio file in some sort of physical media like a vinyl record, cassette tape, CD or maybe in some audio device on the book itself depending on the decade you grew up in. The audio file plays out the story and the child reads along.

Jun 22, 2022 4:26 PM

#28

Kazu-chan-san

Offline

Jun 2021

828

Visual Novels are the exquitosmatic representati9n of illuminatti and freemason brainwashing of evil globalists and narco-marxists to lead you into a retirade of morarility. Long story short: Don't play porn games but man Shitains;Hate is a 10/10.

ねえ、それはあなたです！あなたがカズマやトーマが好きなエッチ/ハーレムファンなら、女性を「平等に」扱うので、女性を殴る/軽蔑する2人のマッチョな男性か、Free！/YOIが好きだがフェアリーテイルの悪を話すTumblrファンガールです/ DxDとSAOは、ファンサービスがあり、アニメやマンガでBL / LGBTQ +ファンサービスが好きで、自分を「フェミニスト」と呼んでいるためです。自分は偽善者に過ぎず、価値観を再考し、これらの二重で停止する必要があることを知ってください。標準。真剣に、それを止めてください😁。 #MenHaveTheRightToWorkInShortsInHotDays #MALMemberSince2010 #Kirisuna Nico Nico no Hyouryuuken!

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMsHeAUgW0lgREhidvVfUeeXb2M5WTADZ (Music about God).

*Bill Clinton's voice* I did not have sexual relationships with that anime girl. *Hilary Clinton's voice* waifu's rights are human rights, and human rights are waifu's rights. *God Emperor Donald Trump's voice* Yaoi anime will soon be illegal. All fujos will be arrested.

Jun 22, 2022 8:13 PM

#29

Kurt_Irving

Offline

Jul 2013

2489

I only "visual novel" that I completed was Sakura Wars V.

By the way, I'm not really into Type Moon VNs, Steins;Gate, Phoenix Right or that dweeb stuff Muv Luv, whatever it's called. I don't consider them to be complete video games, partially because they don't seem strategic enough for me.

Jun 23, 2022 6:45 AM

#30

realdeddosto

Offline

Jan 2020

2956

If I have to physically do something to make the script move (press a button), and I can affect the outcome of the plot, and even see multiple endings, then yeah I don't see why it wouldn't be considered a game. It's not like I just hit play and watch the screen. Though, I guess VNs do have the option to auto scroll texts. Either way, I have more than a few on my trophy list, and I consider them games. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"...Is your mother worried? Would you like us to assign someone to worry your mother?"

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Would you consider visual novels as games?

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