QPR said: Would you rather listen to a classic cd by the beatles or stones or would you rather listen tot the localised Romanian or Belgian version? Lol I even imagined the song titles: Te rog te rog eu Vreau sa-ti tin mana Ieri Maine nu stie niciodata Ceva Trupa sgt. Piper al clubului inimilor singure Dr robert @dante012 in the last episode of shinsekai yori, the dub destroys squealer's character and motivation with a single sentence. The final result is that the dub watcher misses the most impprtant thing in the anime. So yeah, I agree that dubs are missing info. Even in Mila Superstar, they censored Hayakawa's behaviour towards Ayuhara, if you watch it sub you'll understand how much of a bitch she was at the beginning. |
CatalanoNov 29, 2019 3:11 AM
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Breadwinnerr said: Every anime I’ve watched is dubbed - every anime on my list. Watching anime in sub sounds goofy to me & I’m way too lazy to read. The one thing that really sucks about being a dub anime watcher is that you’re usually Seasons or even years behind new anime. And there’s some really good anime that don’t have a dub that I miss out on - like the Monogatari series You probably should start watching anime on subs then, you can't keep watching dubs forever because like you said you are missing out on shows.In my opinion, you can never watch dubbed anime and always watch subbed, and nothing would change, but when you only choose to watch dubbed anime it s going to be inevitable the fact that you will only have a limited library of anime at your disposal. |
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Breadwinnerr said: Every anime I’ve watched is dubbed - every anime on my list. Watching anime in sub sounds goofy to me & I’m way too lazy to read. The one thing that really sucks about being a dub anime watcher is that you’re usually Seasons or even years behind new anime. And there’s some really good anime that don’t have a dub that I miss out on - like the Monogatari series I've watched most dubbed too, I generally don't like high pitched/whiny female voices (well it happens in both but I gotta watch one or the other anyways) I have no issues with reading subtitles since I watch Asian dramas with subs too. I don't really get the big deal about voice acting but some shows I couldn't stand the Japanese VA of Kotetsu (Tiger & Bunny) he sounded old/unattractive, and Inuyasha sounded annoying. Some dubs had unattractive/cringy voices too so I switch to sub. Some scenes feel more emotional or funnier hearing it in a language I understand - like with Attack on Titan ep 1 I felt more sad in that scene when Eren cried for his mom (dub) I don't really care about being updated with new anime unless it actually looks exciting for me, and I don't watch anime that often anyways now. |
sunsetoceanNov 29, 2019 4:33 AM
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BlakexEkalb said: Sadly either elitism isn't dead or they're continuing to beat a dead horse.I’m starting to think people are just falling for these baits. The only people that say this are elitists (who you shouldn’t even take seriously anyway), and elitism has been dead for quite a bit. The whole idea of it is a joke. A couple examples from within the past day, in the other recent thread: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1812996&show=50#msg58733865 "If you watch any anime subbed, you're not watching as intended. You need to learn Japanese or stay a pleb forever. Seriously how do you expect to experience the true art when you are just reading someones translation. You're no better than someone who watches a dub." https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1812996&show=50#msg58735429 "This is not a discussion. If you prefer dubbed you prefer an inferiour, mostly twisted version instead of a refined original (which could also be flawed but in different severity). This is a personal quality standard. Being proud of wathcing dubbed version is objectively a sign of quite meagre standards. Or mental inability to read or something." If they're trying to be funny, I don't think they're doing a very good job of it. edit: oh hey look, more sub elitism a few posts below https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1813121&show=50#msg58735730 "That's true. Only original voices are authentic and it doesn't matter if it's Japanese or American series. Dubbed content = fake content. Dub is always the worst way to consume any media." |
GlennMagusHarveyNov 30, 2019 3:10 AM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Daniel_Naumov said: The thread host makes a perfectly valid point.Thread host makes no valid besides "I will still watch it because I prefer it personally". DO NOT start threads when you have no idea what is the point of "FORUM" is. Meanwhile, you bad grammar. Daniel_Naumov said: Originalism is overrated.To anyone else who might interested, a simple reason why to never watch dubbed waste of time/resources: Translation is a hard work, especially when translating something as symbolism and meanings heavy as Japanese art. Most translators fail spectacularly. They inadvertently change meanings, or fail to convey original emphasis, original parallels by changing one word. Just to make it sound natural. Mostly, when you decide to sit down and listen to a dubbed version instead, you are not watching a Japanese series anymore. You are watching an appropriated version for some western audience. You will lose out on original. Your choice. Go read input #52, extensive arguments as to why you should avoid dubs like SAE products. You can be an absolute stickler for the original version but if I don't enjoy it then it doesn't function as it should in the first place. The most important aspect of it is not the Japaneseness, nor the exact Japanese script, but simply the storytelling itself. |
GlennMagusHarveyNov 30, 2019 3:43 AM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Replying to Dante012's post now. I should point out, for the record, that my comments are speaking from my experiences watching English dubs. I see that you mention French dubs in several of your comments; I have not watched any French dubs before, nor do I speak French, so I can't speak for French dubs at all. Dante012 said: Actually, they do, and subs vs. dubs is a matter of preference.Subs are way better than dubs. There could be an argument if the dubbers actually took their work seriously, but that's clearly not the case given the amount of problems that occur frequently. Let's go through all the issues, shall we? Dante012 said: "How their character is supposed to sound" is based on your own ideas of how the characters are supposed to sound. For example, a number of people here really enjoy squeaky cute Japanese anime girl voice, while I don't really like it that much, so you may see a character and think they're "supposed to sound" like that, but I don't. And Japanese voice-acting does in fact tend to use this sort of voice a lot, which I find unnatural compared to speaking more normally.- Wrong casting. God, so many times a young character sounds awfully old, it's just stupid... On the other hand, a seiyuu always sounds how their character is supposed to sound. An irony is that it's more common for dubs these days to try to imitate that squeakiness rather than simply ignore it and speak more naturally. Dante012 said: overacting =/= "giving life and emotions"- Bad acting. Seiyuus are just way better when it comes to giving life and emotions to their characters. The "occidental dubbers" are just way less competent, as well as way less serious. Dante012 said: Not counting fandubs, how many of these are there? And when were they made?- Some dubs are LITTERAL PARODIES, for God's sake. City Hunter, in Japanese it's a serious show ; in dubs it's become a comedy. Hokuto no Ken as well: it's full of puns (at least, in French dub). You may like the parody, but it is still a parody (hence: not the actual show). Dante012 said: And this isn't a fault of the dub, which can be just as uncensored.- Censorship. That one also happens a lot. And I'm not just talking about the nude scenes here. Sometimes, important pieces of the stories are cut out because it's considered too violent. For example, go watch the Shadow Arc from Sonic X. Dante012 said: I highly doubt you "learned how to speak japanese" solely from watching anime, and if you actually did a native Japanese speaker would probably found your speaking odd (assuming you're fluent enough to hold a conversation).- Cultural changes. This is the worst, in my opinion. I learned a lot about the japanese culture thanks to anime. I know a lot of japanese foods because I saw them in anime. I learned how to speak japanese by watching anime. I learned a lot about the overall japanese culture, thanks to anime (especially the importance of hierarchy in that country, with the honorifics and all that ; or the coexistence of very different cultures among the country). All of us have picked up a variety of things about Japanese culture from watching anime, depending more on what we watched rather than whether stuff was subbed or dubbed. Dante012 said: FYI English has honorifics too, just a different set of them. Besides, in most scenes where honorifics are used in Japanese this "importance of hierarchy" is barely even relevant.But in dubs, most of that is lost. Japanese food is changed into occidental stuff. The names are changed. There are no honorifics, so you lose the importance of hierarchy. Dante012 said: the biggest "cultural loss" in Steins;Gate's dub is that Imai Asami doesn't voice Makise Kurisu.4) Stein's Gate, a great example of "cultural loss": Dante012 said: Yes, dubs do lack this aspect. It's not something I really miss though.Japanese people have been notoriously bad at english, so it's always awesome when an anime character talks in english ; that's something we totally lose in English dubs. Dante012 said: It's always possible to nitpick.Seriously, I could go on and on and on and on. Of course, feel free to enjoy dubs, but don't pretend there are no blatant issues with it. But, more fundamentally, are these "issues" a problem of the fact that they're dubbed or rather a fact that they're dubbed in such a way that they broke the storytelling process? It's the latter, not the former, because it's entirely possible to tell a coherent story in any language. |
GlennMagusHarveyNov 30, 2019 3:09 AM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I just watch as many things as possible in original version however the language because - if it's animation - the original dubbers were better casted and directed by the director himself. And if it's not animation then the actors had intentions their dubbers may miss or not intepret well. Subbed > dubbed. |
Daniel_Naumov said: Who's Karen?GlennMagusHarvey said: The thread host makes a perfectly valid point. Meanwhile, you bad grammar. Originalism is overrated. You can be an absolute stickler for the original version but if I don't enjoy it then it doesn't function as it should in the first place. The most important aspect of it is not the Japaneseness, nor the exact Japanese script, but simply the storytelling itself. Oh Karen cut out on this egocentrism already would you. Not everything is for your enjoyment, and not everything is supposed to be enjoyed. Contrast Greek tragedies and stop with this self-entitled, savage consumeric attitude. > not everything is supposed to be enjoyed I thought you cared about the creator's intent? I guess not lol. Or maybe you're nitpicking that I said "enjoy" when I should have been more general in saying "appreciate". |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Look, there are many memes out there about "Subs > Dub", and I myself laugh at them with my friends here and there because WE agree with that opinion, but that doesnt mean we wouldnt respect someone who preffers dubs over subs. So I'm just saying that although there ARE people out there who dont know their place and actually think they are better than people who watch dubbed anime, not everyone is like that, not even everyone you see making jokes on the subject |
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| Not watching anime? Then what is it? Anyway nice thread, as this is a really serious problem and should be taken seriously Some people prefer subs, and some "People" prefer dubs ^^ Which one is better in 95% of cases? We can only speculate! |
| reformed |
| but wacthing dubbed its just not the same, its just worst |
Tiago_KTNov 30, 2019 6:55 AM
| hello. i saw your post about you preferring dubbed anime to subbed. i personally didagree and like to watch the subbed version whenever possible. however, i respect your opinion and understand that dubbed anime has its good sides, as does subbed. i hope you have a good day |
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| Yeah right, but once you go subbed you never go back to dubbed. I remember I watched Steins Gate dubbed but Steins Gate 0 subbed. The dubs were really good but when it comes to much older Anime, it's just bad. Also only a handful of Anime were dubbed back then and still many great Anime lack dubs, so you miss out a lot if you only watch dubbed. Once you start watching currently airing shows, you're likely to switch to subs only, and it happens if sequel of your favorite dubbed anime has either no dubs or they arrive a week or two later. Also I find most dubs either lacking in quality due to inappropriate casting (Americans female voice artists don't know how to voice teenage girls), so the cuteness disappears, or the voice doesn't match the character. In short, some dubs might be on level with original voice, but original is way much superior in most of the cases. |
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| Yeah i feel you on this one, man. Back when i first started becoming very invested in anime back in May, i always thought that the subs vs dubs thing mattered a lot. But eventually i said "screw it" and started watching both subs AND dubs. Personally i think dubs makes the story more easier to follow without having to read anything. Folks who always say people who watch dubbed anime are "trash" really annoy me sometimes. Like bruh, just let people watch whatever makes them feel comfortable. Why does it matter so much? |
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| Dub or sub you are still a filthy weeb and kind of a loser. |
| In most cases it doesn't really matter that much, though the only shows where the dub is a no-no would be something like Yugioh, where the entire soundtrack is different and a lot of content was censored or cut out. Watching that show dubbed is really like not watching it at all. |
Daniel_Naumov said: Next time you try to accuse others of having no value, check to make sure you aren't (1) making angry posts, and (2) merely barking your opinions against others.BlakexEkalb said: Tbh it just seems to be a troll, nothing to get up in arms over. He’s clearly just an unintellectual. You keep saying hurr durr elitists yadda yadda pseudo-intellectuals - where are the arguments, Johnny? You will bring them to the table at least once or you will just keep dismissing what others say? Have you any value as a forum-goer, as a discussion participant? If you want to defend your subscription to inferiority, show some effort. People will keep laughing and pitying otherwise. Daniel_Naumov said: I'm not suffering from dubs. Take your high horse and shove it. Oh, also, (3), if you actually want to be intellectual, try not to insult people in your posts. Particularly when it's amusingly ironic, like insulting someone as "Bubba" while mangling grammar yourself.BlakexEkalb said: There is nothing to argue when someone states that dub is fake content since dub is there to allow multiple types of people to consume a show/movie. Saying it’s “fake content” makes no sense, so yes I don’t see a reason to argue this. There is also no point in talking about if dub is a worst way to consume any media, since that is clearly just an opinion that individual person has and they are entitled to it. Yeah it enables blind people to be able to get in contact with the series. Everyone else is suffering, knowingly or not. Input #52 states several reasons why dubbing is, without using strong words, overall a bad idea. You could, I dun't know, address at least some of them. You have written essays for literature classes come on Bubba you will manage this. Do not bring shame to the gasoline-chugging dubbing crowd. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Daniel_Naumov said: Whether something is worse depends on the purpose. You are an originalist, so for you, dubs are worse. I am not an originalist, so I do not share this perspective.Zneruse said: you did not say anything about subs in your post. thats why i said that the level of authenticity will vary between different anime from different studios or decades. i was just saying that the implication that one option will always be better than the other in every circumstance is sort of ridiculous. It is, but we are talking something conceptually losing to the original. No one is saying "could be" but "will be worse" because the dominating majority of cases is exactly that - undeniably worse. There might be several titles that have artistically survived the process of translation + dubbing, but otherwise the damage done is insurmountable. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I watch a mix of subs and dubs. Which one I choose is based on a number of factors. If the dub has Greg Ayres' annoying ass voice in a major role, then I instantly go to sub. If the anime isn't particularly Japanese focused in terms of culture/humour, then I don't feel I'm losing much in the translation, so I can rest my eyes and focus on the pretty drawings by going dub. If it's just throwaway, watch once, 6/10 light entertainment trash, then dub is fine for me. If I just happen to like the sound of the Japanese voices because they enhance the moe factor, then subs it is. I watch anime for fun, not to impress neckbeards with a superiority complex about their chosen way to consume a form of entertainment. In conclusion, I wish Greg Ayres would retire so he stops ruining otherwise passable dubs. Thank you. |
| Unless the dub is transformative enough that the American version is basically disconnected from the source anime, like Robotech, then it's definitely still watching anime. |
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| I don't speak japanesse like most of occidental population so I have to watch translations of this language. Mistranlations happens in subtitles and dubs. Sometimes subtitles will be a transcript of the dub, and in the case of Manga videos DVD, it will suck because they had a trandency to deviate in unintelligent ways from the original dialogs. As for dubs, the reproaches you can make to them aren't their translations since it is an issue that goes for both subtitles and dubbing. Personnaly, I watch dubs if the voice acting is good, if it isn't, I get to the subtitles, but I have no problems against dubs, there are a lot of voice actors I like to hear. The problem with subtitles is that it will have to compress information, in order to be synchronized with the sound and image, and so that the spectator can follow what happens in the picture. A dub avoids this problem. I'm okay with deviating from the original dialogs if it means to localize it, to obtain the same effect intented to the original audience. Since I'm not Japanese but French, I will be unable to get what a Japanese audience could get, which is why the concept of "localization" exist. Transcribing everything litterary is stupid since every culture has it's specifics and therefore will destroy the intented effects. When a movie use a country-specific cultural reference, it will be easily lost for a foreign spectator unless localized. I know people will argue that at this point it would be better let the original reference and add notes, but the intented effect was to have the audience guess the reference, not shoving it into their face, by doing that you destroy the intented effect. Besides, you also get to pollute your screen by adding your notes on it, for a example here's a caricature : it's like translating a sentence by "All acording to keikaku". It won't seem as ridiculous, but I think it's the same thing. The only way to understand the original intents is to become japanese or to get it localized. As a consequence, the only way to completely appreciate anime is not to watch anime in unsubbed japanese or learning the language but to find some way to turn into a japanese. Scientifics doesn't have time to create a Japanese Transformation Machine (JTM) as it is too time-consuming for an issue they (obviously wrongly) consider umimportant. So there's only compromise. Either you learn Japanese culture, which will take you 5 or 10 full years or something like that, either translators will find a way to localize the intented effect the directors wanted for foreign audiences, if they're good. Of course you will loose the "cultural specificities" but I can't really understand them anyway. I mostly watch anime for their fictionnal stories and to enlarge my culture, the Japanese culture stuff is a bonus. (Damn, some of it consist in reacting to trolls isn't it?) |
ShadrobbitNov 30, 2019 9:36 AM
| *steals @GlennMagusHarvey disclaimer* "Replying to @Dante012's post now. I should point out, for the record, that my comments are speaking from my experiences watching English dubs. I see that you mention French dubs in several of your comments; I have not watched any French dubs before, nor do I speak French, so I can't speak for French dubs at all." - Translation mistakes. Yes, that happens. A LOT. That can happen just as easily in subs. The only difference in the process of subbing anime versus dubbing anime is that one is going to be voiced over. The Japanese language has a lot of differences grammatically from English, so translators(which are present in both subs and dubs) would have to make several changes so it could be even grammatically correct in English and during the process mistakes would be made(So you can get a sense of how different the two languages are). As an example of sub mistakes, I'll show you Crunchyroll's screw-ups that have turned into popular memes:Using the wrong names (sometimes, in Dragon Ball Z, Gohan is called Goku and vice-versa), or even the wrong voice ; Using several names for the same attack or other stuff (again, that's in DBZ ; it also happens in Saint Seiya), sometimes they translate the japanese name and sometimes they don't (the Zampakutos from Bleach ; or, again, the attacks in Dragon Ball). Also, Digi made an interesting video on this if you want to check it out(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo4BrhIFcmo). - Wrong casting. God, so many times a young character sounds awfully old, it's just stupid... On the other hand, a seiyuu always sounds how their character is supposed to sound. I can see your point when it comes to younger characters. Victorique and Rikka certainly come to mind here. However, in anime that takes place in Europe or has characters that would appropriately need an accent, the dub is always more fitting imo. For example, Hetalia is a show which parodies a lot of countries through the personification of them, so it only makes sense for the characters to have these thick, stereotypical accents. Another example would be Black Butler where it takes place in London, so it'll be more fitting for the characters to have British accents and slang. Additionally, Anne, takes place in the 1870s Canda, so the characters talking in formal English makes me more absorbed in that anime as was the case with my other two examples. - Bad acting. Seiyuus are just way better when it comes to giving life and emotions to their characters. The "occidental dubbers" are just way less competent, as well as way less serious. I disagree, I prefer all the dangaronpa dub actors over the OG(What I am rambling about). Derek's higher pitch, raucous, and sassy performance fits the character better because it has more energy which is more fitting to his more boisterous personality. Ouma doesn't come off as deceiving in a menacing way as Hiro portrays him(i.e 0:34), the way he talks about lies makes me believe he's doing it more for the fun of it instead of some calculated way to deceive others("Why do you guys hate lies so much? There's only one truth, but endless possibilities for lies, y'know?"). Hiro also doesn't have that sass in his voice that suits some of Ouma's lines such as: Hiro would be a lot more fitting for Izaya rather than Ouma since his performance is lower-pitched as well. - Some dubs are LITTERAL PARODIES, for God's sake. City Hunter, in Japanese it's a serious show ; in dubs it's become a comedy. Hokuto no Ken as well: it's full of puns (at least, in French dub). You may like the parody, but it is still a parody (hence: not the actual show). Then avoid those dubs as they are, by far, the minority. I can name far more dubs that are serious over the parodies. - Censorship. That one also happens a lot. And I'm not just talking about the nude scenes here. Sometimes, important pieces of the stories are cut out because it's considered too violent. For example, go watch the Shadow Arc from Sonic X. 4kids are infamous for this, but other dubbing companies such as FUNimation lacks this problem entirely. Another company redubbed the original SM and it's no longer censored. The same can be said for lost culture, most dubbing companies don't really do this. It's a 4kids problem. |
removed-userDec 1, 2019 8:39 PM
Peaceful_Critic said: *steals @GlennMagusHarvey disclaimer* "Replying to @Dante012's post now. I should point out, for the record, that my comments are speaking from my experiences watching English dubs. I see that you mention French dubs in several of your comments; I have not watched any French dubs before, nor do I speak French, so I can't speak for French dubs at all." - Translation mistakes. Yes, that happens. A LOT. That can happen just as easily in subs. The only difference in the process of subbing anime versus dubbing anime is that one is going to be voiced over. The Japanese language has a lot of differences grammatically from English, so translators(which are present in both subs and dubs) would have to make several changes so it could be even grammatically correct in English and during the process mistakes would be made(So you can get a sense of how different the two languages are). As an example of sub mistakes, I'll show you Crunchyroll's screw-ups that have turned into popular memes:Using the wrong names (sometimes, in Dragon Ball Z, Gohan is called Goku and vice-versa), or even the wrong voice ; Using several names for the same attack or other stuff (again, that's in DBZ ; it also happens in Saint Seiya), sometimes they translate the japanese name and sometimes they don't (the Zampakutos from Bleach ; or, again, the attacks in Dragon Ball). Also, Digi made an interesting video on this if you want to check it out(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo4BrhIFcmo). - Wrong casting. God, so many times a young character sounds awfully old, it's just stupid... On the other hand, a seiyuu always sounds how their character is supposed to sound. I can see your point when it comes to younger characters. Victorique and Rikka certainly come to mind here. However, in anime that takes place in Europe or has characters that would appropriately need an accent, the dub is always more fitting imo. For example, Hetalia is a show which parodies a lot of countries through the personification of them, so it only makes sense for the characters to have these thick, stereotypical accents. Another example would be Black Butler where it takes place in London, so it'll be more fitting for the characters to have British accents and slang. Additionally, in Anne, it takes place in the 1870s Canda, so the characters talking in formal English makes me more absorbed in that anime as was the case with my other two examples. - Bad acting. Seiyuus are just way better when it comes to giving life and emotions to their characters. The "occidental dubbers" are just way less competent, as well as way less serious. I disagree, I prefer all the dangaronpa dub actors over the OG(What I am rambling about). Derek's higher pitch, raucous, and sassy performance fits the character better because it has more energy which is more fitting to his more boisterous personality. Ouma doesn't come off as deceiving in a menacing way as Hiro portrays him(i.e 0:34), the way he talks lies makes me believe he's doing it more for the fun of it instead of some calculated way to deceive others("Why do you guys hate lies so much? There's only one truth, but endless possibilities for lies, y'know?"). Hiro also doesn't have that sass in his voice that suits some of Ouma's lines such as: Hiro would be a lot more fitting for Izaya rather than Ouma since his performance is lower-pitched as well. - Some dubs are LITTERAL PARODIES, for God's sake. City Hunter, in Japanese it's a serious show ; in dubs it's become a comedy. Hokuto no Ken as well: it's full of puns (at least, in French dub). You may like the parody, but it is still a parody (hence: not the actual show). Then avoid those dubs as they are, by far, the minority. I can name far more dubs that are serious over the parodies. - Censorship. That one also happens a lot. And I'm not just talking about the nude scenes here. Sometimes, important pieces of the stories are cut out because it's considered too violent. For example, go watch the Shadow Arc from Sonic X. 4kids are infamous for this, but other dubbing companies such as FUNimation lacks this problem entirely. Another company redubbed the original SM and it's no longer censored. The same can be said for lost culture, most dubbing companies don't really do this. It's a 4kids problem. I will just point out that bit about Japanese voice actors being better - they work closely with the creators of the series, meaning their performance is advised by the people who came up with said characters. They simply *cannot* get their characters wrong. |
| Re:formed |
| Though I agree it doesn't matter in which dun you watch, calling others "people" is offensive. |
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| At this point, it’s a matter of preference. I honestly prefer the Japanese voicing cause it usually has more emotion attached to it. The dub versions, imo, works better for the more lighthearted stuff and comedy, as well as the increased self awareness of the aforementioned. |
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| I only watch subbed anime because I have this weird quirk where I actually prefer good voice acting to shitty garbage voice acting. I'm weird like that. |
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| You are still watching anime, but you're not technically watching the same show because it is inevitable that a lot of things get changed or get lost in translation, even in the most accurate dubs. And that's not to mention more significant changes, like active localization efforts or the 'worst case' of completely changing the script like the Ghost Stories dub did. Nobody can tell me that watching Ghost Stories subbed and dubbed is a comparable experience, nevermind identical. I don't know about anyone else but for me this is not an issue of dubs being better or worse, but just an issue of translations always being a different version from the original, sometimes slightly and sometimes completely. It's not limited to anime either. You can read a book in one translation and dislike it, read it in another translations and love it and read it in the original version and be 'meh' about it. It has happened to me before. So obviously these different translations are not identical and provide different experiences to some degree, and it's the same with anime or movies as well. So I think you can not really argue that you've had the exact same viewing experience of the exact same show when there are two or more different versions/translations around. It can matter more or less depending on the example, but it's never the 'same'. The thing is that even though the main plot and themes might not change, only focusing on that in terms of the identity of the show is a bit superficial if you ask me. But yeah, if it's not Ghost Stories then you will usually watch the same plot and characters in the dub and the sub, but that's not what the argument is about as far as I'm concerned. The changes we're talking about here are changes of details, nuances, subtleties, connotations and I think it's not only inaccurate but also disingenious to pretend these don't matter and as long as you get roughly the same storyline and characters you can call two versions 'identical' or 'the same'. So yeah, you're watching anime, just a different version of it and you should be aware that not all your criticism has to apply to the original version as well because it might be based on some of the details or nuances that the translation changed. You have really no way of knowing what these differences are if you've only seen one version. But I do want to point out that this is not a judgment of quality. The original version doesn't have to be better than the translations, it can even be the other way around, but it's inevitable that they will always differ slightly (or sometimes significantly) from each other. That just comes with the territory of translations. But of course the original version tends to have a higher chance of being better since there is a direct channel from the creators to the spoken lines and everything else, while the translation tends to be done by third parties who don't have a direct connection with the vision of the director or creator. But in the end a lot can just be a matter of preference. If you prefer localization over accuracy, that's your right and you probably won't mind however they screw up translating the honorifics and other stuff. And that's the thing, most quality judgments about dubs are conditional. If you care more about X than Y than dub/sub is better for you. It's just that more viewers care about authenticity, accurate translations, being able to hear and compare the japanese audio to the english subs etc.... than there are people who care about convenience, not having to read and localization. Gabonite said: Look at Castlevenia a perfect sub and dub show. WHO CARES You do know that Castlevania is a western series and therefore the japanese version IS the dub and the english version the original audio? Just saying, it doesn't really make sense as an example in this context because it's the opposite of what this thread is about. And I never understoof why people who speak english very well would watch it in japanese with subs anyway. That's like watching Hollywood movies re-dubbed in japanese. It stops being about preferring the original audio and begins to feel like people are just worshipping the glorious japanese language over any other language, even on american shows... |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Some people prefer to read their anime over watching it, must be book nerds or smthng smh. |
Deduleadaa said: Subs and dubs are the same shit, you're not actually watching anime unless you watched everything when it first aired on japanese TV, why would someone deny a fact this obvious? With a bowl of ramen in your lap, in a cramped apartment under a kotatsu, with Shinzo Abe spying on you from a window in the black darkness of nighttime. |
| I suggest not falling for dub-hater bait, and especially not creating a whole new thread in response to it -- that's the exact kind of riled-up reaction they're looking for. |
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