| I told you, LEG LENGTH IS IRRELEVANT. That's just something you made up. |
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| So you say, but it's a very clear characteristics of neoteny, so it can't be that easily dismissed. It makes about as much sense as saying "height is irrelevant". |
 It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Sphinxter said: So you say, but it's a very clear characteristics of neoteny, so it can't be that easily dismissed. It makes about as much sense as saying "height is irrelevant". No, a loli can be short and still have long legs. Some girls under 13 DO have long legs. It happens. Shiro from NGNL has long, elegant legs which the anime frequently focuses on. Nobody is going to argue about her 'loli' position. |
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| One other thing before, for the sake of my mental health, I leave this thread alone for at least 24 hours (hell, I might just put my thoughts out there and mute the thread because I hate this debate). It's crazy to me how some people think age isn't a part of pedophillia in real life (ignorant comments earlier in this thread for example). Some people think if a guy likes petite girls then he must be dangerous, because when you exaggerate those petite features (as anime is want to do), then you end up with girls who looks barely or even pre-pubescent. As if this person that likes petite girls has no filter for the age of the girl they are looking at in real life. Take it from someone that most definitely prefers petite girls: There is most definitely a line where a real life girl is too petite so as to look like a child. And, contrary to what some people think, it is not the case that "I'm turned on but the fact it is a child stops me from thinking of acting on it". It is the reverse. I'm not turned on in the first place because I have empathy and I know there is no ethical route of viewing/experiencing anything sexual about/with such a girl. Some people seem to think guys who like petite girls are thinking all kinds of nasty stuff about RL children, but the law / social norms prevents them from acting on it for the most part. This might be the case with some deranged people, but I think anyone with empathy, who cares about other people, doesn't even have the thoughts in the first place if the girl in question is clearly too young. But anime is different! Anime can have girls like Oshino Shinobu (Monogatari) and Mina Tepes (Dance in The Vampire Bund) who are hundreds of years old but occupy bodies which are very much an exaggeration of the "petite girl" that would be way too young if they were real life girls who weren't hundreds of years old vampires. I really think some people are foaming at the mouth so badly - so rabidly paranoid about the big bad P-word, that they forget what fantasy and suspension of disbelief is and how they work in the minds of people with an imagination who are truly prepared to leave the real world behind when watching anime. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
Chiibi said: YossaRedMage said: You are quite literally the worst. Everytime I read one of your posts I regret it. Ha, thanks for the compliment. I feel like half the discussion threads on this site you're there complaining about something sexual that you don't like. ...that...doesn't sound like me. Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? I spend most of my time defending things from more negative people (like SAO and freedom of art. I might say 'I don't like this fanservice' once in a while but I don't think people are "wrong" if they feel differently. Crap. Apologies. I thought I removed that part of the post because I was partly confusing you with someone else. [EDIT: Oh lol I did edit it out but you replied really quickly] |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
Sphinxter said: It's not that you like me or anything, I b-b-baka. Chiibi said: The one big reason why this character does not have præpubescent proportions is that the legs are too long for that. In that sense he's just a short, androgynous character.Louise is just as short and flat as the other grills. She's a loli character. One of the defining proportional differences with younger humans is that the legs are considerably shorter in proportion. YossaRedMage said: So what you say is that you want to circlejerk about your favorite subject sans that it be open to criticism?While agree with your general points, and I always love how your posts trigger certain types of people, I sympathize with the guy wanting that word banned from the site. It's supposed to be an anime fandom site. People complaining about perceived pedophillia have as much of a place here as people who want to talk about their opinions on the health affects of cheese on a pizza forum. I want to talk about pizza with my fellow pizza fans without people screaming at me and accusing me of all manner of evil for enjoying a pretty fucking popular topping. I would certainly not like it if the website were to essentially enforce a position that lolicon is not pædophilia — a superior man such as myself shall obviously best the opposition with words and superior intellect, not censorship. LOL no no no. I sympathise with his position, but I would never endorse censorship of any kind. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
YossaRedMage said: Crap. Apologies. I thought I removed that part of the post because I was partly confusing you with someone else. [EDIT: Oh lol I did edit it out but you replied really quickly] Lol, it's all good. I really think some people are foaming at the mouth so badly - so rabidly paranoid about the big bad P-word, that they forget what fantasy and suspension of disbelief is and how they work in the minds of people with an imagination who are truly prepared to leave the real world behind when watching anime. Agreed. People just need to calm the f**k down...about...well, everything. Purity culture is a freaking plague. |
|
Chiibi said: It also happens that they sometimes have breasts; it also sometimes happens that they grow a beard; it also sometimes happens that they are quite tall.Sphinxter said: So you say, but it's a very clear characteristics of neoteny, so it can't be that easily dismissed. It makes about as much sense as saying "height is irrelevant". No, a loli can be short and still have long legs. Some girls under 13 DO have long legs. It happens. This one is twelve years old:  Chiibi said: Said by the man who would not only ban the word "pædophile" from a website, but also believes that pædophilia is, or should be illegal.Agreed. People just need to calm the f**k down...about...well, everything. Purity culture is a freaking plague. A superior man such as myself of course believes not that there should be such a concept of "age or consent" or that "sex crimes" should even consist as a category. It should simply in general be illegal to force a man to do things against his will, or to threaten him with illegal force — to separately classify it if it be related to this social construct called "sex", is but an artefact of puritan morality. |
SphinxterNov 18, 2019 9:12 PM
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| Gon and Killua qualify as lolis. Edward Elric as tsundere b!tch. MF Kirito qualifies as nothing. |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
| @Sphinxter I told you I'm not a man, dipshit. @shanimebib I kidnapped the shota Kirito and I'm not giving him back. :| |
ChiibiNov 18, 2019 7:24 PM
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| You look up the word in the dictionary tundere-tyan — your fragile gender identity complex is showing. From Dictionary.com: a member of the species Homo sapiens or all the members of this species collectively, without regard to sex: A superior man, such as myself, has of course no need to corrupt a word and needlessly assign it a gendered meaning to satisfy a fragile gender identity complex. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| Sphinxter, do me a solid and please stop typing words. >:| Type in romaji, even...it would make you less annoying. |
|
Chiibi said: But your obvious tundere act is so cute.Sphinxter, do me a solid and please stop typing words. >:| Type in romaji, even...it would make you less annoying. I am a subscriber to the school of thought of the venerable Aikitu Tanakadate and believe that Japan should immediately switch and and all new print to the Latin alphabet — the absurd system based on Chinese orthography is not only completely inefficient in a vacuum, but especially not well-suited for Japanese; it makes some degree of sense for Chinese, a noninflecting language, to use a single glyph for each immutable morpheme, but even for Chinese it shows its complexities in the modern age and they should probably too switch to the Latin alphabet.Traditional Japanese orthography is idiotic, and only kept to for reasons of traditionalism, and tradition is of course the bourgeois trifle of the lesser man. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Alpha_Tranny said: Don't tell him to stop; it's so cute.@Chiibi it’s okay, senpai Sphinxter notices you. You don’t need to keep playing the tsundere. No one wants a tundere to actually warm up. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| If I'm going though Gelbooru and I see the loli tag. |
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| It very much is physical trait. If you are petite and have a small body, breasts etc you would qualify. 30 year old Japanese cosplayers can pull of this look because that's all you really need. |
| If your internet gets throttled down, she's a loli. |
hazecloud said: If your internet gets throttled down, she's a loli. Or Winnie the Pooh, depends on your region. |
  ♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
Alpha_Tranny said: hazecloud said: If your internet gets throttled down, she's a loli. Or Winnie the Pooh, depends on your region. oh lmao I'm speechless. It was a good read though, the origins. |
| I think it's a character who has a lot of pre-pubescent physical features but is intended to be sexually noticeable, at least. If there's no sexual presentation, it's just a little girl, and if she looks thoroughly post-pubescent, then sexuality is expected, so there's no need for a special term. Drawings don't have ages. |
| I don't believe in lolis, I am a firm follower of the "nymphette". I recommend all of you to start reading Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita to find the exact answer |
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| Someone that's smol and cute. Koneko from High school dxd or Maho from Steins;Gate are my favorite two. Idk about you guys, but I would prefer lolis over tsunderes any day. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
YossaRedMage said: Take it from someone that most definitely prefers petite girls: There is most definitely a line where a real life girl is too petite so as to look like a child. And, contrary to what some people think, it is not the case that "I'm turned on but the fact it is a child stops me from thinking of acting on it". Good point well argued. I also like petite girls, & most of my girlfriends have been petite (but so am I to be fair) but in the real world you can definitely define the difference between a petite woman and a child, most of the time (sometimes young girls can dress up and look older than their young age). Look at Kristen Bell from The Good Place, she is lovely and petite and has loli features (small body, rather flat and large lovely eyes), but is most certainly a woman. On the other hand you have people like Ariane Grande who many people like to call "jail bait" as when she came onto the music scene she was dressing to look much younger than she was, allegedly to appeal to guys who liked younger women. So this isn't just an anime issue. |
23feanorNov 19, 2019 4:32 AM
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BlakexEkalb said: I mean if you ever have someone claim you a pedophile for liking lolis, just say “Does killing someone in a game make me a murderer/love murder?” and their claim immediately gets snapped out of existence. This is coming from a cultured man who also likes petite girls. People have pretty decent arguments against that tactic though so it doesn't work so well against smart people. The counter argument goes something like: "But physical violence is a fact of life, and often one is killing bad guys in video games so there is a moral good. Sexualizing bodies which resemble children normalizes the sexualization of children in general; something which, unlike violence, is not a normal fact of life where there can ever be a moral good. In essence, violence and sexualization are different things so not comparable." I hate to put it in such a concise, well-worded way like that, because I'm making a case for the opposing viewpoint. But it's important to understand all the arguments on both sides of a debate (even if it's rare to get people who actually engage in debate on this subject instead of screeching abuse). There are several ways to counter that though. One could point out how many games allow the player to engage in violent fantasy which is 100% morally wrong. Murdering complete strangers in GTA for example. So it's actually not so easy to draw a line and say "violence and sexualization are different things so not comparable". However I've actually started to take that same viewpoint recently. Violence is innately an act of harm, where as sexualization is not. Hell, the actual act of sex is an act of love, and I would argue sexualization is an act of worship. One other path of attack involves questioning the validity of the concept of "normalization", which I think is very doable but too big a can of worms for me to want to get in to it right now. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| A girl who is of small size. Not all lolis have to be prepubescent, there mainly three types of lolis. There are true lolis (Shiro), teen lolis (Megumin, Konata) and legal lolis (Senko, Shinobu). |
 |
| Not sure what you mean by "In your eyes" because the definition of it really isn't an opinion. Its any Female that looks very young. Its usually always Americans who screw up the definition. |
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JudgeOfJudges said: @YossaRedMage, the best argument for lolicon is that it passively prevents actual sexual violence against minors from occuring. But if people keep acting like lolicon is by no means pedophilia under any circumstances, then they can't make this argument in the first place. Yeah I agree with that mostly. I kind of think people shouldn't have to make an argument for it. I prefer to debunk the arguments against it. But you're not wrong in that providing an outlet for genuine pedophiles is a good thing. My arguments have been from the POV of someone who I think makes up the majority of pro-loli people (I avoid the word lolicon to describe myself because it suggests an fetishistic obsession - I like feet but I'm not a foot fetishist), those being people who see lolis as different from real children and not as any kind of "substitute". Hopefully I didn't give the impression that I think lolicon material is not pedophillia under any circumstances... although, I mean we're getting in to semantics, but if it's a "substitute" then it's not actual pedophillic material in a way. In any case you're right that's a good argument, I'm not sure it's the best argument though. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
YossaRedMage said: The counter argument goes something like: The argument doesnt apply in the first place imo. In violent games there is plenty to like besides violence : the action, the adrenaline, the skill, the tactics, the competition... Liking that doesn't tell that you're a violent person. Now if you're into lolis what does it tell about you? The things that you find attractive in lolis, you would also find in real girls. It tells about you that there are a significative amount of young girls assets that you find attractive. Surely in most cases it doesn't add up to being attracted to young girls, but for other reasons. I don't think that it is the same question than violence at all. (Also being attracted to whatever is fine in my book, unlike being violent) |
YossaRedMage said: "But physical violence is a fact of life, and often one is killing bad guys in video games so there is a moral good. That is subject to the counter that "presenting murder as a moral good in which to kill bad guys is used to normalise and justify horrific crimes of imperialism in which we are conditioned to think of our soldiers as the good guys when they are actually bombing and invading other people's countries and so are actually the bad guys. At least most loli material doesn't try to present paedophilia as a moral necessity." Though a substantial proportion of people won't like you pointing that out very much. |
| I think there are two types, literal little girls before becoming teenagers. And actually adult women who look very "petite". For me the girls in Non Non Byori arent lolis, except for Renge but she is more like little girl loli, not loli loli. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
logopolis said: YossaRedMage said: "But physical violence is a fact of life, and often one is killing bad guys in video games so there is a moral good. That is subject to the counter that "presenting murder as a moral good in which to kill bad guys is used to normalise and justify horrific crimes of imperialism in which we are conditioned to think of our soldiers as the good guys when they are actually bombing and invading other people's countries and so are actually the bad guys. At least most loli material doesn't try to present paedophilia as a moral necessity." Though a substantial proportion of people won't like you pointing that out very much. But we are talking fiction here not the crippling realities of war. I think there is a difference between media to entertain and propaganda meant to dehumanize. There’s my two cents way to far in the conversation. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
| Any female character, designed to look under the age of 12, often aesthetically pleasing with a cutesy moe design. Even if the character is over 18/12, if they are designed to clearly look like child, they are a loli. |
logopolis said: YossaRedMage said: "But physical violence is a fact of life, and often one is killing bad guys in video games so there is a moral good. That is subject to the counter that "presenting murder as a moral good in which to kill bad guys is used to normalise and justify horrific crimes of imperialism in which we are conditioned to think of our soldiers as the good guys when they are actually bombing and invading other people's countries and so are actually the bad guys. At least most loli material doesn't try to present paedophilia as a moral necessity." Though a substantial proportion of people won't like you pointing that out very much. I'm with you 100% and then some. One of the reasons I love Japan so much is the difference in levels of violence glorification. The Japanese tend to present violence as much more morally grey (morally grey as a concept is dying in the west in general tbf). And while my Japanese isn't good enough to be involved in the Japanese otaku community directly, I'm heard stories multiple times about how they are very aware of that difference too, much more so than many westerners. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| Fuzzy set. The closer a character is to a prepubescent age range, the more they fit into the set. The closer a character appears to be in a prepubescent age range, the more they fit into the set. The more a character fits a socially established "loli appearance," the more they fit into the set. That accounts for stuff like "oppai lolis." Lastly as a precondition lolis are anime characters, so the degree to which they fit into the set of anime characters or have an animesque appearances affects their loliness as a precondition. |
 Cute basketball lolis and a show that doesn't sugarcoat it. Thats my definition :) |
| For me loli was always about looks: petite, short, usually flat. They can be adults for all I care. Tho in anime we see both cases. Sometimes adults with the traits I listed above get called loli, and sometimes it's a word just used for a kid. One thing to note is, I don't remember ever seeing "adult looking" kid called loli, so it is about looks and sometimes people just add age as an additional filter. Somewhat relevant:  And wtf with people again going on about pedos? Lolis are cute. Just like puppies are cute. Do you want to fuck puppies? I assume no. Then why someone liking lolis is assumed to have sexual interest in them? |
JustAnotherShiroNov 20, 2019 3:49 AM
| Having the physique of someone who hasn't undergone adolescence that looks sweet enough to cause Type 2 Diabetes. |
 |
Yukikaze_sama said: For me loli was always about looks: petite, short, usually flat. They can be adults for all I care. Tho in anime we see both cases. Sometimes adults with the traits I listed above get called loli, and sometimes it's a word just used for a kid. One thing to note is, I don't remember ever seeing "adult looking" kid called loli, so it is about looks and sometimes people just add age as an additional filter. Somewhat relevant: And wtf with people again going on about pedos? Lolis are cute. Just like puppies are cute. Do you want to fuck puppies? I assume no. Then why someone liking lolis is assumed to have sexual interest in them? I have never seen this chart before... Fascinating. @Konradikon I'm sorry to hear about the loss. May you one day be able to consume soda again. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
JudgeOfJudges said: @YossaRedMage, the best argument for lolicon is that it passively prevents actual sexual violence against minors from occuring. But if people keep acting like lolicon is by no means pedophilia under any circumstances, then they can't make this argument in the first place. Lol then look at me very easily making the argument without condemning all lolicons to charges of paedophilia. "There are some paedophiles among lolicons who keep their desires in check this way. Therefore it's good that lolis exist." Easy peasy, took me five seconds. Isn't there anyone who knows how to form good arguments here, apart from a select individuals? OT: It's basically short anime girls. That's what people usually refer when they say loli. Make them a few inches taller and it magically becomes morally fine. |
AuronNov 20, 2019 3:35 PM
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Orhunaa said: JudgeOfJudges said: @YossaRedMage, the best argument for lolicon is that it passively prevents actual sexual violence against minors from occuring. But if people keep acting like lolicon is by no means pedophilia under any circumstances, then they can't make this argument in the first place. Lol then look at me very easily making the argument without condemning all lolicons to charges of paedophilia. "There are some paedophiles among lolicons who keep their desires in check this way. Therefore it's good that lolis exist." Easy peasy, took me five seconds. Isn't there anyone who knows how to form good arguments here, apart from a select individuals? OT: It's basically short anime girls. That's what people usually refer when they say loli. Make them a few inches taller and it magically becomes morally fine. This is an internet anime forum. I like to think we all might not be the brightest. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
| @Alpha_Tranny I don't disagree, but you're saying this as though people irl are paragons of intellect |
|
Orhunaa said: @Alpha_Tranny I don't disagree, but you're saying this as though people irl are paragons of intellect True, most people are generally not the smartest. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
Yukikaze_sama said: For me loli was always about looks: petite, short, usually flat. They can be adults for all I care. Tho in anime we see both cases. Sometimes adults with the traits I listed above get called loli, and sometimes it's a word just used for a kid. One thing to note is, I don't remember ever seeing "adult looking" kid called loli, so it is about looks and sometimes people just add age as an additional filter. Somewhat relevant: And wtf with people again going on about pedos? Lolis are cute. Just like puppies are cute. Do you want to fuck puppies? I assume no. Then why someone liking lolis is assumed to have sexual interest in them? Yukikaze_sama pretty much answered everything I wanted to say, so I'm just gonna quote him/her. |
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