| If anyone wishes to know just how insecure people still are, or whether we have really accepted homosexuality or not, just read Yuri!!on ice forums. Comparisons are made with lesbian couples and how it would be sexier and that I think tends to mislead. For once, just once, let's say we don't want a sexy anime. At least not one with sexiness as one of its main focus. What we have left is a love story (you get that concept? love, I mean?) between two homosexual males. Now the idea is incomprehensible. Homosexuality, whether of males or females, serves only as erotic entertainment and rarely -- in anime only -- as something more respectable (we all know that Japan rarely respects eroticism too) than mere eroticism. Only this once a serious attempt has been made to portray homosexuality, and that too of males, as normal and it's not taken as such by the viewers. The very fact that it's given names of 'queerbait' is indicative of how many among us (excluding me) are insecure about their sexuality. Disgust. |
| I see your point, but also there are quite a few yuri anime that are handled maturely as well Revolutionary Girl Utena and Sasameki Koto being two good examples. Also, i see your frustration and understand it, but you do have to understand that ''queerbait'' anime has become very popular lately, with shows such as Free and most other sport series. I agree that Yuri on Ice is different, but i dont think it has to do with people not being comfortable with their sexuality. When it comes to anime, you have to learn to not take everything so seriously. |
| I don't watch fujoshit and I will never Stop labeling the relation in those gay anime as "friendship" |
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| Okay dude, calm down with the Yuri on Ice thing... xD We all get it.. Okay... It'll be over by the end of the it... And it will be passed, nothing will talk about it anymore..xD Calm down dude... We all get your point, excluding me...xD tragedydesu said: I don't watch fujoshit and I will never Stop labeling the relation in those gay anime as "friendship" This...xD |
| Yeah, shocking truth, male fanbase don't like watching other males fuck each other! |
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SakurasouBusters said: I see your point, but also there are quite a few yuri anime that are handled maturely as well Revolutionary Girl Utena and Sasameki Koto being two good examples. Also, i see your frustration and understand it, but you do have to understand that ''queerbait'' anime has become very popular lately, with shows such as Free and most other sport series. I agree that Yuri on Ice is different, but i dont think it has to do with people not being comfortable with their sexuality. When it comes to anime, you have to learn to not take everything so seriously. That's one of the reasons why I've made this thread. Yuri tackled seriously rarely raises much issue. Yaoi tackeld seriously, however, is .... well, apparent (I'm taking yaoi and yuri as shortcut terms for homosexuality -- not the genres themselves). I'm not frustrated? I mean, why would I be??? If we all accept that homosexuality is no longer a crime, or illegal, or a disease, then the only sensible explanation as to such an abnormal reaction to a generally accepted notion is that it is playing with people's insecurities. Much like how some German liberals are still insecure about being negatively stereotyped as Nazis so they accept immigrants even to their own detriment. Aquamirror said: Yeah, shocking truth, male fanbase don't like watching other males fuck each other! Yeah, hugging is fucking. Suuuuure. |
| I haven't stepped foot on that area of MAL because I have no interest whatsoever in that show since I watch anime to escape and project myself into the characters. A romance between dudes has no space for that. |
CapitalistGod said: I haven't stepped foot on that area of MAL because I have no interest whatsoever in that show since I watch anime to escape and project myself into the characters. A romance between dudes has no space for that. I could watch gay sex, not be disgusted by at all, but puke at the thought of kissing a man. Are you sure it's not some sort of prejudice stopping you from investing into that anime? I mean, I have zero troubles in understanding the romance between Yuri and Victor. The concept I'm relating to is 'love' and their homosexuality, as such, doesn't mar any of its beauty. |
tragedydesu said: I don't watch fujoshit and I will never Stop labeling the relation in those gay anime as "friendship" What we have left is a love story (you get that concept? love, I mean?) between two homosexual males. Now the idea is incomprehensible. Unless the post was edited that's not what he said at all, on the contrary he called it homosexual love, not friendship.However if you are referring to other shows like Haikyuu, that is solely friendship. |
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Aquamirror said: Yeah, shocking truth, male fanbase don't like watching other males fuck each other! Male fanbase? You mean straight male fanbase..? Because LOL. / I mean, it's anime. You don't have to take it seriously lol but I can see where you're coming from. You have to realize that there are still some uneducated, ignorant & privileged people out there that won't take gay~ stories seriously and will resort to calling all of them 'queer-bait.' & I don't think it's their insecurities. Some people are just raised like that, even today. & believe it or not, there are some people out there who still think it's wrong, those people can go fuck themselves but that's besides the point. Doesn't necessarily have to do with any insecurities although some people may suffer from it. But yeah; I can understand some people wanting a lesbian version of YOI instead. I mean, just because you don't want to watch gay anime doesn't mean you have any prejudice for it. I, for one, would never watch a yuri anime because I have no interest in two girls getting together. Doesn't mean I'm prejudiced against lesbians, just means I'm not the target audience lol. People who say "fujoshit" like that one poster above tho are kind of annoying. Say you don't like it & move on. Stop trying to be edgy, it comes off as cringeworthy. |
| Ah it was only a matter of time before someone made this thread lol smh |
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JCAPER said: pretentious OP is pretentious. Not only he contradicts himself like @zal pointed out but assumes that if someone doesn't watch or like one show he's automatically insecure about his sexuality. Not only are you stupid, and insecure about your sexuality, but you also have extremely deficient comprehension skills because zal pointed out tragedydesu's misunderstanding, not my contradiction. Don't break the idiot record, dear. PokeFanTruffle said: I, for one, would never watch a yuri anime because I have no interest in two girls getting together. Suppose a lesbo animu came about which is famous for its romance and story. Would you watch it? |
Trance said: CapitalistGod said: I haven't stepped foot on that area of MAL because I have no interest whatsoever in that show since I watch anime to escape and project myself into the characters. A romance between dudes has no space for that. I could watch gay sex, not be disgusted by at all, but puke at the thought of kissing a man. Are you sure it's not some sort of prejudice stopping you from investing into that anime? I mean, I have zero troubles in understanding the romance between Yuri and Victor. The concept I'm relating to is 'love' and their homosexuality, as such, doesn't mar any of its beauty. I get what you're saying. No matter how amazing the show is, if the romance doesn't involve at least a girl, I won't touch it. I don't have a problem with it, it's just isn't for me. |
Trance said: Suppose a lesbo animu came about which is famous for its romance and story. Would you watch it? Haha, I see. I should probably retract the word "never" then. Just highly unlikely. My answer is yes, I would. |
CapitalistGod said: I get what you're saying. No matter how amazing the show is, if the romance doesn't involve at least a girl, I won't touch it. I don't have a problem with it, it's just isn't for me. More people like you are needed. & I completely get what you're saying. It would be highly unlikely for me to watch a show with no guys in it, we all have our tastes but at least we respect them, lol. |
JCAPER said: Trance said: Not only are you stupid, and insecure about your sexuality, but you also have extremely deficient comprehension skills because zal pointed out tragedydesu's misunderstanding, not my contradiction. Don't break the idiot record, dear. And you know all that by just reading one comment? Impressive. But seriously though, are you here to actually discuss or just to pick a fight with anyone that comes across this thread? Yes. As long as this comment is a product of your thought, and not of anyone else's, I can draw inferences about your general character from it. Unless you are drunk, or sleepy. In that case, I give you the liberty to return some other time and prove yourself. What's the difference between discussing and fighting? CapitalistGod said: Trance said: I could watch gay sex, not be disgusted by at all, but puke at the thought of kissing a man. Are you sure it's not some sort of prejudice stopping you from investing into that anime? I mean, I have zero troubles in understanding the romance between Yuri and Victor. The concept I'm relating to is 'love' and their homosexuality, as such, doesn't mar any of its beauty. I get what you're saying. No matter how amazing the show is, if the romance doesn't involve at least a girl, I won't touch it. I don't have a problem with it, it's just isn't for me. You see, that's a problem. If you don't have any problems with it, then it should be for you. Yuri!! on ice is great. And I'm not saying that considering only its romance aspect. It's generally just a great anime. Homosexual romance is just one aspect of it, and something that you admittedly are totally fine with as well. Yet still if you want to stay away from it for no other reason than this, then you have some insecurities about your sexuality. Or have some reservations about homosexual couples in general. |
| I don't know if people are insecure but i'm pretty sure that by MAL standard even Banana Fish would be considered fujo bait. |
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Trance said: CapitalistGod said: I get what you're saying. No matter how amazing the show is, if the romance doesn't involve at least a girl, I won't touch it. I don't have a problem with it, it's just isn't for me. You see, that's a problem. If you don't have any problems with it, then it should be for you. Yuri!! on ice is great. And I'm not saying that considering only its romance aspect. It's generally just a great anime. Homosexual romance is just one aspect of it, and something that you admittedly are totally fine with as well. Yet still if you want to stay away from it for no other reason than this, then you have some insecurities about your sexuality. Or have some reservations about homosexual couples in general. As I said earlier if there is a romance, I project myself into the male (or if it's a legit yuri anime then anyone). I can't project myself into the character if both of them are males since I'm not attracted to the same sex, I'm attracted to females. This also breaks immersion and my enjoyment of it since I won't have an emotional investment with it. Again, it isn't for me even if that particular romance is just an aspect of it. |
| MAL is pretty 4-chan-ish, after all. I don't mind people being unable to identify with romance of another sexual orientation but being grossed out at two characters in a homosexual relationship and claming it's being thrown in your face is a little overboard. I haven't watched Shinsekai yori but I have seen the kiss scene and while I'm unaware of the context, even if it does come out of the blue it's not like it's the end of the world. It's just two dudes kissing. |
CapitalistGod said: As I said earlier if there is a romance, I project myself into the male (or if it's a legit yuri anime then anyone). I can't project myself into the character if both of them are males since I'm not attracted to the same sex, I'm attracted to females. This also breaks immersion and my enjoyment of it since I won't have an emotional investment with it. Again, it isn't for me even if that particular romance is just an aspect of it. I think everyone does that. I do too. I project myself onto Victor here. It doesn't break immersion. Your problem, in my opinion, is that you're not much in love with the concept of love itself. See it as a two-fold scenario: 1. Two people are loving each other. 2. Love is happening. Almost never do we need to consider the first to enjoy a good romance. The 2nd is enough. Every good romance viewer knows that it is love itself that matters most, not the ones involved. All the personal development of the characters has to revolve around how much damage their current personalities are inflicting upon their collective 'love'. The point in romance is not to fulfill your fantasies but to merely see Love itself dancing between two imperfect and incomplete individuals. JCAPER said: So you mean to say that a comment that does not comment on the author's point of view of the matter at hand, allows you to draw a conclusion about his opinion? If you read my comment again, nowhere I said what I thought about gay relationships or yaoi, nor if I am straight or gay. For all you know, I could be a gay black transgender. All I commented about was how pretentious you are, and you keep proving me right. In your first OP you assume you got all this matter figured out, and anyone who disagrees with you is a prick and you stand in a higher moral ground. And what makes it even worse is that you even say "how many among us (excluding me) are insecure about their sexuality". Excluding you? Excuse us princess, obviously anyone but you can be anything negative. It's obvious you have the higher moral ground. How more pretentious can you be? But regarding the matter at hand, here's the deal: entertainment is subjective. You can't force people to like or dislike something. If a person is not into mechas, it doesn't make him mechaphobic. If a person is not into shoujo, it doesn't make him shoujophobic. If a person is not into gay romance, it doesn't make him homophobic or insecure. I personally would watch a movie with gay romance as long the movie's story was good. If the movie was focused on the romance however, chances are I wouldn't watch it. Not because I'm insecure, but because gay relationships are not my thing. Kudos to anyone who likes it though and I hope the money they payed to watch it is worth it. As for what's the difference between discussing and fighting, it's simple. Discussing is a friendly or formal share of ideas and arguments. Fighting, is attacking other people and arguing in hostile manner, like what you are doing. Your point of views are not a part of your personality, they are a result of your personality. I want to know the person you are, not the results of your personality. Get some EQ pretty boy. The problem is not so much that I wish to stand above all, but that whether you can dethrone me from my imaginary throne or not. Accept the absurdity of life mate. Any day someone can break into your house and declare himself your ruler. Would you tell him that what he's doing is illegal or would you kick his hairy butt out? I'm not forcing anyone to like anything. I'm only observing people saying something, and then I'm seeing them do the exact opposite. I'm pointing out the doublethink here. I couldn't care less if you don't like YoI or some other anime that I like. What I want to know is your reason for not liking. And if your reason for not liking YoI is that it's gay -- even though you accept homosexuality -- then you need some spanking. |
TranceDec 9, 2016 1:30 PM
JCAPER said: Trance said: Not only are you stupid, and insecure about your sexuality, but you also have extremely deficient comprehension skills because zal pointed out tragedydesu's misunderstanding, not my contradiction. Don't break the idiot record, dear. And you know all that by just reading one comment? Impressive. But seriously though, are you here to actually discuss or just to pick a fight with anyone that comes across this thread? You got roasted hard mate, don't try to make a comeback. And he's right, you totally misread zal's post. @Trance hmm you make me want to check Yuri on Ice. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
JCAPER said: I didn't point out that but trance corrected you already.pretentious OP is pretentious. Not only he contradicts himself like @zal pointed out but assumes that if someone doesn't watch or like one show he's automatically insecure about his sexuality. I think he is mostly complaining by the double standards of people loving lesbians relationships but bashing on homosexual relationships that are not limited to the pure Yaoi genre. Another thing, even if these people are not actually insecure they do give this impression. |
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CapitalistGod said: Trance said: You see, that's a problem. If you don't have any problems with it, then it should be for you. Yuri!! on ice is great. And I'm not saying that considering only its romance aspect. It's generally just a great anime. Homosexual romance is just one aspect of it, and something that you admittedly are totally fine with as well. Yet still if you want to stay away from it for no other reason than this, then you have some insecurities about your sexuality. Or have some reservations about homosexual couples in general. As I said earlier if there is a romance, I project myself into the male (or if it's a legit yuri anime then anyone). I can't project myself into the character if both of them are males since I'm not attracted to the same sex, I'm attracted to females. This also breaks immersion and my enjoyment of it since I won't have an emotional investment with it. Again, it isn't for me even if that particular romance is just an aspect of it. You see.That is the problem OP @Trance .He just pointed out that he don't want to watch something like that.Simple right?But no.If you don't want to watch yaoi "then you have some insecurities about your sexuality" am I right? Hmm let me check my porn history. Nope still no gay porn.Sorry. And no I don't think YoI is a porn or something but I hopefully thought my sarcasm let you see the point here. |
Trance said: CapitalistGod said: As I said earlier if there is a romance, I project myself into the male (or if it's a legit yuri anime then anyone). I can't project myself into the character if both of them are males since I'm not attracted to the same sex, I'm attracted to females. This also breaks immersion and my enjoyment of it since I won't have an emotional investment with it. Again, it isn't for me even if that particular romance is just an aspect of it. I think everyone does that. I do too. I project myself onto Victor here. It doesn't break immersion. Your problem, in my opinion, is that you're not much in love with the concept of love itself. See it as a two-fold scenario: 1. Two people are loving each other. 2. Love is happening. Almost never do we need to consider the first to enjoy a good romance. The 2nd is enough. Every good romance viewer knows that it is love itself that matters most, not the ones involved. All the personal development of the characters has to revolve around how much damage their current personalities are inflicting upon their collective 'love'. The point in romance is not to fulfill your fantasies but to merely see Love itself dancing between two imperfect and incomplete individuals. You do have a valid point but in the end of the day it's just another viewpoint. I will still view romance fiction to fulfill fantasies... Well, I might just be able to see that viewpoint if I myself experienced a romance. I haven't yet, so....yep. |
CapitalistGod said: You do have a valid point but in the end of the day it's just another viewpoint. I will still view romance fiction to fulfill fantasies... Well, I might just be able to see that viewpoint if I myself experienced a romance. I haven't yet, so....yep. That's exactly what I was thinking. Don't worry, you'll understand it all once you actually get some romance irl. Mod Edit: Removed quote of deleted post. |
ArdanazDec 15, 2016 3:31 AM
Trance said: CapitalistGod said: You do have a valid point but in the end of the day it's just another viewpoint. I will still view romance fiction to fulfill fantasies... Well, I might just be able to see that viewpoint if I myself experienced a romance. I haven't yet, so....yep. That's exactly what I was thinking. Don't worry, you'll understand it all once you actually get some romance irl. Well, you can add a reason why people don't want to watch shows that shows homosexual romance.... aside from sexual insecurity... xD Clebardman said: @sasalx Your sarcasm surely made your point more obscure. How can you self-insert in a girl x girl romance when characters are lesbians and wouldn't be attracted to you? Anything is possible. At least for me, a man who hasn't been in a romantic relationship for 25 years and counting... xD |
JCAPER said: @sasalxzal said: I didn't point out that but trance corrected you already. I think he is mostly complaining by the double standards of people loving lesbians relationships but bashing on homosexual relationships that are not limited to the pure Yaoi genre. Another thing, even if these people are not actually insecure they do give this impression. Just like girls dislike yuri. Because let's be real, yaoi is pretty much a genre for female audience, meanwhile yuri is for male audience. Gays that watch yaoi or lesbians that watch yuri are the minority. No one said you or anyone else HAVE to like it. However going into a show with homosexual relationship and saying that you would like to see a lesbian relationship is dumb. Despite what sexuality, it is still a romance and some people might watch it for that element. |
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How can I expect you to see my point when you can't even see your own irony? just who the fuck do you think started with one-liner roasters? |
| now you know how us ecchi/loli/moe fans feel when people never stfu about how they don't like young girls being sexualized or the their idealized body parts being shoved in our faces as well as their (obviously, cause its fiction) unrealistic personalities now i personally have no problem with fujobait, i simply don't watch it... unlike many ecchi haters who watch anime just to bitch about a pantyshot anyway, unfortunately its hard to me to see this as more than simple revenge.... although i will not partake in fujobashing anyway... im a straight male, therefore i don't want to see guys being super super close... that doesn't mean "i have a problem with it". it has just as much a right to exist as any other genre |
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| why is someone who dislikes homosexuality always insecure? seems to be gay-KO-argument EcchiLordMamster said: i for one don't care :Dnow you know how us ecchi/loli/moe fans feel when people never stfu about how they don't like young girls being sexualized or the their idealized body parts being shoved in our faces as well as their (obviously, cause its fiction) unrealistic personalities.... |
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| Guess it is yet again time for me to contribute my usual rant about this topic. Well, yeah, homophobia is still a thing and parts of the anime fandom are particularly bad in this regard. And vocal. And obsessed about making it seem like the natural stance of any heterosexual male to to treat anything gay with a mixture of disgust and aggression. They aren't satisfied just having their opinions and preferences and being assholes about it, they always insist it's the normal thing to do, which is probably what aggrevates me most about those people. They refuse to accept that anyone who isn't gay can watch anything remotely related to the topic of homosexuality (unless it's lesbian fanservice). They need to believe that only rotten fujoshi enjoy something like that because otherwise they might be the weird ones for their irrational degree of aversion to anything that has two males in it who talk to each other. In the case of Yuri on Ice they refuse to accept that it only reached the popularity it has because the fanbase is diverse and aside from fujoshi and regular girls also includes a lot of males who sincerely like the show, for its concept, its direction, its romance, its visuals, etc... At the end of the day they are just a vocal minority who are, for some reason, so bitter and frustrated and scared of the topic of homosexuality that they need to take every opportunity to vehemently point out that a) they are not into anything with two males in it and b) noone else should be enjoying anything like that either unless they are a fujoshi fapping to Yaoi Hands. It's literally the same handful of posters every fucking time a thread with a related topic pops up, it's both sad and funny. Some of them have been at it for years, like they are on a mission to make everyone on MAL know how obsessively they distance themselves from anything ranging from Haikyuu to gayporn. I should know, I've put most of MALs vocal homophobes on ignore over the years and everytime there is a thread about homosexuality I see the same wall of minimized posting the ignore function is protecting me from. I have to add tho that being a homophobic asshole doesn't have to mean someone is insecure about their sexuality. Sometimes they're just assholes, period. No further psychological analysis required. I'm sure they're assholes about other things they don't like, don't understand or don't approve of as well. The silent majority fortunately doesn't share their obsession and the - even to me - unexpected popularity of Yuri on Ice just proves that. No matter what those people think, you don't reach that level of popularity without having a solid fanbase with both sexes. I personally know more male fans who love the show than females among my MAL friends. Most people have moved on past the homophobic phrases and the need to reassure themselves and the of their heterosexuality. All that's left is a few, sad figures still standing at the same place they stood 5 years ago shouting the same bullshit phrases they've been shouting all their life, and probably will be shouting for the remainder of it. Like I don't watch fujoshit and I will never Stop labeling the relation in those gay anime as "friendship" when it's only them and the hardcore fujoshi seeing anything gay in some of these anime. Or Yeah, shocking truth, male fanbase don't like watching other males fuck each other! when sex isn't even a thing in any of those shows. But I am optimistic that in a few generations those kind of people will have almost died out. Their numbers are already dwindling and they're trying to make up for it by being twice as loud and four times as obnoxious about their preferences as anyone else, but don't let them fool you. They know exactly that they are becoming an endangered species, hence why they are so anxious these days. The best you can do is not to give them a platform for their agenda. Don't engage them, just smile upon them with pity for their life is being dominated by petty fears of men kissing each other and whatnot. They are helpless to defend themselves against the world conspiring to commit the 'crime' (in their eyes) of accepting homosexuality as something normal not to be frowned upon, something that has a place in mainstream media and any other place where romance or sexuality play a role, and they lash out as a defense mechanism. I've tried reasoning with them in the past but that is just a depressing and futile act. Now I just recommend ignoring them and focusing on the many people who have more reasonable views on the topic. On a sidenote the episode discussion forums always bring out the worst in people - and the worst people - so you will always find plenty of offensive, provocative, trolling, baiting and shittalking posts there. If you do not enjoy partaking in such activities or engaging individuals who do, I strongly recommend never going to these subforums ever again for the sake of your sanity. Especially for ongoing shows. I've been active on MAL for almost 7 years, and I love this place, but I can only do that because I've avoided the series subforums from day 1. If I hadn't I'd probably have quit MAL and possibly the internet as a whole long ago. It really isn't a place for anyone with a brain and/or a sincere intent to talk about things in a nice and orderly fashion, without insults and baiting. So basically you can only blame yourself for getting aggrevated about anything that happens in there. It is a cesspit. It is to be expected. But don't judge MAL or people in general based on places where they're at their worst. Like youtube comments or the series discussion subforums. |
AlcoholicideDec 9, 2016 1:52 PM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| If an anime is immaturely portraying a romantic or sexual relationship between two characters, I will not watch it (regardless of gender). However, when you name an anime such as Yuri!!! On Ice —where it is currently still inconclusive if the characters will end up together in a romantic relationship— where the matter at hand is handled maturely and realistically, I won't be able to peel my eyes off the screen. As a straight woman, I would have had absolutely no problem with it if these two characters have happened to be female. I do not watch anime out of a romantic interest therefore it does not matter what these character's genders are. I feel that women generally have a different view on this. I cannot say that I have ever come across a woman who was downright revolted by a relationship involving two females. It's upsetting how many men are simply disgusted when they see two men even holding hands. And in any of these anime targeted at a more mature audience (and by this I mean mature by social norms, not sexual ones) it doesn't go much further than holding hands or a brief peck here and there. |
 » "Mercy is for losers..." « ⍏⍏⍏⍏⍏ inspector @ MAL's anime watching challenge |
| As much as I agree with you, I don't think anime and manga are going to take LGBT into a much deeper level any time soon. The best I can do is suggest that you read/watch other kinds of media. There are many books that take LGBT seriously. The closest you can get to finding some LGBT thing eye-catching + romantic (to the right amount) and not just for sexual gratification is webtoons. -- Plus you said lesbianism excluded. I personally would say that if there were a lot more yuri lovers it would be because of fanservice, which you will find a lot in yuri manga. So technically you should think of it as gayness and lesbian(ess?) as a whole. |
| don't really see the point on hating Yuri on Ice ok they're gay? Who cares? I don't really care for yaoi or yuri I prefer guy on girl in most cases but why hate on a character’s sexual preference just because you don't have the same preference Finding love is hard enough without the needless hate |
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| @xDru >We're talking about romance. >"I'm sorry that I don't support your fetish " 1/I think you meant "share" and not support, I don't need your support or approbation to do any kind of consensual sexual act I feel like doing. 2/Who talked about fetishes? R-O-M-A-N-C-E. You guys should really get laid, it did me good too back in the days. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
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