| So a certain anime has the top 5 review scores of 3, 2, 4, 5, and 3. Roughly 1000 users found one those five reviews helpful. The weighted score for the anime is 7.90 with 29% of users giving the show an 8. Does this mean those 5 reviews were written poorly or just represented the reviewers own opinion on the show rather than analyzing it fairly? Should a good review be written objectively? Reviews shouldn't be taken too seriously since everyone likes different things but reviews can help give you a sense of what to expect. To me, it's odd to see such low top rated reviews when the vast majority of viewers think otherwise. In this case, review scores of 3, 2, 4, 5, and 3 give me the impression that what I'm about to watch blows radish balls but after watching the first three episodes I can say that the show will probably be getting a 6 or 7 from me, lower than the mean score but still within a fair range. What are your thoughts about this? The topic isn't about good shows being rated poorly or vice versa but the importance of being able to write solid reviews. In my eyes a good and trustworthy review should have a rating that is near the average score. |
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| I'd say the top reviews are closer to the 'true quality', whatever it is. Thus I value the top review scores more than the average score. Namedrop Charlotte. |
BrandNew_Lanz said: I'd say the top reviews are closer to the 'true quality', whatever it is. Thus I value the top review scores more than the average score. Namedrop Charlotte. I see what you mean. I did read the top review for this certain anime and a couple of the points made I agreed with. I feel like I'm one of the only few that liked Charlotte somewhat. It was a mess but it was a beautiful mess. |
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| Not that it represents anything, but Happy Happy Clover has a mean score of 6.7 and all of the reviews (ie. mine) gave it an 8 and 1/20 the number of people who voted on the anime (5 people) marked the review as "helpful". Sword Art Online is pretty well known for having a high mean and low reviewer scores. The mean of the top reviewers scores would be 4.25 while the mean of the anime is 7.92, which is a very big difference. Nasu: Andalusia no Natsu is quite the opposite having a mean score of 7.19 and a top reviewer mean of 8.5 (only two reviews, though, and 15 people who marked them). |
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| There is no such thing as an objective review. I don't care about averages or reviews as they don't align with my tastes that much. |
HecticLeo said: So a certain anime has the top 5 review scores of 3, 2, 4, 5, and 3. Roughly 1000 users found one those five reviews helpful. The weighted score for the anime is 7.90 with 29% of users giving the show an 8. Does this mean those 5 reviews were written poorly or just represented the reviewers own opinion on the show rather than analyzing it fairly? Should a good review be written objectively? Diplomatic answer: Whether their opinions are biased or not, depends. You're gonna have to read the review to know it. Honest answer: Those shows are the 'overrated' ones. The reviewers know what they're talking about and anyone who is used to critically analyzing anime would see its flaws. 7.9 isn't really a good MAL score anyway. Reviews shouldn't be taken too seriously since everyone likes different things but reviews can help give you a sense of what to expect. To me, it's odd to see such low top rated reviews when the vast majority of viewers think otherwise. In this case, review scores of 3, 2, 4, 5, and 3 give me the impression that what I'm about to watch blows radish balls but after watching the first three episodes I can say that the show will probably be getting a 6 or 7 from me, lower than the mean score but still within a fair range. You said it yourself, MAL reviews are just for reference and it won't guarantee you of whether you'll like/dislike the show.. What are your thoughts about this? The topic isn't about good shows being rated poorly or vice versa but the importance of being able to write solid reviews. In my eyes a good and trustworthy review should have a rating that is near the average score. As I said in another such thread not too long ago: Gesu- said: - Provide the reader with a well informed introduction to the shows themes. - Go over the objectives first; ie art and animation, OST, production quality etc.. - Voice your opinion on how well the show implements its themes or how well it presents them. Go over the pros and the cons.. - Sum it up & give your final verdict. Opinions on the anime has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a review.. |
| -A good review is a good review, regardless of the score it gives. -You can't write a review objectively, every review represents the reviewer's own opinion, it's just about how well the user justifies it. -Most shows tend to be overated anyway because of the large amount of users who think 7/10 means bad and the users who are satisfied with everything as long as it has pretty colours. |
| It just means that the reviewers represent people who disliked the anime and other people who disliked the anime voted "helpful". Since there is no "not helpful" button anymore and you can't vote down these reviews, and thats why they usually stay high once they get there. These are usuallly reviews that were written just after the series finished airing, so that they were very first ones. And I totally disagree with your statement that a good review should have a rating near the average score, it's just plain stupid. |
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Gesu- said: I know I shouldn't go off on this, but this is completely false. The average anime is rated 6.9 and 7.9 would be around the 660 mark out of 7500 (top 9%) which is a very good score.7.9 isn't really a good MAL score anyway. The "overrated" idea does make sense as casuals aren't likely to make reviews, let alone good ones, and other casuals aren't as likely to mark their reviews as "helpful". |
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| Reviews with a ton of up votes are usually from ppl who have a large following. They just like any review that person does since they follow them. Sad to see this but reviews are the most inaccurate way to measure an anime true rating. At the end of the day the aggregate rating is a bit more telling. |
Moogle-Magic said: Same with Neon Genesis Evangelion, I find that show to be pretentious bullshit for people who want to seem like they're more intelligent than they actually are. That sentence is pretentious bullshit. |
mouvite said: It just means that the reviewers represent people who disliked the anime and other people who disliked the anime voted "helpful" The button isn't suppose to represent wether you agree with the score or not, it's suppose to show if you found the review helpful or not. |
zombie_pegasus said: Gesu- said: I know I shouldn't go off on this, but this is completely false. The average anime is rated 6.9 and 7.9 would be around the 660 mark out of 7500 (top 9%) which is a very good score.7.9 isn't really a good MAL score anyway. The "overrated" idea does make sense as casuals aren't likely to make reviews, let alone good ones, and other casuals aren't as likely to mark their reviews as "helpful". That actually varies from the exposure the anime gets to the demographic it's aimed at. For mainstream anime 7.9 is pretty mediocre. And as for the 'casuals don't write reviews part. Just go have a look at the review section right now. |
Moogle-Magic said: How so? I just couldn't find anything worthwhile in it. And whenever I asked a fan about what they understood from it and all, none of them could give me a straight answer, yet claimed that it's the best thing ever since underwear. While I won't claim that NGE is God's gift to mankind, it is an interesting look at human psychology. Though you have to admit. First cour wasn't really that good(Ok, it's shit, sue me). The show only ramped up in the last 7 or so eps. |
Moogle-Magic said: Well obviously if you couldn't find anything worthwhile in it, it must mean that there's nothing and everybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot, while you, on the other hand, are much more intelligent because you managed to not find it good?How so? I just couldn't find anything worthwhile in it. And whenever I asked a fan about what they understood from it and all, none of them could give me a straight answer, yet claimed that it's the best thing ever since underwear. Sounds like pretentious bullshit to me. There's a plethora of reviews, videos, analysis and posts listing reasons why people like evangelion, I guess none of them had any argument, is that what you're saying? |
Gesu- said: Exactly, there's a shitton of garbage one liner reviews and MAL is constantly trying to find ways to get rid of them.And as for the 'casuals don't write reviews part. Just go have a look at the review section right now. They're not top review because they write shit reviews a lot of the time. |
Touniouk said: mouvite said: It just means that the reviewers represent people who disliked the anime and other people who disliked the anime voted "helpful" The button isn't suppose to represent wether you agree with the score or not, it's suppose to show if you found the review helpful or not. It isn't supposed, but that's how it works. Most people who liked the anime probably won't even bother to read a negative review, let alone agree with it. |
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Moogle-Magic said: But then again, it's just my opinion ( keep repeating this because I don't want NGNL and NGE fans jumping at my throat, had that happen before ). Gesu- said: Honest answer: Those shows are the 'overrated' ones. The reviewers know what they're talking about and anyone who is used to critically analyzing anime would see its flaws. 7.9 isn't really a good MAL score anyway. Touniouk said: ...it's just about how well the user justifies it. mouvite said: And I totally disagree with your statement that a good review should have a rating near the average score, it's just plain stupid. |
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HecticLeo said: Gesu- said: Honest answer: Those shows are the 'overrated' ones. The reviewers know what they're talking about and anyone who is used to critically analyzing anime would see its flaws. 7.9 isn't really a good MAL score anyway. There've been plenty of suggestions regarding this in that suggestions board but absolutely no fucks given.. |
moodie said: Reviews with a ton of up votes are usually from ppl who have a large following. They just like any review that person does since they follow them. Sad to see this but reviews are the most inaccurate way to measure an anime true rating. At the end of the day the aggregate rating is a bit more telling. This. Like it or not, the MAL avg score it has is a pretty good indicator if it's good or not. |
| I'd much rather an opinion than a score. |
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moodie said: Reviews with a ton of up votes are usually from ppl who have a large following. They just like any review that person does since they follow them. Sad to see this but reviews are the most inaccurate way to measure an anime true rating. At the end of the day the aggregate rating is a bit more telling. Maz said: ...take the time to write a long and coherent review on something, chances are they might take anime a little more seriously and the aforementioned issues have... |
HecticLeoJun 9, 2016 11:38 AM
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| The first and foremost point is that you should always take reviews with a grain of salt, since they're based on someone else's feelings and opinion rather than your own. It is impossible to be completely free from bias, so even if someone does a good job of explaining what the anime is about, they're still going to have to give their own opinion on it at some point. This might vary wildly to your own. But with that in mind, you should also take into account the type of person who is more liable to write a review. Those who take a more casual stance to anime and don't sweat over the small details are more likely to enjoy something that has a lot of issues, plot holes, plot armour, poor characterisation, etc, whereas if someone is going to take the time to write a long and coherent review on something, chances are they might take anime a little more seriously and the aforementioned issues have a higher probability of negatively impacting their enjoyment and impression of a series. These are generalisations, of course, but well-written reviews are typically done by those who put forth a little more effort into their critiques, from what I've seen. Going on with that point, those who take the more casual approach are also less likely to be the ones writing a review, I would posit. So this will immediately create an imbalance in the amount of positive and negative reviews. Another angle to consider is hype and haters. If a series because incredibly popular and it becomes the norm to bash on it, those reviews which are negative and scathing could end up becoming highly rated just because people want to hate on the anime, not because the review itself contains much merit. This will be true for fanboys/girls upvoting positive reviews, naturally, but I'd wager haters are going to go to further lengths to disparage an anime on all fronts than the people who enjoyed it will. Furthermore, and I said this in a different thread yesterday, you shouldn't really pay much attention to the MAL score anyway. Oftentimes they're really not indicative on an anime's perceived quality, and too many people have too many different ways of rating what they see. This stems not only from differing opinions, but different rating scales too. If many people only vote from 5-10, it will inflate the score a little because they aren't using the lower numbers. If 7s are used for things that are "alright" and 5s are used for anime that they hated, the score will go up. This is another reason why I think that reading reviews is a far better method of gauging whether an anime is worth watching or not than simply looking at the score of it. The same is true for the extreme reverse, too. I've seen many anime with scores of 7-8 where all top-rated reviews are 10s. I've had times where I've been trying to look for a review with a score of 8 or 7 because I wanted to see the positive side of it without the extreme bias present in a 10, but had to go quite far down the list to actually find one. The swathes of 10s will make you think something is absolutely amazing but it just turns out to be decent. |
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
55Snakes said: That's the difference between the opinion of the plebs and opinion of the elitists. Sometimes the plebs are right, sometimes (rarely) the elitists are and often it's neither of them, so it's a bit of a challenge to tell which series are actually good. What needs to be realized is what some consider to be good, some consider to be garbage. |
HecticLeo said: Side topic, I think there should be some kind of system that recognizes reviewers who constantly put out strong reviews. I don't know how it would work or be implemented but it would help weed out any weak reviews, not every MAL user who decides to write a review is capable of critically analyzing, only a couple of reviewers that I look out for myself. Well I mean, there's that thing which is a start. I saw a thread not long ago requesting a "critic" rating for users like others who have the "admin" or "mod" thing on their profile, it was refused because MAL doesn't want to separate the community into casuals and elitists. A bunch of good reviewers have a strong following regardless. Moogle-Magic said: Of course not. People can like and dislike whatever they want. I don't think I'm more intelligent than anybody else just because I don't like NGE. And if people found it enjoyable, good for them, I just didn't. Stop pretending that I'm the bad guy because how dare I disagree with you. I didn't find anything interesting in it and I didn't feel the need to watch videos listing reasons why people like it because, frankly, I don't care about that anime. It's just another one of those that I didn't find enjoyable. Yeah, you don't think you're more intelligent, you just think they're dumber... sounds pretty similar to me. I'm not saying you're the bad guy because you disagree with me, I haven't even seen NGE, I don't care if you like it or not, I'm saying you're the bad guy because you insulted an entire fanbase just because they liked a show, blaming me for not accepting different opinions after that is nothing short of hypocritical. Also, you said no one could give reasons as to why they liked the show and then backtracked by stating you never bothered to listen to those reasons, are you even trying to make sense? |
| I don't know, but I find it annoying when all of the most helpful reviews of an anime are 9 or 10 out of 10. Ironically enough that is not very helpful. |
55Snakes said: That's the difference between the opinion of the plebs and opinion of the elitists. Sometimes the plebs are right, sometimes (rarely) the elitists are and often it's neither of them, so it's a bit of a challenge to tell which series are actually good. Yes, because all elitists think the same and all casuals think the same, there is only ever 2 opinions on any given piece of art clearly separated in two groups, elitists and casuals. Hell just click on any show's stats right now, you'll notice that there's a huge number of 1/10 and 10/10 with almost no scores in the middle. Lobinde said: I don't know, but I find it annoying when all of the most helpful reviews of an anime are 9 or 10 out of 10. Ironically enough that is not very helpful. That's very true, especially with anime that have a ton of circlejerk where every review says the exact same thing. To be honest I wish the any anime would feature the highest rated positive review and the highest rated negative one as comparing the two can give you an impression of the show. Thought that may just increase the amount of troll reviews. mouvite said: It isn't supposed, but that's how it works. Most people who liked the anime probably won't even bother to read a negative review, let alone agree with it. Sadly, that's true most of the time. |
TounioukJun 9, 2016 11:49 AM
Moogle-Magic said: Touniouk said: Well obviously if you couldn't find anything worthwhile in it, it must mean that there's nothing and everybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot, while you, on the other hand, are much more intelligent because you managed to not find it good? Sounds like pretentious bullshit to me. There's a plethora of reviews, videos, analysis and posts listing reasons why people like evangelion, I guess none of them had any argument, is that what you're saying? Of course not. People can like and dislike whatever they want. I don't think I'm more intelligent than anybody else just because I don't like NGE. And if people found it enjoyable, good for them, I just didn't. Stop pretending that I'm the bad guy because how dare I disagree with you. I didn't find anything interesting in it and I didn't feel the need to watch videos listing reasons why people like it because, frankly, I don't care about that anime. It's just another one of those that I didn't find enjoyable. But you didn't say "I don't like NGE". You said "NGE is for pretentious elitists who think they're smarter than they really are", which isn't the same thing. |
| I feel like most people click on the thumbs up button only based on the score given and don't read the review at all. It's basically confirmation bias in play where people only tend to give a thumbs up to a review which they felt gave a score they agree with, as I feel that most people read reviews (or in this case just look at the score) after they've seen a certain show or at least seen a few episodes and made up their mind. This is why you can find most helpful reviews with low and high scores for the same anime, even if they're not well written. |
bikers123Jun 9, 2016 11:59 AM
Something witty that makes you think I'm funny Defeating a sandwich only makes it tastier |
Lobinde said: I don't know, but I find it annoying when all of the most helpful reviews of an anime are 9 or 10 out of 10. Ironically enough that is not very helpful. Luthandorius said: Which anime are you talking about? If the example is really existing here at MAL you should have posted a link. |
HecticLeoJun 9, 2016 12:06 PM
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| Which anime are you talking about? If the example is really existing here at MAL you should have posted a link. It is possible to have helpful reviews where the reviewer did not like stuff - but explained it pretty well. Then some reader might know exactly that he got a different taste and would like it. And if that is the case the reviewe will be helpful and he will vote higher and a higher score will be possible. Just means that for that anime more "elitists" bothered to write reviews and that is why there are only reviews with low scores. |
Luthandorius said: Which anime are you talking about? If the example is really existing here at MAL you should have posted a link. It is possible to have helpful reviews where the reviewer did not like stuff - but explained it pretty well. Then some reader might know exactly that he got a different taste and would like it. And if that is the case the reviewe will be helpful and he will vote higher and a higher score will be possible. Just means that for that anime more "elitists" bothered to write reviews and that is why there are only reviews with low scores. Pretty sure he's talking about Danmachi fam. 55Snakes said: You're exaggerating but what you say is not even that far from the truth. The most obvious example is SAO where all plebs give it 10 (or 9) and a vast majority of elitists give it a 1 or their personal equivalent of a 1 be that a 3, 5, or whatever. I'm not saying the phenomenon happens to all anime or that there are no scores in the middle, but just that it's a tendency for some anime and so that's why the OP is seeing series with high average scores have top reviews which give it low scores. I was exaggerating in hope that you would get my point, which you didn't. That's the stat for SAO on MAL, if you can't see the clear separation, it's because there isn't. There's no such thing as a casual / elitist separation, just people with opinions. "Elitism" isn't a group of people with a shared opinion, it's a state of mind, it's people who think their opinion is absolute. The biggest "elitist" I've seen on this website has hardly ever given an anime a score below 8/10. |
HecticLeo said: Interesting to see that in the top 4 are 3 users whose reviews I always enjoy reading. The thing is doing it's job! I feel you bro, Veronin easily makes my top 5 favourite reviewers, and the Llama writes good stuff too. |
TounioukJun 9, 2016 12:41 PM
Touniouk said: To be honest I wish the any anime would feature the highest rated positive review and the highest rated negative one as comparing the two can give you an impression of the show. Thought that may just increase the amount of troll reviews. I think that would work actually. Have the front page for an anime show the two highest rated positive reviews (8+) and then the two highest rated neutral/negative reviews (under 8, because most people including reviewers consider 7 a neutral score nowadays). Although this might make the amount of troll reviews increase, I think it would encourage people to start thinking about anime more critically when writing reviews at least, and it would guarantee that you see both sides to an anime's reception rather than just the hypetrain/hatetrain and nothing else. |
Lobinde said: I think that would work actually. Have the front page for an anime show the two highest rated positive reviews (8+) and then the two highest rated neutral/negative reviews (under 8, because most people including reviewers consider 7 a neutral score nowadays). Although this might make the amount of troll reviews increase, I think it would encourage people to start thinking about anime more critically when writing reviews at least, and it would guarantee that you see both sides to an anime's reception rather than just the hypetrain/hatetrain and nothing else. 8 is pretty high dude, I was thinking more like 6 or more for positive and 4 or less for negative. |
Touniouk said: Lobinde said: I think that would work actually. Have the front page for an anime show the two highest rated positive reviews (8+) and then the two highest rated neutral/negative reviews (under 8, because most people including reviewers consider 7 a neutral score nowadays). Although this might make the amount of troll reviews increase, I think it would encourage people to start thinking about anime more critically when writing reviews at least, and it would guarantee that you see both sides to an anime's reception rather than just the hypetrain/hatetrain and nothing else. 8 is pretty high dude, I was thinking more like 6 or more for positive and 4 or less for negative. I do too, but the matter of fact is that most people seem to consider anything less than 8 a neutral or negative score. I've read many reviews here which have more negative than positives to say but have a score of 7. And where would 5 out of 10 scores fit in your metric? Would they just not be shown for being too neutral or something? |
Moogle-Magic said: I didn't watch that anime for the action, because that's not what the anime's key element is, but rather for the psychology. I didn't find much of that, either, though. But that's just me. As far as I recall, it was only Shinji getting scared, which is not something that put me off. Actually, I sympathized with him for the most part. So you only focused on Shinji? The rest of the main cast is also portrayed in a nice manner too, and you get to understand them by the way they act. Perhaps you skimmed over them, because Eva cares more about showing than telling. Just because you can't see the "depth" doesn't means it isn't there. It's a perspective issue in the end, as you said, that's just you. _________________________________________________________ Well, if scores were as fair as reviews aspire to be, we wouldn't be having the issue you mention, OP. |
 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye.But does the heart have the right perspective? |
AxBattler said: For what it's worth, for me 5/10 is basically average...Some people may consider a 5/10 really awful. |
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Lobinde said: I do too, but the matter of fact is that most people seem to consider anything less than 8 a neutral or negative score. Idk man, usually serious reviews (those that aren't a bunch of one liners) seem to use the scoring system pretty well. Not only that, but separating as you said will only encourage misuse of the scoring system which isn't a good idea. Lobinde said: I've read many reviews here which have more negative than positives to say but have a score of 7. Well if those users want their reviews to appear in the "negative" section, they're going to have to rate it according to the scoring system. Also, those reviews may be because no matter how many flaws the thing may have, the small positive aspects still make it worth it. Lobinde said: And where would 5 out of 10 scores fit in your metric? Would they just not be shown for being too neutral or something? Another way to go about it would be to have two of each positive, neutral and negative shown, where: -positive is 10, 9, 8 or 7 -neutral is 6, 5 or 4 -negative is 3, 2 or 1 |
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