| I noticed a lot of complaints about the VN players on the forums, and many people saying "Just shut up and enjoy the adaptation." in response to them. I'll try to go over the reasons why the issues are occurring. "Those VN players feel so entitled to complain about the anime." Do you understand the frustration I feel when I find Masato's arc to be lower rated than most of the heroine routes? I'm baffled that the Rin and Refrain episodes are so significantly worse received than Kurugaya's arc. It's depressing having to eat my words about the hype I once had for this series. It's one of the worst feelings I've ever had. VN players have been the backbone of the community and have spread the word and hype of this series, and seeing JC Staff make blatantly wrong and ineffective changes to the series is frustrating. The complaints for the adaptation weren't even this prevalent in season 1, back when they actually adapted the CGs faithfully and played the proper OST for the emotional scenes. Now, they've not only managed to rush the more important parts of Little Busters, the Rin and Refrain arcs, but they've managed to make them the least appealing episodes for a lot of people. Changed the music for their climactic events was just icing on the JC Staff cake for this adaptation. They even left out vital scenes that helped transition between Rin's route and Refrain, and that made the show feel even more disjointed and random with the start of episode 7 than it as in the VN. (I'm referring to Riki's promise to become stronger that essentially initiated the time loop, which was changed to a flashback to season 1.) There is plenty of inconsistency that shouldn't be in the series, aside from the mystery aspect and unexplained questions. "Just enjoy the adaptation." We can't simply "enjoy the adaptation" when viewers, VN readers and anime-only viewers alike, are complaining about issues we couldn't predict would happen. We experience so much anxiety over this adaptation. We didn't think Kurugaya's disappearance would be so rushed and her character would come off as shoddily developed and unbelievable for some people. We didn't think that Kyousuke's shift to antagonism would be as utterly sharp and jarring as it was, enough that people actually complain about how sudden it is. We didn't imagine that people would be calling CHEAP TRICKS and the runaway with Riki and Rin "forced drama". The events were all built up to in the VN, and if there the intended development Jun Maeda wrote for the story was present in the anime, most of the complaints for the show couldn't be legitimately made. The runaway was when I gained respect for Riki as a character and enjoyed his growth, and I feel like everyone would've come to like Riki much more if that segment of the VN was't made into a montage. We didn't expect Masato to look like a freaking zombie people and get 1 measly episode for his hour of story content. It should've been taken seriously despite the confusing aspect of Masato's delusions, but they managed to make the scene hilarious rather than emotional. We didn't think that Kyousuke would go from being antagonistic with his "Called game." line, and to depressed 12 minutes later. Furthermore, I didn't think JC Staff would use an awkward black aura with Kyousuke in a corner to illustrate his depression, and hoped they would introduce his behavioral shift with the CG from the VN. "The VN players are overreacting." No, we aren't overreacting. We want others to experience the same unique emotions that Little Busters brought us from the visual novel, and due to complications with the production of the anime, this isn't happening nearly as seamlessly. When one of Key's best works is being laughed at primarily due to its execution, we start to become upset from how the show is being handled. It's just that simple. Some examples of poor CG adaptation: For the anime-only watchers that are still enjoying this: Great for you. It's good that you guys are probably paying more attention to the show, and are taking the plot events seriously and don't mind all the rough edges that the series has. "I'm a VN player and I don't see anything wrong with the adaptation. I'm fine with the changes." Not to sound harsh, but your standards are lower than a lot of others who have read the VN. I believe, at least, that Refrain was precisely and intricately written, and when they take out development and present the series in a way that merely glosses over main plot points. A quote from Jun Maeda: (JM):"There’s a reason I write music. That is, if you put in a request with someone else for a piece of music to accompany a particular emotional scene, the image of what you imagined as being the right piece of music for the moment might not get across perfectly well. Because you’ve already thought to yourself, “If this sort of heartrending theme would be playing, I would feel like crying right now”, it’s something that only you perfectly put into music as you imagined it." Maeda's mentality for scene execution is music composition associated specifically with scenes he designs. When Maeda wrote the scenes in Refrain and had songs composed and picked for them, he had a creative vision of how the scenes would function together. JC Staff has changed this vision by changing up the songs and scenes. If you don't think music is that important, you're probably so naturally accustomed to being swayed by the tone and style of music that you don't even realize how integral it is to a show and its presentation of the narrative. Conclusion So, what do you want from us? Do you want us not to complain about how piss poor of an adaptation a lot of us feel this is compared to the VN? This VN was more than just "decent" or even "good" for a lot of us. Many of us felt it could go up there with After Story by the end of it, but with 5 episodes left, I don't see it surpassing Angel Beats in terms of widespread appeal. You act like our complaints are baseless, or that we're literally forcing you to read all of them. Go to Crunchyroll or something if you want only positive posts from casual watchers who don't care whether this anime is decent or amazing, and will enjoy it regardless. tldr;The purpose of this thread was to give some base to our complaints, and to exemplify how a lot of us feel about how things are going. We don't really want talk poorly about the adaptation of something we love, but when it's misrepresenting our VN, it's a natural reaction from us. So, please just scroll past our comments, because we're not going to "go off into our VN discussion thread" to voice our opinions for each individual episode. |
Vladz0rNov 25, 2013 3:12 AM
| The problem is that the VN is massively overrated anyway... There is no way that it even would come close to After Story so I don't see any reason to put up such a fuss cause of it. An average VN gets adapted into an average Anime, nothing more was to be expected. |
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moriandrio said: The problem is that the VN is massively overrated anyway... There is no way that it even would come close to After Story so I don't see any reason to put up such a fuss cause of it. An average VN gets adapted into an average Anime, nothing more was to be expected. Well, it's an "average" VN that's widely considered to be close to the appeal of the Clannad VN. I'm assuming this is a shitpost, but I don't appear to be on /a/ right now. Just completely throw all of my logic out the window with your baseless post, why don't you? It's not about it becoming "close to After Story", if you feel like the story would never come close to it. Many people I know feel it exceeded After Story. It's about it doing the source material justice, which isn't happening. You don't seem to acknowledge any of the poor execution, or have any sense of how the source material was simply well received, and not just overrated. Clannad should easily be more overrated considering how mainstream and popular it is, and Little Busters should be underrated for being VN-only for 5 years, and having to constantly be compared to its predecessor. If you "don't see any reason to put up such a fuss cause of it.", how about actually reading my thread? I'm simply answering your shitpost for other people who would actually believe that your opinion is right. I look forward to hearing some actual useful replies later on, though. Good night everyone~ |
Vladz0rNov 25, 2013 2:37 AM
| What else would you expect as answer on such a whine thread. That is the reason why you get that "shut up and enjoy the adaption" so many times. Key's best work, sorry but that is just a bad joke... |
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| ^agree with moriandrio Clannad series much better than LB. And to be honest, LB not even close to Angel beats! (as anime and VN) |
IZUMI64Nov 25, 2013 2:52 AM
| There is something I need to get off my chest as well. Ever since the first season began, us VN readers have been following the adaption, commenting on it and shared our opinions. We have been the core of the fanbase. We were looking forward to the adaption and we shared our joy over it every day. We were discussing various parts of both the Anime and the VN, clearing up misunderstandings and offering explanations to things that were not 100% clear. We encouraged those who thought "Little Busters!" is an anime about a random bunch of kids randomly having fun for no good reason to keep watching it, cause they were mistaken. Day in day out, we fought, defending the story of LB and despite the adaption not living up to our expectations, we stayed here and kept defending it. We always made sure to put any spoiler information into spoiler tags in order to not spoil anyone and diminish the experience that is LB. Heck, some of us even went as far as to form our own fansub group to ensure that everyone can get the best possible (and closest to the VN) experience when watching Refrain!!! And this is the treatment we get for all our efforts? "VN players fuck off!" "VN players shut up!" "VN players stop bitching!" "VN players, stop being anal!" "VN players, go to your own thread!" This is just not right. After pouring our blood, sweat and tears into supporting this anime, we get treated like something nasty. It feels like I'm being backstabbed by my own allies. Listen, we just can't help but compare the Anime to the VN. Since we know more about the entire work, this knowledge compells us to be more critical towards the Anime. To many of us, "Little Busters" is one of the favorite, if not THE favorite game and naturally, we'd want the best possible adaption for it. So please do treat us normally. If you don't like our posts, just skip them and move on. It's frustrating to be rejected this way after all we have done. |
Naoki-SatenNov 25, 2013 2:56 AM
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moriandrio said: What else would you expect as answer on such a whine thread. That is the reason why you get that "shut up and enjoy the adaption" so many times. Key's best work, sorry but that is just a bad joke... Bad joke...? Someone explicitly shown me some info that the creator himself stated Little Busters is his best work yet surpassing Clannad's true route aka Afterstory, and many fans AGREED. For review-wise by players, Little Busters was really well received all over Japan. For sales-wise, LB being completely sold out over and over everywhere for the first few months, that gave Little Busters an award for top pc game for it's year of release. Don't get me wrong, Clannad did sell just as much, but it's the high ratings that Little Busters received that it got this popular. Clannad was an older visual novel by 3 years so that could be one reason why (the old character designs). If it's my own opinion, then I'm going to be honest with you... I teared in both visual novels (Clannad/Little Busters), but Little Busters gave me a feeling of fulfillment when i finished it. Everything was EXPLAINED. Clannad's ending was a lot more confusing. It had a happy ending, yes, but it still had holes in it's plot that it can be interpreted as a deus-ex-machina. |
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moriandrio said: The problem is that the VN is massively overrated anyway... There is no way that it even would come close to After Story so I don't see any reason to put up such a fuss cause of it. An average VN gets adapted into an average Anime, nothing more was to be expected. The Little Busters VN far exceeds the quality of Clannad in both character and story development. The reason we are all getting wound up about it is that this truly had the potential to be something great. Clannad had forced melodrama which told you what to feel. This "should" be different, by this point in the VN you would genuinely care for the characters and truly want to know what is going on. Instead what we have is something that feels so rushed that you can barely make sense of it. Squeezing Masato's route into one episode also means that we will get the same for Kengo as well and it's a damned shame. Refrain from a VN standpoint is a whole league above Clannad: AS and it truly is a disgrace that all us VN players are getting made out to be liars simply because of our own experiences with the source material. moriandrio said: What else would you expect as answer on such a whine thread. That is the reason why you get that "shut up and enjoy the adaption" so many times. Key's best work, sorry but that is just a bad joke... It is Key's best work, even Jun Maeda said so after it's release. It's not Key's fault for the lousy adaption. The buck lies with J.C Staff on this one. |
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moriandrio said: The problem is that the VN is massively overrated anyway... There is no way that it even would come close to After Story so I don't see any reason to put up such a fuss cause of it. An average VN gets adapted into an average Anime, nothing more was to be expected. IZUMI64 said: ^agree with moriandrio Clannad series much better than LB. And to be honest, LB not even close to Angel beats! (as anime and VN) I realize you guys thought this is a "whine thread" and therefore came rushing in, looking for a fight. But you're missing the point. This is not a Clannad vs Little Busters discussion or a Key works comparison thread. |
Naoki-SatenNov 25, 2013 3:07 AM
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Naoki-Saten said: I realize you guys thought this is a "whine thread" and therefore came rushing in, looking for a fight. But you're missing the point. This is not a Clannad vs Little Busters discussion or a Key works comparison thread. Na its all about entitlement of VN players. But then every LN Reader and Manga reader would have to put up a fuss each time an adaption isn't what they expected as well. That Clannad is by far the better VN is my personal opinion. |
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moriandrio said: That Clannad is by far the better VN is my personal opinion. Ummm good for you I guess... but as the guy above you stated, this isn't a Clannad vs LB! discussion. |
moriandrio said: Naoki-Saten said: I realize you guys thought this is a "whine thread" and therefore came rushing in, looking for a fight. But you're missing the point. This is not a Clannad vs Little Busters discussion or a Key works comparison thread. Na its all about entitlement of VN players. But then every LN Reader and Manga reader would have to put up a fuss each time an adaption isn't what they expected as well. That Clannad is by far the better VN is my personal opinion. You should've said that in the first place then... Don't know if you wanted to start a rage-fest from those first two posts of yours... Personal opinions are welcomed, just don't make it sound as if it's the fact of the century. You didn't even say why it's better, so troll points increase even more+. And please don't mention it into this unrelated thread that has nothing to do with it. There is actually a thread for this somewhere here... lmao. I really hate comparisons when the premise or creator of an anime are the same/identical. Naoki-Saten said: moriandrio said: The problem is that the VN is massively overrated anyway... There is no way that it even would come close to After Story so I don't see any reason to put up such a fuss cause of it. An average VN gets adapted into an average Anime, nothing more was to be expected. IZUMI64 said: ^agree with moriandrio Clannad series much better than LB. And to be honest, LB not even close to Angel beats! (as anime and VN) I realize you guys thought this is a "whine thread" and therefore came rushing in, looking for a fight. But you're missing the point. This is not a Clannad vs Little Busters discussion or a Key works comparison thread. Agreed, this is a thread about why the vn players out there are complaining about every little thing about this adaption. Pretty sure many players (not just restricted to visual novels, but light novels and manga too) want others to experience what they've experienced themselves. That's why they are trying to portray and convey the feeling to new viewers. Not everyone wants to come here expecting to watch, but are suddenly told to play a vn to understand the feeling. That's where players with knowledge of the original sources come in play. (〜￣▽￣)〜 |
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| I agree with Vladz0r in every point possible, Before Refrain even started airing I was so amped about Refrain being put into anime form, All my posts are from only commenting in the Little Busters forum here in MAL. Being a VN player (I 100% enjoyed the VN, the feels and everything made such a huge impact on me.) But after a few episodes of Refrain being aired, I just suddenly lost interest in watching the anime, being less amped and less hype. Since JC Staff has poorly adapted the anime, leaving out scene's/adding unwanted scene's or just plain crappy animation. So yes, we have the right to complain, and if anime-only viewers want to come tell us to shutup, then please fuck off. I loved the VN, and I was surely thinking that im going to love the anime adaptation, but I guess not. GG JC Staff. |
moriandrio said: But then every LN Reader and Manga reader would have to put up a fuss each time an adaption isn't what they expected as well. Wait... doesn't that happen with every single adaptation? :S |
| After all the posts here, especially Vlad's wall of text, I almost had nothing else to express. Everything about Little Busters! is something that I love. First of, I've bought all the volumes, which is in fact the only anime series I invested this much despite its lousy adaptation. Sorry for the troll posts above but I can't just accept that Little Busters! is an overrated shit that deserves an average anime.. and wait what? It didn't even come close to AS? Did you really read the VN or just skimmed through it? Yes, you are entitled with your own opinion, you can state that you love Clannad more, but to tell that it didn't come even close is a great exaggeration to your part. It was like saying that Usain Bolt is a slow runner and emphasize that it was just your opinion. Totally insane dude. And to keep matters safe, I'll state now that Little Busters! is not the first VN I played, nor the first anime, nor the first manga nor whatsoever. That way, you can safely assume that I am not biased in saying this: "Little Busters! is the greatest story I've experienced!" I admit, I rated a few VN's out there higher than Little Busters!, but this piece of work gave me the most emotion, the most attachment, and the most satisfying experience. G-Senjou, Muv-luv: those are the VN's I rated higher than this, but I love Little Busters! way way way more. And that probably would remain the same in the far future. For others there who can't even contain our "whinings" in the episode discussion forums, sorry, if you can, just skip our posts, but as what Vlad stated above, it just really frustrates us that an awesome piece of work gets tarnished by a lousy adaptation, because for that reason, the way we adore and exalt the awesomeness of Little Busters! becomes an exaggeration, a lie, an overreaction because of how the anime presents it. No one wants that. No one wants something that they value highly be seen as trash by many. And hey, just a trivia, I started posting here in MAL when S1 aired. And majority of my posts came from these forums. |
| There is a big reason why LB is considered better than all of Key's work so far... The moment of epiphany when you realize everything ties in and the second time through the entire story when you finally get what's going on is just that great. Refrain not only tied in pretty much everything, it cast them in a completely different light you might never have had dreamed of when you first started the game. That's why for the show to leave very little impact on us despite that is quite frankly laughable and rageworthy. |
OLHeartsNov 25, 2013 7:37 AM
"Now's the time for you to run towards the day you awaken from this dream." ~Boys be Smile |
| I do think we have the right to complain. It´s true we probably had out standards set too high, and the anime audience seems to be enjoying it (some of it at least), but most VN players agree that this is a below average adaptation. There isn´t much to say here, because I mostly agree with what Vlad said, and LB isn´t my favorite VN, but I did love it enough to want to see a good adaptation, which at this point... will never happen. Terminaato said: moriandrio said: But then every LN Reader and Manga reader would have to put up a fuss each time an adaption isn't what they expected as well. Wait... doesn't that happen with every single adaptation? :S Even though I am one of the VN players that is unhappy with this adaptation, I have to admit this is true. Since the VN was so good, we set our standars too high. It probably was the same with Danganronpa last season. I still think it could´ve been way better though. LB is not my favorite Key work, but I would make several changes in order to try and fix the anime, because if this keeps up, the final part of Refrain won´t be anywhere near as emotional as it was in the VN. And I do agree with EratiK, this adaptation doesn´t target VN players, but anime audience. We do, however, have a right to complain, since we are part of the said anime audience. I also find it funny that people ALWAYS have to make this kinds of threads a Clannad vs LB discussion. THIS ISN´T THE THREAD TO DISCUSS THIS. Besides, there isn´t an answer, its up to everyone to have their own opinion. |
Diogo_BrandoNov 25, 2013 4:42 AM
| What makes it worse is that little Busters! EX, Seemed to have gotten all the budget that was meant for Refrain, judging by the 16 second PV.... Also 8 episode for EX? Are they joking or what? |
DeathDoUsPart said: What makes it worse is that little Busters! EX, Seemed to have gotten all the budget that was meant for Refrain, judging by the 16 second PV.... Also 8 episode for EX? Are they joking or what? Well, Japan loves Saya after all though I doubt "the budget meant for Refrain" does seriously go to EX since EX is 8 episodes and what they released is just only a fucking 16-second CM. You can't just aimlessly blame the 16-second CM since it's only 16 seconds. Blame it if you seen the actual 30-minute episode and if you notice the much effort that they gave on it unlike Refrain but it's impossible because they haven't released it yet. |
TennoujiNov 25, 2013 9:29 AM
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| As a VN reader, I don't think this season is bad at all. It obviously isn't as good as the VN, but it's doing a very good job as an anime adaptation. You need to realize they only have 13 episodes to work with, and they're doing an excellent job with such limited time. |
DeathDoUsPart said: What makes it worse is that little Busters! EX, Seemed to have gotten all the budget that was meant for Refrain, judging by the 16 second PV.... Also 8 episode for EX? Are they joking or what? Don't let them fool you. Remember how everyone was like "Whoa, Refrain preview had top animation! Refrain is saved!" And now look what became of it -_- so good preview =/= good anime Solkiskey said: As a VN reader, I don't think this season is bad at all. It obviously isn't as good as the VN, but it's doing a very good job as an anime adaptation. You need to realize they only have 13 episodes to work with, and they're doing an excellent job with such limited time. The problem is, only having 13 episodes for Refrain is a mistake in itself. Not saying that they'd need full 26 episodes, but 13 is just not enough. |
Naoki-SatenNov 25, 2013 9:35 AM
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Naoki-Saten said: Don't let them fool you. Remember how everyone was like "Whoa, Refrain preview had top animation! Refrain is saved!" And now look what became of it -_- so good preview =/= good anime This. So that's why I said he/she should judge/blame/whatever it if he has seen the actual 30-minute episode or the whole 4 episode arc of Saya or EX as a whole. |
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| True, but if people loved Saya so much in Japan, then why only 8 episodes for EX, and why only 4 episodes for her entire route? I wana c them pull this off so good that there will be little to no complaints about EX. |
| That's the only thing that I don't know. Hearing EX season will get 8 episodes is more surprising in a bad way than hearing Refrain season will get 13 episodes. Seeing on what they did on season 1 and the "faults on Refrain season that VN players found", probably or most likely because of the budget issues "again". |
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| Always the budget with JC Staff, they never have enough budget to actually pull off a good anime. instead they mess up with most of what they get. That is why I Hope to god that they do not get to do Rewrite (If an anime adaptation is greenlit) id rather have popular companys do it, then to see JC mess up yet again. |
DeathDoUsPart said: sakuraso had pretty consistently good animation, i dont know why they wold be having problems with the budget for a cash cow like LBAlways the budget with JC Staff, they never have enough budget to actually pull off a good anime. instead they mess up with most of what they get. That is why I Hope to god that they do not get to do Rewrite (If an anime adaptation is greenlit) id rather have popular companys do it, then to see JC mess up yet again. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: DeathDoUsPart said: sakuraso had pretty consistently good animation, i dont know why they wold be having problems with the budget for a cash cow like LBAlways the budget with JC Staff, they never have enough budget to actually pull off a good anime. instead they mess up with most of what they get. That is why I Hope to god that they do not get to do Rewrite (If an anime adaptation is greenlit) id rather have popular companys do it, then to see JC mess up yet again. Some of the anime they produced indeed had a good animation, Sakurasou being one of them. But to make Key's best work (Little Busters) where they did such a sloppy/crappy job in the anime adaptation is just wrong in so many ways. |
Naoki-Saten said: DeathDoUsPart said: What makes it worse is that little Busters! EX, Seemed to have gotten all the budget that was meant for Refrain, judging by the 16 second PV.... Also 8 episode for EX? Are they joking or what? Don't let them fool you. Remember how everyone was like "Whoa, Refrain preview had top animation! Refrain is saved!" And now look what became of it -_- so good preview =/= good anime Solkiskey said: As a VN reader, I don't think this season is bad at all. It obviously isn't as good as the VN, but it's doing a very good job as an anime adaptation. You need to realize they only have 13 episodes to work with, and they're doing an excellent job with such limited time. The problem is, only having 13 episodes for Refrain is a mistake in itself. Not saying that they'd need full 26 episodes, but 13 is just not enough. I think that's more of a funding problem than a bad decision. I'm just happy we're getting a Little Busters adaptation that isn't complete crap. |
| I'm an anime-only viewer, and i still found this to be poorly directed. My gripe with the first season is that they just seemed to just adapt arcs, and that's it. What i liked about the Clannad->Afterstory adaptation is they didn't adapt all the arcs, and the way they adapted it felt right chronologically, so as a result there was a nice flow, the main heroine has slow buildup throughout the series, and side characters still have some important screentime outside their arcs. LB's first season is really hurting refrain because they seem to have all this importance on some characters, but i feel there wasn't anything for me to give a shit. |
RockerXD said: I'm an anime-only viewer, and i still found this to be poorly directed. My gripe with the first season is that they just seemed to just adapt arcs, and that's it. What i liked about the Clannad->Afterstory adaptation is they didn't adapt all the arcs, so as a result there was a nice flow, the main heroine has slow buildup throughout the series, and side characters still have some important screentime outside their arcs. LB's first season is really hurting refrain because they seem to have all this importance on some characters, but i feel there wasn't anything for me to give a shit. The thing is, unlike clannad all the arcs have to be adapted in order for the overall story to work. |
RockerXD said: I'm an anime-only viewer, and i still found this to be poorly directed. My gripe with the first season is that they just seemed to just adapt arcs, and that's it. What i liked about the Clannad->Afterstory adaptation is they didn't adapt all the arcs, and the way they adapted it felt right chronologically, so as a result there was a nice flow, the main heroine has slow buildup throughout the series, and side characters still have some important screentime outside their arcs. LB's first season is really hurting refrain because they seem to have all this importance on some characters, but i feel there wasn't anything for me to give a shit. All the character routes had to have been adapted as they are of dire importance to the story and without them, parts of Refrain wouldn't make too much sense. |
| Alright, time to write some concise replies to all these posts. @Episode count: I think even with 3 more episodes, this season could be immensely better. 1 extra episode to cover Rin's route and the events at the house. Change the Refrain structure so that it's: 1.5 episodes common route, 1.5 episodes of Masato's arc (2nd Refrain episode would end with Riki preparing to fight Masato, and the next episode would have a longer perspective shift for him with the extra time) 1 extra episode for Kengo's arc, because it'll probably be rushed. The rest of Refrain shouldn't have as many pacing issues as Masato and Kengo's arcs. Also, this show should've had heavy script revisions. I can tell Maeda didn't take a look at this script at all, because of how vital plot points and development were thrown out, and Maeda likes to keep foreshadowing/buildup in his more recent stories. @Budget Sakurasou is funded by ASCII Media Works, is LIGHT Novel adaptation with a franchise ASCII can profit from, it's a multiple studio project, the LN writer was involved in the scriptwriting, and it had an experienced series composer who has worked on a lot of more complex and detail-heavy series. There's also the poor sound director they used for LB, while the excellent sound director who has done countless popular and successful series worked on Sakurasou. Little Busters had little going for it because Warner Bros. and JC Staff didn't think it was worth giving it a decent budget and enough episodes for the story to feel emotional for more people. People don't seem to understand is that VN adaptations CAN have good pacing for their final arcs and buildup for development, even while cutting out other content. Without trying to name other ones and start more comparisons... I'll say that it was a mistake giving Little Busters 39 episodes to try to cover this much content. Other adaptations have significantly less priority on side routes, or even cut them out. Rin and Refrain suffer from the same, if not WORSE pacing issues than the side routes. They didn't cut out of Little Busters, and kept a lot of the common route. It's almost like a series of episodic OVAs based on the VN, rather than a continuous story, due to how little leeway the scriptwriter has to adapt everything to try to cover everything. But yeah, a lot of this was a result of funding and selection issues. Warner Bros. and JC Staff could've given it 52 episodes, a sizeable budget, used the scriptwriter/series composer for Golden Time / Clannad, Fumihiko Shimo, and could've gotten Tatsuyuki Nagai to direct it, and it could've easily been JC Staff's best anime. They simply didn't trust in one of the topselling Visual Novels of all time to be able to sell itself if it was done well. The Little Busters anime could've easily been a universally popular and well received show mirroring the VN's success, if it had been well done. @Rocker The story could've essentially been less disjointed if there were more episodes for emotional attachment for some arcs, better comedy+animation+directing. They also used a majority of the episodes on the drama and didn't get people really familiar with the characters. The heroine routes aren't quite as engaging without all the common route familiarity with everyone. Also, they couldn't simply "pull a Clannad" and get Riki and Rin together, because their relationship was never really romantic to begin with. It's an awkward and somewhat childish for the most part, and having them get together in the first season would keep it inconsistent with the themes of the story, which involved Kyousuke getting to be with Rin as the story approaches its end. I still feel like animation held the series back a lot, and a lot of dialogue became subtle and forgettable due to the weak direction. There was some potential buildup and characterization that people can easily miss due to how weak it's portrayed. |
| i Have played the Visual Novel multiple times, and it is the only Visual novel to make e cry soo much. However i seem to be the only one who thinks that Jc staff is doing a pretty great job of adapting Little Busters Refrain, Yes they have made a ton of mistakes , but i can tell that they are trying really hard to make it as faithful as they can, its not perfect but to me its as good as i could have hoped :) |
Reckoner said: Still this cannot account for basic stupidity in the individual routes to begin with. When people are complaining in the anime threads you shouldn't automatically interpret this as "OMG how they could dislike something I liked, JC Staff must've screwed up and this is why!" That sort of approach is VERY silly. I think the only silly thing here is how you can actually accuse anyone of such behavior (that 'VERY silly' doesn't even begin to describe). I'm not even sure I can take that paragraph seriously. Are you just trolling? When did anything like that ever happen? You can't assume that a group of people is beyond stupid just cause you don't like them -_- SakurasouBusters said: i Have played the Visual Novel multiple times, and it is the only Visual novel to make e cry soo much. However i seem to be the only one who thinks that Jc staff is doing a pretty great job of adapting Little Busters Refrain, Yes they have made a ton of mistakes , but i can tell that they are trying really hard to make it as faithful as they can, its not perfect but to me its as good as i could have hoped :) Unfortunately, I cannot share your optimism because the evidence of J.C Staff NOT trying really hard. Take for example the incinsistency in episode quality. There are episodes in season 1 like ep18 that are brilliant all the way and there are downright terrible like ep09. And in terms of pure animation quality, there was the issue in episode 25 where Rin's ass was animated better than Koshiki's fall from the roof. It means that J.C is giving their all at certain times but totally slack off on others. They put effort into important episodes but don't really give their best in those less significant. Trust me, I DO want to believe in J.C. and I pretty much did that all the way until Refrain episode 07. But I've really given up now. The passages that made me cry in the VN have barely invoked any emotion in the Anime. That's not really acceptable now that we're at a critical part of the story... |
Naoki-SatenNov 25, 2013 6:02 PM
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Seano299 said: RockerXD said: I'm an anime-only viewer, and i still found this to be poorly directed. My gripe with the first season is that they just seemed to just adapt arcs, and that's it. What i liked about the Clannad->Afterstory adaptation is they didn't adapt all the arcs, and the way they adapted it felt right chronologically, so as a result there was a nice flow, the main heroine has slow buildup throughout the series, and side characters still have some important screentime outside their arcs. LB's first season is really hurting refrain because they seem to have all this importance on some characters, but i feel there wasn't anything for me to give a shit. All the character routes had to have been adapted as they are of dire importance to the story and without them, parts of Refrain wouldn't make too much sense. Hmm, better wording would be, it felt like it was just adaptations of arcs, i probably think it couldve been in in a more coherent way while building rin/riki/everyone else so it makes refrain (anime) that much more impactful |
| Honestly I said this before Refrain started but LB is an average VN with an amazing route refrain and it was never going to adapt that well to an anime because the majority of it is long monologues / different perspectives that just don't work well for an anime and it has been adapted so far as expected minus the humor which wasn't that important to the plot and while there are some valid criticism the majority of if is just trivial shit that just comes across as whining. |
| Well watching people give opinions on something that you know is absolutely amazing be brushed off as stupid by those that don't know how much better it was or could be, is hurtful. |
| Little Busters is the best played the VN and love the anime. I liked most of the Original Clannad, but people's expectations for me of what I should feel about the After Story make me never want to watch it. |
| Dr. Sheldon Cooper " It is no way to make new humans. People coming out of people. Some kind of dirty magic show. |
DeathDoUsPart said: Always the budget with JC Staff, they never have enough budget to actually pull off a good anime. instead they mess up with most of what they get. That is why I Hope to god that they do not get to do Rewrite (If an anime adaptation is greenlit) id rather have popular companys do it, then to see JC mess up yet again. How about Manglobe? Lol I have no idea or knowledge of what's good with these kind of things I'm so sorry. What would be a good animation studio if a rewrite adaptation were to be greenlit? |
MCAL said: And on the topic of complaining... people, its just a bench. No need to get upset over it. Haruka sanely disagrees. |
| Having never played Little Busters. I can't say much about it... But I will say I am loving the anime so far. And to people saying the creator has said it is his best work... That's not exactly a strong argument. It may well be, as I said earlier I haven't played it... But as someone who draws and studies art. Most of the time the artist will favour a piece that isn't necisarily their best in the first place. Being the one who created something will always give one a scewed view on the quality of a piece. That being said it may very well be his best... |
BloodiRose said: Having never played Little Busters. I can't say much about it... But I will say I am loving the anime so far. And to people saying the creator has said it is his best work... That's not exactly a strong argument. It may well be, as I said earlier I haven't played it... But as someone who draws and studies art. Most of the time the artist will favour a piece that isn't necisarily their best in the first place. Being the one who created something will always give one a scewed view on the quality of a piece. That being said it may very well be his best... People say that Maeda said the same thing back when he made Clannad. It's not about whether it's his best or not. We're just trying to emphasize that there are plenty of people, Maeda included, who are proud of Refrain, and put it at least close to being on the level of Key's best works. You can't really quantify anything from Key as their best, because the way their themes relate to you as an individual will be different from how they relate to someone else, and some people appreciate different storytelling aspects, boys more than girls or vice versa, love and family over friendship, etc. |
pipeds said: Ok guys, just to share my opinion on this. I've also read VN first FYI. So for the VN readers, just be grateful that this was given an adaptation, there are tons of VN out there where fans are craving for an adaptation but we all know that an adaptation of VN wouldn't really be as good as VN. Yea, but you forgetting that most Key Visual Novels get an anime adaptation, I wouldnt be surprised to see Rewrite getting an anime adaptation. |
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