| can u modify your own subject lines? i'm not subjetive |
| All opinions are subjective. There are informed opinions and uninformed opinions. You may be able to articulate why you like something, which would make you more credible in my opinion, but that does not escape the confines of subjectivity (i.e. even if you are able to explain yourself better than the other guy, that doesn't make you "right" and him "wrong"). |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| I am OBJECTIVE. I am also a CULTURED GENTLEMAN of a NOBLE HERITAGE, and such, clearly all my tastes are SUPERIOR to that of the uncouth plebeian masses. Anyone that does not share my point of view in any given matter, must thus be OBJECTIVELY WRONG, as well as being MORALLY REPUGNANT and clearly PLEBEIANS of BAD TASTE. |
| I get more objective as my anime list keep growing. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I like to think I'm objective with subjective kick knacks. If I see both there that's an auto win for me. On the flip side if one is present at a time, or neither, then I'll be sure to make mental notes so I know I won't go around creating delusional imagery to people who haven't seen it yet. |
| Anybody who legitimately considers themselves to be objective is a plebeian of the highest order. Or just some kind of tryhard, really. Objective statement: The sky is blue. OR Veronin is a brilliant young lad with an IQ of 200. Subjective statement: The sky is blue, thus it is pretty. OR Veronin is a dunce. There are specific criteria in visual media that one can objectively analyze but it is clouded by a large layer of subjectivity. For example, you could objectively state that the animation of an anime is low quality because of its low frame-rate and frequently off-model faces. However, stating that the anime is shit because of its poor production would be a subjective interpretation. If somebody can disagree, it is not objective. Objective is factual. It's not an opinion on a piece of entertainment. You can be a critic, but you can not be objective. |
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| I think the people here that are discussing, even instilling, the idea of a purely objective attitude towards Anime is either brain damaged or trolling so hard a bridge has constructed itself upon them. The idea of pure objectivity is irrelevant, since it does not exist, and the second you do give it relevance it becomes your subjective tool of argument. There ARE in fact pointed out, ironed, and harden guidelines of quality. Be it they are set by subjective humans but they are a means to define things objectively, thus a LEGITIMATE objective stance exist; as objective as it gets folk. |
| I hate these two words. |
Ambertastic said: Do you hate them objectively or subjectively?I hate these two words. |
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| but thats how you see objectivity is subjective point of view <trollface> |
JeycoppFeb 28, 2013 10:03 PM
Veronin said: Nope, subjective.Veronin is a brilliant young lad with an IQ of 200. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
miereneronaile said: No. Adjectives like "brilliant" or "young" are incomprehensible without a comparison. We only understand it out of cultural context. On the other hand, adjectives like "blue" can be linked to an physical phenomenon (e.g. 450-495nm wavelength light), so it can be objective.katsucats said: Not really. An IQ of 200 is objectively brilliant.Veronin said: Nope, subjective.Veronin is a brilliant young lad with an IQ of 200. With regards to your definitions, define "considerably". An alien with IQ of 10,000 would say you're wrong. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
miereneronaile said: Then you would no longer understand the definition of "blue"./Shrug. Some people see blue differently to others, sorry. Or I could just go right ahead and say that I no longer accept that 'blue' means that. miereneronaile said: It doesn't matter who disagrees, the definition of a word is an analytical fact, it's true by definition. As long as one person can disagree, it cant be objective. Sorry. /Shrug. miereneronaile said: Err... It's easier to type "too late" then scrolling back and pressing delete.(You are taking it a bit to far, is my point, but I guess you are technically correct) (Also, that first bit was intentionally as stupid and ridiculous as I could make it, please dont take it seriously) |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
miereneronaile said: Blue is defined as a spectrum of light. How you perceive it is irrelevant.katsucats said: I have no idea what your last bit there is about, but since you seem to have disregarded the whole dont take it seriously part..miereneronaile said: Then you would no longer understand the definition of "blue"./Shrug. Some people see blue differently to others, sorry. Or I could just go right ahead and say that I no longer accept that 'blue' means that. miereneronaile said: It doesn't matter who disagrees, the definition of a word is an analytical fact, it's true by definition. As long as one person can disagree, it cant be objective. Sorry. /Shrug. miereneronaile said: Err... It's easier to type "too late" then scrolling back and pressing delete.(You are taking it a bit to far, is my point, but I guess you are technically correct) (Also, that first bit was intentionally as stupid and ridiculous as I could make it, please dont take it seriously) Maybe an Alien with 10000 IQ... fuck it, maybe god is in fact fucking with your perception of things and what you understand blue to be is not in fact what we understand blue to be. Prove me wrong, why dont you? miereneronaile said: Also, if everyone disagreed on the meaning of a word, the word would have no meaning 0o. It obviously does matter. Im pretty sure you are fully aware of that though, so im not sure why you said something that stupid. miereneronaile said: Stop...grasping...at...straws...As long as one person can disagree, it cant be objective. Sorry. /Shrug. miereneronaile said: Does that mean I have to accept the rest of the post? I didn't disregard it.In case you have not noticed yet though, I admitted before that you were technically right about the use of the word brilliant. (Though I am sure you are going to totally disregard this, I am being silly now, because I accepted you are right. ) |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
miereneronaile said: Also, if everyone disagreed on the meaning of a word, the word would have no meaning 0o. It obviously does matter. In some situations it does, but not all. The thing with the color blue is that it is defined by basic observation and science. It's not merely a word. If somebody disagrees with the statement of the sky being blue, then they either have eyesight problems or are being illogical. This makes the problem theirs and theirs alone. |
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| Just talking about anime, no one can absolutely objective. There are some conventions for storytelling, art, and animation that are generally agreed upon to be good, but even then there is no full objectivity; for every person criticizing an anime for having plot holes or poor characters or what have you, you'll have a fan offering their own explanation of why those things are actually good. And not every one agrees on these conventions. I believe that whatever small amount of objectivity people are capable of is based on these conventions, and that people can recognize when something violates them while still being entertained. Hence the existence of the term "guilty pleasure". |
dzejkobz said: Are you Objective or Subjective? What do you guys think about these? Is it okay for you if someones giving 10/10 score to something (you thinik) that is shit and gives 6/10 score to something (you think) that is awsome and deserve max score? Lets have a discussion! I do a bit both in the end its all based on your opinion |
Jovoo said: IntroverTurtle said: dperolio said: And the way you see characters and plot is clearly objective.Jovoo said: yhunata said: Jovoo said: I'm always objective. When I'm not, I outright say so. Same for my list, if I'm biased towards a certain show, I say so in the tags. Your ratings, however objective you may think it may be, is still based on your opinions, therefore, they are subjective. Actually not quite. I always try to take into consideration the 4 basic principles (characters, animation, plot, enjoyment) and I rate all my anime that way. Those that are not rated in that way are promptly mentioned that they are not so. Enjoyment is clearly objective. Enjoyment is not objective, but that is one factor out of four. That alone does not hinder my overall opinion. And yes, the way I see characters and plot is objective. Not to sound cocky, but I've read a lot of literature, and I know what makes a good character/plot. Code Geass is subjectively my favorite anime, but I know for a fact that that show has a lot of flaws (which i could state in an instant). And that goes for almost every show I've watched. Doesn't matter, still your opinions. Therefore, subjective. |
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| I rate objectively. Eva is objectively mediocre, Steins;Gate is objectively overrated and Madoka is objectively the greatest anime of all time |
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dzejkobz said: Are you Objective or Subjective? What do you guys think about these? Is it okay for you if someones giving 10/10 score to something (you thinik) that is shit and gives 6/10 score to something (you think) that is awsome and deserve max score? Lets have a discussion! To me objective. In others bye, bye, opinion. I rate what the Series offer within the current amount of episodes. For example, if the Story is flat and simple: 4/10. Does it mean it's atrocious? No, it means the Story isn't the strong point series or wasn't heavily focus. Most over-top action has this type of rating to me. Even the worst anime may score 9/10 on Story. The reason that it's mostly story driven or the series mostly focus on it. The only thing I consider subjective is your standard not your score. The reason I score, is I want to see quantity efforts with quality effects. Although this too, is flaw rating style. |
TookMe6YearsMar 1, 2013 6:38 PM
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| While nothing is completely objective you can be somewhat objective by not ignoring what you consider a flaw in whatever you're watching, and it's not even that hard despite what some on here claim. |
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KoyomiOniisan said: yokaii said: And yeah I don't really mind if someone rates Mawaru Penguindrum a 2, cause you know it's called opinion, but we probably won't get along very well. I like the way you're thinking. Honestly, to be entirely objective there would need to be a set of criteria that could be rated for every anime independent of genre which would render the rating meaningless. But then again, that is my subjective opinion. said by a one piece fanboy |
| Sword in hand, a warrior clutches stone to breast. In sword etched he his fading memories In stone, his tempered skill By sword attested, by stone revealed. Their tale can now be told |
| Well it would be nice if there is a new way to rate something in general. Like a Pie Chart. Telling what this show will mostly present. An example. Story 32% Character: 13% Art: 45% Action: 10% Total percentage wise 100%. By base on reading this you can conclude that it will not have a lot of action and character development. A man can dream. |
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Tommk said: KoyomiOniisan said: yokaii said: And yeah I don't really mind if someone rates Mawaru Penguindrum a 2, cause you know it's called opinion, but we probably won't get along very well. I like the way you're thinking. Honestly, to be entirely objective there would need to be a set of criteria that could be rated for every anime independent of genre which would render the rating meaningless. But then again, that is my subjective opinion. said by a one piece fanboy wait what how |
SquadmemberRitsu said: I rate objectively. Eva is objectively mediocre, Steins;Gate is objectively overrated and Madoka is objectively the greatest anime of all time And you objectively have shit taste. |
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Shrabster said: While nothing is completely objective you can be somewhat objective by not ignoring what you consider a flaw in whatever you're watching, and it's not even that hard despite what some on here claim. Why do you assume that being objective means noticing flaws and acting in consequence? I've seen this argument other times, but still, these flaws are still perceived, and are part of a personal judgement, therefore in their basis there isn't really anything that relates them to objectivity. And ignoring them is not even as negative and unfair as you are making it look, there is not really a balance between qualities and flaws when you come to analyze something, but a show can play its cards right and put enough emphasis on its qualities to diminish the effect of its weaker points. And that, if anything, is a merit. |
| Why don't we just be honest and admit that 90% of MAL have no idea what objective or subjective means? We MAL should do is recommend people rate based on informed opinion, and be able to evaluate elements that factor into a decision to rate. These evaluations are completely subjective, but not without merit -- the myth that all opinions should be given the same merit is what drives people to latch onto "objectivity". The correct word for this situation is "consistency". |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
jal90 said: Shrabster said: While nothing is completely objective you can be somewhat objective by not ignoring what you consider a flaw in whatever you're watching, and it's not even that hard despite what some on here claim. Why do you assume that being objective means noticing flaws and acting in consequence? I've seen this argument other times, but still, these flaws are still perceived, and are part of a personal judgement, therefore in their basis there isn't really anything that relates them to objectivity. And ignoring them is not even as negative and unfair as you are making it look, there is not really a balance between qualities and flaws when you come to analyze something, but a show can play its cards right and put enough emphasis on its qualities to diminish the effect of its weaker points. And that, if anything, is a merit. Because you're taking what you perceive as a flaw to task and not ignoring it based on your subjective enjoyment. So it is objective in the sense that you don't let your bias and enjoyment completely skewer your rating. I love Gundam Wing and it is one my favorite anime, however it does not deserve a 10 in my opinion based on what I perceived to be flaws in the series. It is still mostly based on subjectivity since it's what I saw as flaws and other people may not, but remember I said somewhat. Also plot holes and reused animation aren't flaws that are really subjective. |
ShrabsterMar 2, 2013 3:42 AM
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| ^When did I say that? My "bias" of enjoyment is driven by a quality or group of qualities in the show, therefore it is up to me to decide which relevance I give to each element. What I don't believe is that rating is such a mechanical thing: "This is good ----> +1, this is bad ----> -1". Just no. katsucats said: Why don't we just be honest and admit that 90% of MAL have no idea what objective or subjective means? We MAL should do is recommend people rate based on informed opinion, and be able to evaluate elements that factor into a decision to rate. These evaluations are completely subjective, but not without merit -- the myth that all opinions should be given the same merit is what drives people to latch onto "objectivity". The correct word for this situation is "consistency". All opinions concerning perception of art should be given the same merit. Don't mistake a bad opinion with a poor or insufficient writing of it. In art everything is perfectly defendable using the right set of words. |
jal90 said: Wrong. Opinions should be given merit depending on how well they are defended through rigorous observation and rationalization. An opinion that lacks thought is personality that lacks substance. It should be discouraged. Opinions that are defended are worth merit of consideration.katsucats said: All opinions concerning perception of art should be given the same merit. Don't mistake a bad opinion with a poor or insufficient writing of it. In art everything is perfectly defendable using the right set of words.Why don't we just be honest and admit that 90% of MAL have no idea what objective or subjective means? We MAL should do is recommend people rate based on informed opinion, and be able to evaluate elements that factor into a decision to rate. These evaluations are completely subjective, but not without merit -- the myth that all opinions should be given the same merit is what drives people to latch onto "objectivity". The correct word for this situation is "consistency". Theoretically, every opinion is defendable provided their authors are enlightened on the process he used to arrive at the conclusion. If a man wants to assert, "Black people are stupid," I would accept it if he presented compelling argument. If the man gives the same opinion with no elaboration, then his opinion is worthless. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: jal90 said: Wrong. Opinions should be given merit depending on how well they are defended through rigorous observation and rationalization. An opinion that lacks thought is personality that lacks substance. It should be discouraged. Opinions that are defended are worth merit of consideration.katsucats said: All opinions concerning perception of art should be given the same merit. Don't mistake a bad opinion with a poor or insufficient writing of it. In art everything is perfectly defendable using the right set of words.Why don't we just be honest and admit that 90% of MAL have no idea what objective or subjective means? We MAL should do is recommend people rate based on informed opinion, and be able to evaluate elements that factor into a decision to rate. These evaluations are completely subjective, but not without merit -- the myth that all opinions should be given the same merit is what drives people to latch onto "objectivity". The correct word for this situation is "consistency". Theoretically, every opinion is defendable provided their authors are enlightened on the process he used to arrive at the conclusion. If a man wants to assert, "Black people are stupid," I would accept it if he presented compelling argument. If the man gives the same opinion with no elaboration, then his opinion is worthless. Where are we disagreeing, then? Just because we word it differently doesn't mean that we aren't saying the same thing, lol. |
jal90 said: I believe my position is quite objective. If all opinions are really given the same merit, then reviewing something would be pointless. I don't think any person in the world trusts every assertion of subjective value equally.katsucats said: jal90 said: Wrong. Opinions should be given merit depending on how well they are defended through rigorous observation and rationalization. An opinion that lacks thought is personality that lacks substance. It should be discouraged. Opinions that are defended are worth merit of consideration.katsucats said: All opinions concerning perception of art should be given the same merit. Don't mistake a bad opinion with a poor or insufficient writing of it. In art everything is perfectly defendable using the right set of words.Why don't we just be honest and admit that 90% of MAL have no idea what objective or subjective means? We MAL should do is recommend people rate based on informed opinion, and be able to evaluate elements that factor into a decision to rate. These evaluations are completely subjective, but not without merit -- the myth that all opinions should be given the same merit is what drives people to latch onto "objectivity". The correct word for this situation is "consistency". Theoretically, every opinion is defendable provided their authors are enlightened on the process he used to arrive at the conclusion. If a man wants to assert, "Black people are stupid," I would accept it if he presented compelling argument. If the man gives the same opinion with no elaboration, then his opinion is worthless. Where are we disagreeing, then? Just because we word it differently doesn't mean that we aren't saying the same thing, lol. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
DateYutaka said: Your ratings might be considered objective if they were based completely off #2: TV Ratings, but nevertheless, the mere suggestion that an anime should be valued based on its TV ratings would be 100% subjective. None of your other criteria can be directly compared to a 1 to 10 scale rating, so you cannot possibly use them without subjective interpretation. Therefore, at most 9% of your rating system is based on facts, if you're lucky.75% of my ratings system is based on Facts witch are not debatable over all |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: jal90 said: I believe my position is quite objective. If all opinions are really given the same merit, then reviewing something would be pointless. I don't think any person in the world trusts every assertion of subjective value equally.katsucats said: jal90 said: Wrong. Opinions should be given merit depending on how well they are defended through rigorous observation and rationalization. An opinion that lacks thought is personality that lacks substance. It should be discouraged. Opinions that are defended are worth merit of consideration.katsucats said: All opinions concerning perception of art should be given the same merit. Don't mistake a bad opinion with a poor or insufficient writing of it. In art everything is perfectly defendable using the right set of words.Why don't we just be honest and admit that 90% of MAL have no idea what objective or subjective means? We MAL should do is recommend people rate based on informed opinion, and be able to evaluate elements that factor into a decision to rate. These evaluations are completely subjective, but not without merit -- the myth that all opinions should be given the same merit is what drives people to latch onto "objectivity". The correct word for this situation is "consistency". Theoretically, every opinion is defendable provided their authors are enlightened on the process he used to arrive at the conclusion. If a man wants to assert, "Black people are stupid," I would accept it if he presented compelling argument. If the man gives the same opinion with no elaboration, then his opinion is worthless. Where are we disagreeing, then? Just because we word it differently doesn't mean that we aren't saying the same thing, lol. Then what are you trying to say? It seems that you contradict yourself with each post. I said that opinions should be given the same merit, on the basis that there is nothing that makes them inherently better. I also said, however, that being able to defend them is what gives them value, regardless of the content. Which is surprisingly similar to your second post, but somehow different to your first and third :P. |
jal90 said: Unless you can differentiate "merit" and "value" in this context, you're the one contradicting yourself.katsucats said: jal90 said: I believe my position is quite objective. If all opinions are really given the same merit, then reviewing something would be pointless. I don't think any person in the world trusts every assertion of subjective value equally.katsucats said: jal90 said: Wrong. Opinions should be given merit depending on how well they are defended through rigorous observation and rationalization. An opinion that lacks thought is personality that lacks substance. It should be discouraged. Opinions that are defended are worth merit of consideration.katsucats said: All opinions concerning perception of art should be given the same merit. Don't mistake a bad opinion with a poor or insufficient writing of it. In art everything is perfectly defendable using the right set of words.Why don't we just be honest and admit that 90% of MAL have no idea what objective or subjective means? We MAL should do is recommend people rate based on informed opinion, and be able to evaluate elements that factor into a decision to rate. These evaluations are completely subjective, but not without merit -- the myth that all opinions should be given the same merit is what drives people to latch onto "objectivity". The correct word for this situation is "consistency". Theoretically, every opinion is defendable provided their authors are enlightened on the process he used to arrive at the conclusion. If a man wants to assert, "Black people are stupid," I would accept it if he presented compelling argument. If the man gives the same opinion with no elaboration, then his opinion is worthless. Where are we disagreeing, then? Just because we word it differently doesn't mean that we aren't saying the same thing, lol. Then what are you trying to say? It seems that you contradict yourself with each post. I said that opinions should be given the same merit, on the basis that there is nothing that makes them inherently better. I also said, however, that being able to defend them is what gives them value, regardless of the content. Which is surprisingly similar to your second post, but somehow different to your first and third :P. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
jal90 said: ^When did I say that? My "bias" of enjoyment is driven by a quality or group of qualities in the show, therefore it is up to me to decide which relevance I give to each element. What I don't believe is that rating is such a mechanical thing: "This is good ----> +1, this is bad ----> -1". Just no. All opinions concerning perception of art should be given the same merit. Don't mistake a bad opinion with a poor or insufficient writing of it. In art everything is perfectly defendable using the right set of words. When did you say what? You asked me to explain "Why do you assume that being objective means noticing flaws and acting in consequence?", which the definition of objective that I'm using and understanding it as is "removing personal bias", is that same definition you're using just so we're clear? I explained that you can put your bias (though not completely, because some flaws are subjective which I think we can agree on) aside to rate something. It's not a mechanical +1, -1, system. You're just not letting subjective bias override logical thinking. |
ShrabsterMar 2, 2013 4:08 AM
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