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| I really disliked how the "big secret" behind the plan was the computer override. You telling me that the only weapon that made Iserlohn impenetrable could have been easily threatened by a simple computer override or an interference in the communications? Wow.. How did noone (not even the imperiales who MADE this fortress) knew about this before? Only for that, I give this episode a 4/5 (Otherwise a 5/5). |
Dr_Manhattan95 said: I really disliked how the "big secret" behind the plan was the computer override. You telling me that the only weapon that made Iserlohn impenetrable could have been easily threatened by a simple computer override or an interference in the communications? Wow.. How did noone (not even the imperiales who MADE this fortress) knew about this before? Only for that, I give this episode a 4/5 (Otherwise a 5/5). Yeah that's a very confusing part of this battle, the Empire should at least learn how to "scan virus" for every month or something lol. But i've rewatched the show a few days ago, when Yang Wenli abandoned the fortress during the previous battle with Reuenthal (episode 46), he made a backup plan (setting virus or overriding device something), and covered it with another diversional trap (bomb) so the Empire side will focus on looking for the bomb without noticing the real trap. BUT when i check again, Reuenthal did noticed something was amiss as the bomb trap was too easy for him to realize, he knew Yang is a badass and very tricky tactician, but the man decided to turn a blind eye on it, check the following screenshot i took on episode 46: So we can see that Reuenthal saw through Yang Wenli plan (more like he had a hunch about it), but he didn't give a damn about that since it's not his responsibility for what happen afterwards LOL (his job was only to take the Irselohn down, not keeping it safe), and he would gladly take anything that's offered to him (who doesn't like free stuff right). Therefore, Irselohn Fortress let their guard down since Reuenthal said it'd safe, hence the downfall in this episode. But knowing Reuenthal's hunger for battle nature, i think there's a more meaning behind this, he wanted Yang Wenli's side to prevail so he can have a reason to fight, hence he let Yang Wenli go easily and ignoring the potential "bug" within the fortress: After all those incident in episode 46 i guess you can see who's to be blame for the the failure on the Empire side at this episode lol. |
| one of the best episodes so far. made me worry, made laugh, made me feel amazed, all in one. MAGNIFICENT!!!! |
| :v |
| for fucks sake my blood is boiling with hatred for this atrocious writing. I say it now: Sword Art Online is better written in any way. This is the very definition of garbage. When I started this I was full of hope for something great, since I always liked the old animation style for space and mecha, the biggest down side most people tell you when they recommend this is was quite the opposite for me. Also the OST is great, classical tunes fit space operas like nothing else. But the writing. Just no. No you dont check your computer systems after the enemy had it for an entire year and GAVE IT UP. No you dont burn everything down they touched and replace it with new equipment. No you dont make use of your ONE MILLION soldiers inside the fortress. Because "Rosenritters plot armour". You just dont take something like this, which is not just supposed to once again show how tactic and logic does not matter when alliance forces are involved and make you look cool, but in fact serves the plot later on (gaining a better position for peace negotiations) WITHOUT ANY LOSSES. Not the 16 year old boy without any close combat experience, not the pilot with again no close combat experience, not the "ARRRR ROSENRITTER" Schenkopp with more plot armour then I ever saw in any garbage shounen anime. Not even the boys black bodyguard which you could use for character developement. I can ignore the absolute garbage battle magic in this anime, (even when that alone disqualifies it for a 10/10 anime) but not the "nothing is at stake" writing when Yangs magic boys are involved. And no, an empire with billions of people has not just rookie soldiers. There should be atleast one equal to the Rosenritter-plot-device. You cant go on for 70 episodes and make the rebel side not loose anything. Remember Star Wars? Even those rebels lost something. Schenkopp just discovered he has a daughter and how convenient there is another major battle taking place - Maybe atleast injure him? Plot? Character developement? logic? The fuck is this shit. I want my time back. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| One of the lowest point of the anime: a small army able to charge in and defeat an enemy times bigger. This is the main problem of this animation: cheesy battles and poor execution. |
| Iserlohn returned to the Yang's hands!!! |
| How the hell that small amount of soilders could win. |
Str8-Flexin said: dethbed said: I'm beginning to find the close combat portions of LoGH quite tiresome, its like every single time the Imperial troops are useless despite numbers being a great advantage in close quarters. And I find it pretty stupid that the Empire has no soldiers skilled in hand to hand combat, it feels like a form of plot armor rather than legitimate skill or tactics on Yang's side. I really don't feel much for the Alliance side any more, ever since Reinhard took control Yang's victories just feel like they are happening not because Yang is skilled, more that the series must keep him and his unit alive at all costs. This. The plot armor is getting fucking real. I expected better from this anime. I'm sure it will get better again, but damn this is just getting ridiculous. Honestly can't stand the alliance at all now and Merkatz makes my blood boil. The Rosen Ritter was introduced as the most lethal combat regime among the entire FPA, if not, the whole universe. I don't see any problem with them picking up the fodders that easily. Empire soldiers are known for slacking up a lot, plus they didn't expect to get hit by a small group of tough dog elites there. And as I mentioned on previous comment, the entire fortress is super huge, they have to distribute the soldiers in the manner that they're capable of protecting every single hole in the fort, so it's obvious that it would take a lot of time to regroup when the Rosen Ritter struck. Think of the RR as a moving choke point, no matter how many mobs you bring they'll get chopped down in less than a second. |
CzeroCMar 13, 2018 8:06 AM
| Oh, so that was Yang's "surprise". Nice; although I would've preferred it if the re-take-iserlohn operation has been more dramatic, with less hand to hand combat. |
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| Impressive how they got all those decorations up in that HUGE command bridge in the Alliance ship. They must really love New Year's parties to go to all that trouble. |
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| A lot of people in this thread seem to be complaining about the Rosenritters being "overpowered" compared to the Imperial soldiers, and the lack of good close combat warriors from the Imperial side. Did everyone just forget Ovlesser? He was a huge trouble back in 797 (only 3 years ago) for Reuenthal and Mittermeyer and was incredibly skilled with his axe. Also, should I remind that the Imperial soldiers with axes are not some "special forces" (Rosenritters, on the other hand, are)? They're just regular soldiers with proper ammunition suited for fightning with axes. This alone doesn't (and shouldn't) make them incredibly good in close combat. Moreover, given the fact that most battles occure NOT in person, and that close combat is pretty rare (judging by what we've seen so far), it's not surprising that we don't see great axe fighters from the Empire. They just don't have much need in them, and not enough time and real battles to train these people. I should also point out that the numerical advantage posessed by the Imperial soldiers in this episode couldn't be used properly due to the specific structure of the fighting location. Swinging too many axes in a narrow corridor at the same time is really not the best idea you can come up with, so attacking in waves is only natural. Hence the advantage in skill and morale is what really matters here, and Rosenritters are clearly on the winning side. |
St0rmbladeMar 29, 2019 1:58 PM
| Whew, haven't seen this much salt in a LoGH episodic discussion before. Here's my take: As far as justifying melee combat in space, I prefer LoGH's Seffle Particles over Dune's personal shielding. The power required to maintain shielding would be insane and unfeasible to carry on oneself. If it was possible, then weapons would have been invented to be able to overcome the shields. Filling the air was something akin to a gas that combusts when lit by a spark is straightforward and solid, though if any of those colliding axes created sparks that could set off the particles. It also begs the question as to why doesn't everyone just have shields on all the time. Furthermore, shielding has the innate problem that you know the characters aren't in any danger until the writer decides that their shields fail. RWBY in particular suffers from this problem with Aura, which reduces battles from tense, edge of your seat exchanges where anything can happen at any time to just a matter of waiting until the shields fail before anything can happen, by which point the battle is already over. I do agree that despite Iserlohn being invaded by hundreds of ships and thousands of troops, it somewhat begins to stretch suspension of disbelief to see Julian, Poplan, and the Rosenritters be the ones to be the heroes who hack the core and then are the first to make it to the command room. Yes, the Rosenritters would've done it regardless of whether or not Julian and Poplan came and Yang would've been justified in telling Julian the plan, even ordering him to input the codes, but it's somewhat starting to feel like they're doing everything important. I suppose that's the consequences of long continuities, where the protagonists inevitably manage to experience more adventure and warfare than any other human being in history. Naruto and Luffy fought more battles than most soldiers ever saw in human history. The crew of the USS Enterprise have gone on so many incredible adventures - being flung across the galaxy, saving Earth from the Borg, saving Earth from a temporal anomaly, battling a giant alien that devours worlds, installing new members on the Klingon High Council, foiling the Romulan's plots - that at some point it begins to feel like the universe bends around them. I see LoGH is trying to avoid this, as Julian did not encounter any of our Empire characters while on Odin. Earlier in the series, new Empire admirals were introduced who headed operations, such as Kempf and Muller at Geiersberg, or Lennekempf on Heinessen. If they had done that for the infantry detachment that took the computer core and reached the command center (possibly focusing on Schenkopf's second in command who we rarely see while Schnkompf himself held the line), it'd reinforce the illusion that the world exists outside our protagonists. On a similar note, perhaps one way to further flesh out the world would have been to establish multiple elite infantry corps in the LoGH setting. So far, the only named corps are the Rossenritters consisting of Schenkopf. Everyone else is just cannon fodder. Now, the story had two opportunities to establish elite corps to look out for: one, during Mittermeyer's and Reunthal's flashback early in the series that detailed how they met, and how they were making their last stand in the snow against FPA soldiers. The second is when Mittermeyer and Reunthal invaded Geiersberg. Perhaps we could've heard about how the two had no chance of standing against the fearsome 32nd Alliance Infantry Division, or how Mittermeyer and Reunthal used to be apart of the renowned Imperial Crusaders, etc. This would plant the seeds in the audience's mind, and when the time came to invade Iserlohn in this episode, the story could've brought those divisions back and the audience would've gone "oh crap". Would've been even more tense if it was battle between two secondary or new characters, as suggested in the above paragraph. |
| This fucking sucked. Worst episode of LoGH. Why does this series make any Imperial troop look like dumb asses? The Alliance's plot armor is beyond ridiculous. Fuck them Why didn't Reinhard directly communicate with Lutz via a screen medium or something? After five contradicting letters fuck with your mind and you do nothing. I'm in disbelief at how bad the writer makes Imperial troops look. It's ridiculous. Also I like how people in this thread are creating fanfic justifications for this episode's story. |
KladMay 23, 2019 2:15 PM
| Yang's side is pretty smart because when the enemy is confused, they can't think straight and made rash decision And they lost Iserlohn once again I don't think Reinhard even expect to lose Iserlohn Fortress Now only Phezzan left if they can acquire it then Empire is cut from each other |
Rayl1ghtNov 17, 2019 1:13 AM
"Signature removed"   |
| The close combat scenes were awesome as always, maybe a bit too one sided, tho. And we finally got to see Yang's surprise. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| You have to be a pretty huge fanboy to defend this awful writing, which is way below older shonen space operas like the original Gundam series. Yang consistently defeating the empire with second-class tricks is just tiresome, and this time he relied on their sheer incompetence: Lutz not being a greedy imbecile would have been enough to foil his whole plan, while him finding his souvenir earlier that year would have been catastrophic. And the mere existence of Rosenritters destroying their opposition in unexciting and predictable axe skirmishes is awful, no matter how well established their martial superiority is. Why can't they show competent and/or likeable imperial soldiers? Where are those two imperial artillery guys from the very first episode? Then again, if after 70 episodes you're still expecting engaging battles and clever tactics, you're not a learning animal. |
HeirofZorMay 8, 2020 11:24 AM
Comander-07 said: for fucks sake my blood is boiling with hatred for this atrocious writing. I say it now: Sword Art Online is better written in any way. This is the very definition of garbage. When I started this I was full of hope for something great, since I always liked the old animation style for space and mecha, the biggest down side most people tell you when they recommend this is was quite the opposite for me. Also the OST is great, classical tunes fit space operas like nothing else. But the writing. Just no. No you dont check your computer systems after the enemy had it for an entire year and GAVE IT UP. No you dont burn everything down they touched and replace it with new equipment. No you dont make use of your ONE MILLION soldiers inside the fortress. Because "Rosenritters plot armour". You just dont take something like this, which is not just supposed to once again show how tactic and logic does not matter when alliance forces are involved and make you look cool, but in fact serves the plot later on (gaining a better position for peace negotiations) WITHOUT ANY LOSSES. Not the 16 year old boy without any close combat experience, not the pilot with again no close combat experience, not the "ARRRR ROSENRITTER" Schenkopp with more plot armour then I ever saw in any garbage shounen anime. Not even the boys black bodyguard which you could use for character developement. I can ignore the absolute garbage battle magic in this anime, (even when that alone disqualifies it for a 10/10 anime) but not the "nothing is at stake" writing when Yangs magic boys are involved. And no, an empire with billions of people has not just rookie soldiers. There should be atleast one equal to the Rosenritter-plot-device. You cant go on for 70 episodes and make the rebel side not loose anything. Remember Star Wars? Even those rebels lost something. Schenkopp just discovered he has a daughter and how convenient there is another major battle taking place - Maybe atleast injure him? Plot? Character developement? logic? The fuck is this shit. I want my time back. So maybe don't watch it then. |
Vindicater said: I did finish it, it was still an overall enjoyable experience when you consider how grand it is but its so far from a 10/10 its not even funny.Comander-07 said: for fucks sake my blood is boiling with hatred for this atrocious writing. I say it now: Sword Art Online is better written in any way. This is the very definition of garbage. When I started this I was full of hope for something great, since I always liked the old animation style for space and mecha, the biggest down side most people tell you when they recommend this is was quite the opposite for me. Also the OST is great, classical tunes fit space operas like nothing else. But the writing. Just no. No you dont check your computer systems after the enemy had it for an entire year and GAVE IT UP. No you dont burn everything down they touched and replace it with new equipment. No you dont make use of your ONE MILLION soldiers inside the fortress. Because "Rosenritters plot armour". You just dont take something like this, which is not just supposed to once again show how tactic and logic does not matter when alliance forces are involved and make you look cool, but in fact serves the plot later on (gaining a better position for peace negotiations) WITHOUT ANY LOSSES. Not the 16 year old boy without any close combat experience, not the pilot with again no close combat experience, not the "ARRRR ROSENRITTER" Schenkopp with more plot armour then I ever saw in any garbage shounen anime. Not even the boys black bodyguard which you could use for character developement. I can ignore the absolute garbage battle magic in this anime, (even when that alone disqualifies it for a 10/10 anime) but not the "nothing is at stake" writing when Yangs magic boys are involved. And no, an empire with billions of people has not just rookie soldiers. There should be atleast one equal to the Rosenritter-plot-device. You cant go on for 70 episodes and make the rebel side not loose anything. Remember Star Wars? Even those rebels lost something. Schenkopp just discovered he has a daughter and how convenient there is another major battle taking place - Maybe atleast injure him? Plot? Character developement? logic? The fuck is this shit. I want my time back. So maybe don't watch it then. What is funny hoever is how 4 years later people still get triggered over criticism of this show. |
Comander-07Aug 26, 2021 12:29 PM
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| this isn't enjoyable anymore yang and friends = invincible everyone else a shit where's the suspense, this is as bad as an 80s american cartoon designed to sell action figures |
 |
| 200 IQ scheme as expected of Yang. |
| lol ppl are genuinely upset at this episode but after I read some of the ppls responses , I do agree: Yang and his "invincibility" has too strong plot armor |
 |
| This is by far the worst episode I've watched for all the reasons already mentioned by everyone with more than 2 neurons. I just understood the purpose of using crossbows to counter the impossibility to use guns while zephyr particles float in the air, I'm a bit ashamed to only realyze now and its actually quite clever but still their use of crossbow was cleary not justified since at no point we see any zephyr particles generator thingy being used but I don't care that much about that. Yang Wen-Li's "gift" is a bit of mixed bag for me since its kinda justified by the fact that it was kinda hidden by the bombs and its kinda not because aren't they supposed to check if the fucking big laser that makes the fortress impenetrable work correctly and is not trapped or just change every fucking computer in the 1 year they had. But by far the biggest problem was the Rosenritters, everytime I see them on screen I feel the urge to skip, the outcome is just obvious, they just keep on winning and visually we do not see them suffer any loss even if this time they had 2 newbies soldier with them, they just slightly struggled. This episode is very frustrating. |
WashmaButtMar 12, 2022 10:58 PM
| to be honest. only because it's probably yang's plan i cannot understand it. he's lecturing so many times about value of life, but he doesn't care using the thor hammer against the empire in this kind of way. in the right mind he would order to fire the thor hammer only when 90% of the imperial fleet would be out of range. i know yang would say that's sacrifice that should be unfortunately made, but that's make him super hypocrite. not to mention that shenchopp is OP in ground battle, he may had one battle at 1st season when he had some hard time. seriously, and it's not the first time i lost faith in yang. it happened in varmilion battle too. what's funnier is presenting us yang's troophies that didn't matter to the plot for me. lol |
| This episode truly leaves an unpleasant feeling. I can't see the reason within the story why we should support Yang's side other than they're good old main characters. There was too much violence for my liking coming from Julian and Poplan, which shouldn't have surprised me considering they are soldiers at war. But at this moment I wonder is there even any point in this war anymore. |
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| Just here to add my comment about Yang and his unfathomable plot armor which is starting to get sooo annoying battle of vermilion was already tiring enough. The thing that annoys me the most though is not the plot armor on yang but how it is extended to his whole squad he gets victory without loss like Reinhard lost Kircheis. I would probable have no issue with it if at the very least Yang took some losses a few ships and a few rosenritter soldiers but oooh no he must get the ultimate victory. |
| I call absolute bullshit for the majority of the episode, especially when all systems conveniently shut down for those specific moments. No amount of foreshadowing can excuse this and Lutz's convenient stupidity. But then again when Yang and crew are involved they carry about 10000 km of plot armour with them at all times. |
ByniavoDec 12, 2022 4:07 AM
 |
Vindicater said: Comander-07 said: for fucks sake my blood is boiling with hatred for this atrocious writing. I say it now: Sword Art Online is better written in any way. This is the very definition of garbage. When I started this I was full of hope for something great, since I always liked the old animation style for space and mecha, the biggest down side most people tell you when they recommend this is was quite the opposite for me. Also the OST is great, classical tunes fit space operas like nothing else. But the writing. Just no. No you dont check your computer systems after the enemy had it for an entire year and GAVE IT UP. No you dont burn everything down they touched and replace it with new equipment. No you dont make use of your ONE MILLION soldiers inside the fortress. Because "Rosenritters plot armour". You just dont take something like this, which is not just supposed to once again show how tactic and logic does not matter when alliance forces are involved and make you look cool, but in fact serves the plot later on (gaining a better position for peace negotiations) WITHOUT ANY LOSSES. Not the 16 year old boy without any close combat experience, not the pilot with again no close combat experience, not the "ARRRR ROSENRITTER" Schenkopp with more plot armour then I ever saw in any garbage shounen anime. Not even the boys black bodyguard which you could use for character developement. I can ignore the absolute garbage battle magic in this anime, (even when that alone disqualifies it for a 10/10 anime) but not the "nothing is at stake" writing when Yangs magic boys are involved. And no, an empire with billions of people has not just rookie soldiers. There should be atleast one equal to the Rosenritter-plot-device. You cant go on for 70 episodes and make the rebel side not loose anything. Remember Star Wars? Even those rebels lost something. Schenkopp just discovered he has a daughter and how convenient there is another major battle taking place - Maybe atleast injure him? Plot? Character developement? logic? The fuck is this shit. I want my time back. So maybe don't watch it then. So maybe open your eyes and realise this shows is good but has major flaws. |
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| Another genius method from Yang, the whole broken computer tactic appears to have worked better than expected. Lutz really was dissapointment to fall after all the confusing orders and allowing thor hammer to do something like that. The axe battle scene brutal as always plus Imperial soldiers slowly losing morale was done right plus the difference in fighting ability of forces really shows, pretty good episode in general |
| 2023 Rewatch |
 Novels I have read/am reading pending approval: since November 10 2022 |
| LOL this was one of the most retarded episodes I have ever seen. And also the same pointless axe battle once more... sigh. They are using entire ship fleets but the weapons are stuck in the stone age. Well, whatever. I can say that the info war was quite interesting, even though its effectiveness is questionable. The Aliance sent those messages with the confidence that the Empire Leaders would fall on this strategy, but I find truly funny that no one in the Empire side considered that ANYBODY could fool their fleet. They are using papers, the most primitive way of message. And not only that; there is no signature or even a Royal Stamp on them confirming the veracity of those commands. Anyways, I'll turn an eye to those and move on to the next episodes. |
 |
| And by the way they took a Fortress in one day... HAHAHAHAHA |
|
Reply to Alpha-Nine
The amount of criticism leveled at this particular episode makes me wonder how would Production IG mitigate at least some of the questionable aspects when they eventually get around to this event in Die Neue These.
That being said, I preferred the final lines in the fansub where Merkatz says "This truly is a new hope." 🙃
Meanwhile, the official subs on HIDIVE have him say "You have to admit, it was an ingenious scheme." 😔
That being said, I preferred the final lines in the fansub where Merkatz says "This truly is a new hope." 🙃
Meanwhile, the official subs on HIDIVE have him say "You have to admit, it was an ingenious scheme." 😔
Alpha-Nine said: Star Wars references couldn't fit any other series better lolThat being said, I preferred the final lines in the fansub where Merkatz says "This truly is a new hope." 🙃 |
|
| This episode. Ugh. The alliance's wins are too freaking easy! And Julian is 16 years old (described as a weak-looking not too long ago) taking out trained Imperial soldiers (in fuil body armor) with single blows. Character is so annoying. I'm digging the world building of the series so I'll def finish it but for as hyped up this anime has always been for space nerds like myself, I wish it depicted all sides on equal footing intellectually, physically and strategically. As it's written now, Yang sits around looking bored or apathetic every episode and things just work out for the Alliance (or the Irregulars) without much effort. And I wish the scale of the losses were felt more. How many people did Thor's Hammer vaporize this episode? Hundreds? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? They say 15,000 ships were in the fortress but I rarely get a sense of that number in the battles. |
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