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Poll: Legend of the Galactic Heroes Episode 70 Discussion


#1
Jun 1, 2008 4:44 PM
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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
So Wang's surprise was a computer override. Guess it pays to always have a contingency plan well in advance. Heads will roll considering the impenetrable fortress has been lost twice now.

...even a saint needs a soldier to do the dirty work.
 
#2
Aug 17, 2008 1:18 PM

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Most people use a battle axe in close combat. Not Mashengo. His weapon of choice is a freaking tree. XD

Now that Yang has Iserlohn, hopefully he'll be able to gather some troops and money to face off against Reinhard again.
 
#3
Nov 6, 2008 6:20 AM

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The close combat is quite ridiculous, I'd agree to that. I remember they used those laser-interfering particle things once (The first time they took the fortress I believe) as an excuse as to why they didn't simply blast away as any normal guy would, but if they can't use their lasers, why don't they use ballistics? Granted, the axe fighting does add some good instances of gore, but it still seems somewhat silly.
At least in Star Wars, the Jedi have superior reflexes and force-heightened senses which makes them effective with their lightsabers, and I assume the cortosis-coated vibroblades in KotOR was intended for use against other lightsaber wielders. But I can't see the reason why the guys in LoGH suddenly brought out axes.

Eigi man ek þá lǫg jómsvikinga ef ek kviði við bana eða mæla ek æðruorð. Eitt sinn skal hverr deyja
 
#4
Nov 6, 2008 7:05 AM

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Well, it does not interfere with laser, it just makes things to explode when laser or normal gun used (heat, flames). In later episode during close combat in building when one of soldiers tries to use his gun, his commrades ask him "if he want to blow us all".
 
#5
Nov 6, 2008 10:09 AM

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What is more, Panzergrenadiers are almost bulletproof ;] Axe is better in this case ;)
 
#6
Nov 9, 2008 6:18 AM

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Depends on what bullets you use though. Also, if they can stand bullets and lasers, then axes should be no problem as well, unless they're vibro-axes or whatnot.
They should be using Heavy Bolters. No problem to carry when they have those power armour. DAKKADAKKADAKKA!

Eigi man ek þá lǫg jómsvikinga ef ek kviði við bana eða mæla ek æðruorð. Eitt sinn skal hverr deyja
 
#7
Nov 9, 2008 9:16 AM

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Baman, I hope that You did not mean Heavy Bolters from WH40K :)
However, your avatar looks like sth familiar for me - maybe NOD mask?:>

My theory was, that those axes were huge and by their mere size they slashed through armor, or in spots where there were connections between parts of armor (it makes sense, because many times there were heads/limbs flying; - during assault on Earth Cultist's base sth similar happened - one of them killed panzergrenadier with knife - hit shoulder.
 
#8
Jan 6, 2009 7:25 AM

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My theory for the hand to hand combat was that the armour deflected bullets, lasers etc. But not much will stand up to an axe. Plus the garrison fleet were demoralised.
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#9
Jun 24, 2009 3:26 PM

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After about a million episodes, Yangs surprise is FINALLY revealed. In actuality, dont you think that the Imperials would check the status of the Thor Hammer almost immediately after regaining the fortress? Yang is so smart, and everyone except Reinhard and his top admirals are so dumb, thats its pretty much a given that any and all of Yangs plans will succeed no matter what.

 
Sep 19, 2009 5:44 PM
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Osaka117 said:
After about a million episodes, Yangs surprise is FINALLY revealed. In actuality, dont you think that the Imperials would check the status of the Thor Hammer almost immediately after regaining the fortress? Yang is so smart, and everyone except Reinhard and his top admirals are so dumb, thats its pretty much a given that any and all of Yangs plans will succeed no matter what.


Well, its possible to create a backdoor so well hidden that is never discovered. This has happened in real life.

What I find weird is that the imperials didn't cut the power supply of the Thor Hammer immediately after they lost control of it. Maybe they hoped to regain control in time.
 
Sep 25, 2009 3:12 PM

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I'm beginning to find the close combat portions of LoGH quite tiresome, its like every single time the Imperial troops are useless despite numbers being a great advantage in close quarters. And I find it pretty stupid that the Empire has no soldiers skilled in hand to hand combat, it feels like a form of plot armor rather than legitimate skill or tactics on Yang's side.

I really don't feel much for the Alliance side any more, ever since Reinhard took control Yang's victories just feel like they are happening not because Yang is skilled, more that the series must keep him and his unit alive at all costs.
 
Oct 25, 2009 8:52 PM

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Well, everyone else may have a problem with the combat scenes but I do like the fact that the close combat scenes do not, in anyway, make war seem beautiful. It's ugly stuff folks, and LOGH has no problem displaying that.
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Nov 17, 2009 9:02 AM

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I think it's pretty clear that the real reason why there is axe fighting is because it looks cool, but as Baman mentioned, there IS a token justification in the form of the zephyr particles.

dethbed's point that much of Yang's success depends on winning numerically unfavourable close combat fights is valid I suppose, but is it that incredible that the elite Rosenritters overcome comparably inexperienced soldiers who are terrified of their reputation? Any old grunt who's gone through military training can fire a rifle with lethal consequences, but presumably melee skills honed in many battles are rather more valuable.
Modified by fedaykin, Nov 17, 2009 9:07 AM
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Nov 17, 2009 6:05 PM

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vvvpqsw said:
Osaka117 said:
After about a million episodes, Yangs surprise is FINALLY revealed. In actuality, dont you think that the Imperials would check the status of the Thor Hammer almost immediately after regaining the fortress? Yang is so smart, and everyone except Reinhard and his top admirals are so dumb, thats its pretty much a given that any and all of Yangs plans will succeed no matter what.


Well, its possible to create a backdoor so well hidden that is never discovered. This has happened in real life.

What I find weird is that the imperials didn't cut the power supply of the Thor Hammer immediately after they lost control of it. Maybe they hoped to regain control in time.

This isn't feasible. Remember that they LOST control of Thor Hammer completel, including power supplies for it.
 
Jan 16, 2010 2:53 AM

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Osaka117 said:
In actuality, dont you think that the Imperials would check the status of the Thor Hammer almost immediately after regaining the fortress? .


maybe they would've if they knew exactly what problem they were looking for. Upon inspection they might have found everything in perfect working order and not come across any problems. And we have all sorts of examples where hackers have hoodwinked tight securities and got away with it.
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Jan 17, 2010 10:50 PM

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So THAT was the thing Yang left behind when he abandoned Iserlohn. Brilliant. I was also thinking the same thing as some of the stationed men; Why go and take hold of one room when it would be the right thing to go straight for the bridge? What also took me back to that moment was that look on Bagdash's face once he sent that message about tea to Iserlohn. I was confused and skeptical as to why he would send such a seemingly useless message after finally drawing out Iserlohn's Stationed Fleet until the Thor Hammer failed to respond. Again, this was a truly brilliant move on Yang's part by having that backdoor set up.
 
Jan 24, 2010 3:30 AM

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awesome episode)
it was expected that that man will commit suicide..
anyway cant wait for Reinhard's reactions
 
Jun 19, 2010 6:06 PM

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Finally we get to know Yangs "surprise" he left in Iserlohn. Poor Lutz, his reputation will go down the drain after letting Yang capture the fortress a second time (even if this time it wasn't without anyone dying).
I wonder if the Alliance politicians will let Yang join his buddies on Iserlohn now or if they're still pussies.
Modified by Pullman, Oct 29, 2010 7:43 PM


StephenCovey said:
Most of us don't listen with the intent to understand, they listen with the intent to reply.


 
Aug 22, 2010 11:35 AM

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dethbed said:
I'm beginning to find the close combat portions of LoGH quite tiresome, its like every single time the Imperial troops are useless despite numbers being a great advantage in close quarters. And I find it pretty stupid that the Empire has no soldiers skilled in hand to hand combat, it feels like a form of plot armor rather than legitimate skill or tactics on Yang's side.

I really don't feel much for the Alliance side any more, ever since Reinhard took control Yang's victories just feel like they are happening not because Yang is skilled, more that the series must keep him and his unit alive at all costs.

This.
 
Sep 28, 2010 2:47 PM
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naikou said:
Most people use a battle axe in close combat. Not Mashengo. His weapon of choice is a freaking tree. XD

Now that Yang has Iserlohn, hopefully he'll be able to gather some troops and money to face off against Reinhard again.


lol yeah, that was hilarious. Reminds me of the moutain giants in War3 TFT.

I think it's pretty clear that the real reason why there is axe fighting is because it looks cool, but as Baman mentioned, there IS a token justification in the form of the zephyr particles.


Lol I can't believe people still didn't understand that after 70 episodes. If they shot, everything will explode.

 
Oct 27, 2010 1:35 PM

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wow this is the first time seing Julian killing a person with such cold blood...i mean on his space scooter thingy it's a thing but when you behead someone with an axe...xD

another amazing episode,i think it would get into my top 15 lotgh episodes :)
so Yang has Isserlohn again..i'm actually starting to think he has a chance on this :D

5/5

PS:btw who was the guy that commited suicide at the end of the episode...i didn't understand that part very well
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Oct 27, 2010 4:50 PM

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clannad4ever said:
wow this is the first time seing Julian killing a person with such cold blood...i mean on his space scooter thingy it's a thing but when you behead someone with an axe...xD

another amazing episode,i think it would get into my top 15 lotgh episodes :)
so Yang has Isserlohn again..i'm actually starting to think he has a chance on this :D

5/5

PS:btw who was the guy that commited suicide at the end of the episode...i didn't understand that part very well


He commited suicide to save his honor, he would've been captured by the FPA and instead chose death, quite honorably.
 
Dec 27, 2010 4:12 PM

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Someone please tell me Julian and Merkatz will die...
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
 
Dec 29, 2010 3:48 AM

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Confucius said:
Someone please tell me Julian and Merkatz will die...


LOL
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Mar 14, 2011 4:27 PM
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The lame justification and lack of workarounds for the close-quarters combat would be acceptable, if every single time it happened there weren't main characters involved. If one shot makes everything explode, wouldn't the Imperials just suicide bomb the Rosen Ritters to hell, taking Julian and Poplan as well?

I guess they just prefer losing the death star and taking a goddamn tree to the face.
 
Mar 28, 2011 10:03 AM

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Lol I think LOGH has done well that it's usually so logical that the odd silliness gets picked to pieces so much :)

The combat is wierd sure, but its fun to watch and I don't think ANY story (especially one of such length, ambition etc) can completely avoid coincidental plotting/dumb footsoldier action scenes on occasion.

This episode had me smiling all the way through. Loved seeing Iserlohn again, the payoff for Yangs earlier "souvenir," and of course Rousen Ritter asskicking.
 
Apr 5, 2011 7:07 AM

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I was really worried that someone of Yang's crew would die during this. I keep thinking that Poplan or Schenkopp will die since they seem over-confident. Luckily they are safe for now.

70 episodes! I guess this is a normal amount for people who watch shows like Bleach that have hundreds of episodes, but I usually watch shorter anime, so I feel pretty accomplished having made it this far. But it's been great and I'm sure I will watch to the end :)
 
Jun 21, 2011 9:59 AM
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Did anybody notice half way through the episode during a close-up of Lutz that his eyes changed colour while he was talking? They changed from blue to red.
Could it be that he has a physical problem with his eyes like Oberstein? Or was it supposed to be symbolic?
I was suprised no one has mentioned it in this thread so I don't know if that was covered in an earlier episode and I missed it.
 
Aug 25, 2011 8:45 PM
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I guess I have to agree that the close combat seems ridiculous because there's no way that the Empire has no squad skilled in hand to hand. Remember how awesome Reuenthal fought vs Schenkopp...and he's an admiral. I know they had the one guy...can't remember his name know...who they tricked back when the empire was fighting over the death of the Kaiser. He was pretty damn good too, but they have to have people more skilled than they've shown. Also, why do they insist on fighting with their face masks up? It seems like it would be easier to get hurt.
 
Aug 26, 2011 2:05 AM

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Grisle said:
I guess I have to agree that the close combat seems ridiculous because there's no way that the Empire has no squad skilled in hand to hand. .


maybe because they play video games all day their melee skills aren't as polished as they should be.
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Dec 16, 2011 5:36 PM
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-Its official. I hate Merkatz.

-Imperials need a badass hand to hand unit or a SpecOps unit or something.

-The axe combat isn't ridiculous. Its awesome. Sure beats star wars stormtroopers who can't hit the broad side of a barn with a blaster rifle. They DID kill the Earth Cult crazies. So they aren't useless. The Alliance hand to hand always seems to be spearheaded by the Rosen Ritter or main characters so they always win.
 
Dec 25, 2011 7:16 PM
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this episode my anger peeked at dangerous level (probably highest while watching something in my life) it was clear that Yang will seize the fortress again (cit was clear since he left it) but even then seing Yang's utterly ridiculous set up being played out well - it pains you to watch

dethbed said:

I really don't feel much for the Alliance side any more, ever since Reinhard took control Yang's victories just feel like they are happening not because Yang is skilled, more that the series must keep him and his unit alive at all costs.


agree

i even think that Yang had this plot protection before Reinhard took control, the whole operation Ragnarok as far as i remember correctly was in favor of Empire that had quantitative and qualitative advantage not only of ships but also of brilliant commanders

you can feel it often - one side having magicaly less or more strength just to balance it out neatly as needed for the desired outcome, or even worse when strategy that was rendered useless 5minutes ago is now decimating the other side - i hate this so much

- the silliness of axe combat is not something im concerned about
but every axe combat results in rosenritten winning and against more and more ridiculous amount of enemy troops
- the whole second fall of Iserlohn fortress, that was forecasted when Yang set the trap is bullshit- im not buying it the moment the trap was set i rolled my eyes for whats to come

overally love the series (Reinhard,Oberstein most) - 9/10 so far but i didnt meet show that could annoy me so much that this one too

particularly YANG! he is such a hipocrate - he just keeps sticking to democracy again and again when it clearly has better options at hand even saying worst republic is better than best autocracy? is there anyone who would believe such nonsence? on top of that his government keeps selling him out
even trying to kill him and such and he wont change sides i get it if he plays along with empire there is not much of a story left but this is stupid

how many times did Yang say 'there is no need for bloodshed'? he clearly just wants peace till rest of his life yet strangely when Reinhard unifies universe that obviously is not peace so he must come and create war by himself - im surrprised no one asked him if democracy acheved by violence/evil means/bloodshed can be considered something else that what Reinhard did

im sorry for being so negative (its because i think this anime is worth analyzing) but Yang as a character fails quiet a lot.. one of many other examples of why this is - he may be intelligent and all but the fact that he saw Phezzan plotting and later even deduced earth cult was pulling strings thats just too much, Reinhard who was that time in situation where he had to think about Phezzan and outside of his own country didnt see it coming but Yang did? no way feels artificial and annoying

i kinda had the urge to vent myself...
 
Dec 27, 2011 9:32 AM

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sspit said:


you can feel it often - one side having magicaly less or more strength just to balance it out neatly as needed for the desired outcome, or even worse when strategy that was rendered useless 5minutes ago is now decimating the other side - i hate this so much

- the silliness of axe combat is not something im concerned about
but every axe combat results in rosenritten winning and against more and more ridiculous amount of enemy troops
- the whole second fall of Iserlohn fortress, that was forecasted when Yang set the trap is bullshit- im not buying it the moment the trap was set i rolled my eyes for whats to come

.


You're not the only one, others have raised similar objections that basically say that the plot seems a bit too convenient. But its not the anime (for the most part, cuz it does have some flaws), and its not you, its your perspective.

I know I've said this before, I'm not a huge fan of history, but I'm not lying when I tell you that those sort of things have happened many times in history; a smaller army inflicting endless defeats to armies twice or even three to four times their own numbers. And that hasn't just happened a few times. Muslim history is a good example of this, as their simultaneous wars against the Persian and Byzantine empires have shown.

And believe me, there is no end to how incompetent we human beings can be (just read the newspapers every day and you'll see what I mean). The mess ups that the superiors do on both sides are completely realistic (for the most part), including the invasion of Iserlohn. Well, at least it seemed more realistic than the deus ex machina's in FMA B and Death note.

sspit said:



how many times did Yang say 'there is no need for bloodshed'? he clearly just wants peace till rest of his life yet strangely when Reinhard unifies universe that obviously is not peace so he must come and create war by himself - im surrprised no one asked him if democracy acheved by violence/evil means/bloodshed can be considered something else that what Reinhard did

i.


The biggest democracy of the world, USA, was only achieved through "bloodshed". Even UK's transition to democracy wasn't completely bloodless.
Besides, what do you think will happen to the universe if Reinhard "unifies" it and then dies?
"...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth')
 
Dec 27, 2011 9:22 PM

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Reinhard could've won if he killed Bittenfield himself.
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
 
Jan 20, 2012 1:47 AM

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I don't get the issue with the trap.
It's only been forshadowed for oh...thirty odd episodes?
 
Feb 12, 2012 6:59 PM

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Confucius said:
Someone please tell me Julian and Merkatz will die...

oh u
 
Apr 2, 2012 6:40 AM

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I'm sick and tired of the Alliance.
"If Eren boned Historia then we'll be getting flashbacks right back to Ymir, from both of them."
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Apr 28, 2012 1:59 AM

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The ending was hilarious with the gentle music of the ending theme playing over images of the bloodied corpses as if we were still being shown scenes equivalent to picnics and laughter.

It was good to get this episode over with, I was starting to feel they spent too many episodes just preparing for this one without that much happening.
 
May 13, 2012 1:20 PM

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Mixed feelings about this episode. From a historical standpoint, I appreciate why Iserlohn is so important and I love the pattern of the Fortress changing hands once per season. But from a plot standpoint, it's just grown tiresome.

And the Empire seriously needs to train some Sardaukar or something, because the hand-to-hand combat skills of its soldiers is shameful.
 
May 14, 2012 5:31 AM

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Hakuromatsu said:

And the Empire seriously needs to train some Sardaukar or something, because the hand-to-hand combat skills of its soldiers is shameful.


Now I'm inspired to play Dune 2 again which has its own version of three kingdoms. Thinking about it now, I guess the Dune series has vague similarities with LotGH, although admittedly I've only read the first book and that must have been close to 20 years ago.
 
May 31, 2012 7:40 PM

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Well, seems like Lutz suddenly turned into an idiot
They were simply too greedy, they should have launched ~10,000 ships as a decoy and hid ~5000 in the metallic skin of Iserlohn, or they could have just simply stayed behind
I guess Yang's "hidden" trap was locking the thor hammer, am i right?
On the 1st recapture operation by the Imperial Forces, they should have tested all equipment for defects or whatever
Modified by RadiGen, May 31, 2012 7:55 PM
 
Jun 3, 2012 11:53 AM

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RadiGen said:
Well, seems like Lutz suddenly turned into an idiot
They were simply too greedy, they should have launched ~10,000 ships as a decoy and hid ~5000 in the metallic skin of Iserlohn, or they could have just simply stayed behind
I guess Yang's "hidden" trap was locking the thor hammer, am i right?
On the 1st recapture operation by the Imperial Forces, they should have tested all equipment for defects or whatever

From what I remember there wasn't actually anything wrong with it.

Until the password was broadcast...then everything got FUBAR'D.
 
Aug 13, 2012 2:50 PM

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Lutz should have stayed in the goddamn fortress.
 
Sep 15, 2012 1:20 PM
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what a horrible episode, from the cheap tricks used to the plot armored bunch killing everyone
and these guys are freedom fighters? hahaha
 
Oct 15, 2012 4:45 PM

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OK so you have an impregnable fortress and a huge fleet of ships. Are you really going to station your best close range fighters on that fortress?

The point of the fortress was that an attacking fleet would never be able to get its ships close enough to the fortress to land their man-to man-troops. At least that's what I thought.

Leaving your elite fighters in a fortress where no fleet should be able to get even close seems like it would be a gross misuse of resources to me.

Makes more sense to station the non-essential fighting forces inside since it was supposed to be impregnable to start. Take the best forces you have to the front lines and leave the weak ones inside the impregnable fortress.
 
Oct 15, 2012 8:26 PM
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Jezmund said:
OK so you have an impregnable fortress and a huge fleet of ships. Are you really going to station your best close range fighters on that fortress?

The point of the fortress was that an attacking fleet would never be able to get its ships close enough to the fortress to land their man-to man-troops. At least that's what I thought.

Leaving your elite fighters in a fortress where no fleet should be able to get even close seems like it would be a gross misuse of resources to me.

Makes more sense to station the non-essential fighting forces inside since it was supposed to be impregnable to start. Take the best forces you have to the front lines and leave the weak ones inside the impregnable fortress.

But, isn't that exactly what the empire did when Wenli took Iserlohn? The few and weak forcesthat were in Iserlohn let the Rosenritter capture it easily.
 
Oct 16, 2012 10:30 AM

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I think what I was trying to convey is that there are a lot of reasons why the infantry troops could be doing a poor job. I'm sure that you could make a case they weren't expecting to have to fight right away -- if at all.

I'm sure that they would've assumed the Thor Hammer would fire and keep the attacking forces at bay... Confusion and ill-preparedness tend to lead to routs.

I'm just throwing out possibilities... The fact that the Rosenritters just crushed the Iserlohn forces isn't the one thing that bothers me in this episode.

I mean, wouldn't you expect them to test the equipment and take a thorough accounting of everything in the fortress once it was recaptured? If I was going to have a problem with this episode, it would be more along those lines than anything else.
 
Jun 12, 2013 6:38 AM

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Well, I have to admit Yang is a monster. He is really, too smart, this strategy is one of many proves ...

I think there is no plotholes in this episode ...

But I really hate Yang Wenli now, I don't know the reason ( maybe because I don't want Reinhard to lose againts Yang ). But if Reinhard still doesn't have the desire to kill Yang after this troll that Yang made, I will hate Reinhard too ...
Please Kaiser, beat and kill Yang and Julian !! ><
Modified by Jim_Heart, Jun 12, 2013 6:51 AM
 
Jun 28, 2013 8:36 AM

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Plot-protection: activated
 
Aug 4, 2013 6:30 PM

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Imperial soldiers murdered as always :p
 
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