| All i can say is, this won't stay an issue for too long either way. it can only go 2 ways: 1. the complaints will catch up to them and they have to revert back to translators 2. this will stay a problem until ai gets good enough to not make mistakes, which at the rate its going, it shouldn't take more than 2-3 years max. |
| Also available at: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA An AMV I that I spend way too much time on: A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
hlepme said: Personally, I believe that AI will never be able to translate with the nuance, cultural knowledge, etc. that humans can, that is true, but i would argue very few translators can. 90% of the translations aren't good enough for me to say an ai will never be able to replace it. Ai will be able to replace "translating" but it will never be the best or anything close to that at it. that is actually how i feel about everything in relation to ai, from music to writing to everything. |
| Also available at: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA An AMV I that I spend way too much time on: A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
| as a side note, someone used AI to fix the infamous Dragon Maid patriarchy dub scene, and it's surprisingly good. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
Op is clearly trying to push lies and down play issues that youtubers have pointed out about these insane politically driven "translators" that have been directly changing any content they don't like and inserting political messaging into their translations. The Youtubers who are covering this topic are not doing so in good faith at all. Most of the examples they bring up are from multiple YEARS ago. Youtubers like Rev Says Desu (what a cringe fucking name, literally means "Rev Says It Is". It is what? Stupid?), Hero Hei, and Asmongold are pretty much outrage bait channels that try to rile up anime fans (and gamers) using hateful rhetoric and generally have a major bias which clouds any actual critical judgement or fair points they have by framing it as a "woke vs anti-woke" thing. Instead of pointing out actual issues in translations such as mischaracterized lines, confusing word choice, ACTUAL CENSORSHIP (not this "I am butthurt about a queer character existing" crap, more like removing actual content), and clunky unnaturally translated dialogue, they get upset over LITERALLY ANYTHING mildly progressive such as transgender characters existing (a lot of these people will deny their identity despite most of the time it LITERALLY BEING THERE IN THE JAPANESE TEXT), mild jokes in dubs which are usually added to pad the lip flaps (and most of y'all don't watch dubs anyways so why the fuck would you even care), and the use of slang at all (even when it is appropriate for a character to be speaking like that). You can't claim that these sources are "unbiased" while using extreme right-wing arguments against mildly progressive langauge and jokes being in localized scripts for anime dubs. I could put up a counterargument that older localizations from the 90's and early 2000's were censored by politically driven companies to censor any progressive themes in anime such as Sailor Moon (which censored queer couples and transgender characters) and Yu-Gi-Oh (which censored a character's struggle with domestic violence and a nonbinary character's sex and gender identity in GX). You see how easily you could spin the arguments you are using against you? The Dragon Maid situation is a great example of this and shows what a complete mockery of the original work they made it into (this is one of the most famous examples That example is old as hell now. Dragon Maid came out 7 YEARS AGO and really isn't that relevant anymore. A LOT has changed in the industry since then with FUNimation, the studio who dubbed the show, being absorbed into Crunchyroll and no longer really existing in the state that it used to. That example was also ONLY IN THE DUB, which had to have script changes in order to fit lip flaps, keep the comedic timing, and adapt the jokes in the show to work in English, which has a completely different linguistic structure and cultural context than Japanese. If you REALLY wanted a version of the line that didn't punch up the joke to make fun of how it relates to Western society, the OFFICIAL subtitles had an alternate take on the line that all you people got so offended by that is much closer to the exact Japanese script. People who complained about this probably didn't even watch the dub anyways since most people who would be so offended over any minor script change would probably watch the show subtitled anyways. A dub is always going to need extra modification over just reading the subtitle script, so it isn't really fair to complain about a dub making minor alterations to fit since it was a throwaway line. It wasn't like they changed Lucoa's whole character to constantly be talking about feminism and socialism or something, it was a one-off joke. Using a 7-year-old example isn't really that strong of evidence, and it will only continue to weaken the more time passes since this isn't really something that is new anymore, this is old, regurgitated drama. Use a more recent example if you are going to criticize something, not an example that is almost a decade old, it really isn't the "owned the libs" moment you think it is. These so called "translators" have changed many things and rewrote entire scripts because they don't like either the joke or are offended by it, remove a sexual moment because they don't like it, insert a political ideology and more. Scripts have gotten much more accurate over the past 20 years and in general have much less complete rewrites and cuts than back in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. Denying this is flat out fallacious. The days of shows completely censoring any sensitive material, queer content, and sexual content are mostly behind us, with only a few kids shows like Pokémon, the Rush Duel era of Yu-Gi-Oh, and Beyblade still doing extensive cutting and rewrites to the script to the point where they diverge quite a bit. If you bring up an ecchi show as an example that is also not really valid since a lot of the times, the TV cuts which are already censored are given to the international licensors due to part of the sales strategy for these shows being an uncensored Blu-ray release with a lot of the content that needed to be removed for Japanese TV broadcast being added back in. The complete disregard for the original works and then trying to act like they are the good guys and even calling the anime community "nazis" at points for wanting accurate translations when the anime community rightfully calls them out is not only disgusting but frankly just shows how they only want to use anime to push their ideas and think they can get away with it because the original creators might not be able to understand what is going on, which shows just how racist they are as well considering they are taking advantage over the Japanese creators. Proof or it didn't happen. You also do release that the licensor generally has a say as to how much freedom they are given right? They have to approve the scripts before they go out. also ai isn't even bad and frankly anything is better than the politically driven "localizers" pushing their ideology on Japanese media because even though ai has it's problems which are quickly lessening by the day (chap gpt 4 is already amazing for its pretty decent translations of hentai games and frankly the speed of improvements are incredible). The misinformation about ai content quality and youtubers to defend these localizers is pretty telling about what is going on here in this post frankly. I have literally given direct evidence showing the issues with AI translations, as well as linked the pages to the manga to allow further research. These AI translations for Centaurs and Kamen Rider Kyuuga done by Ablaze Manga and Comics Titan respectively are of completely unacceptable quality and are complete nonsense due to their use of AI and "Machine Learning" algorithms instead of a human translator. The fact that you are so afraid of anything mildly political that you are willing to have a complete garbage and unacceptable product is really showing. You also do realize saying "CHAT GPT 4 IS GREAT AT TRANSLATING PORN" isn't really the W you think it is right? Most porn has extremely repetitive dialogue so of course it would be able to do it somewhat decently when half the lines are "ahh fuck yes ahh". Also, why the fuck would you trust some Youtubers who clearly show major anti-translator biases over someone who ACTUALLY FUCKING CAN SPEAK JAPANESE OR HAS SOURCES FROM PEOPLE WHO CAN SPEAK JAPANESE. These Youtubers have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. I'm really happy to see people of the anime community gather together and not tolerate this garbage from these "localizers" as well as try to inform the original creators what is going on whenever possible so they don't tolerate this garbage and even let them know about ai or to use other actually trust worthy translators to translate the stories faithfully. The more we do this the faster we can put these so called "localizers" out of the job they clearly don't deserve and give it to people who actually deserve it instead. It truly is sad we have gotten to the point of ai and fansubs being far more reliable than "official" translations as well as the fact that people actually have to research the quality of official translations of a product before buying it to avoid getting a butchered product which also leads to more pirating since people are not going to want to spend money on purposely mistranslated products. The people of this community who are "banding together" are a vocal minority of angry immature incels who have 0 knowledge of the Japanese language, the translation process, or even how language itself works. If you people seriously want to put translators out of a job, you are insane assholes since you are wishing that people lose their livelihood and may go homeless, all just because you don't like how they translated a fucking cartoon or comic book. Do you realize how genuinely insane that sounds. Fansubs have 0 quality check and can literally be shit out with as many inaccuracies or biases the creator has because there are no checks from licensors or any standards that have to be met. AI translations are overall less reliable than human translations from many testimonials I have seen across the internet from users trying to use services like Chat GPT and DeepL to translate unlocalized light novels. It creates just an insufferable mess that is extremely hard to follow and isn't up to any professional standards. If you genuinely believe that getting a butchered nonsensical product with more errors than a human would make is "good enough", then eat up your slop but don't be surprised if a majority of people don't want to engage with it because it is absolute dogshit quality. For those wanting to learn more about this there are many youtubers talking about this,to talk about the insanity that is the "localizers" and how they are getting caught in their own lies and called out on their garbage and how they laugh in the face of the anime community and are proud of their mistranslations. Of course there are others as well like Rev says desu for example who should have a few videos on this topic as well. Rev is an outrage bait Youtuber who is a complete jackass and pushes hateful views onto the anime community, for the love of God people need to stop listening to that jackass and the vomit that comes out of his loli-loving mouth. He is not a reliable source and has extreme biases against translators and has 0 actual experience with the translation and localization process. Rev is about as unreliable of a source as you can get. He is the equivalent of that MAULer asshole and the Fandom Menace from the Star Wars community to the anime community. You have literally not even provided real evidence for any of his claims, just regurgitated them like an old grandma whining about vaccines cuz some wackjob on the news told her it was poison. Always stay informed my fellow anime lovers and don't let these "localizers" continue to destroy the thing we love. The only one destroying anything is the uneducated fans who have 0 fucking idea what they are talking about, pushing for AI translation to destroy the industry, and pushing this "anti-woke" culture war bs so heavily in this community making it an unwelcome place for anyone who isn't some basement dwelling man who's watched 500 hours of animated porn of underage girls. Call me a "twitter freak", call me an "SJW", call me a "libtard", I don't care. I will not let this community actively slander those who work so hard to bring us the content we love to a wider audience outside of Japan. They are hardworking individuals with a really tough job and do not get nearly the credit they deserve because of how toxic and hateful this community has gotten. |
This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place.  |
LSSJ_Gaming said: A LOT has changed in the industry since then with FUNimation, the studio who dubbed the show, being absorbed into Crunchyroll and no longer really existing in the state that it used to. Kind of an odd point to make to them when Crunchyroll has had it's own flaws before and was bought out by Sony which itself has a reputation for being pro censorship. A mounting monopoly isnt likely going to be much motivated do a good job on it's own because there is increasingly less and less legal competition and all they have for guidance is any criticism they are given. LSSJ_Gaming said: script changes in order to fit lip flaps While true to a degree lip flaps in anime is often generally speaking lower quality than more cartoonish Western animation. They often except for close up lip shots of brief lines only have pretty generic open, halfway closed and full closed and often don't use different mouth shapes for different sounds and even often dont even change frequency of lip flaps only total duration so they are highly flexible and that's without even editing the video.. Even in the original raws in various anime the audio doesnt always match perfectly to the lip flap because the animation was done before the audio recording. If you pay close attention you can see it despite the rhythmic pattern to spoken Japanese it still can happen. Ironically you even have a vid directly above your post that seemingly demonstrates what you say about lip flaps isn't actually always the case. petran79 said: Older series faced a similar issue where the English translation script provided to studios for dubbing was also barebones. Probably was translated by Japanese with not so good level of English or by a foreigner with not so good grasp of Japanese. Add also that the same script or even worse, the processed English dub script would be passed to other languages, becoming like Chinese Whispers One reason you saw so much more talking in other language dubs compared to the Japanese original mainly because they try to cover for the absence of a good script translation. Id think the ideal translator would be someone born and raised in Japan and learned English to native fluency but later moved a Western English speaking country out of necessity and has lived there maybe 5 years. |
traedJan 14, 11:12 PM
| It really depends on what AI is being used to do these translations, OP. Just saying, "so and so company used AI to do a translation and it was bad", is kind of a useless statement without having more information on the tools they were using, and the process. For example if I ask Chat GPT what 子馬 is, it tells me it is a foal:  Just because one AI translation is bad, doesn't mean they will all be bad. There are numerous ways to improve the quality, like you could provide the AI documentation on translation styles and readings of names, etc to result in better translations. New models can also handle much larger amounts of context, GPT4 turbo can handle up to around 100,000 words. More than enough to translate episodes of anime or manga volumes without forgetting stuff (I believe the average anime episode only has an average of a few thousand words). Most importantly, using AI for the translation does not mean removing humans from the equation. Even human translators at companies will have separate people editing their translation, why would this not be the case for the AI translation? If the cheap outsource company actually had anyone semi competent overseeing the AI translation of "Centaurs", then they would've easily caught something like Hayame becoming Sokugyo, the fact that they didn't, shouldn't be indicative of AI translation as a whole, and instead just indicative that the company handling the translation is trash. |
| anything ai does can't be worse than the majuu sensen subs I watched, and I'd rather have that garbage than rewrites, localization, censorship, political activism and memes inserted for no reason. this whole shitshow wouldn't have occurred if localizationbastardization and translation would be treated as two separate things. you realize that localizers piss off the audience willingly, get paid for it, then they gloat about it on social media? |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
| All I can say to "localizers" that have been butchering translations for years is "learn to code". We're in thus situation because there are wasn't accountability, standards or professionalism in the translation grift they had going on. Of course, eventually, Japanese companies would catch on to the fact that they can get translations of about the same quality for cheaper and without the politics or attemps at MCU humor. |
BatoKusanagiJan 15, 2:40 AM
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| AI will eventually improve, Dragon Maid issue might have been 7 years ago but it is still relevant as localiser who commited it, is still being an asshole about it instead of agreeing to making a mistake. That is the issue, humans not wanting to fix their mistakes. Localisers job is not to change what author had in mind and AI will not make this mistake. This unprofessionalism has been leaking into subs aswell, it doesn't stay in dubs anymore. Shows like Nagatoro or recently released Hokkaido Gals Are Super Adorable! do include some nasty zoomer speech of chronicly online individuals that I never wish to see in anime unless author specifically put it there. "sus, gigachad, amogus, mid, rizz, swag" Disgusting Also most people responsible for these issues in translation, aren't even translators. They are localisers who don't actually speak japanese for the most part. Translators are doing a good job and then localisers are messing it up by putting in their own crap. |
ScorptekJan 15, 3:09 AM
Reply to Technopunk
Real life AI as it is right now is so disappointing, often the tool of greedy corpos not wanting to pay actual people, rather than a tool that actually does human work better than humans.
I dont see AI replacing humans in art making anytime soon, AI lacks creative thinking and logical deduction, its closer to Mass Effect´s VI (Virtual Intelligence) than true AI that we have grown accustomed in sci-fi works.
I dont see AI replacing humans in art making anytime soon, AI lacks creative thinking and logical deduction, its closer to Mass Effect´s VI (Virtual Intelligence) than true AI that we have grown accustomed in sci-fi works.
| @Technopunk Sci-fi just happens to be really wrong about their predictions on AI. And quite frankly most writers also lack those skills, so AI is actually doing great. |
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| C'mon. Let's give it some more years and wait till AI finally replaces all humans in every work. Can't wait for such fcked up future. |
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| I didn't even realize the Dragon Maid dub had a problem at the time of unknowingly getting ready for Season 2. Sure now, I wouldn't want to hear that line again after hearing about it being exposed in headlights for quite a while now, but I just glossed over it initially. I think something like Nagatoro even in the sub works would be more defiling of artwork if they really are using generational slang for the time without it being the author's intent of them signing off on it. But then again, it's just dragons adapting to a new human world and teasing an upperclassman in a HS setting. What the fuck do I know other than that? |
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Reply to DreamingBeats
as for the calf/foal example, a human localizer wouldn't make that mistake. but instead, you'd see remarks about how consuming animal meat is wrong and that everyone should be a vegan or something. not that i would care, i just watch it raw on tver or on hulu with subs disabled when possible. sadly you can't disable subs from sentai blurays (at least not without hacking it with a pc), but it is what it is.
| @DreamingBeats Nope, they would totally make mistakes like that. That's how Moses got his horns... |
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Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
Op is clearly trying to push lies and down play issues that youtubers have pointed out about these insane politically driven "translators" that have been directly changing any content they don't like and inserting political messaging into their translations.
The Youtubers who are covering this topic are not doing so in good faith at all. Most of the examples they bring up are from multiple YEARS ago. Youtubers like Rev Says Desu (what a cringe fucking name, literally means "Rev Says It Is". It is what? Stupid?), Hero Hei, and Asmongold are pretty much outrage bait channels that try to rile up anime fans (and gamers) using hateful rhetoric and generally have a major bias which clouds any actual critical judgement or fair points they have by framing it as a "woke vs anti-woke" thing. Instead of pointing out actual issues in translations such as mischaracterized lines, confusing word choice, ACTUAL CENSORSHIP (not this "I am butthurt about a queer character existing" crap, more like removing actual content), and clunky unnaturally translated dialogue, they get upset over LITERALLY ANYTHING mildly progressive such as transgender characters existing (a lot of these people will deny their identity despite most of the time it LITERALLY BEING THERE IN THE JAPANESE TEXT), mild jokes in dubs which are usually added to pad the lip flaps (and most of y'all don't watch dubs anyways so why the fuck would you even care), and the use of slang at all (even when it is appropriate for a character to be speaking like that). You can't claim that these sources are "unbiased" while using extreme right-wing arguments against mildly progressive langauge and jokes being in localized scripts for anime dubs. I could put up a counterargument that older localizations from the 90's and early 2000's were censored by politically driven companies to censor any progressive themes in anime such as Sailor Moon (which censored queer couples and transgender characters) and Yu-Gi-Oh (which censored a character's struggle with domestic violence and a nonbinary character's sex and gender identity in GX). You see how easily you could spin the arguments you are using against you?
The Dragon Maid situation is a great example of this and shows what a complete mockery of the original work they made it into (this is one of the most famous examples
That example is old as hell now. Dragon Maid came out 7 YEARS AGO and really isn't that relevant anymore. A LOT has changed in the industry since then with FUNimation, the studio who dubbed the show, being absorbed into Crunchyroll and no longer really existing in the state that it used to. That example was also ONLY IN THE DUB, which had to have script changes in order to fit lip flaps, keep the comedic timing, and adapt the jokes in the show to work in English, which has a completely different linguistic structure and cultural context than Japanese. If you REALLY wanted a version of the line that didn't punch up the joke to make fun of how it relates to Western society, the OFFICIAL subtitles had an alternate take on the line that all you people got so offended by that is much closer to the exact Japanese script. People who complained about this probably didn't even watch the dub anyways since most people who would be so offended over any minor script change would probably watch the show subtitled anyways. A dub is always going to need extra modification over just reading the subtitle script, so it isn't really fair to complain about a dub making minor alterations to fit since it was a throwaway line. It wasn't like they changed Lucoa's whole character to constantly be talking about feminism and socialism or something, it was a one-off joke. Using a 7-year-old example isn't really that strong of evidence, and it will only continue to weaken the more time passes since this isn't really something that is new anymore, this is old, regurgitated drama. Use a more recent example if you are going to criticize something, not an example that is almost a decade old, it really isn't the "owned the libs" moment you think it is.
These so called "translators" have changed many things and rewrote entire scripts because they don't like either the joke or are offended by it, remove a sexual moment because they don't like it, insert a political ideology and more.
Scripts have gotten much more accurate over the past 20 years and in general have much less complete rewrites and cuts than back in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. Denying this is flat out fallacious. The days of shows completely censoring any sensitive material, queer content, and sexual content are mostly behind us, with only a few kids shows like Pokémon, the Rush Duel era of Yu-Gi-Oh, and Beyblade still doing extensive cutting and rewrites to the script to the point where they diverge quite a bit. If you bring up an ecchi show as an example that is also not really valid since a lot of the times, the TV cuts which are already censored are given to the international licensors due to part of the sales strategy for these shows being an uncensored Blu-ray release with a lot of the content that needed to be removed for Japanese TV broadcast being added back in.
The complete disregard for the original works and then trying to act like they are the good guys and even calling the anime community "nazis" at points for wanting accurate translations when the anime community rightfully calls them out is not only disgusting but frankly just shows how they only want to use anime to push their ideas and think they can get away with it because the original creators might not be able to understand what is going on, which shows just how racist they are as well considering they are taking advantage over the Japanese creators.
Proof or it didn't happen. You also do release that the licensor generally has a say as to how much freedom they are given right? They have to approve the scripts before they go out.
also ai isn't even bad and frankly anything is better than the politically driven "localizers" pushing their ideology on Japanese media because even though ai has it's problems which are quickly lessening by the day (chap gpt 4 is already amazing for its pretty decent translations of hentai games and frankly the speed of improvements are incredible). The misinformation about ai content quality and youtubers to defend these localizers is pretty telling about what is going on here in this post frankly.
I have literally given direct evidence showing the issues with AI translations, as well as linked the pages to the manga to allow further research. These AI translations for Centaurs and Kamen Rider Kyuuga done by Ablaze Manga and Comics Titan respectively are of completely unacceptable quality and are complete nonsense due to their use of AI and "Machine Learning" algorithms instead of a human translator. The fact that you are so afraid of anything mildly political that you are willing to have a complete garbage and unacceptable product is really showing. You also do realize saying "CHAT GPT 4 IS GREAT AT TRANSLATING PORN" isn't really the W you think it is right? Most porn has extremely repetitive dialogue so of course it would be able to do it somewhat decently when half the lines are "ahh fuck yes ahh". Also, why the fuck would you trust some Youtubers who clearly show major anti-translator biases over someone who ACTUALLY FUCKING CAN SPEAK JAPANESE OR HAS SOURCES FROM PEOPLE WHO CAN SPEAK JAPANESE. These Youtubers have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.
I'm really happy to see people of the anime community gather together and not tolerate this garbage from these "localizers" as well as try to inform the original creators what is going on whenever possible so they don't tolerate this garbage and even let them know about ai or to use other actually trust worthy translators to translate the stories faithfully. The more we do this the faster we can put these so called "localizers" out of the job they clearly don't deserve and give it to people who actually deserve it instead. It truly is sad we have gotten to the point of ai and fansubs being far more reliable than "official" translations as well as the fact that people actually have to research the quality of official translations of a product before buying it to avoid getting a butchered product which also leads to more pirating since people are not going to want to spend money on purposely mistranslated products.
The people of this community who are "banding together" are a vocal minority of angry immature incels who have 0 knowledge of the Japanese language, the translation process, or even how language itself works. If you people seriously want to put translators out of a job, you are insane assholes since you are wishing that people lose their livelihood and may go homeless, all just because you don't like how they translated a fucking cartoon or comic book. Do you realize how genuinely insane that sounds. Fansubs have 0 quality check and can literally be shit out with as many inaccuracies or biases the creator has because there are no checks from licensors or any standards that have to be met. AI translations are overall less reliable than human translations from many testimonials I have seen across the internet from users trying to use services like Chat GPT and DeepL to translate unlocalized light novels. It creates just an insufferable mess that is extremely hard to follow and isn't up to any professional standards. If you genuinely believe that getting a butchered nonsensical product with more errors than a human would make is "good enough", then eat up your slop but don't be surprised if a majority of people don't want to engage with it because it is absolute dogshit quality.
For those wanting to learn more about this there are many youtubers talking about this,to talk about the insanity that is the "localizers" and how they are getting caught in their own lies and called out on their garbage and how they laugh in the face of the anime community and are proud of their mistranslations. Of course there are others as well like Rev says desu for example who should have a few videos on this topic as well.
Rev is an outrage bait Youtuber who is a complete jackass and pushes hateful views onto the anime community, for the love of God people need to stop listening to that jackass and the vomit that comes out of his loli-loving mouth. He is not a reliable source and has extreme biases against translators and has 0 actual experience with the translation and localization process. Rev is about as unreliable of a source as you can get. He is the equivalent of that MAULer asshole and the Fandom Menace from the Star Wars community to the anime community. You have literally not even provided real evidence for any of his claims, just regurgitated them like an old grandma whining about vaccines cuz some wackjob on the news told her it was poison.
Always stay informed my fellow anime lovers and don't let these "localizers" continue to destroy the thing we love.
The only one destroying anything is the uneducated fans who have 0 fucking idea what they are talking about, pushing for AI translation to destroy the industry, and pushing this "anti-woke" culture war bs so heavily in this community making it an unwelcome place for anyone who isn't some basement dwelling man who's watched 500 hours of animated porn of underage girls. Call me a "twitter freak", call me an "SJW", call me a "libtard", I don't care. I will not let this community actively slander those who work so hard to bring us the content we love to a wider audience outside of Japan. They are hardworking individuals with a really tough job and do not get nearly the credit they deserve because of how toxic and hateful this community has gotten.
LSSJ_Gaming said: I could put up a counterargument that older localizations from the 90's and early 2000's were censored by politically driven companies to censor any progressive themes in anime such as Sailor Moon (which censored queer couples and transgender characters) and Yu-Gi-Oh (which censored a character's struggle with domestic violence and a nonbinary character's sex and gender identity in GX). You see how easily you could spin the arguments you are using against you? That's not a counterargument. What you're saying supports the idea that evil, biased translators need to be put out of business. LSSJ_Gaming said: People who complained about this probably didn't even watch the dub anyways since most people who would be so offended over any minor script change would probably watch the show subtitled anyways. I hate people who complain about dub they never watch. LSSJ_Gaming said: These AI translations for Centaurs and Kamen Rider Kyuuga done by Ablaze Manga and Comics Titan respectively are of completely unacceptable quality and are complete nonsense due to their use of AI and "Machine Learning" algorithms instead of a human translator. I take it back, AI will kill off licensed translations. Fans will quit buying from Ablaze and Titan after losing trust in their AI translations, putting the companies out of business. I never even heard of Ablaze until last year, when they announced a couple of old titles that interest me. I hope they do a better job this year with Neo Faust and Choujin Taikei ("Tomorrow the Birds," they call it)... |
| その目だれの目？ |
Scorptek said: Nagatoro was literally using a short version of suspicious in Japanese, there is literally nothing wrong about that translation, except all the twitter users (that don't even speak Japanese) getting mad at it.Shows like Nagatoro NonAtmospheric said: Again, there's nothing wrong with the Nagatoro subs. I think something like Nagatoro even in the sub works traed said: I think you mean SIE has history of censorship, not Sony itself.Sony which itself has a reputation for being pro censorship. I mean, Sony even produces ecchi anime, and some of the highest rated anime on your list were produced by Sony... |
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| I ain't reading all that shit, but hire better localizers and you won't have this problem. If it's good, it will be reflected in the work. If it's clearly self indulgent nonsense like a lot of localizers are doing, then they can be replaced. It's not a big deal. A truly good localization is an underrated aspect of entertainment and it has been on a sharp decline. On the other hand, AI is so incoherent, that an absolute slop along these lines would be absolutely hilarious. |
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Reply to MadanielFL
Scorptek said:
Shows like Nagatoro
Nagatoro was literally using a short version of suspicious in Japanese, there is literally nothing wrong about that translation, except all the twitter users (that don't even speak Japanese) getting mad at it.Shows like Nagatoro
NonAtmospheric said:
I think something like Nagatoro even in the sub works
Again, there's nothing wrong with the Nagatoro subs. I think something like Nagatoro even in the sub works
traed said:
Sony which itself has a reputation for being pro censorship.
I think you mean SIE has history of censorship, not Sony itself.Sony which itself has a reputation for being pro censorship.
I mean, Sony even produces ecchi anime, and some of the highest rated anime on your list were produced by Sony...
| @MadanielFL I like how you come in, pick three words from what I said and ignore everything else. Using "sus" in that instance was not a smart way to translate it judging by it being associated with Among Us shitposts. And you also forgot about the word "gigachad" which is just pure meme culture. Also like I mentioned before these localizers aren't speaking japanese themself. Translators do and provide script for localizer to adapt afterwards. There is plenty wrong with Nagatoro subs. |
Scorptek said: How would you translate the short version of suspicious then?Using "sus" in that instance was not a smart way to translate it judging by it being associated with Among Us shitposts. sus was already being used before Among Us was a thing. Scorptek said: And the translators are the one subbing the anime, it's dubs that gets passed through a script writer that doesn't know Japanese, but in the subs itself they do know the language. Translators do and provide script for localizer to adapt afterwards. |
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Reply to MadanielFL
Scorptek said:
Using "sus" in that instance was not a smart way to translate it judging by it being associated with Among Us shitposts.
How would you translate the short version of suspicious then?Using "sus" in that instance was not a smart way to translate it judging by it being associated with Among Us shitposts.
sus was already being used before Among Us was a thing.
Scorptek said:
Translators do and provide script for localizer to adapt afterwards.
And the translators are the one subbing the anime, it's dubs that gets passed through a script writer that doesn't know Japanese, but in the subs itself they do know the language. Translators do and provide script for localizer to adapt afterwards.
| @MadanielFL Because of the shitposty nature of "sus" I would just keep it "suspicious" it was fine as it is, how about the other internet slang word which I mentioned "gigachad" which you ignored twice already? It is simply unprofessional to use these. I expect these people to do their jobs properly, that is what they get paid for afterall. And it is funny when people defend them because they often go to twitter just to brag about how horrible job they did lmao. When people point it out they play a victim card. It is not always the case unfortunately, I wouldn't mind as much if subs were good even if dubs were messed up. Ideally one would just learn japanese but unfortunately I also have my own life, responsibilities and I am simply too busy to dedicate few years of my life for it. That is why there are supposed "PROFESSIONALS" to do this job instead. I think it would be preferable if Japan had their own in-house translators to adapt script instead of AI. |
Reply to MadanielFL
Scorptek said:
Shows like Nagatoro
Nagatoro was literally using a short version of suspicious in Japanese, there is literally nothing wrong about that translation, except all the twitter users (that don't even speak Japanese) getting mad at it.Shows like Nagatoro
NonAtmospheric said:
I think something like Nagatoro even in the sub works
Again, there's nothing wrong with the Nagatoro subs. I think something like Nagatoro even in the sub works
traed said:
Sony which itself has a reputation for being pro censorship.
I think you mean SIE has history of censorship, not Sony itself.Sony which itself has a reputation for being pro censorship.
I mean, Sony even produces ecchi anime, and some of the highest rated anime on your list were produced by Sony...
| @MadanielFL Nagatoro was literally using a short version of suspicious in Japanese She didn't use a short version of suspicious in Japanese though. 怪しい is a normal word/adjective. The sus line wasn't generally terrible (especially that this word existed way longer than shitty meme that I didn't even know about), gigachad was way worse and completely altered her point. Anyway, except this Nagatoro subs were fine. I don't know why people are using it as an example of terrible translation if there are many other series with completely fucked up official subs. Mostly Sentai/Hidive, Amazon and Netflix ones. |
rsc-plJan 15, 9:00 AM
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
MadanielFL said: I think you mean SIE has history of censorship, not Sony itself. I mean, Sony even produces ecchi anime, and some of the highest rated anime on your list were produced by Sony... I didnt know it went under a separate division name for that but yeah i wasnt talking domestically. MadanielFL said: Nagatoro was literally using a short version of suspicious in Japanese, there is literally nothing wrong about that translation, except all the twitter users (that don't even speak Japanese) getting mad at it. But from what bits of Japanese ive read about the Japanese shorten their words and sentences even more than English speakers do especially since they are very contextual. That would be like a direct translation where you use names in excess instead of pronouns. If you just shortened everything they do it would become unnatural sounding in some cases becoming broken English. It just feels too meme sounding even though technically an actual shortened word (so not THAT bad being technically correct), i never heard anyone speak that way in person in my entire life ive only heard "suspicious". Maybe some people do it from online influence now but it will not last long just like "fam" seemingly died off in only a couple years. It is better to stick with something that has been around a while in normal use. Doesnt make sense for a sub to shorten even if original was short except cases with a really long line delivered, maybe dub but even a dub has other options like "suspect" or "dodgy" which is still a shorter syllable (2) count than "suspicious" (3) though I dont have the clip to check the number of times their mouth opened and closed to check if it can be worked in easy enough but should be since spoken casual English is so flexible. Like i get the argument for it being "sus" but doesnt this logic also make sense? Maybe it wouldnt have come off as bad if it wasnt memed into excess but hard to tell because you cant remove that context from the experience. Actually im more annoyed seeing "Chad" and "Gigachad" in subs....i cant recall which but ive seen it and it is always annoying. What next is Karen going to be there too? It is worse because these are actual names and anyone not constantly online wont get it and just get confused since they are newer and likely wont last since so much modern slang doesnt last. Ryuseishun said: By overcompensated retaliation against a smaller group of problematic individuals, they’ve only worsened the issue. It really doesn’t help that the sudden surge of support for clearly questionable, “soulless” pre-programmed methods is all due to a growing of trust in human work now due to those aforementioned “woke localizers”. At this point, if this starts to seep into the anime industry in terms of voice acting AND animation, can it be even considered art anymore? Art is something that is what it is cause it’s done chiefly by human hand through where feelings and expressions are conveyed, not through some god damn automated program. That isnt why LLMs are being used. It is because competition to get something out first. It will always be faster than any human ever could be and just isnt worth it to hire someone to put out low quality work to be so fast. It doesnt necessarily mean it will replace the human translators it just is there as a first round in many cases. DreamWindow said: I ain't reading all that shit, but hire better localizers and you won't have this problem. If it's good, it will be reflected in the work. If it's clearly self indulgent nonsense like a lot of localizers are doing, then they can be replaced. It's not a big deal. A truly good localization is an underrated aspect of entertainment and it has been on a sharp decline. On the other hand, AI is so incoherent, that an absolute slop along these lines would be absolutely hilarious. Different kind of "AI" method I think. Where they can mess up potentially real bad is improper speech recognition to begin with before translation. If you want to test something out use DeepL it is free to translate text up to certain length at a time. It is better than Google Translate (possibly trolls mess with Google Translate results since you can suggest translations) most the time but makes plenty of errors still. What is being used for anime is WhisperAI though. |
Scorptek said: You expect them to do their job, but gets mad when they do their job and translates accordingly, only because of the "shitposty nature" lol, what a terrible argument. I expect these people to do their jobs properly If doing their jobs means you need to have the wrong translation because people are afraid of "shitposty nature" then I feel bad for the translators with how specific you want them to do their job. And about the other ones, yeah those exist, but anime characters don't even talk like how real Japanese people talk in real life, and there are many examples of characters using slang or even internet slang in their speech. |
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| @Ryuseishun That's a slippery slope fallacy. Just because AI threatens the career of western translators and script writers for English dub, that does not mean the same is true for everyone else working in the industry. In fact, voice actors and actresses will likely be fine. This is because people prefer characters being voiced by humans, and using AI voices from existing actors would involve legal hurdle (you can't use someone's voice for commercial purposes without their permission). AI can, and maybe already is, used to handle background animation work - such as trees, buildings and what-not, but you'd still need character designers and animators to handle character animation. Besides AI having trouble with drawing hands, it requires using training data to be able to draw in the first place. Drawing trees and buildings with AI probably won't be much of an issue legally speaking, but the same can't be said with using the original copyrighted art work from other artists as training data for designing characters. MadanielFL said: but in the subs itself they do know the language. which is why we have totally accurate translations with no unnecessary inserted jokes such as "kill me now" in spy family and "she think she's the best because she knows she's the best" in spy classroom. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
Reply to MadanielFL
Scorptek said:
I expect these people to do their jobs properly
You expect them to do their job, but gets mad when they do their job and translates accordingly, only because of the "shitposty nature" lol, what a terrible argument. I expect these people to do their jobs properly
If doing their jobs means you need to have the wrong translation because people are afraid of "shitposty nature" then I feel bad for the translators with how specific you want them to do their job.
And about the other ones, yeah those exist, but anime characters don't even talk like how real Japanese people talk in real life, and there are many examples of characters using slang or even internet slang in their speech.
| @MadanielFL Again, cut out most of what I wrote and cherry picked few words. You are just a rude person arguing for the sake of argument without any actual substance, instead you twisted what I said. Not worth my time. |
DreamingBeats said: In fact, voice actors and actresses will likely be fine. Ehh not sure on that. Voice clones might be used for minor one time side characters. |
Reply to traed
MadanielFL said:
I think you mean SIE has history of censorship, not Sony itself.
I mean, Sony even produces ecchi anime, and some of the highest rated anime on your list were produced by Sony...
I think you mean SIE has history of censorship, not Sony itself.
I mean, Sony even produces ecchi anime, and some of the highest rated anime on your list were produced by Sony...
I didnt know it went under a separate division name for that but yeah i wasnt talking domestically.
MadanielFL said:
Nagatoro was literally using a short version of suspicious in Japanese, there is literally nothing wrong about that translation, except all the twitter users (that don't even speak Japanese) getting mad at it.
Nagatoro was literally using a short version of suspicious in Japanese, there is literally nothing wrong about that translation, except all the twitter users (that don't even speak Japanese) getting mad at it.
But from what bits of Japanese ive read about the Japanese shorten their words and sentences even more than English speakers do especially since they are very contextual. That would be like a direct translation where you use names in excess instead of pronouns. If you just shortened everything they do it would become unnatural sounding in some cases becoming broken English.
It just feels too meme sounding even though technically an actual shortened word (so not THAT bad being technically correct), i never heard anyone speak that way in person in my entire life ive only heard "suspicious". Maybe some people do it from online influence now but it will not last long just like "fam" seemingly died off in only a couple years. It is better to stick with something that has been around a while in normal use. Doesnt make sense for a sub to shorten even if original was short except cases with a really long line delivered, maybe dub but even a dub has other options like "suspect" or "dodgy" which is still a shorter syllable (2) count than "suspicious" (3) though I dont have the clip to check the number of times their mouth opened and closed to check if it can be worked in easy enough but should be since spoken casual English is so flexible. Like i get the argument for it being "sus" but doesnt this logic also make sense? Maybe it wouldnt have come off as bad if it wasnt memed into excess but hard to tell because you cant remove that context from the experience.
Actually im more annoyed seeing "Chad" and "Gigachad" in subs....i cant recall which but ive seen it and it is always annoying. What next is Karen going to be there too? It is worse because these are actual names and anyone not constantly online wont get it and just get confused since they are newer and likely wont last since so much modern slang doesnt last.
Ryuseishun said:
By overcompensated retaliation against a smaller group of problematic individuals, they’ve only worsened the issue. It really doesn’t help that the sudden surge of support for clearly questionable, “soulless” pre-programmed methods is all due to a growing of trust in human work now due to those aforementioned “woke localizers”. At this point, if this starts to seep into the anime industry in terms of voice acting AND animation, can it be even considered art anymore? Art is something that is what it is cause it’s done chiefly by human hand through where feelings and expressions are conveyed, not through some god damn automated program.
By overcompensated retaliation against a smaller group of problematic individuals, they’ve only worsened the issue. It really doesn’t help that the sudden surge of support for clearly questionable, “soulless” pre-programmed methods is all due to a growing of trust in human work now due to those aforementioned “woke localizers”. At this point, if this starts to seep into the anime industry in terms of voice acting AND animation, can it be even considered art anymore? Art is something that is what it is cause it’s done chiefly by human hand through where feelings and expressions are conveyed, not through some god damn automated program.
That isnt why LLMs are being used. It is because competition to get something out first. It will always be faster than any human ever could be and just isnt worth it to hire someone to put out low quality work to be so fast. It doesnt necessarily mean it will replace the human translators it just is there as a first round in many cases.
DreamWindow said:
I ain't reading all that shit, but hire better localizers and you won't have this problem. If it's good, it will be reflected in the work. If it's clearly self indulgent nonsense like a lot of localizers are doing, then they can be replaced. It's not a big deal. A truly good localization is an underrated aspect of entertainment and it has been on a sharp decline.
On the other hand, AI is so incoherent, that an absolute slop along these lines would be absolutely hilarious.
I ain't reading all that shit, but hire better localizers and you won't have this problem. If it's good, it will be reflected in the work. If it's clearly self indulgent nonsense like a lot of localizers are doing, then they can be replaced. It's not a big deal. A truly good localization is an underrated aspect of entertainment and it has been on a sharp decline.
On the other hand, AI is so incoherent, that an absolute slop along these lines would be absolutely hilarious.
Different kind of "AI" method I think. Where they can mess up potentially real bad is improper speech recognition to begin with before translation. If you want to test something out use DeepL it is free to translate text up to certain length at a time. It is better than Google Translate (possibly trolls mess with Google Translate results since you can suggest translations) most the time but makes plenty of errors still. What is being used for anime is WhisperAI though.
traed said: Different kind of "AI" method I think. Where they can mess up potentially real bad is improper speech recognition to begin with before translation. If you want to test something out use DeepL it is free to translate text up to certain length at a time. It is better than Google Translate (possibly trolls mess with Google Translate results since you can suggest translations) most the time but makes plenty of errors still. What is being used for anime is WhisperAI though. I know it's not the same, but I just think it would be funny if just one anime or manga let the AI go nuts with the translation. I think it would be really funny to have some ghost stories level slop but with AI. |
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
DreamingBeats said: I'm sure Hiroshi Thraser (half Japanese guy) who has translated more than 30+ light novels and manga, has no understanding of the Japanese language, and is just like Jamie Marchi who is dub script writer and not a translator..."she think she's the best because she knows she's the best" in spy classroom. Scorptek said: twisted what you said?instead you twisted what I said It's not my fault that you are contradicting yourself by asking for faithful translations, while also asking for them to not correctly translate a word... |
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Reply to MadanielFL
DreamingBeats said:
"she think she's the best because she knows she's the best" in spy classroom.
I'm sure Hiroshi Thraser (half Japanese guy) who has translated more than 30+ light novels and manga, has no understanding of the Japanese language, and is just like Jamie Marchi who is dub script writer and not a translator..."she think she's the best because she knows she's the best" in spy classroom.
Scorptek said:
instead you twisted what I said
twisted what you said?instead you twisted what I said
It's not my fault that you are contradicting yourself by asking for faithful translations, while also asking for them to not correctly translate a word...
MadanielFL said: I'm sure Hiroshi Thraser (half Japanese guy) who has translated more than 30+ light novels and manga, has no understanding of the Japanese language, and is just like Jamie Marchi who is dub script writer and not a translator... I don't care about his credentials. That translation was objectively wrong. Now, whether that change was made to make the sub more enjoyable is debatable. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
DreamingBeats said: And I was simply replying to that guy who said sub translations are passed to localizer which can alter the script. I don't care about his credentials. That translation was objectively wrong. Now, whether that change was made to make the sub more enjoyable is debatable. When in reality that only really happens on dubs, and in subs it's basically just the translator and the typesetter, no 'localizer" involved. All subs being accurate or not wasn't really relevant to that specific point I was replying to. |
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Reply to DreamWindow
traed said:
Different kind of "AI" method I think. Where they can mess up potentially real bad is improper speech recognition to begin with before translation. If you want to test something out use DeepL it is free to translate text up to certain length at a time. It is better than Google Translate (possibly trolls mess with Google Translate results since you can suggest translations) most the time but makes plenty of errors still. What is being used for anime is WhisperAI though.
Different kind of "AI" method I think. Where they can mess up potentially real bad is improper speech recognition to begin with before translation. If you want to test something out use DeepL it is free to translate text up to certain length at a time. It is better than Google Translate (possibly trolls mess with Google Translate results since you can suggest translations) most the time but makes plenty of errors still. What is being used for anime is WhisperAI though.
I know it's not the same, but I just think it would be funny if just one anime or manga let the AI go nuts with the translation. I think it would be really funny to have some ghost stories level slop but with AI.
| @DreamWindow Yeah. It is possible if it mistakes random sounds for speech then tries to translate it on top of that. |
| Eh, give it a few years when it improves some more. Here's hoping I can one day translate all the niche manga that have been dropped by translation teams by myself with ai one day. ;-; |
Reply to Zedlin
Eh, give it a few years when it improves some more. Here's hoping I can one day translate all the niche manga that have been dropped by translation teams by myself with ai one day. ;-;
| @Zedlin Wouldn't really work at least not using the kind of method used today. It would have to be actual general AI to do that. |
Reply to removed-user
Ai translation should also include Ancient Japanese
| @petran79, such knowledge doesn't even contains in usual dictionaries. |
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Reply to DreamingBeats
as a side note, someone used AI to fix the infamous Dragon Maid patriarchy dub scene, and it's surprisingly good.
| @DreamingBeats This is genuinely horrible lmao. "Toning it down for exposure" is a really garbage translation as it is not grammatically correct or sensical. "Showing a little less skin" would be better since it is close to the same syllable count while saying the same thing and making more grammatical and contextual sense if they were trying to go for a more sub accurate line. It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
| @Lucifrost That's not a counterargument. What you're saying supports the idea that evil, biased translators need to be put out of business. The idea was more to take the same sort of argument and reverse it, considering that there will always be some sort of bias by reversing what kind of bias is being called out. I could have probably worded it better but that was the basic idea. Probably wasn't the best thought out the way I wrote it and could have explained better. |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
Op is clearly trying to push lies and down play issues that youtubers have pointed out about these insane politically driven "translators" that have been directly changing any content they don't like and inserting political messaging into their translations.
The Youtubers who are covering this topic are not doing so in good faith at all. Most of the examples they bring up are from multiple YEARS ago. Youtubers like Rev Says Desu (what a cringe fucking name, literally means "Rev Says It Is". It is what? Stupid?), Hero Hei, and Asmongold are pretty much outrage bait channels that try to rile up anime fans (and gamers) using hateful rhetoric and generally have a major bias which clouds any actual critical judgement or fair points they have by framing it as a "woke vs anti-woke" thing. Instead of pointing out actual issues in translations such as mischaracterized lines, confusing word choice, ACTUAL CENSORSHIP (not this "I am butthurt about a queer character existing" crap, more like removing actual content), and clunky unnaturally translated dialogue, they get upset over LITERALLY ANYTHING mildly progressive such as transgender characters existing (a lot of these people will deny their identity despite most of the time it LITERALLY BEING THERE IN THE JAPANESE TEXT), mild jokes in dubs which are usually added to pad the lip flaps (and most of y'all don't watch dubs anyways so why the fuck would you even care), and the use of slang at all (even when it is appropriate for a character to be speaking like that). You can't claim that these sources are "unbiased" while using extreme right-wing arguments against mildly progressive langauge and jokes being in localized scripts for anime dubs. I could put up a counterargument that older localizations from the 90's and early 2000's were censored by politically driven companies to censor any progressive themes in anime such as Sailor Moon (which censored queer couples and transgender characters) and Yu-Gi-Oh (which censored a character's struggle with domestic violence and a nonbinary character's sex and gender identity in GX). You see how easily you could spin the arguments you are using against you?
The Dragon Maid situation is a great example of this and shows what a complete mockery of the original work they made it into (this is one of the most famous examples
That example is old as hell now. Dragon Maid came out 7 YEARS AGO and really isn't that relevant anymore. A LOT has changed in the industry since then with FUNimation, the studio who dubbed the show, being absorbed into Crunchyroll and no longer really existing in the state that it used to. That example was also ONLY IN THE DUB, which had to have script changes in order to fit lip flaps, keep the comedic timing, and adapt the jokes in the show to work in English, which has a completely different linguistic structure and cultural context than Japanese. If you REALLY wanted a version of the line that didn't punch up the joke to make fun of how it relates to Western society, the OFFICIAL subtitles had an alternate take on the line that all you people got so offended by that is much closer to the exact Japanese script. People who complained about this probably didn't even watch the dub anyways since most people who would be so offended over any minor script change would probably watch the show subtitled anyways. A dub is always going to need extra modification over just reading the subtitle script, so it isn't really fair to complain about a dub making minor alterations to fit since it was a throwaway line. It wasn't like they changed Lucoa's whole character to constantly be talking about feminism and socialism or something, it was a one-off joke. Using a 7-year-old example isn't really that strong of evidence, and it will only continue to weaken the more time passes since this isn't really something that is new anymore, this is old, regurgitated drama. Use a more recent example if you are going to criticize something, not an example that is almost a decade old, it really isn't the "owned the libs" moment you think it is.
These so called "translators" have changed many things and rewrote entire scripts because they don't like either the joke or are offended by it, remove a sexual moment because they don't like it, insert a political ideology and more.
Scripts have gotten much more accurate over the past 20 years and in general have much less complete rewrites and cuts than back in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. Denying this is flat out fallacious. The days of shows completely censoring any sensitive material, queer content, and sexual content are mostly behind us, with only a few kids shows like Pokémon, the Rush Duel era of Yu-Gi-Oh, and Beyblade still doing extensive cutting and rewrites to the script to the point where they diverge quite a bit. If you bring up an ecchi show as an example that is also not really valid since a lot of the times, the TV cuts which are already censored are given to the international licensors due to part of the sales strategy for these shows being an uncensored Blu-ray release with a lot of the content that needed to be removed for Japanese TV broadcast being added back in.
The complete disregard for the original works and then trying to act like they are the good guys and even calling the anime community "nazis" at points for wanting accurate translations when the anime community rightfully calls them out is not only disgusting but frankly just shows how they only want to use anime to push their ideas and think they can get away with it because the original creators might not be able to understand what is going on, which shows just how racist they are as well considering they are taking advantage over the Japanese creators.
Proof or it didn't happen. You also do release that the licensor generally has a say as to how much freedom they are given right? They have to approve the scripts before they go out.
also ai isn't even bad and frankly anything is better than the politically driven "localizers" pushing their ideology on Japanese media because even though ai has it's problems which are quickly lessening by the day (chap gpt 4 is already amazing for its pretty decent translations of hentai games and frankly the speed of improvements are incredible). The misinformation about ai content quality and youtubers to defend these localizers is pretty telling about what is going on here in this post frankly.
I have literally given direct evidence showing the issues with AI translations, as well as linked the pages to the manga to allow further research. These AI translations for Centaurs and Kamen Rider Kyuuga done by Ablaze Manga and Comics Titan respectively are of completely unacceptable quality and are complete nonsense due to their use of AI and "Machine Learning" algorithms instead of a human translator. The fact that you are so afraid of anything mildly political that you are willing to have a complete garbage and unacceptable product is really showing. You also do realize saying "CHAT GPT 4 IS GREAT AT TRANSLATING PORN" isn't really the W you think it is right? Most porn has extremely repetitive dialogue so of course it would be able to do it somewhat decently when half the lines are "ahh fuck yes ahh". Also, why the fuck would you trust some Youtubers who clearly show major anti-translator biases over someone who ACTUALLY FUCKING CAN SPEAK JAPANESE OR HAS SOURCES FROM PEOPLE WHO CAN SPEAK JAPANESE. These Youtubers have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.
I'm really happy to see people of the anime community gather together and not tolerate this garbage from these "localizers" as well as try to inform the original creators what is going on whenever possible so they don't tolerate this garbage and even let them know about ai or to use other actually trust worthy translators to translate the stories faithfully. The more we do this the faster we can put these so called "localizers" out of the job they clearly don't deserve and give it to people who actually deserve it instead. It truly is sad we have gotten to the point of ai and fansubs being far more reliable than "official" translations as well as the fact that people actually have to research the quality of official translations of a product before buying it to avoid getting a butchered product which also leads to more pirating since people are not going to want to spend money on purposely mistranslated products.
The people of this community who are "banding together" are a vocal minority of angry immature incels who have 0 knowledge of the Japanese language, the translation process, or even how language itself works. If you people seriously want to put translators out of a job, you are insane assholes since you are wishing that people lose their livelihood and may go homeless, all just because you don't like how they translated a fucking cartoon or comic book. Do you realize how genuinely insane that sounds. Fansubs have 0 quality check and can literally be shit out with as many inaccuracies or biases the creator has because there are no checks from licensors or any standards that have to be met. AI translations are overall less reliable than human translations from many testimonials I have seen across the internet from users trying to use services like Chat GPT and DeepL to translate unlocalized light novels. It creates just an insufferable mess that is extremely hard to follow and isn't up to any professional standards. If you genuinely believe that getting a butchered nonsensical product with more errors than a human would make is "good enough", then eat up your slop but don't be surprised if a majority of people don't want to engage with it because it is absolute dogshit quality.
For those wanting to learn more about this there are many youtubers talking about this,to talk about the insanity that is the "localizers" and how they are getting caught in their own lies and called out on their garbage and how they laugh in the face of the anime community and are proud of their mistranslations. Of course there are others as well like Rev says desu for example who should have a few videos on this topic as well.
Rev is an outrage bait Youtuber who is a complete jackass and pushes hateful views onto the anime community, for the love of God people need to stop listening to that jackass and the vomit that comes out of his loli-loving mouth. He is not a reliable source and has extreme biases against translators and has 0 actual experience with the translation and localization process. Rev is about as unreliable of a source as you can get. He is the equivalent of that MAULer asshole and the Fandom Menace from the Star Wars community to the anime community. You have literally not even provided real evidence for any of his claims, just regurgitated them like an old grandma whining about vaccines cuz some wackjob on the news told her it was poison.
Always stay informed my fellow anime lovers and don't let these "localizers" continue to destroy the thing we love.
The only one destroying anything is the uneducated fans who have 0 fucking idea what they are talking about, pushing for AI translation to destroy the industry, and pushing this "anti-woke" culture war bs so heavily in this community making it an unwelcome place for anyone who isn't some basement dwelling man who's watched 500 hours of animated porn of underage girls. Call me a "twitter freak", call me an "SJW", call me a "libtard", I don't care. I will not let this community actively slander those who work so hard to bring us the content we love to a wider audience outside of Japan. They are hardworking individuals with a really tough job and do not get nearly the credit they deserve because of how toxic and hateful this community has gotten.
LSSJ_Gaming said: This really isn't a counter-argument. This just proves further that localizers are bad, and that they censor stuff and remove the original meanings of things. All we want is an accurate translation, with some translators notes on slang when necessary. And since the localizers won't do it, nobody is sad that AI will take their jobs. AI isn't good either, but it is the lesser evil at this point. In the end, the only way we could win is to circumvent the entire system of localization, using teams of translators for each show, instead of just one person. These people should not be super-political, meaning no far-right or far-left people. There may also be some AI assistance in there, but it should be a smaller part of the whole thing.I could put up a counterargument that older localizations from the 90's and early 2000's were censored by politically driven companies to censor any progressive themes in anime such as Sailor Moon (which censored queer couples and transgender characters) and Yu-Gi-Oh (which censored a character's struggle with domestic violence and a nonbinary character's sex and gender identity in GX). You see how easily you could spin the arguments you are using against you? |
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@DreamingBeats
This is genuinely horrible lmao. "Toning it down for exposure" is a really garbage translation as it is not grammatically correct or sensical. "Showing a little less skin" would be better since it is close to the same syllable count while saying the same thing and making more grammatical and contextual sense if they were trying to go for a more sub accurate line. It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent
This is genuinely horrible lmao. "Toning it down for exposure" is a really garbage translation as it is not grammatically correct or sensical. "Showing a little less skin" would be better since it is close to the same syllable count while saying the same thing and making more grammatical and contextual sense if they were trying to go for a more sub accurate line. It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent
LSSJ_Gaming said: It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent It also isn't acceptable to inject random political BS into things when there wasn't any in the original... |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas "Woof" -Tobiichi Origami "Are you trying to turn the dormitory into a strip club!?! -Atena Saotome |
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@DreamingBeats
This is genuinely horrible lmao. "Toning it down for exposure" is a really garbage translation as it is not grammatically correct or sensical. "Showing a little less skin" would be better since it is close to the same syllable count while saying the same thing and making more grammatical and contextual sense if they were trying to go for a more sub accurate line. It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent
This is genuinely horrible lmao. "Toning it down for exposure" is a really garbage translation as it is not grammatically correct or sensical. "Showing a little less skin" would be better since it is close to the same syllable count while saying the same thing and making more grammatical and contextual sense if they were trying to go for a more sub accurate line. It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent
| @LSSJ_Gaming but changing the authors work to fit your political agenda is total cool. Lol cry more |
Reply to Piromysl
Sorry, bruh, but wokealisers won't be vandalising source materials anymore.
AI technology is rapidly developing with lighting speed and new featured being improved and added on weekly basis. It is only a matter of time before it gets fixed and you declaring victory over a prototype having room for improvement is rather petty.
So far it looks actually very promising.
AI technology is rapidly developing with lighting speed and new featured being improved and added on weekly basis. It is only a matter of time before it gets fixed and you declaring victory over a prototype having room for improvement is rather petty.
So far it looks actually very promising.
| @Piromysl Sadly, I'm betting the Wokes will pay to get their own use of AI and program them to act Woke itself for them... |
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@DreamingBeats
This is genuinely horrible lmao. "Toning it down for exposure" is a really garbage translation as it is not grammatically correct or sensical. "Showing a little less skin" would be better since it is close to the same syllable count while saying the same thing and making more grammatical and contextual sense if they were trying to go for a more sub accurate line. It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent
This is genuinely horrible lmao. "Toning it down for exposure" is a really garbage translation as it is not grammatically correct or sensical. "Showing a little less skin" would be better since it is close to the same syllable count while saying the same thing and making more grammatical and contextual sense if they were trying to go for a more sub accurate line. It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent
| @LSSJ_Gaming If you think this is horrible, you must think their woke version shouldn't exist in general then, right? RIGHT?! EAT THE RICH! So they say. Lol But regardless, Jamie deserves this railing. ESPECIALLY after being one of the main culprits involved in destroying poor, sweet, pure, wholesome, obviously innocent Vic Mignogna's career... |
Reply to Scorptek
@MadanielFL
I like how you come in, pick three words from what I said and ignore everything else. Using "sus" in that instance was not a smart way to translate it judging by it being associated with Among Us shitposts. And you also forgot about the word "gigachad" which is just pure meme culture. Also like I mentioned before these localizers aren't speaking japanese themself. Translators do and provide script for localizer to adapt afterwards. There is plenty wrong with Nagatoro subs.
I like how you come in, pick three words from what I said and ignore everything else. Using "sus" in that instance was not a smart way to translate it judging by it being associated with Among Us shitposts. And you also forgot about the word "gigachad" which is just pure meme culture. Also like I mentioned before these localizers aren't speaking japanese themself. Translators do and provide script for localizer to adapt afterwards. There is plenty wrong with Nagatoro subs.
| @Scorptek I mean Nagatoro is a bratty teenager, her using slang in the subtitles makes logical sense and is consistent with her character |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
| It's a shame innocent and genuinely passionate people may be caught up in this mess. But good riddance to those who tried to use it to push their political agendas. People are sick of politics being pushed into every form of media. The scary thing is that this VA at the centre of all this isn't even the worst or the only person who's guilty of this mindset e.g. Yukiko's Eng VA from Persona 4. And anyway, it's one thing for the majority of the western anime community to dislike it, but even the Japanese people themselves hate it, and it's weird that some western people say they're "wrong" and trying to act on their behalf, when it's literally something from their country and something that represents them and their culture. |
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@Scorptek
I mean Nagatoro is a bratty teenager, her using slang in the subtitles makes logical sense and is consistent with her character
I mean Nagatoro is a bratty teenager, her using slang in the subtitles makes logical sense and is consistent with her character
| @LSSJ_Gaming It is not for anyone to decide what makes sense for her to say except for the author. And author didn't make her use shitty internet meme speech. I don't want them to see talk like "he done rizzed her up like a gigachad with a swag" just because they are from highschool. Characters in the manga should talk like people from JAPAN and NOT from USA. Unless stated otherwise by original artist. I just think they should be professionals when doing translations and respect source materials not shit allover it. It is their job, if they want to be writers just write own book or manga. It is sometimes shocking how much better quality fan translation can deliver, which is most often unpaid work of passionate person who loves to read manga. |
ScorptekJan 15, 4:28 PM
| Hey, it's you again. Fuck the localization team if they can't translate properly for shit, okay? You don't get to call yourself a professional if you don't earn it. Now, granted I'm not familiar with all these localization issues people are talking about. I'm only aware of the recent dragon maid dub controversy which resurfaced after all this time. But in that thread, she says "most of the team doesn't know Japanese". I don't know if she meant her own team which worked on dragon maid or localizer teams in general. That is beside the point. Is that what you call """professionals"""? Again, dragon maid is only an example here. But if localizers choose to translate something far too different from the original that means they aren't good with their job. And do you know what happens with people who aren't good at their job? They get criticized, are expected to do it better from now on, or let themselves go or get fired. AI should just replace people who can't do their job properly. At least AIs don't have feelings. Challenge: @LSSJ_Gaming not turning everything into queer, lgbtq issue (LEVEL: IMPOSSIBLE) Let's see how long they last. |
Yuu_KanzakiJan 15, 4:35 PM
"Nobody could laugh at someone who's trying their hardest" -Machio- |
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@DreamingBeats
This is genuinely horrible lmao. "Toning it down for exposure" is a really garbage translation as it is not grammatically correct or sensical. "Showing a little less skin" would be better since it is close to the same syllable count while saying the same thing and making more grammatical and contextual sense if they were trying to go for a more sub accurate line. It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent
This is genuinely horrible lmao. "Toning it down for exposure" is a really garbage translation as it is not grammatically correct or sensical. "Showing a little less skin" would be better since it is close to the same syllable count while saying the same thing and making more grammatical and contextual sense if they were trying to go for a more sub accurate line. It is also NOT ACCEPTABLE to create AI voices of actors without their consent
| @LSSJ_Gaming Yeah that's one way to phrase it that is more natural and grammatical (not that people always speak officially grammatically correct though). I don't think that was the intend though they were just getting the translation elsewhere to prove a point in an awkward way though using the flawed phrasing. Eh it kinda depends on the use intent and personally I could go either way since i see both sides of things from perspective of agency as well as creative freedom of expression. In that context of that example it isn't really that different from what people did before of taking audio clips from different scenes and splicing them together to form sentences which generally falls under fair use requirements as parody or demonstration (i cant recall all the rules and am a bit busy to look them up atm). The difference being it's a more advanced version of that in a way. It should be noted voice clones aren't all perfect copies of the original if they were only sampling short amounts of audio and guess what certain sounds might be so often you can with your own ears tell it's not quite like the original person in many cases (though difficult other times when they use a large amount of recordings). Also isn't particularly different from sampling of voice audio to be used in music or taking clips from an anime and making an AMV which is a grey area sometimes falling in fair use sometimes not. The legal ownership doesnt actually belong to the voice of the person but the company who did the dub. Those also aren't too different from impressions though impressions is further removed from the original media and person even if they sounded exactly the same. This potentially leads to issue of president for silencing people for having similar sounding voices which would be a weird scenario although unlikely since obviously there is a difference between someone's likeness versus the likeness of someone else like them but point is that nothing is entirely unique to an individual if it's an imperfect copy of that individual which is why it's not clear cut and paste. It would be different if someone was profiting commercially from a voice clone of someone or voice cloning someone with their real likeness and normal voice in something unrelated to any specific media and slandering them. Also you cant get permission from dead people either which is another layer of complexity. It's just not really so simple and straight forward as you're implying since ethics and law generally are complicated and you can't just pretend this technology will vanish magically from existence once something is done it's done and cant be undone. Of course I'd rather see someone do voice acting of their own but for some shitpost that is labelled as AI clearly, it's kinda not much sense to be overly concerned over such cases. There is all kinds of nuances I cant really cover everything there is arguments for and against various uses. |
traedJan 15, 5:12 PM
Reply to ForgotEyeWasHere
LSSJ_Gaming said:
I could put up a counterargument that older localizations from the 90's and early 2000's were censored by politically driven companies to censor any progressive themes in anime such as Sailor Moon (which censored queer couples and transgender characters) and Yu-Gi-Oh (which censored a character's struggle with domestic violence and a nonbinary character's sex and gender identity in GX). You see how easily you could spin the arguments you are using against you?
This really isn't a counter-argument. This just proves further that localizers are bad, and that they censor stuff and remove the original meanings of things. All we want is an accurate translation, with some translators notes on slang when necessary. And since the localizers won't do it, nobody is sad that AI will take their jobs. AI isn't good either, but it is the lesser evil at this point. In the end, the only way we could win is to circumvent the entire system of localization, using teams of translators for each show, instead of just one person. These people should not be super-political, meaning no far-right or far-left people. There may also be some AI assistance in there, but it should be a smaller part of the whole thing.I could put up a counterargument that older localizations from the 90's and early 2000's were censored by politically driven companies to censor any progressive themes in anime such as Sailor Moon (which censored queer couples and transgender characters) and Yu-Gi-Oh (which censored a character's struggle with domestic violence and a nonbinary character's sex and gender identity in GX). You see how easily you could spin the arguments you are using against you?
| @ForgotEyeWasHere I addressed at one point that Scripts have gotten much more accurate over the past 20 years and in general have much less complete rewrites and cuts than back in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. The days of shows completely censoring any sensitive material, queer content, and sexual content are mostly behind us, with only a few kids shows like Pokémon, the Rush Duel era of Yu-Gi-Oh, and Beyblade still doing extensive cutting and rewrites to the script to the point where they diverge quite a bit. Localization standards evolve over time and have drastically evolved to be a lot more faithful to the original scripts. Long ago were the days where your lesbian couples became cousins, nonbinary intersex demons had to be given extra breasts, anime heroes had to be flawless like Superman, and nudity was banned. As much as people give FUNimation shit, they were actually pretty responsible for pushing more accurate dubs of anime, which was especially noteworthy when they scooped up the license for One Piece from 4Kids and reverted all the censorship that 4Kids did to the series, going back and redubbing all those episodes completely uncensored. Sure, there may be some progressive jokes in dubs, but dubs generally have to make minor alterations to the script to fit things like lip flaps, making sure the dialogue reads naturally, making a series understandable and relatable to the new market just like it was in the original audience, modifying jokes to land better in English, and the licensor does have to approve the script before it releases. What may work when read in your head doesn't always work when spoken out and this isn't anything exclusive to anime either, feature film adaptations of novels will generally reword or rewrite dialogue to get across similar meaning while feeling more natural in the spoken language. Translator notes are fine in a manga (Kodansha manga tend to contain them in the back of the volume for some series and they are great reads), but they are fucking horrid in anime. They take up far too much real estate on screen and distract from the viewing experience. A cool idea would be to maybe do a translator or dub scriptwriter commentary track on a home video release, but that would probably never happen due to how horrible both the anime industry and fans treat translators. Most translators go completely uncredited for their work, and those who do get credited tend to be harassed to hell and back by irrationally upset fans who didn't exactly like how maybe one or two lines were translated, and bullied until they delete all their social medias. AI IS the Greater evil. It steals jobs away from people who try their hardest to make a decent product, who get underpaid and rarely if ever credited for their laborious work at all. Localization and translation are a very tough task and one that is often thankless. Localization IS inherently a part of translation as a script always needs to be modified somewhat to work in a new language and convey the intended meaning, especially when you are dealing with languages like English and Japanese which are so linguistically different. Having a team of translators would be nice for anime, but it will never happen due to how cheap, money hungry, and greedy the corporations who distribute anime in the West are, and translators not being unionized. Video games tend to have teams of translators but only because games have gotten so large these days and deadlines are so tight that these greedy corporations almost see it as begrudgingly necessary to have multiple people work on it. You also CAN'T just ban people from translating just because of them being progressive, that's stupid and most likely illegal as that would fall under hiring discrimination. AI assistants could be fine in the future, but it SHOULD NOT translate the whole thing, it should really only be used for stuff like proofreading, grammar, and other things like that since AI can't really understand concepts such as cultural context |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
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