Why has shonen suddenly become so popular to hate?

RobertBobert said:
I don't think the most general "90% of people are idiots" answer is a sufficient answer to my question. You're just trying to rationalize a generalized bias. Not to mention that the reference to scores when we talk about unfounded criticism is pretty ironic in itself. You are literally basing fan criticism on fan criticism, that is.

MySweetLucifer2 said:
I never claimed to be an expert. I solely speak my words. To me MHA is just another generic Shonen that never reached the heights of his elders. I love Battle-Shonen and that's why I would like it to progress and do different things. For example, I think if Bakugo was the main-character it would've been way better and even innovative since he's not immediately likeable. He even had something resembling character-development. But no, it has to be the generic Shonen template, but watered the fuck down, since the MC isn't even at least entertaining to watch as a character. 

curvedtree said:

LOL didn't know you were trolling, have a good one.

StarfireDragon said:
I thought it was always the easy thing to hate.

thomotructiep said:
The shift in attitudes towards shonen anime and its fans in Western culture is influenced by several factors. It's important to note that not all Western fans have turned against shonen, and there are still many who appreciate and enjoy it. However, there are a few reasons that might contribute to the negative sentiments you've observed.
Oversaturation: Shonen anime has become incredibly popular and prevalent in recent years. With its wide reach and mainstream success, it has attracted a larger and more diverse audience. As a result, some fans who were initially drawn to shonen may have grown tired of its formulaic tropes, predictable storylines, or repetitive themes. This oversaturation can lead to criticism and a desire for something different.
Backlash against mainstream success: When a particular genre or medium gains significant popularity, there is often a counter-movement or backlash from those who feel it has become too mainstream or overhyped. Some fans may perceive shonen as the "popular" choice, and as a result, they distance themselves from it to maintain a sense of uniqueness or exclusivity.
Online culture and trolling: The rise of social media and internet culture has provided a platform for anonymous users to express their opinions, often in a confrontational or provocative manner. This can lead to the amplification of negative sentiments towards shonen and its fans, as trolling and online arguments can escalate quickly. Additionally, some people may adopt derogatory terms or language to gain attention or fit in with certain online communities.
Cultural differences and misinterpretations: Anime and manga are deeply rooted in Japanese culture, and shonen, in particular, embodies many cultural values and storytelling traditions specific to Japan. When Western fans engage with these works, there can be a disconnect or misinterpretation of certain elements. This can lead to criticism or mockery, albeit sometimes unintentional, due to a lack of understanding or cultural context.
Gatekeeping and elitism: Unfortunately, some fans develop a sense of superiority or elitism based on their preferences or knowledge of anime and manga. This can manifest as an attitude of disdain towards shonen, which is often seen as mainstream or less intellectually stimulating compared to other genres. These individuals may use derogatory terms to belittle shonen fans in an attempt to establish their own perceived superiority.

RobertBobert said:


You literally sound like a very primitive hater and after that try to accuse me of passive aggression when I start mocking it? OK.

KittenCuddler said:
It's definitely up there, but I'm not sure it's as easy as Isekai or shoujo.


Those seem like some good ideas. Oversaturation in particular is an interesting thought imo. I would get bored eating the same food every meal,  or doing the same work every day. Surely this applies to anime watching too.


I love when people continue to bait me into a pointless argument, while simultaneously attacking my character as being that of a "hater" rather than countering my arguments. You continue to pointlessly squawk the same complaints, likely because  you sincerely do not understand my irony about this. I don't take abstract complaints seriously from ignorant people who can't even understand the basics of debate. Further conversation is meaningless. Say whatever you want, just don't waste my time on ignorant words please. There is too much of this in my life.

RobertBobert said:
Can anyone explain to me when and why Western fans went from literally worshiping shonen to using any loophole to attack shonen and its fans?

GlennMagusHarvey said:
I know this feel because I will go to a con and see a bunch of merch for stuff I am not a fan of and feel mildly irritated. Even though I know full well that if that merch were all for stuff I do like I would be freaking broke before getting through even half the con

RobertBobert said:
For the person who allegedly baited for this argument, you are too aggressively returning to it and too obviously trying to attract attention with abstract general statements. And yes, I'll still repeat it, your argument is literally a very primitive generalized hate speech.

Jolllpo said:

I apppreciate the great lengths you go to feed the troll.

GlennMagusHarvey said:
You might note that it's not the same people doing both, usually.

But, basically, shounen got popular.  And then other people found other stuff, and started resenting that popularity, and so now it got haters.  And as other stuff also got more popular, so too did being a shounen hater.

I think there's probably some sort of gut reaction of resentment, to at least a small degree, whenever a person sees someone else expressing enthusiasm for something that that first person doesn't themselves like, and this feeling probably gets blown out of proportion for (1) shows that get a ton of marketing and fan chatter, generally because they're already popular, and (2) genres that that person already dislikes.

I know this feel because I will go to a con and see a bunch of merch for stuff I am not a fan of and feel mildly irritated.  Even though I know full well that if that merch were all for stuff I do like I would be freaking broke before getting through even half the con.

also f### funko pops; ugly-a## pieces of s###

KittenCuddler said:
I'm sorry, but right now you're continuing to do exactly what I was talking about. Deliberately getting my attention and blaming myself for it.

I'm a big believer in the idea that all folks deserve basic human rights, such as shelter, water, and food!

Dang, that's another good thought! For certain some of the people that be hatin' on shounen are simply different from the folks that like the stuff. (Funko pops are U-G-L-Y)

GlennMagusHarvey said:
You might note that it's not the same people doing both, usually.

But, basically, shounen got popular.  And then other people found other stuff, and started resenting that popularity, and so now it got haters.  And as other stuff also got more popular, so too did being a shounen hater.

I think there's probably some sort of gut reaction of resentment, to at least a small degree, whenever a person sees someone else expressing enthusiasm for something that that first person doesn't themselves like, and this feeling probably gets blown out of proportion for (1) shows that get a ton of marketing and fan chatter, generally because they're already popular, and (2) genres that that person already dislikes.

I know this feel because I will go to a con and see a bunch of merch for stuff I am not a fan of and feel mildly irritated.  Even though I know full well that if that merch were all for stuff I do like I would be freaking broke before getting through even half the con.

also f### funko pops; ugly-a## pieces of s###

SoldierDream said:
"Suddenly"? Have you been living under a rock or something all this time? It's been "popular to hate" for at least 20 years already.

vitor03 said:
2023 and we know nowdays almost every men on earth are overemotional little bitches

Pampop said:

No wonder your favorite anime is One Piece.

Howdym8 said:
Let's face it, most anime are trash or else if they were, they would be mainstream like Shonen. Only a few of them are good.

DigiCat said:

Uh-huh... that why your comments are locked? Too emotional to risk interacting with anyone you don't 100% agree with?

Howdym8 said:
Let's face it, most anime are trash or else if they were good, they would be mainstream like Shonen. Only a few of them are good.

Purple_Gh0st24 said:
One should never equate popularity with quality. Junk food isn't the healthiest thing you could eat, but it is the easiest

DigiCat said:

Junk food lacks quality in terms of healthyness, but it makes up in the quality of tastyness

Purple_Gh0st24 said:
True. It depends on your taste, but many people like the taste of junk food. This paired with the fact it's accessible makes it easy to eat. It's okay to like it, but it would be a problem if one only eats junk food, ignoring all the better food they could eat instead

Howdym8 said:
While they are predictable, they actually have plots and don't revolve around huge cleavage and cringe personalities shoving on your face. 

Let's face it, most anime are trash or else if they were good, they would be mainstream like Shonen. Only a few of them are good.

triplepsycho said:
Look, I love shounen, but this is a terrible take.

1. Most shounen are not mainstream. That's just survivor's bias. Take a look at the WSJ catalogue; there are series getting canceled every few months, often multiple at a time. And that's one magazine of many.

2. Popularity can be a sign of quality, but they aren't the same thing. There are mainstream series that are regarded as being bad, and there are obscure series that are regarded as masterpieces.

3. Many shounen out there really aren't predictable (Mob Psycho 100 for example). Yes, some certainly are, but that's true about every genre.

4. Non-shounen series have plots too. And not just shallow ones either. Now, I'm not speaking from personal experience, but by all accounts, Berserk has an extremely in depth and action packed plot. And it isn't the least bit shounen. There are more genres than just shounen and slice of life.

5. Continuing on that, you don't need an exciting plot for a good story. Slice of life, as an example, will often have quality writing through its characters rather than its plot; they generally put a bigger focus on the characters.

6. If you think "huge cleavage" (by which I assume you mean sexual fanservice) isn't a common thing in shounen, that's completely mistaken. Series like Fairy Tail, Seven Deadly Sins, and many others are full of it. I mean, even One Piece has some. And there are numerous non-shounen series which don't have it, too. Fanservice is a thing common in anime in general, and isn't really tied to any specific genres aside from ecchi.

7. You say most anime is trash, but what percentage of anime have you actually watched? Plus, there's a big difference between most anime being TRASH and most anime being "not your taste" (which, although not provable, is likely true for almost any person.)


I hope you don't take this as a personal attack, I just think this is a poorly informed opinion on the whole thing. Give some more non-shounen things a shot; you might find yourself enjoying some of them. And maybe you won't, which is fine too, but that doesn't make them altogether "worse" than the genres you enjoy

DigiCat said:

That is true too :)

No for the mandatory question, what anime are in your opinion "junk food" and what the "good food"?

Purple_Gh0st24 said:

Examples of "Junk food" anime would be stuff like The Asterisk War, I Got a Cheat Skill in Another World and Became Unrivaled in The Real World, Pan de Peace!, Sword Art Online, High School DxD, Diabolik Lovers, and Fairy Tale.
Examples of "Healthy" anime would be Angel's Egg, Revolutionary Girl Utena, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, the Monogatari series, almost every Ghibli film, Belladonna of Sadness, Gurren Lagann, Mobile Suit Gundam, Ojamajo Doremi, K-ON!, Ghost in the Shell, practically anything directed by Sotoshi Kon, Birth, Cowboy Bebop, Fullmetal Alchemist, Princess Tutu, FLCL (original only), Mob Psycho 100, and Wolf Children.

This isn't to say "x is objectively bad" or "y is objectively good," I don't believe in objectivity in art. It's difficult to define what exactly makes something "junk food," but I think it's something you can just feel. Everyone's going to like some junk food and/or dislike some healthy food, but as long as you keep a good balance you're dong okay.

You didn't ask, but some "junk food" anime I like include To LOVE-Ru, B-gata H-kei (this one's almost healthy), A-Channel, Mushoku Tensei, and Garzey's Wing (full fat, very unhealthy). An example of a "healthy" anime I didn't quite like is Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence (it makes my head hurt, and I'm the kind of person that can watch Serial Experiments Lain without issue).

RainbowToffee said:
The reason anime for the shounen demographic is often hated is that it usually fits a simple list of traits:

• Easy to predict. (Repetitive structure, cliche plot elements, big strong protagonist man loses once then beats the big bad through the power of friendship, love, or dedication)
  
• Very trope-y. (Isekai, manic pixie dream waifu, etc.)
  
• Because they're popular in Japan, they get way too many seasons and become overrated and over-saturated and your favorite show fails to get a second season and you feel personally spited.
  
• Too high of a budget for something with "low artistic merit".
  

Not all shounen fits this, but it's the genre's reputation.

Purple_Gh0st24 said:
Examples of "Junk food" anime would be stuff like The Asterisk War, I Got a Cheat Skill in Another World and Became Unrivaled in The Real World, Pan de Peace!, Sword Art Online, High School DxD, Diabolik Lovers, and Fairy Tale.
Examples of "Healthy" anime would be Angel's Egg, Revolutionary Girl Utena, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, the Monogatari series, almost every Ghibli film, Belladonna of Sadness, Gurren Lagann, Mobile Suit Gundam, Ojamajo Doremi, K-ON!, Ghost in the Shell, practically anything directed by Sotoshi Kon, Birth, Cowboy Bebop, Fullmetal Alchemist, Princess Tutu, FLCL (original only), Mob Psycho 100, and Wolf Children.

This isn't to say "x is objectively bad" or "y is objectively good," I don't believe in objectivity in art. It's difficult to define what exactly makes something "junk food," but I think it's something you can just feel. Everyone's going to like some junk food and/or dislike some healthy food, but as long as you keep a good balance you're dong okay.

You didn't ask, but some "junk food" anime I like include To LOVE-Ru, B-gata H-kei (this one's almost healthy), A-Channel, Mushoku Tensei, and Garzey's Wing (full fat, very unhealthy). An example of a "healthy" anime I didn't quite like is Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence (it makes my head hurt, and I'm the kind of person that can watch Serial Experiments Lain without issue)

Overlord_13 said:
Analogy itself is problematic and we shouldn't dig deep in that but what you did essentially is that series I like are "healthy" anime md series I don't like are "junk" anime

DigiCat said:

Now i will forever see Sword Art Online as this Burger King birger

Translation: i love SAO

Diabolik Lovers isn't junk food, it's poison

Gotta say i'm quite happy to see you put Ojamajo Doremi in the healthy food section, i grew up watching it :)



Yes cuz having fun making comparisons is problamatic

vitor03 said:
2023 and we know nowdays almost every men on earth are overemotional little bitches

RainbowToffee said:
The reason anime for the shounen demographic is often hated is that it usually fits a simple list of traits:

• Easy to predict. (Repetitive structure, cliche plot elements, big strong protagonist man loses once then beats the big bad through the power of friendship, love, or dedication)
  
• Very trope-y. (Isekai, manic pixie dream waifu, etc.)
  
• Because they're popular in Japan, they get way too many seasons and become overrated and over-saturated and your favorite show fails to get a second season and you feel personally spited.
  
• Too high of a budget for something with "low artistic merit".
  

Not all shounen fits this, but it's the genre's reputation.

RobertBobert said:
Sorry, but "no, you" is one of the most lazy and lame arguments you can make in response to an accusation. Also, despite complaining about baiting, you keep trying hard to get my attention even after what could have been perceived as a microphone toss.

DigiCat said:

Much better put toghether than the dude you quoted, though i interpreted his comment a bit differently

"most anime are trash", that is a generelization, but i wouldn't take it so literally (at least i hope he don't mean it literally), but statistically speaking, in any large medium, most of it will be between average and trash, does not mean there won't be anything enjoyeble in there, but the % of really really good shows, both popular and obscure, is pretty low

The only flaw in your comment is... damn... DAMN... Berserk is a Seinen!

Prinzesschen said:
Probably because people see the flaws in generic shounen these days

Reeei said:
It's just the usual case about "hating popular stuff" I guess? I don't know. I am kinda out of the loop of anime trends these days, but I suppose you talking about stuff like Jujutsu Kaisen and Demon Slayer..? haven't got around those two but pretty sure it's just about popularity things as I don't think Mob Psycho get that much of hate

RobertBobert said:
@KittenCuddler Lol don't even try. If you had not returned my attention, I would have even forgotten about your participation in this thread. Not to mention that in recent days your contribution to this discussion has literally consisted in extremely demonstrative support for any opinion that criticizes the genre, even if it is complete nonsense. Typical behavior for a person who has lost an argument and is now trying to strengthen their position.

At least according to this thread, most of these "flaws" and "generic shows" just exist in the head of salty haters who are looking for any reason to hate the genre because of the fans they don't like.

KittenCuddler said:
I'm sure there's some disdain due to the general popularity, but many folks don't care for shounen in general. For example, I didn't care for Demon Slayer outside of it's animation because I just found it unwilling to take any risks either in terms of its story or characters. It felt very flat and uninspired, like I had seen it a dozen times before with a different coat of paint.

How to say, that you're toxic and bigoted person, while don't say directly that you're toxis and bigoted person.

Reeei said:
It's just the usual case about "hating popular stuff" I guess? I don't know. I am kinda out of the loop of anime trends these days, but I suppose you talking about stuff like Jujutsu Kaisen and Demon Slayer..? haven't got around those two but pretty sure it's just about popularity things as I don't think Mob Psycho get that much of hate

Overlord_13 said:

Analogy itself is problematic and we shouldn't dig deep in that but what you did essentially is that series I like are "healthy" anime md series I don't like are "junk" anime.

What distinguishes as "healthy" and and what are "junk"?

Because in terms of food, (loosely defining) junk food are foods which are low in nutritions and high in fat, sugar, salt etc.
Healthy food is high in nutritions.

Eating junk food is bad for health but watching those junk anime you mentioned has no negative impact on oneself as long they enjoy that series.
Even if somebody stickes exclusively to this junk anime you mentioned without watching anything else, it's not at all bad. People watch anime for fun, sticking to something which you enjoy has no negative impact. When they get bored they will explore new things. Because at that time those series they were enjoying earlier become unenjoyable.
It's not like your food analogy.

RobertBobert said:
Can anyone explain to me when and why Western fans went from literally worshiping shonen to using any loophole to attack shonen and its fans? I understand that all things have their fans and their haters, but for the last year or two, it seems to me more and more that hatred of shonen is becoming somehow excessive or even insane. To the point where I see normies attacking shonen just to seem like cool anime fans. For example, a couple of people used "shonen MC" quite seriously when talking to me with the expectation that I would understand it as a derogatory term without any problems. Can anyone explain this?

RobertBobert said:
My anime horizons are many times wider than most of these haters who can't even argue their position. At the same time, many of my favorite shows are battle shonens. Is there something wrong with me?