One Piece Chapter 1044 Discussion

Danpmss said:


Hey, long time no see you in One Piece discussions.

What I meant with the foreshadowing in Skypeia is just about that panel in 1018 being a callback to a much earlier panel of Luffy. Which was put in there as a hint to be compared and theorized with before the reveal we just got, in the beginning of last year.

That one especifically doesn't necessarily need to have been planned since around that time, though. If anything, Skypeia was supposed to be the near the end of the story at one point, I would be most positive it wasn't.

CG-Silver said:


Even though Nika wasn't namedropped earlier, I believe introducing Joyboy way earlier in the series served as an adequate pre-cursor to the current events. Moreover, Luffy's durability and immediate recovery time can now partially be credited to his Zoan fruit abilities (since Zoan's are known to recover quicker and be more durable).

*Moreover, ever since the start of the series, the fact that Shanks even had the Gomu Gomu no Mi was enough of a hint that it wasn't going to be a simple rubber fruit.* And I think credit shouldn't be taken away from Luffy for using it so innovatively.

So, Luffy's fruit being special isn't even the most surprising thing or the biggest deal. BUT what I'm surprised about is why no one is mentioning the elephant in the room. The Gorosei mentions that Luffy's fruit is "The most ridiculous power in the world". I don't believe they mean it in the sense that the fruit is especially too powerful or anything. I believe they used this phrase to signify that it has a ridiculous ability to inspire others. So, the questions really begs: Throughout the series, Luffy was shown to be a magnetic and inspiring personality, the freest man alive. Was it all just Luffy or was it the devil fruit?

Nidhoeggr said:
Extremely controversial decision by Oda to go for a unique Zoan fruit based on someone that has - by Oda's standards - barely been fareshadowed. Nika wasn't namedropped in Skypeia at all (and you could argue that a large part of the mythology applied to the giant snakes being revered as sun gods back then due to Aztec myths as a theming device) and both Who's Who randomly spouting conspiracies at Jimbei 30 chapters ago as well as this weird conversation by the Gorosei seem very hamfisted compared to Oda's usual style.

I like the toon force style powerup as Gear 5/Awakening, but the same could be achieved by keeping it as the Gum Gum fruit and that's not even touching this whole can of worms it opens up regarding the WG's inactivity regarding the fruit, the entire determination vs determinism angle, the fact that apparently zoans house actual spirits of living beings now and that somehow Luffy is the only awakened Zoan in an arc that should be the primary Zoan showcase.

I am extremely curious how Oda plans on resolving all of this, but this reveal feels very clumsy ... something I get from the entirety of Wano tbh. I hope that once the series is done we get some behind the scenes stuff on the frankly baffling focus shifts, weirdly sidelined subplots and other curiosities surrounding this arc.

This is certainly the biggest chapter since Roger's arrival on Laugh Tale and the Referie ones, though. Maybe even the biggest chapter in the post-ts era.

Nidhoeggr said:


Big chapters tend to lure me out :P

It was always curious how the party scene in Skypeia with the dancing Luffy was chosen as one of Oda's favourite manga panels in interviews, so there obviously was more significance to Skypeia than many fans imagined (I always enjoyed Skypeia as a peak OP arc, feels good to be vindicated in a sense btw). However, this is still not much given the gravitas of completely changing the main character's power - a power which Oda went on record as to have chosen specifically because it isnt special, mind you.

And lets not talk about one of his other favourite scenes during the Sabaody arc where they talk about resin...

Anyway, according to Greg on APF (the guy who does the superfan columns in Japan and whose quite connected to Oda himself) it seems that people close to the creation process of OP expected this reaction and that there may be more to it. If I were to speculate I'd

a) bank on Vegapunk appearing pretty soon at last to finally give us the much needed infodump on DFs, their origin, their properties and what the hell the WG and MADs are trying to do with them.
b) still not rule out theories about resin. Not only because of Oda's mentioning of that scene, but because the "spirits trapped within" idea might fit with resin encasing corpses and thus creating fossils.Just something to keep in mind.

For now let's see how it all plays out.



Determination vs determinism is the big one, indeed. Oda was firmly in camp 1 before, but post-TS the latter camp has been stedily getting more pronounced with the Strawhat reveal in the Referie, Joyboy, prophecies, etc.
I don't see the reason why Luffy needs to be a literal chosen one either when he could just as well take up the mantle figuratively, but I hope Oda adresses this soon.

nanashi796 said:
so the gorosei knew all along or shanks told them? if they knew all along this doesn't make any sense.

Early_Morning said:
Chapter was very divisive in my opinion. While seeing Luffy wreck Kaido was amusing, the Hiyori scene took way too long and was totally unnecessary, especially the inclusion of Kanjuro's flame. Can he please just fucking die already?!

Also seeing Luffy win against Kaido after getting a deus ex machina power-up is gonna feel really weird and off-putting once the arc is finally over, to me at least. I mean, all that time watching him train to use Advanced CoC in that horrible prison arc, and in the end it'll barely have any impact on the result of the battle. But as long as the fight ends in the next chapter or two, I guess it doesn't matter.

Danpmss said:
@FMmatron
No biggies there, I totally get your point that it's definitely not the way Oda usually does his exposition, and was just reinforcing your statements in that listing overall, tbh haha

We are about in the same page here, as per usual really lol

But on the disagreement side, Luffy's paramecia being much closer to the transformative nature of Zoans with his use of creativity for powering it up has always been a contentious point in discussions for a while, and since last year, a part of a discussion regarding what could the fruit really be after all (plenty of theories, one of which hits the nail with it being a Mythical Zoan Hito Hito no Mi that may have rubber properties... though the theory on itself was associating it to Hanuman and not Nika iirc).

When it comes to special paramecias, as far as examples go in canon, they have Logia-like properties normal paramecia do not instead (Katakuri), which Luffy's never had really (I think?), and even those as far as I'm concerned ever were displayed like the Gears are used. As for transformative Zoan properties coming from their own substantial body, it has quite a contrast to how other non-awakened Paramecia users had so far (during the entirety of OP, Luffy never awakened his fruit, so environmental transformative powers with their properties like Doflamingo's, Kidd's, Law's or Katakuri's never took place to firmly establish it as paramecia, it was always more similar to Zoan's progression (Awakened Zoans would also explain his quick recover after the beatdown he just suffered), as to say, Chopper's transformations with the Hito-Hito no Mi, much like Luffy's Gears, which were surprisingly similar to how Gear 4 turned out to be.

Anyway, all just food for thought tbh, Luffy's paramecia being always displayed in quite a differently progressive way than any other non-awakened user is my point haha

Much like Chopper's Hito-Hito transformations and unlike other paramecia's modifications (awakened or not) as far as I'm concerned by power usages so far, it was also the only one that had damaging effects on the user, do refresh my mind if I'm incorrect.

Because of that, I'm inclined to disagree on them being within what one would expect a Paramecia to be like, and it really was a point I never had too many arguments on when confronted with it, personally. I think Gomu Gomu always has been the least paramecia-like paramecia in the series, as far as we seen of other users (Robin for one also gets very creative with her fruit and the way her abilities go are not quite progressively developed the same).

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But disregarding all that, as the real issue would be Luffy's fruit not working as a Zoan instead (which it does, since it basically just changed to him becoming like a rubber man, just not directly rubber itself), even if I were to be very wrong about the aforementioned, I think there would still be no issue.

Like, depending on how this goes, even in terms of early exposition leading to this... THEORY TIME!!:

1- For all we know, MADS was trying to create an artificial Zoan fruit out of Luffy's, which would be why eventually they were called SMILEs because of the side effect that make people laugh uncontrollably like Luffy right now maybe. That would make this reveal have evidentially been foreshadowed and planned for at least 400 chapters (Punk Hazard), even if the namedrop was only 30 chapters ago, which would make for what one would expect of Oda's planning and further proof this reveal definitely didn't come just from Wano, but from the very start of this behemoth of a Saga.

2- Considering for how long this entire plot thread with Vegapunk has been going for, while we don't know why Kaido's cloning was a failure to him that made him leave the team, that would be consistent with WG's obsession with obtaining the fruit even if having to mess with lineage factor artificially, which would explain why we eventually got SAD and the SMILE fruits developed. The fact they are exclusively regarding Zoan types and not any other is more than enough of a hint that if Luffy's fruit was so important to the WG, it was likely to be revealed as a Zoan after 1018.

3- This could be a Zoan that works more like a Paramecia, much like Katakuri's is a Paramecia that works more like a Logia, given the context, if everything still checks out with Paramecia established overall characteristics and I'm wrong.

Overall, all I'm saying is that there are more than enough past plot threads that could easily back this up as not being a sudden development never hinted at before, and I alone can think of a few haha

I'm no one to criticize people's overview in the execution for now (since it's so different from his usual thing to do it all in a same arc), but if that turns out to be the case, I do think people won't have much to complain!

Danpmss said:
@FMmatron
No biggies there, I totally get your point that it's definitely not the way Oda usually does his exposition, and was just reinforcing your statements in that listing overall, tbh haha

We are about in the same page here, as per usual really lol

But on the disagreement side, Luffy's paramecia being much closer to the transformative nature of Zoans with his use of creativity for powering it up has always been a contentious point in discussions for a while, and since last year, a part of a discussion regarding what could the fruit really be after all (plenty of theories, one of which hits the nail with it being a Mythical Zoan Hito Hito no Mi that may have rubber properties... though the theory on itself was associating it to Hanuman and not Nika iirc).

When it comes to special paramecias, as far as examples go in canon, they have Logia-like properties normal paramecia do not instead (Katakuri), which Luffy's never had really (I think?), and even those as far as I'm concerned ever were displayed like the Gears are used. As for transformative Zoan properties coming from their own substantial body, it has quite a contrast to how other non-awakened Paramecia users had so far (during the entirety of OP, Luffy never awakened his fruit, so environmental transformative powers with their properties like Doflamingo's, Kidd's, Law's or Katakuri's never took place to firmly establish it as paramecia, it was always more similar to Zoan's progression (Awakened Zoans would also explain his quick recover after the beatdown he just suffered), as to say, Chopper's transformations with the Hito-Hito no Mi, much like Luffy's Gears, which were surprisingly similar to how Gear 4 turned out to be.

Anyway, all just food for thought tbh, Luffy's paramecia being always displayed in quite a differently progressive way than any other non-awakened user is my point haha

Much like Chopper's Hito-Hito transformations and unlike other paramecia's modifications (awakened or not) as far as I'm concerned by power usages so far, it was also the only one that had damaging effects on the user, do refresh my mind if I'm incorrect.

Because of that, I'm inclined to disagree on them being within what one would expect a Paramecia to be like, and it really was a point I never had too many arguments on when confronted with it, personally. I think Gomu Gomu always has been the least paramecia-like paramecia in the series, as far as we seen of other users (Robin for one also gets very creative with her fruit and the way her abilities go are not quite progressively developed the same).

--------------------------------------------------------

But disregarding all that, as the real issue would be Luffy's fruit not working as a Zoan instead (which it does, since it basically just changed to him becoming like a rubber man, just not directly rubber itself), even if I were to be very wrong about the aforementioned, I think there would still be no issue.

Like, depending on how this goes, even in terms of early exposition leading to this... THEORY TIME!!:

1- For all we know, MADS was trying to create an artificial Zoan fruit out of Luffy's, which would be why eventually they were called SMILEs because of the side effect that make people laugh uncontrollably like Luffy right now maybe. That would make this reveal have evidentially been foreshadowed and planned for at least 400 chapters (Punk Hazard), even if the namedrop was only 30 chapters ago, which would make for what one would expect of Oda's planning and further proof this reveal definitely didn't come just from Wano, but from the very start of this behemoth of a Saga.

2- Considering for how long this entire plot thread with Vegapunk has been going for, while we don't know why Kaido's cloning was a failure to him that made him leave the team, that would be consistent with WG's obsession with obtaining the fruit even if having to mess with lineage factor artificially, which would explain why we eventually got SAD and the SMILE fruits developed. The fact they are exclusively regarding Zoan types and not any other is more than enough of a hint that if Luffy's fruit was so important to the WG, it was likely to be revealed as a Zoan after 1018.

3- This could be a Zoan that works more like a Paramecia, much like Katakuri's is a Paramecia that works more like a Logia, given the context, if everything still checks out with Paramecia established overall characteristics and I'm wrong.

Overall, all I'm saying is that there are more than enough past plot threads that could easily back this up as not being a sudden development never hinted at before, and I alone can think of a few haha

I'm no one to criticize people's overview in the execution for now (since it's so different from his usual thing to do it all in a same arc), but if that turns out to be the case, I do think people won't have much to complain!

FMmatron said:

Paramecia fruits grant the user supernatural powers or the user becomes a superhuman. From Bara Bara no Mi to Opera Opera no Mi, everything seemed possible and there are basically no limits. A rubber body certainly didn't seem all that different and even the Gears that utilized the uniqueness of said rubber body came with a plausible explanation. Speeding up the blood flow which no human would survive, inflating the bones and muscles, all very sound and creative. I'd say that we explored the versatility of the Gomu Gomu no Mi in depth simply due to the fact that Luffy is the MC. He was in countless fights and therefore had more than enough opportunities to give him many power ups/transformations with a risk/handicap. Endless Gear 2nd, 3rd and 4th would've been overkill. Even if the storytelling is top tier, we shouldn't forget that this is a battle shounen at the end of the day. There's the Gear 4th design that could speak for a Zoan. At first I thought it's just another Dragon Ball hommage, but it's a bit sussy.

Zoan shapeshifting is usually harmless. The damage in Chopper's case was a sideeffect of Rumble Ball (drug) overdose, no other regular Zoan user except for Marco had to deal with depleted stamina or other issues and that's because Marco used a supernatural ability that requires energy.

It's only logical that Luffy would suffer from sideeffecrs as well when he's recklessly fighting with his altered body. Plus, the Paramecia modification we've seen always came with a drawback. Moria's shadow insertion puts a strain on bodies and wears the person out and that's surely not without risks in the long run and Big Mom has to sacrifice years of her own life to power up. So ultimately it's safe to say that all powers decrease your life if you use them to the limit. The greater the risk the greater the payoff. The Ope Ope no Mi is a paradigm with it's perpetual youth surgery, but to provide a less extreme example for the same fruit, Law himself stated that he cut down his life a bit in exchange for the huge Room that allowed him the Gamma Knife surprise attack on Doffy.  The Awakening for Paramecia's was showcased rather later, whereas they've been established as supernatural powers since Skypiea.

Also, Luffy used semi Paramecia Awakening in this chapter...as a confirmed Zoan. You see how many holes onr can poke, not to mention that there are always outlier abilities such as the Yami Yami no Mi, which is the least Logia like Logia. Even the Jake Jake no Mi is built different 🗿 I'm sure it has it's own sub-category, lmao.

Bottom line, the depiction of Luffy's rubber body has always been unmistakably closer to a Paramecia than a Zoan which is generally characterized by 3 forms, human, animal and hybrid, at least in accordance with what has been established.

You brought up some valid points as to how to tie in this reveal further, even tho 1 a bit too vague and it only works in retrospect. SAD, SMILES and Lineage Factor don't tell me that Luffy is a Zoan. For other reveals the foreshadowing has been better defined. To make it worse, we only learned that Shanks got the fruit from the Goverment in chapter 1017. If this was indeed planned, then I would've preferred to get this info earlier.

As for point number 2. Well, they used Lineage Factor from various animals for SAD and just from what Drake said, it's implied that Vegapunk successfully recreated Kizaru's laser.

Point 3 is fine.
However, the problem is not how back it up after the reveal. The problem is or was to back up the build up to the reveal. This is the crux.

Despite all my nitpicks, I'm fine with it, it works after all and is still exciting storytelling. I even love how the Nika fruit gives Luffy's creativity a whole new meaning, but the timing of how crucial info was placed in the grand scheme of things was by no means up to par and it's something I don't want to sugarcoat.

Zero0_01 said:
So oda tricked fandom for 23 years...

CG-Silver said:
So, Luffy's fruit being special isn't even the most surprising thing or the biggest deal. BUT what I'm surprised about is why no one is mentioning the elephant in the room. The Gorosei mentions that Luffy's fruit is "The most ridiculous power in the world". I don't believe they mean it in the sense that the fruit is especially too powerful or anything. I believe they used this phrase to signify that it has a ridiculous ability to inspire others. So, the questions really begs: Throughout the series, Luffy was shown to be a magnetic and inspiring personality, the freest man alive. Was it all just Luffy or was it the devil fruit?

willhdean263 said:
That shit is lame af I waited twenty yrs to see this man to go full Rodger rabbit it's a little too goofy even for Luffy...I mean c'mon now we all thought gear 5 was gonna be a lil less childish

Morayne said:




He stayed true to himself (from SBS 65)

Nidhoeggr said:
However, this is still not much given the gravitas of completely changing the main character's power - a power which Oda went on record as to have chosen specifically because it isnt special, mind you.

Maybe it's worthwhile to read his SBS comments about the Hito Hito no Mi back when Chopper joined and other small tidbits for now... I am pretty sure this decision was a rather recent one on his part.

Fair point, as mine is basically just that Luffy's the only paramecia to have displayed some specific characteristics and uses for his body, at the end of the day. Devil's Proof perhaps, for lack of any other similar examples at least from what I could remember.

Yeah, I think I will give this point to you, you gave me enough evidence I actually forgot about. As for Chopper, the comparison was more regarding the way he forces the limits of his Zoan, and we clearly lack evidence in examples other than Marco, indeed. But the comparisons you just made are totally fair game, so I'll accept defeat in pointing out that evidence as a valid example.

As for this, I guess that's where my point 3 enters, in case I was wrong. Fits well enough.

Absolutely right, one thing that makes it a Paramecia more than the odd characteristics is the fact that Zoan's have a mind of their own, for literally being based upon a living form of some sort.

My point however was the evidence that show us that it wasn't quite as similar to a Paramecia in terms of development of characteristics and transformations. Which is why I was stating it didn't act like your usual paramecia, not straight denying it as one.

Just to correct all of my other posts mentioning it, I missed the right chapter by 1 unit, the Who's Who exposition actually is in 1018 instead.

What would tell that Luffy's fruit is a Zoan is the fact the entire plot point with the artificial fruits only applies to Zoan. if that has anything to do with Luffy's fruit being Nika and that's where the whole research team was going for (likely using Nika's DNA from the big hat, body or something) with their recreation experiments, that would mean this reveal was likely planned from as long as the SMILEs have first been mentioned and foreshadowed since as far as Sabaody, if @Hell_gatel is correct with his statement just now.

Not only implied but confirmed, but he synthesized it only, to use in the Pacifistas, he wouldn't be able to create a devil fruit out of it nor it was implied, as it was stated post-timeskip that only Zoans could be artificially replicated, likely for their lineage factor of living beings.

That remains to be seen, if the things are anywhere as closely interconnected with these previous plot threads regarding the entire Vegapunk plot, then the whole thing had been in the works since before the timeskip, and it's nowhere near as recent as just Wano.

I do agree that this was the least spaced out big exposition regarding a specific extremely important plot Oda has done in a while though (not the first one however, and Ace being the son of Gol D. Roger takes the cake with only 24 chapters or so even hinting on his bloodline in any way during his conversation with Garp, in prison).

Danpmss said:
[



Regarding this btw, could you please tell me the one you are referring to? I honestly forgot most of the Q&A that went down over the years except the most iconic ones.

FMmatron said:


Here it is.




Volume 20, page 164

D: WHAT HAPPENS IF A PERSON EATS A HITO HITO NO MI?

O: I suppose I should say they "BECOME HUMAN". Uh, I guess you could say that means like becoming an adult, or finding your true spirit or something. So basically, people will live more human-like. Well. I guess you could say that. Or not. Basically, not. Goodbye. (runs away).

I dunno about that one. Oda's answers can at times be vague and trollish and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Danpmss said:


He totally fled from that question without confirming a thing, damn lol

whybeme said:
Nika was somewhat foreshadowed in Binks' sake

波がおどるよ　ドラムならせ♪ Now the waves are dancing, Beat upon the drums
おくびょう風に　吹かれりゃ最後♪ If you lose your nerve this breath could be your last
明日の朝日が　ないじゃなし♪ But if you just hold on, The morning sun will rise

Obviously it foreshadows Joy Boys return and also somewhat Nika, with the ''morning sun will rise''
But Oda making that decision is still a bit risky, but we believ :D

VolKur said:
@FMmatron there are a lot of things that I was thinking whole day and now I have some answers.
First of all, we don't know yet that Luffy has the power of imagination (this is just speculation from my side). And if he has the power then oda has taken the riskiest move in one piece yet, but I believe in Oda's supremacy and I know he will deliver it perfectly.

Second thing is that I think, I know why gorosei don't know about gomu gomu no mi.
My theory is that when Toki travel 800 years in future, she brought Nika fruit with her to wano and somehow she lost that fruit in the process. And 800 years ago when ancient kingdom/Wano decided to close their border (the Ancient Kingdom being vanished completely), they changed the fruit name from Human Human fruit; Model: Nika to Gum-Gum fruit. And this whole theory also says that even Imu-sama will be not aware of the existence of fruit for 800 years because the fruit was not even there, it travelled the 800 years in future and when Roger landed on the final island aka laugh tale, he learned about the Nika fruit (or the alternative, he learned about the devil fruit from Oden, who learned about the Nika fruit from Toki).

And I know the reason why Shanks was crying because he thought that when Roger will travel the last island he may learn about his disease and there will be a cure for him but Roger had some fu*ked up incurable disease.
Shanks also learned about the Void Century from Rayleigh and then he learned about the Nika's fruit. And 12 years ago when he gets the info about a gomu gomu devil fruit being transported to a Celestial Dragon, he attacks the WG ship and steals the fruit to hide it in the most peaceful sea, east blue sea. But unfortunately, Luffy eats the fruit and Then Shanks have only one choice that is to believe in Luffy!
Then in Reverie arc, Shanks tells Gorosei about the real name of Luffy's devil fruit and tell them to eliminate Straw Hat Luffy, but in truth, Shanks knew how to awaken the true power of Luffy and he also speculated that Luffy cannot defeat Kaido without Devil Fruit awakening. So, he decides to play a risky move by telling Gorosei the truth about the fruit.

I know there are many problems in my theory but it makes sense if you look at what happened in Reverie and why Gorosei doesn't know about the gomu gomu fruit.

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Now, about my second theory. What if Luffy truly have the power of imagination?
I think puffy will still fail to use his Imagination power to its full potential because to imagine you have to think and we have never seen Luffy imagining or thinking. For him, his devil fruit is nothing more than gomu gomu no mi. And I think there is a limit to how much time he can maintain his 5th Gear.
I believe in Oda and I think he will do something great & goofy with this new power.

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@FMmatron @Ayu_01
Now about the chapter itself, I will say the truth it's my 2nd Favourite Chapter from the series & I loved it from start to finish.
Hiyori's speech to Orochi was great, his face when she was crying, was perfectly drawn. I think Kazenbo was the will of Kanjiro and if you remember correctly, he said in chapter 1030 that his final act of revenge starts with Kazenbo. In truth, he was taking revenge on Orochi for taking his freedom away from him. Kazenbo was meant to blast the bombs in the basement with Orochi.
And I love that Orochi is being burned down in pain just like Oden. Now I just want him to stay alive until Hiyoru takes him in front of Wano's people and they all kill him in the most brutal way possible.
As for awakening, I'm just enjoying it!!!

@Danpmss I really liked your theory on that smile fruit and luffy keep laughing. And I think luffy will cure the curse of Ebisu town and he will also heal the killers laughing problem!!

VolKur said:
@FMmatron even though I believe that citizen of Ebisu town will be healed but I want them to stay like that forever.
Yeah, We have to wait for 1 week to see Luffy Gear 5th properly. I also prefer Gear 4th snake man design as of now but I could change it after seeing Gear 5th abilities.
And what do you think of Zoro's situation?

R.I.P. Gum Gum Fruit(1997-2022)!!

Ayu_01 said:
@Volkur damn bro thats the best theory I have read in a while and it is totally plausible but dang that would really suit the tone lets wait.
It will be interesting to see how Luffy uses Gear 5 in next chapter