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Mar 6, 2022 9:48 AM
#1
Neet Specter

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What are your thoughts on Chinese anime?

Do you think they're worth watching? Which ones would be a good starter?

How is Chinese voice acting ?

Is it different from japanese anime?


(Don't go into politics and let political bias influence your views.... just keep it anime)
 

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Mar 6, 2022 9:55 AM
#2

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it's a nice change of pace to understand anime without subtitles


names in chinese anime are impossible to remember though

A good starter would be link click or mo dao zu shi

Mar 6, 2022 10:00 AM
#3

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How can it be anime if it is not made in japan?!
๐Ÿ‡ฎโ€‹ ๐Ÿ‡ผโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ฆโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ณโ€‹๐Ÿ‡นโ€‹ ๐Ÿ‡นโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ดโ€‹ ๐Ÿ‡ญโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ฆโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ปโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ชโ€‹ 100000 ๐Ÿ‡ซโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ทโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ฎโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ชโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ณโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ฉโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ธโ€‹ - ๐Ÿ‡ธโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ชโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ณโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ฉโ€‹ ๐Ÿ‡ฒโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ชโ€‹ ๐Ÿ‡พโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ดโ€‹๐Ÿ‡บโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ทโ€‹ ๐Ÿ‡ทโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ชโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ถโ€‹๐Ÿ‡บโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ชโ€‹๐Ÿ‡ธโ€‹๐Ÿ‡นโ€‹!
Mar 6, 2022 10:03 AM
#4

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I haven't really been paying attention to any, but I love Big Fish & Begonia. It's a Ghibli movie better than the ones Ghibli makes.
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Mar 6, 2022 10:06 AM
#5
busy week =_+

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Mo Dao Zu Shi
Scissor Seven
Link Click
Legend of Hei (movie)

Are good starters


Quality wise they're not that different from japanese anime, but I'm kinda avoiding their 3D stuff.


.
CURRENT: semi-hiatus (busy)

Mar 6, 2022 10:07 AM
#6

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Most of them are kinda bad
Some are good
Mainly the slice of lifes
For some reason china is amazing at making slice of lifes but most of the time it goes unnoticed
Inhales oxygen
Mar 6, 2022 10:11 AM
#7
Neet Specter

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I watched two Chinese animes..
One was about two brothers, one dead, one alive and the dead brother's wife was police detective. They work together to solve supernatural cases involving ghost.
I kinda like the story but not the animation and didn't know what to think about voice acting.. it was the only one i saw at that time.


Second was a short one, about food and cute baka girls..
Loved the ending song - summer beach barbeques
 

Mar 6, 2022 10:13 AM
#8
Neet Specter

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qx26 said:
it's a nice change of pace to understand anime without subtitles


names in chinese anime are impossible to remember though

A good starter would be link click or mo dao zu shi



Like you said, i can't remember the names.. and i can't differentiate between names and get confused..
 

Mar 6, 2022 10:15 AM
#9

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I only watched two. the animation and art are perfect, really beautiful. but I found it a bit complicated to understand the story, it seems a bit confusing. and since Chinese and japanese are two very different languages (and I'm used to japanese), it's hard to understand what's going on.

the ones I watched were Mo Dao Zu Shi and Tian Guan Ci Fu

fandom people always say that when you start consuming the work through donghua (chinese anime) it's more difficult to understand the story. they recommend that you should read the books first

but that's just in the case of these two I mentioned, I don't know about other donghuas or if they have books

fanart credits: @yeetoldy
Mar 6, 2022 10:19 AM

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Well, I have only watched Nu Wushen de Canzhuo. It was a pretty fun show.
Mar 6, 2022 10:19 AM

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I watched two so far, one of them was good (Shiguang Dailiren), the other one wasn't (Da Yu Hai Tang). Most of them look pretty cheap, so I'm not feeling very motivated to try them. The language definitely needs getting used to as I haven't listened to it as much as Japanese.
Mar 6, 2022 10:23 AM
Neet Specter

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kwknives said:
I only watched two. the animation and art are perfect, really beautiful. but I found it a bit complicated to understand the story, it seems a bit confusing. and since Chinese and japanese are two very different languages (and I'm used to japanese), it's hard to understand what's going on.

the ones I watched were Mo Dao Zu Shi and Tian Guan Ci Fu

fandom people always say that when you start consuming the work through donghua (chinese anime) it's more difficult to understand the story. they recommend that you should read the books first

but that's just in the case of these two I mentioned, I don't know about other donghuas or if they have books


I can understand only two Chinese words, nihao and wo ai ni. Thanks to shampoo from ranma..

I can speak Japanese and understand (not kansai accent and aomori accent is difficult to understand even for the japanese outside aomori) but not too good at reading and writing.
 

Mar 6, 2022 10:43 AM

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They do a TON of 3D only stuff and I really don't like how that looks. Also not a fan of the really intrusive ads that are often literally a PART of the show and therefore not exactly skippable ๐Ÿ˜‘

That said, there are ofc stellar standout titles that are absolutely worth watching (Link Click made it into my top 10 without trouble, for example), but the ratio of good to lazily produced quick cashgrab feels overall higher than for Japanese anime.

Also, there's an inflation of overpowered MCs even far beyond what Japanese isekai is plagued with, and almost regardless of genre...

Names and expressions are something you get used to just fine if you consume enough Chinese media, but it's helpful to keep a notepad ready when you are just starting out.
For me personally, I still prefer Japanese because it just comes more naturally to me since the pronunciation is very similar to my native language, but it's not like Chinese doesn't work too. There are subs either way, so...๐Ÿคท‍โ™€๏ธ
Mar 6, 2022 10:47 AM

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If you're into Shounen I'd definitely recommend Douluo Dalu.

The biggest issue I faced when I started with chinese stuff was how much did I hate the language. Leap forwards in time to the present and now I think mandarin sounds cool af even better than japanese I absolutely love it.

Another issue I had - and I still haven't fully resolved - is how alien the way of thinking in chinese media is. This is not something I would talk about publicly because when it comes to china one treads a step from of being called a racist, nevertheless part of what makes chinese media so interesting is precisely how curious their line of reasoning is.
Mar 6, 2022 10:48 AM

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ryo-san said:
What are your thoughts on Chinese anime?


1st of all Animation from China is called "Donghua" not "Anime".

I have tried to watch around 30 different Chinese titles over the past few years. While the Animation is becoming more impressive, there is a lackluster to the voice acting that is hard to ignore. Voice actors in Chinese Mandarin is extremely low compared to Japanese voice acting. Quite Frankly listening to "Donghua" in Mandarin can give me a headache if I try to watch more then 3 episodes at a time.

There is an incredible lack of emotion with Chinese Mandarin voice acting in their animations and this is true to date. This might actually just be due to the fact that there is over 100's of different dialects in china and any film or TV is generally always produced in Mandarin unless it's from Hong kong. Which in some cases they will use Cantonese.

Pretty much most Chinese "Donghua" is historical related and pretty much all "Donghua" is state funded media which is basically government controlled. So there is an extremely limited amount of freedom of creative expression even when almost all "Donghua" are original net animations. Since most western nations don't even trade with China anymore, it's incredibly difficult to get your hands on merch or any DVD/Bluray of any "Donghua" outside of Asia.

Subtitles for Chinese "Donghua" are even more loosely put together than subtitles made for Japanese Anime. So it's likely what ever is being spoken in Mandarin will be miles off in translation when watching with subtitles.

I personally don't enjoy "Donghua" at all and have seriously have given it a try before. I simply just view it as a cheap knock off of Japanese Anime since any of the series that do manage to barely break the stale mold are "Donghua" that are purposely created in the shadow of the culture that surrounds Japan's Anime. Which makes it slightly more palatable to watch creating the illusion that "Donghua" is some how becoming on par with Japan's industry. When in fact they are still light years behind existing without it's own identity to be celebrated.

It's likely going to take China decades before their "Donghua" has it's own cultural identity like Japan has with Anime. This can't be rushed or forced even with impressive animated sequences when most western nations today won't even carry "Donghua" merch in their stores.
Mar 6, 2022 10:50 AM
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Mo Dao Zu Shi
Link Click
Quanzhi Gaoshou
Tian Guan Ci Fu


Very interesting gateways to chinese anime
Mar 6, 2022 11:00 AM

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I have watched Scissor Seven only. The characters are all unique and entertaining on its own way, art style reminds me of mob psycho.

I thought the plot was a little to nonexistence but there actually a plot but very slow. Tho I watched in English & Japanese dub(2 times each episodes), I rewatched some episodes in Chinese

Mar 6, 2022 11:17 AM

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"What are your thoughts on Chinese anime?"

If OP means donghua, I liked several of those:

Mo Dao Zu Shi aka Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation
Cike Wu Liuqi aka Scissors Seven (third season was a bit meh)
Ling Long: Incarnation aka Spirit Cage: Incarnation
Doupo Cangqiong aka Battle Through the Heavens (first season is really cheap but it's last season has the best 3D CGI battles ever made)
Xing Hai Qi Shi aka Knights on Debris
Xian Wang de Richang Shenghuo aka The Daily Life of the Immortal King (now this is an interesting take on cultivation)
Da Wang Rao Ming aka Spare Me, Great Lord
Lie Huo Jiao Chou aka Drowning Sorrows in Raging Fire
The Kuiba franchise (3 movies and a prequel series?)
Jian Wang 3: Xia Gan Yi Dan Shen Jianxin aka JX3: Chivalrous Hero Shen Jianxin
You Yao aka Are You Ok
Shi Zhi Ge - Hua Yu Yan De Kuang aka Song of Time
Qian Qiu, Shan He Jian Xin aka Thousands of Years
Moshi Juexing Zhi Ruqin aka The Invasion of Awakening (alas went to trash in its final season)
Mindiao Ju Yiwen Lu aka Bureau of Paranormal Investigation
Daomu Biji Zhi Qinling Shen Shu aka Tomb Robber Notes Qinling God Tree
Hong Huang aka Rescue Eternal Desert
Yuan Long aka Carp Reborn (trashy fun)
Ming Zhi Zhou aka The Totem Warrior


"How is Chinese voice acting ?"

I like it pretty much but I guess it needs some using to. Anyway I always try to go with the original dub of any title.


"Is it different from japanese anime?"

Donghua feels very different to me...this is why I go for shows from it, quite exotic experience.
alshuMar 6, 2022 11:27 AM
Mar 6, 2022 11:24 AM

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ColourWheel said:
It's likely going to take China decades before their "Donghua" has it's own cultural identity like Japan has with Anime. This can't be rushed or forced even with impressive animated sequences when most western nations today won't even carry "Donghua" merch in their stores.

This is an important consideration. Link Click may be critically acclaimed, but it's obvious most people outside China will never watch it. And so many English translations of Chinese pop-culture seem to cater to anime fans, as if China and Japan are interchangeable.
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Mar 6, 2022 11:31 AM

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I liked Mo Dao Zu Shi, but sometimes I had a hard time telling which character is which because their designs and faces were all similar and even their voices kinda blended together.
Who are you and why do you show your hostility towards a complete stranger whom you've not once spoken with before. Are you seriously asking to get blocked? Well, if that's what your intent is; to tempt me into throwing hands with someone as lowly and insignificant as you, then i may grant your wish provided you articulate yourself a bit better when trying to spite a person of my wavelength.
Mar 6, 2022 11:35 AM

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@-Ryu
Thank you for bringing that to my attention. If I ever dive into that series, I will not be choosing the animated version.
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Mar 6, 2022 11:42 AM

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Chinese 'anime' have a name. They're called donghua.
Mar 6, 2022 11:42 AM

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The only chinese anime I've seen is Link Click and I enjoyed what it had to offer. I'm down to give more chinese anime a chance. It feels like the people who give them shit don't do much research or even watch it at all
Mar 6, 2022 11:57 AM
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Getting better than a few years ago, a few popular C-animes I've seen so far are good but they have emphasized a lot on the fighting scene and made flashy but other than that are kind of generic, not that I hate it. Now Chinese based anime studios are hiring Japanese animators with better pay and working conditions so I think its a matter of time
Mar 6, 2022 12:00 PM

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The only chinese animation I've watched is "Mo Dao Zu Shi". The art was really pleasing and I enjoyed the story, too.
Mar 6, 2022 1:29 PM

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Good content is good content, country of origin shouldn't really be a barrier. However, I will definitely not watch a Chinese show if it is blatant CCP propaganda as I do not want to really be subject to the ideals of a genocidal and totalitarian government
This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place.
Mar 6, 2022 1:37 PM

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Lucifrost said:
ColourWheel said:
It's likely going to take China decades before their "Donghua" has it's own cultural identity like Japan has with Anime. This can't be rushed or forced even with impressive animated sequences when most western nations today won't even carry "Donghua" merch in their stores.

This is an important consideration. Link Click may be critically acclaimed, but it's obvious most people outside China will never watch it. And so many English translations of Chinese pop-culture seem to cater to anime fans, as if China and Japan are interchangeable.


Too many users on MAL are too young to understand how long it took Anime to actually make a foothold in the western world and beyond as for being viewed as anything more than just cartoons.

Even during the 80s countless lines of merch being freely traded all across the world coming out of Japan and still Anime was still commonly just thought of as cartoons in America. I remember back in the early 90s I subscribed to AnimeUK while living in America and kept at it until they stopped publishing. Manga was simply just viewed commonly as comic books and large scale Anime conventions were non-existent as anything that was large enough to fill an actual convention center was simply fused as a niche side show at comic book conventions until close to the turn of the century.

Chinese "Donghua" has actually been around since the late 50s and it still doesn't have any sort of celebrated identity beyond being just being viewed as a cheap knock off of Japanese Anime. It's never had any appeal for anyone one beyond China's children until far after the turn of the century.

Since almost all Western Nations around the world have basically stopped trading with China, It's not likely for China's "Donghua" will be heading anywhere than where it stands now. "Donghua" been widely accessible in Japan for decades before the west ever even knew it even existed and even the Japanese people from Osaka to Hokkaido don't even have interest in "Donghua". I should know I have been to both places before and in between. The Japanese people really don't have a very fond view of it.

Until I personally start seeing western websites popup strictly catering to "Donghua" fandom, be able to go to a "Hot Topic" to find the latest "Xia Gan Yi Dan Shen Jianxin" merch, or even read some random debate on a western forum over who has a better "Donghua" waifu, Chinese "Donghua" will be nothing but a small shadow in the world of animation.

I can't stress it enough that Chinese "Donghua" is light years behind Japanese Anime and I will probably be long dead before "Donghua" creates it's own cultural identity like Japan has with Anime. Simply having impressive animation coming out of China is not enough and it never will be.
ColourWheelMar 6, 2022 1:41 PM
Mar 6, 2022 1:52 PM

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This is a metaphysical conundrum. To what extent is it possible to think about something which in itself is a contradiction in terms?

Mar 6, 2022 3:03 PM
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if they really want to live up to their true potential, they have to break out of the limitations of censorship

Mar 6, 2022 3:10 PM

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@ColourWheel
Thank you for your insight. I love learning about international pop-culture trends.
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Mar 6, 2022 3:12 PM

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My basic thoughts are that it is not anime, and should be allowed to find it's separate identity from Japanese anime.
Mar 6, 2022 3:52 PM

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Tbh I haven't seen one I really liked yet, but that's probably because I haven't seen a whole lot of them.
Mar 6, 2022 3:58 PM

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From little that I've watched, they're fine at best.




Mar 6, 2022 4:11 PM
Neet Specter

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Thanks everyone for the info..

So okay, Mo Dao Zu Shi as it was what most suggested and incarnation spirit cage sounds my kind of supernatural mystery from the title...

I had no idea they were called donghuas...
 

Mar 6, 2022 5:34 PM

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I'm going to skip regurgitating the vapid discussion on anime vs "donghua" (hint: it's practically a white-people thing). I've been watching a ton of Chinese anime lately. In general, I'd say that Chinese anime characters are more mature and older. The typical Chinese character is between 16-25, as opposed to 12-16 in Japanese anime. That means even the shounen-esque Chinese anime are closer to seinen in tone. Although there are still some fanservice tropes, like characters having sex after inadvertently being "poisoned" by an aphrodesiac (lame), they occur much less often than the comparable Japanese anime. I have to say this makes Chinese anime a lot more tolerable -- even on average.

The second thing Chinese anime has going for it is that it's mostly based on web novels, which are more textual than they are graphic, a format that allows for more depth. Also, some of them are BL (yaoi), which is somehow a big thing in China, but thanks to government censorship, all the more explicit stuff is in between the lines. So the animators have to show the relationships through subtext, which ironically make it more meaningful.

If you're completely new to Chinese anime, I'd suggest the following:
2D: (in no particular order)
  • Mo Dao Zu Shi (Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation) -- This is a BL, but the explicit scenes are left to your imagination. You can imagine them as really good friends if you want, for the most part. It's about a duo finding out who framed one of them, which led to his suicide in his previous life.
  • Quanzhi Gaoshou (King's Avatar) -- A story about a competitive gamer being forced to quit, and coming back onto the scene (a bit like SAO without the weird shit).
  • Yi Nian Yong Heng (A Will Eternal) -- About a kid's journey to become immortal. He's highly book smart and has talent, but is an absolute coward, so pacing suffers. But humor, action are not bad.
  • Da Wang Rao Ming (Spare Me, Great Lord) -- The world starts developing magic, and some people start gaining powers (not unlike MHA). The main character develops the ability where he gains levels by pissing people off. Pretty funny and story isn't bad.
  • Xian Wang de Ri Chang Sheng Huo (Daily Life of the Immortal King) -- A slice of life/comedy that's something like a cross of Saiki Kusuo, Mob Psycho 100, and Misfit of Demon King Academy. Often breaks 4th wall to joke on typical tropes. Main story is the typical, weak rom-com.
  • Link Click (Shiguang Dailiren) -- A pair have the ability to go back in time through photos to gain insight of the situation. They take requests from people as a side job.
  • Fairies Album/Hundred Demon's Manual (Bai Yao Pu) -- Sort of like a Mushishi/Natsume's Book of Friends, but more touching in my opinion. In this world, all the demons are intricately tied to human experience instead of being a completely separate mysterious world.


3D: (yeah, I know it's hard to get used to it at first, but these should not be discounted)
  • Record of A Mortal's Journey to Immortality (Fan Ren Xiu Xian Zhuan) -- This is slowly becoming my favorite one due to its lack of reliance on tropes and originality. In a world where most cultivators, or martial artists who use magic, are born into it, the main character is sold to a clan because his family couldn't afford to keep him. Then, through good fortune and being very, very careful, he sets on a path to getting stronger and surviving.
  • Soul Land (Douluo Dalu) -- Based on a video game, I think, this is the Chinese response to a long running shounen. It's a world where people with talent practice cultivation, where every 10 levels, they have the opportunity to tame a beast to add to their powers. The best part of this show has to be the team battles that are completely reliant on teamwork. This diverges from the shounen formula where every protagonist splits off into their own fights.
  • Snow Eagle Lord (Xue Ying Ling Zhu) -- After his parents are imprisoned by a powerful clan, the child leader of the snow eagle estate has to get stronger to get his parents back. This is a typical shounen cultivation type of thing, but well executed.
  • Battle Through the Heavens (Doupo Cangqiong) -- Another typical cultivation, a genius loses his ability and gets humiliated, with his fiance canceling marriage and his clan falling into ruin. Then he discovers why he lost his abilities and must strive to retake his place in the world. It has great budget and the action scenes get better every season.
  • Immortality (Yong Sheng) -- Main character is a slave that likes to peek at martial artists training in his spare time. Then one day he accidentally saves a bandit that instills power into him. This is a new one, very high budget, great humble protagonist and has a lot of potential so far.
  • Tunshi Xingkong (Swallowed Star) -- A post-apocalyptic play on the cultivator genre, the world is overrun by mutated beasts due to a virus, and some of the human survivors got mutated also and developed psychic powers. The main character comes from a poor family, and after getting threatened by a local nobleman for talking to his girl, he decides to enroll in military school to protect his family. Story is typical, but action scenes are very well developed.


Obviously, there are more, but this should be more than enough to get anyone started.
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Mar 6, 2022 7:43 PM

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@katsucats

For the record, I am not trying to have a go at you here.

It's a bit unfair to throw in race into this discussion since it really hasn't been brought up until your post. I always hate it when I see race being brought up in any discussion. More so when it's as petty as being about the Anime.

I am personally Korean which is far from being "white-people". So I think you need to view an opposition to "Donghua" from perspective that isn't about race.

Although both "Anime" and "Donghua" are both animated mediums, mixing them all together as if they belong together is actually an insult to the culture that Japan has built around Anime for decades.

It's as if you have some classic rock radio DJ starting off their set playing "Eminem's - Rap god" introducing it as one of the new classic followed by "AC/DC's - Back in Black", "Aerosmith's - Sweet emotion", then suddenly busting out "Logic's - Homicide ft. Eminem" then going back to spinning another "AC/DC" song.

Unless China doesn't want "Donghua" to eventually have it's own cultural identity it's only going to keep living in the shadow of Japan's Anime.

Now I could go into an outrageous conspiracy theory that I have heard before...

--- Suspecting the Chinese government really wants is to eventually take over the culture of Anime by infiltrating Western Anime fandom. Slipping in enough palatable "Donghua" titles in Databases like MAL to the likeness of Japanese Anime to the point that new and future western fan won't be able to tell the difference between the two. Just to culturally appropriate Anime using cold war tactics till more Chinese "Donghua" exist than actual Japanese "Anime". ---

I swear to to you this is not something I made up but have actually heard from someone tell me who is even more against "Donghua" than I am (probably one of those "white-people things" you were talking about in your previous post since the person I heard this from is actually white).*sarcasm*

Since it doesn't seem like "Donghua" is ever going to suddenly disappear from MAL (which honestly I wouldn't mind if it did). I think MAL and MAL users have a responsibility to help educate new and future Anime fans, so user like the OP of this thread don't go on thinking that "Chinese Anime" is an actual thing (not having a go at the OP either).

I apologize right now if I happen to offend anyone.
ColourWheelMar 6, 2022 8:04 PM
Mar 6, 2022 8:41 PM

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Let me respond to two things in particular here.

ColourWheel said:
I am personally Korean which is far from being "white-people". So I think you need to view an opposition to "Donghua" from perspective that isn't about race.
It doesn't really matter what race you are. You're still being led on by white-empowered Euro-centrism. Let me explain. Anime, from a Japanese perspective, is just a contraction of animation. Disney is anime. It doesn't specifically refer to any cultural medium. It's not some exotic thing. Manga literally means comics and nothing further. Since you're Korean, you should know that the Japanese kanji for manga is exactly the same as the words they imported, namely the Chinese manhua and the Korean manhwa. They mean exactly the same thing, down to the way they're written.

So what does donghua mean? In Japanese, it would be douga. Its kanji literally means "moving picture". Nothing else. In fact, Japanese used this world before the Americanized contraption was popularized. Nobody in any Asian culture thinks donghua means Chinese animation in particular. Nobody in any Asian culture thinks anime means Japanese animation in particular. Period. These are ideas sold to you by the marketing and fetishization by white people, period.

Now, you can use the words donghua to refer to "Chinese animation" and anime to refer to "Japanese animation" if it pleases you, due to Western convention if anything, but please spare us the lecture. It is not written anywhere that these are the words that mean these things. It is not fact. In fact, "anime" in Western usage was invented in the 80s to make Japanese animation easier to sell because the term before that, Japanimation, was too long. Then fans started adopting this marketing logic to manhwa and donghua, etc. But nobody uses "peliculas" to refer to Spanish movies, or "animer" to refer to French animation. Do you know why? Because these are Euro-centric cultures.

ColourWheel said:
Unless China doesn't want "Donghua" to eventually have it's own cultural identity it's only going to keep living in the shadow of Japan's Anime.
The word that you use has nothing to do with its cultural identity. No one is going to be confused when they watch Chinese or Korean animation and don't hear Japanese being spoken.

ColourWheel said:
--- Suspecting the Chinese government really wants is to eventually take over the culture of Anime by infiltrating Western Anime fandom. Slipping in enough palatable "Donghua" titles in Databases like MAL to the likeness of Japanese Anime to the point that new and future western fan won't be able to tell the difference between the two. Just to culturally appropriate Anime using cold war tactics till more Chinese "Donghua" exist than actual Japanese "Anime". ---
There is a lot of bigotry in the anime community, sadly. All the nerds were virtue signaling when they wanted to appear more cosmopolitan for defending Japanese culture, but sadly revert back to xenophobia when it comes to other Asian cultures. That's why the typical MAL reviewer rated this masterpiece -- Seoul Station -- terribly because they "found the voices annoying". But these McCarthyist Asian culture haters are just ignorant, plain and simple. First of all, the precursor to the xianxia genre (diety fantasy), which is the dominant genre in Chinese anime, is wuxia (martial fantasy), which was invented by Hong Kong and Taiwanese authors exercising veiled political criticism of colonialism and communism by dressing it up in fiction. The most popular wuxia works had plots of, for example, the protagonist upending established social order because the classifications of "good" and "evil" seemed to simplistic. This moral relativism is exactly what the Chinese communist government tried to censor when they disowned Confucianism and Taoism, etc, and prevented people from pushing ideologies contrary to the government.

The Legend of Condor Heroes had also been appropriated by Japanese anime under the name Shin Chou Kyou Ryo. Surely you don't think the Japanese government was helping sell Chinese propaganda?

The other dominant genre in Chinese anime is BL (i.e. boys love, yaoi). And the Chinese government just did a mass media censoring of dozens of popular actors and their works for being too "feminine" and pushing a liberal vision of masculinity.

Anyone who watches Chinese anime and sees the moral relativism and the frankly gay shit and think the Chinese government is behind that doesn't know shit about the Chinese government, and probably just want to buy into Donald Trump's racist rhetoric about the trade deficit, while they somehow simultaneously fanboy Putin's fascism. Do you know why?


I bet these people's parents also thought "Chinese cartoons" (i.e. Japanese animation) were communist imports meant to destroy American values, while they shot up Eagles records for being Satanic. It's just ridiculous.
katsucatsMar 6, 2022 8:52 PM
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Mar 6, 2022 9:01 PM

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ColourWheel said:
Since it doesn't seem like "Donghua" is ever going to suddenly disappear from MAL (which honestly I wouldn't mind if it did). I think MAL and MAL users have a responsibility to help educate new and future Anime fans, so user like the OP of this thread don't go on thinking that "Chinese Anime" is an actual thing (not having a go at the OP either).
I'll cap my rant off by noting this. The OP said "Chinese anime". Obviously, being prepended by the "Chinese", OP did not think that "Chinese anime" was Japanese, nor did it indicate somehow that he didn't think "anime" was by default Japanese, given that he specifically clarified Chinese anime. So I fail to see what OP supposedly thought was or was not an actual thing...

This seems like just a trite semantic disagreement, like your issue is with the specific terminology of a casual word than anything of substance. This is why I said what I said in my original post. This isn't, or shouldn't be, important to anyone besides people who for whatever reason want to put Japanese culture on the pedestal, to distinguish it from other Asian cultures. Sociological terminology calls that fetishism, but I'd understand why that term is controversial and hurtful to the people who perpetuate it (... :/)

ColourWheel said:
I apologize right now if I happen to offend anyone.
No offense taken. I doubt anyone else is offended either.
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Mar 6, 2022 9:16 PM

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they censor things. like I'll start avoiding sony if they censor things too. very simple, if they make a pure anime without booba in first place then it's okay but if they remove fun things from the show it feels like a bad adaptation already.

by keeping anime only yes I'm talking about anime only not chinese cartoon :>
Mar 6, 2022 10:02 PM

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hazecloud said:
they censor things. like I'll start avoiding sony if they censor things too. very simple, if they make a pure anime without booba in first place then it's okay but if they remove fun things from the show it feels like a bad adaptation already.

by keeping anime only yes I'm talking about anime only not chinese cartoon :>
lmao Sony does censor things. That's why they make movies that target MSRP ratings. Anime censors things also, so that they could be played in their time slots. Acting as if all anime adaptations are good and everything else counts as censorship smh

I frankly don't give a shit if anyone hates Chinese anime. It's just so excessively obvious when it's politically motivated and people act like it's not.
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Mar 6, 2022 10:03 PM

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katsucats said:
ColourWheel said:
I am personally Korean which is far from being "white-people". So I think you need to view an opposition to "Donghua" from perspective that isn't about race.
It doesn't really matter what race you are. You're still being led on by white-empowered Euro-centrism. Let me explain. Anime, from a Japanese perspective, is just a contraction of animation. Disney is anime. It doesn't specifically refer to any cultural medium. It's not some exotic thing. Manga literally means comics and nothing further. Since you're Korean, you should know that the Japanese kanji for manga is exactly the same as the words they imported, namely the Chinese manhua and the Korean manhwa. They mean exactly the same thing, down to the way they're written.

So what does donghua mean? In Japanese, it would be douga. Its kanji literally means "moving picture". Nothing else. In fact, Japanese used this world before the Americanized contraption was popularized. Nobody in any Asian culture thinks donghua means Chinese animation in particular. Nobody in any Asian culture thinks anime means Japanese animation in particular. Period. These are ideas sold to you by the marketing and fetishization by white people, period.

Now, you can use the words donghua to refer to "Chinese animation" and anime to refer to "Japanese animation" if it pleases you, due to Western convention if anything, but please spare us the lecture. It is not written anywhere that these are the words that mean these things. It is not fact. In fact, "anime" in Western usage was invented in the 80s to make Japanese animation easier to sell because the term before that, Japanimation, was too long. Then fans started adopting this marketing logic to manhwa and donghua, etc. But nobody uses "peliculas" to refer to Spanish movies, or "animer" to refer to French animation. Do you know why? Because these are Euro-centric cultures.


I know Anime was born from Disney but you don't see "Dragon Ball" along side "Peter Pan" and "Snow White" as if they all belong together simply because they are all Animations. Anime might have started off as a contraction of animation but close to the late 80s anime started developing it's own unique culture. Call it fetishism if you want.

The term "Japanimation" was actually coined by 'Central Park Media" which was in the 90's though that term didn't last long for the reason you originally described. The thing is the term Anime has been used way before that. I even remember my parents who use to frequent Japan as missionaries from Korea quite often calling Japanese animation "Anime" even back in the 70s. Every time my father would watch the VHS tapes he brought home he even called them Anime.

Also you are actually misinformed when you say that "nobody in any Asian culture thinks "donghua" means Chinese animation" because the Japanese sure do know the difference. If you have actually spoken to enough real Japanese "otaku's" that live in Japan, they will be insulted if you call animation from china "Anime". Just because they aren't some form of authority I still respect their views. It's the Japanese fans that perpetuate the culture more so than any outside influence. I have met plenty of doujinshi artist in Japan who have probably gone on to becoming todays artist in the industry. Even they share the same view.

Regardless if you think it's "white-empowered Euro-centrism." I am just explaining things from my own perspective growing up where I have been around anime pretty much my entire life.

Now I can't read or write in any Asian language but I can speak Japanese quite fluently since I been married to a Japanese woman for almost two decades now. I have simply learned it just from living with my wife, even though she has a very strong Osaka accent. The reason for my lack of literacy is simply because I have spent a majority of my educated life in America.

Now I am not going to talk about Korean manhwa because I don't see it being actively flooded in the MAL database.

But just after reading your lengthy reply you really seem to have you own strong opinion of this and there is really no point to continue debating. It's obvious you have a completely different perspective.

I still think it's a disservice to the culture when simply calling anything that is animation made outside of Japan "Anime". This includes American Animation, Korean Animation, or even animation from Afghanistan if that actually exists.
ColourWheelMar 6, 2022 10:31 PM
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I've only seen Link Click to be honest and its one of my all time favorites. Really great concept and use of time travel, but some really heartfelt scenes and beautiful characterization.

If most donghuas are like that, I'd wager that I'd probably like it more than anime.
Mar 6, 2022 10:25 PM

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ColourWheel said:
I know Anime was born from Disney but you don't see "Dragon Ball" along side "Peter Pan" and "Snow White" as if they all belong together simply because they are all Animations. Anime might have started off as a contraction of animation but close to the late 80s anime started developing it's own unique culture. Call it fetishism if you want.
It didn't just start as contraction. It is contraction and it still is contraction. Contraction is a common feature of the Japanese language. It's so anime that it's listed in Japanese anime listing sites (see Frozen and Mo Dao Zu Shi). You do see Dragon Ball alongside Peter Pan in that they're both anime. Japanese people understand that Peter Pan is not Japanese anime, it's American anime.

ColourWheel said:
Also you are actually misinformed when you say that "nobody in any Asian culture thinks "donghua" means Chinese animation" because the Japanese sure do know the difference. If you have actually spoken to enough real Japanese "otaku's" that live in Japan, they will be insulted if you call animation for china "Anime".
I doubt it, unless it's politically motivated, since plenty of Japanese and Chinese nationalists hate each other. Japanese people have no problem calling Disney works anime. They have no problem adapting Quanzhi Gaoshou as a light novel, and dubbing a Blu-ray of Mo Dao Zhu Shi for its local audience -- all under the moniker of a "TVใ‚ขใƒ‹ใƒกๅ‹•็”ป" -- which translates exactly to "TV anime douga".

ColourWheel said:
I still think it's a disservice to the culture when simply called anything animation made outside of Japan "Anime". This includes American Animation, Korean Animation, or even Animation from Afghanistan if that actually exists.
That's your perspective, but nobody in Japan cares if people use a word for what it is meant to describe.

The Japanese people in the comments call Mo Dao Zhu Shi a "Chinese anime"... like I did.


If doujinshi artists really got offended from calling animation "anime", then I wonder if they burst blood vessels every time they deal with Japanese anime industry standards and Japanese dictionaries. Or perhaps you're just misunderstanding that Japanese people not considering Chinese anime Japanese (rightfully so) doesn't also confer that Japanese people don't use the word anime to describe anime? Ask your Japanese wife if this is the case and I'll concede. I will say that people in Chinese speaking countries regularly call Japanese anime "anime" along with "riben donghua" because they understand that anime is by definition (the Japanese word for) donghua. And at least officially, this understanding is symmetrical to the Japanese.
katsucatsMar 6, 2022 10:55 PM
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Mar 6, 2022 11:14 PM

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katsucats said:
.

The Japanese people in the comments call Mo Dao Zhu Shi a "Chinese anime"... like I did.



And? Anime in the west has different meaning. It means strictly Japanese animation. It was always like this. Japanese people has many words borrowed for example English but they mean something different or slightly different (wasei-eigo). It doesn't matter what anime means in Japan. In the west people started calling Japanese animation like this to make it clear that they mean Japanese animation and only Japanese.
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Mar 6, 2022 11:23 PM

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@katsucats

It's obvious a lot has changed since I been in Japan. It's like my entire view of the anime industry has been turned upside down since I have last been there in 2010. Everything you have been sharing these past few post would have been complete taboo back then.

But I am still not completely convinced unless I have experienced it myself. since I have plans to eventually visit relatives in Osaka in 2024, I might just have to take a trip again to Akihabara.

I will get back to you on all this again if you really wish. For now I will believe what you have been saying. Because I doubt you are trying to purposely dupe me.

But I find it interesting that you been selectively quoting me which makes me think you aren't refuting everything else I been posting.
ColourWheelMar 6, 2022 11:43 PM
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Only seen https://myanimelist.net/anime/35015/Ani_ni_Tsukeru_Kusuri_wa_Nai S1-3 not S4 I think as my only Chinese anime/Donghua so far and yeah even though it's a comedy series it gave off weirder vibes than most Japanese anime, names are a bit harder to remember/the language with the audio kind of at times to follow even if I don't understand the language the voices/words still can be, and while different in a good way kind of something I need to get used. Though in Manhwa the Korean terms weren't too hard to understand but can still see it being the case with any language or in moving/no on screen translation/notes.

Would say the acting is fine but as only have one example and a comedy not the best to go off of even for the normal/crazy scenes on and off as much as most even if possible to differentiate some parts I guess of quality. Art wise it was fine though in that one, think it was on the plain side though. I think others probably offer more than just the one example of course. Have seen I think a more higher budget movie I forget the name of that was Chinese or Korean but forget the name and it was surprisingly good in many areas but it was a high budget 3D CGI (not live action) movie not 2D or anime on the typical level comparable so not counting it in this comparison.

The others I've heard of I can understand the appeal but not found any outside the one I mentioned yet/cared to venture further as still got many anime/manga to explore.

Though even Manhwa (not read any manhua yet) felt kind of odd in good and bad ways compared to manga, whether Ero or not. Some terms were understandable but some story and names at times were still strange or confusing on different levels.
Suntanned_Duck2Mar 6, 2022 11:46 PM
Mar 6, 2022 11:37 PM

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99% of chinese sucks. There is few that I enjoyed (like Mi Yu Xing Zhe). Japanese anime are way better
Mar 6, 2022 11:39 PM

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I've watched 4 so far, they're improving in all areas but it still isn't on par with Japan
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Mar 6, 2022 11:47 PM

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ryo-san said:
and incarnation spirit cage sounds my kind of supernatural mystery from the title...

If you are talking about Spirit Cage: Incarnation aka Ling Long: Incarnation it's actually a dystopian sci-fi action horror with some social commentaries...and I recommend it.

If you search for supernatural mysteries those shows fit the description better - Lie Huo Jiao Chou / Drowning Sorrows in Raging Fire, Mindiao Ju Yiwen Lu / Bureau of Paranormal Investigation and Daomu Biji Zhi Qinling Shen Shu / Tomb Robber Notes Qinling God Tree.
alshuMar 6, 2022 11:59 PM
Mar 7, 2022 12:03 AM

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rsc-pl said:

And? Anime in the west has different meaning. It means strictly Japanese animation. It was always like this. Japanese people has many words borrowed for example English but they mean something different or slightly different (wasei-eigo). It doesn't matter what anime means in Japan. In the west people started calling Japanese animation like this to make it clear that they mean Japanese animation and only Japanese.
You can call it whatever you want. But it should be clear to anyone exactly what anyone means when they say "Chinese anime", and if you're offended by that notion then it would be on you.

ColourWheel said:
@katsucats

It's obvious a lot has changed since I been in Japan. It's like my entire view of the anime industry has been turned upside down since I have last been there in 2010. Everything you have been sharing these past few post would have been complete taboo back then.

But I am still not completely convinced unless I have experienced it myself. since I have plans to eventually visit relatives in Osaka in 2024, I might just have to take a trip again to Akihabara.
I wouldn't dare say that a lot has changed since 2010. This is my understanding of how the word is used. I might suggest that perhaps people have reservations that Chinese anime is on the same level as Japanese anime, or that they think it shouldn't be included under the umbrella of a Japanese cultural export. But my hunch rightly or wrongly is that they wouldn't be held up on the word "anime" itself, since as you would be able to see by searching for it on Google, it is commonly used to describe all kinds of animation.

ColourWheel said:
I will get back to you on all this again if you really wish. For now I will believe what you have been saying. Because I doubt you are trying to purposely dupe me.
Please do so.

ColourWheel said:
But I find it interesting that you been selectively quoting me which makes me think you aren't refuting everything else I been posting.
I tend to quote what I think are the most important points. I'm not going to dispute you on the coinage of the term "Japanimation", etc. That isn't central to the debate, and I'll simply take your word for it.
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