Monogatari Series: First Season
Bengofo said: OMFG SO CUTE I WAN DA SEX DAT LOLEEEYuiCutie said: ^^^because lolis are beautiful :D Chainssss said: ppl fr aint findin dis bootiful??!?!?!??1/fr da y dafak retireds thin loli a bad ting so unbased🤣🤣🤣  |
| Cause the quality of show is so good that people just forget those aspects. Atleast I do. But Eromanga sensei is considered bad even as a story so people all the things in the world to shit on it. Monogatari uses its fanservice to improve character interactions too, so its not necessarily useless fanservice. Besides Araragi being a lolicon, he is one of the best male protagonists around. |
| because it has a great story and is adapted by one and only studio shaft now get over it |
| One is dead doll Second one is a ghost with actually 21 age. Third one is 500+ age. Rest, yeah I also hate Tsukihi and Karen fanservices. Fanservice is one of the reason I didn't rate any monogatari series a 10. Even tho its my favourite. |
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| Because they realised that lolis are great after watching Monogatari. |
| Hypocrisy. I've been called pedo for liking characters from K-On and Clannad and it's aways a monogatari-stan who does it. Monogatari is "cool" and artistic so it gets a pass from the hipster elite. |
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condevpc said: This is called missing the forest for the trees.Okay I kinda feel like ranting some more. Spoilers, probably, but if you're the oc that train has sailed. On the hachikuji-araragi dynamic: I found the sexual assault thing weird as fuck at first.Actually,I found the whole show so weird. I think until Tsubasa tiger I was like "hmmm so is this art or lowkey porn?".Which,for me,really enhanced the experience.I didn't know if I was watching a master piece or a big pile of garbage. But as I saw more and kinda got it. There's nothing ever sexual about the assault thing.its sexual only on the very surface, the aesthetics are sexual. But if you watch the characters, there's absolutely no sexual chemistry ,absolutely no hornyness at all involved. they're playing around. Araragi and hachikuji are best friends, that's her role. It's beautiful I love this shit so much. Anyways, not sexual. Weird as fuck, sure. Because Japanese are weird, cause anime tropes are fucking weird. By the end of the series it's spelled out four you: hachikuji is not a child. She's 21. That makes so much fucking sense, because she never behaves like a child, at all. This will be relevant later. Now, about shinobu. Shinobu and Araragi's relationship is so complex and weird. It's a kind of love that doesn't exist in the real world. Is the love between an inmortal vampire and their inmortal master. And it's nothing like the love between lovers, between friends, between peers. Shit I love this series so much. Point is, araragi never perceives or treats shinobu sexually, specially when she's full loli. The first time she talks in the show she's just naked in the bath which him, and he doesn't bat an eye, and nothing in the framing and camerawork of the scene portrays the moment as sexual or sexy. Now that said, shinobu is cute af. She's moe incarnate. She's just so cute. And that's I think fully intencional, and also serves a purpose. Now, last loli, nadeko. Of the 3 main lolis, nadeko is the only actual child. And is shows. She's dumb as a 14yo girl. I love her arc, but I don't like her and never did, because she's fucking well written. She's a dumb kid and that's perfect. Araragi does find her kinda hot,cos she is,and she's like only 3 years younger that him so that's not really weird I mean I had a 15yr old gfwhen I was 18,and we were both pretty much dumb kids. Anyways,I digress. Araragi is careful around her cos she's an actual kid and he's kinda of scared of crossing some lines. All of this is part of the text of the show. Now,tell me how the fuck is araragi a pedo. These people,God damn. Now,psa: Im what u call an sjw, fucking incel shits. I fly a red flag, I only do polygamous relationships and I'd fuck the queen of England in the ass if I could. Fuck normalizing oppressive shit and fuck your masculinity, you sad lonely people. That said,I like anime. I recently finished oreimo. It's trash. It's kinda problematic.I enjoyed it a lot 8/10. And monogatari is peak art. Fuck you,go grab a book on how the fuck the reading thingy should be done. OK lov u all uwu Edit1 ye the autocorrect, and my posts are a mess. You can fill the gaps Edit2 I'd forgotten how good it feels to call dumb people dumb on the internet. This migh have awoken something. And, in all seriousness, if you think araragi is a pedo, I'm not saying you're stupid. Monogatari is very cryptic. But you should consider maybe a re watch, and maybe thinking critically about the media you consume. I mean, some times, at least when there's a lot of very evident authorial intent behind the work, as is the case. |
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PiyushSan said: epidemia78 said: Hypocrisy. I've been called pedo for liking characters from K-On and Clannad and it's aways a monogatari-stan who does it. Monogatari is "cool" and artistic so it gets a pass from the hipster elite. I've never seen a Monogatari stan calling someone else a pedo unironically. It happens. I think it's because Monogatari tends to attract an intellectual crowd who are more likely than your average weeb to be contemptuous towards anime like K-On. |
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| I saw people who claims to be against "lolis", but are fan of Monogatari. They are problably hypocrites or they have seen a different "Monogatari" because otherwise I can't explain. |
wazzupdog said: Other anime that sexualise lolis become very controversial. Anime like Eromanga Sensei and Kodomo no Jikan get a lot of hate and controversy for sexualising kids. Yet for some reason people seem to be okay with it in the Monogatari series. Why is this exactly? The main character is complete pedophile who hits on young girls. All the lolis in the show are given ecchi fan service scenes as well. And yet people are more okay with this than lolis in other anime? Could someone explain to me why they’re okay with it here? I’m not judging anyone for their taste. I just want to Understand. Thank you. It's a good show. And you newposters have to stop making shit threads like this. If you dont like lolis, dont watch anime. You people complain too fucking much and it is pathetic. |
| Probably because sexualization isn't the main focus of this anime unlike ecchi shows & the story is good enough to distract viewers from it. Sure Araragi likes to grope Hachikuji but like most comedic segments of the episode, it is quickly forgotten as the show returns to it's original dynamic. |
| holy shit so many people misunderstood the thing OP actually asking. anyways onto the topic. Not sure but it has to do with the writing I guess? and the quality of the show in general. I read someone comparing Hisoka and Mineta. I think you guys already can see the difference why one is loved and one is hated even tho both is perverted scum. |
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| Honestly - I don't fucking know, and I'm not ok with that. It's gross, really |
| i can't shake the suspicion that people exaggerate how much is going on beneath the surface in monogatari. it's written by a guy who said of some parts of the series that he was just creating erotic fanfiction featuring characters from a work he was already just writing '4 fun,' and didn't intend it for public consumption. and to me, it shows. people say things about how the characters are "deconstructions" without actually knowing what the word means. they seemingly just say it because they heard someone else say it about some other thing. the superficial appeal of monogatari is extremely compelling, and comes from recognizing the desires of anime fans and celebrating their culture unabashedly with references and meta acknowledgement of the tropes it employs. which is all fine and good in and of itself. the writer is clever, knowledgeable, makes witty verbal gags, is capable of writing an engaging supernatural mystery etc. however you cannot suggest the behavior of the character has no connection to their psychological activity, in which light the series is filled with unmotivated erotic tension just for the sake of it, regardless of how it undermines the characterization the characters had received that solidifies them as individuals. if the point is "these are just characters, naturalism is of no consequence because you know they're not people," then at that point I still don't care about the interpersonal drama? it still undermines the drama in their relationships. the harem is like a black hole that consumes all logic. monogatari isn't the only anime that's like this, but it's the only one where its defenders are just turning their brains inside out to justify on a mental level liking what parts of the show are appealing to them viscerally. lolicons or even just normal anime fans never want to admit that they've experienced a sexual attraction to a child's body, unsurprisingly. taboo is that powerful. forgive me if i'm "only" basing my opinion of the franchise off of 2 series and 3 movies but i dont have the patience to keep watching until i get to the part where it's finally revealed how smart the show is. also i agree, especially as an eroguro fan, that sexualization and exploitation in absolute fiction featuring cartoon characters isn't a problem at all, at face value. however, the question of how popular anime functions as commodity and a hegemonic tool is nontrivial. basically my point is people make a special exception for monogatari because it's somewhat clever, visually beautiful and the most successful otaku bait of all time. |
ohohohohohohoJul 23, 2021 3:42 PM
| Because the fanbase is based |
| Stuff in the streets, Stuff with drip in the sheets |
| i wonder when mod gonna lock this thread. people now cant just accept it that monogatari just fiction based series. |
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| Because Monogatari is a niche, it is known for being "weird" by almost any otaku and the mainstream usually stays away from it since its a little hard to get into, while these anime you mentioned are well known and watched by the masses |
LightVelox said: Because Monogatari is a niche, it is known for being "weird" by almost any otaku and the mainstream usually stays away from it since its a little hard to get into, while these anime you mentioned are well known and watched by the masses Do you seriously think that Eromanga sensei and Kodomo no Jikan are more well known than Monogatari? Monogatari might not be Demon Slayer levels of mainstream but it's far from being unknown. |
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Mirai said: LightVelox said: Because Monogatari is a niche, it is known for being "weird" by almost any otaku and the mainstream usually stays away from it since its a little hard to get into, while these anime you mentioned are well known and watched by the masses Do you seriously think that Eromanga sensei and Kodomo no Jikan are more well known than Monogatari? Monogatari might not be Demon Slayer levels of mainstream but it's far from being unknown. Well known is not the same thing as mainstream, it's one of the most well known anime but it's watched mostly by hardcore otakus, you barely ever find anyone outside of this niche talking about it other than "Kizu's animation looks really good, gonna watch it one day!". Most people that are the type to criticize this would probably drop at ep 3 of Bake at most rather than watch over 100 episodes of it |
| Its used as a joke, also Hachikuji is a tragic character. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
Amatniki said: op and anyone else who cries about "sexualizing lolis" is fucking retarded Agreed, funny how they love genocide because "it's just fiction" but somehow this argument is invalid for loli |
PiyushSan said: Cause it doesn't feel creepy in Monogatari series. Most of the times it's used for comedic purposes and stuff. This, |
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| @condevpc sorry if some of my reading of the series seems off but obviously im a little disadvantaged having not seen all of it, i haven't watched it in a while, and it's not something i remember entirely fondly lol. also i want to be clear that i don't mean to be mean to anyone with any of the stuff i say. i don't mean to accuse anyone of being a certain type of way. i don't necessarily think the old picture of an otaku as a sweaty guy with no social life is 100% accurate today, but either way i don't pretend to know enough about anyone i talk to on MAL to judge what kind of person they are. part of what i mean about the harem "consuming all logic" is that the show is still using the harem and fanservice at the level that they are usually, conventionally employed in anime. whatever reason behind the pleas it's making for me to accept that the little girls are not ACTUALLY, mentally, behaviorally, little girls, and that every girl that araragi comes across is comfortable being ogled or intentionally entering erotic circumstances with him, can be put aside for now. these are just the everyday fantasies of anime that you suspend your disbelief to enjoy (or for some people, you enjoy because you don't actually have a grounded, substantial social reality to contrast it with). this is the level at which monogatari is consumed, i would argue, by the majority of its fans, regardless of what their appreciation of the show is beyond that. i mean evangelion, meant to be a scathing critique of otaku, is treated the same way. fans overlook the fact that rei is one of an endless supply of emotionless clones of shinji's mom and his desire for her is supposed to be fucked up and unhealthy no matter how much of a point is made of it in the narrative, and i don't think monogatari goes to the same lengths to alert you to the possibility there's anything too fantastical or abnormal about the fact there's an erotic (feigned or not) dimension to araragi's relationship with every girl around him. however i can try to provide a few examples, and again forgive me if i'm overlooking something. 1) isn't kanbaru introduced as gay? not only does her behavior betray that (which mind you, i'm not saying it's beyond the realm of possibility for a woman to say she's gay but still like some men or realize she's bi later, or just say one thing and do another, or jokingly prod a straight guy, or whatever. still, i think monogatari takes this and stretches our belief to the extreme for the sake of the over the top nature of the ecchi gags, and that may be the point, or not. i want to reiterate that part of the logic of the harem is that our belief is stretched to the extreme for the sake of the male protagonist to experience erotic tension/compromising erotic gag situations with every female cast member, and this is conventional for harem anime. also, kanbaru's sexuality is not something deliberately handled by the narrative from what I've seen, so we are assuming a lot here) but isn't there an initial moment where her presence is treated as a sort of trust test between senjougahara and araragi? is she eligible for a legitimate sexual encounter with araragi, or not? isn't it only ambiguous, and imo not to the benefit of her character, only because it's sexier that way? i remember once i looked through the wikipedia "list of gay characters in anime" and she wasn't there... :( 2) i seem to remember at the end of bakemonogatari araragi expressing substantial disbelief that hanekawa has ever thought of him as anything more than a friend, and based on her characterization in bakemonogatari, that's really believable. however, based on hanekawa's and their relationship's characterization in the kizu films... i really don't think it's very believable at all that he'd feel that way. the more i watched through the films, the more i felt the characterization established in bakemonogatari was betrayed for indulging the conventional fantasy of a harem anime. incidentally i'm pretty sure the kizu films in particular were the "erotic fanfic" in question. i believe i found the quote on a fan wiki while i was looking up the order to watch the series in, in other words before watching the films; but after watching the films it made perfect sense to me that he wrote them for himself, given how it spun hanekawa/araragi's relationship. also the kizu light novel was the first followup to the original story, so it makes sense in that context as well. unfortunately i don't remember the quote exactly, but if i find it i'll bring it up. you make a fair point that we shouldn't trust the author or necessarily take their words into much consideration, but i felt it made sense to consider the films in that light because to me they do read more like fanfiction than a well considered expansion on what was established in bakemonogatari. maybe the show actually gets better as it goes on because the author decided to take it more seriously? i'd buy that. 3) someone pointed out earlier in the thread that senjougahara is a deconstruction of the tsundere trope, because she's introduced as a tsun/yandere, but that persona fades away as the show goes on and she just turns out to be kind of a weird gal (i gotta be honest, i like senjougahara. she's my favorite part of monogatari, and i like the first arc in bakemonogatari. probably not the hottest take xd). however, the long forgotten point of the tsundere is that her frustration with the male figure stems from the male figure's immaturity and self absorption, which makes it impossible for him to effectively return her feelings or be depended on, "as a man should be." it's not at all strange or new for the tsundere to warm up to the male character, and if the male character experiences growth throughout the series, then they'll hopefully end up together in a much more fruitful relationship. mind you, this isn't typically evident character growth on the tsundere's part, it's the male character's change at the heart of her shift. as anime has grown more postmodern in scope, and we have no use for what "a man should be," the tsundere has no anchor either. she's just pointlessly violent toward a guy who can't and won't change (this isn't me saying bring back gender roles btw, just talking about the function of tropes here. old tropes are stranded in a new ideological age without essential referents). there's no narrative purpose beneath the surface of the trope anymore. is araragi's maturity actually at stake in monogatari? to me it felt like their relationship fell by the wayside entirely, and shenjougahara's shifting personality felt somewhat mysterious to me as a result, but again i only watched bake, kizu, and nise. 4) i don't necessarily disagree (or remember) the senjougahara underwear thing you're talking about, but i think it might shed some light on my feelings about "this kind of thing" if i talk about the bath scene in kizu. when the characters are in an intimate situation and the camera is made to enter that setting, we become voyeurs with the permission of the director. we are looking where we, in everyday life, are not supposed to be looking. this is a deliberate choice on the director's part, right? obviously. i like to use the character komori kiri from sayonara zetsubou sensei as an example (you'd like this show if you like monogatari). acknowledgement of the function of this permission to be a voyeur underpins a running gag in the show where a character opens up a door or cabinet, and behind it she is doing something intimate, typically nude, and she firmly says "don't open it!" while she's obviously powerless to do anything about it. the fact that we know we shouldn't see it, she can't stop it, and it always "just so happens" that she's behind a closed door in a compromised position, is the joke. it's obviously not an actual coincidence, it's all deliberate, which is the thing we MUST pretend to not know in order to watch film. you may disagree here, but the absolute INNOCENCE of a male director bringing the male viewer's attention to a naked or half naked female in an intimate setting where he does not belong is always subject to question (though i certainly wouldn't say condemnation). girl's locker room scenes, onsen scenes, bathing scenes, these are always worthy of suspicion. is there a functional NEED for the scene to take place there? everything on the screen and every choice serves a specific function. again, i don't think it's something to lose your head over, but in an anime like hidamari sketch where there's a bathing scene in every episode, i think some people would rightfully feel misled if you told them the show was fanservice free (shaft openly loves jamming their shows full of fanservice). so back to the kizu bath scene. people often brush this scene off with the claim that for shinobu, bathing naked with a man isn't strange because japan wasn't westernized during her lifetime. that is a fair point. araragi is clearly uncomfortable looking at her, too, so it's not framed as erotic FOR HIM. yet we, the voyeurs, are made to scrutinize her body. her feet and butt are repeatedly, suggestively inserted into the center of the frame. the director is a stylist as much as the artists are. in writing, the scene becomes erotic when/if the narrator talks about shinobu's body using certain suggestive language. in film the director is the narrator. it's not so much the fact of what's being depicted but how and why. but i think we both understand that and are just reading things a bit differently. that common ground is probably why we're talking in the first place, i don't foresee too many "blah blah fake woke sjw" types giving genuine consideration to any of our posts. |
ohohohohohohoJul 22, 2021 1:37 PM
LightVelox said: The difference is that at least genocide in fiction is never portrayed as a good thing, it is always bad, and if there is a series or movie that says that genocide is fine, even the sexualized lolis in the anime continue to show it as if it were something normal, I never saw an anime that says that sexualizing lolis is wrong.Amatniki said: op and anyone else who cries about "sexualizing lolis" is fucking retarded Agreed, funny how they love genocide because "it's just fiction" but somehow this argument is invalid for loli |
 a wise user of MAL said: Just to clarify, adaptations should absolutely stand on their own |
| This is like saying classical art should be regarded the same way as some trashy porno because they both have naked people. Hard to belief anyone could watch Bakemonogatari (or any other entry in the series) and really wonder why it isn't seen in the same way as freaking Eromanga-sensei. |
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| Probably because the people who watch it are anime veterans who've been desensitized to it over the years. There is like at least one loli in every ecchi harem anime. Even I've been desensitized to it lol. |
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Leoradiuju2004 said: Funny cause Attack on Titan and Tensei Shitara Slime both portray genocide as good or atleast neutral and are extremely popularLightVelox said: The difference is that at least genocide in fiction is never portrayed as a good thing, it is always bad, and if there is a series or movie that says that genocide is fine, even the sexualized lolis in the anime continue to show it as if it were something normal, I never saw an anime that says that sexualizing lolis is wrong.Agreed, funny how they love genocide because "it's just fiction" but somehow this argument is invalid for loli |
| as far as i know, many people complain about the sexualized lolis in monogatari |
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| I'm really not okay with it but i enjoy the shows style so i try hard to look past the perverted shit in favor of the story |
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LightVelox said: I have not seen the other anime, but before the end, the genocide in AOT was never shown as a good thing,Leoradiuju2004 said: The difference is that at least genocide in fiction is never portrayed as a good thing, it is always bad, and if there is a series or movie that says that genocide is fine, even the sexualized lolis in the anime continue to show it as if it were something normal, I never saw an anime that says that sexualizing lolis is wrong. Genocide in Attack on Titan and Tensei Shitara Slime seemed very "good thing" to me |
a wise user of MAL said: Just to clarify, adaptations should absolutely stand on their own |
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