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#1
May 26, 2020 12:10 PM

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I love Yoko Kanno's music. I do. But my admiration for her has been dimmed considerably because the amount of work that this woman has stolen from other artists isn't funny anymore.

I just started watching "Wolf's Rain" and in the second episode at the very end, there comes a theme that sounded way too familiar:

Yoko Kanno

and this is Finding Beauty by Craig Armstrong. Released only a year before "Wolf's Rain"


This is by far not the only time she has done shit like this

Yoko Kanno: Pushing the Sky


Complete rip-off of Lunatic Calm's Leave You Far Behind



On Reddit there is actually a whole post with links so one can compare, which lists all sorts of tracks from Cowboy Bebop alone, which were ripped off

Cowboy Bebop Songs that sound very familiar

and I am sure there is also a list somewhere fo Ghost in the Shell because I am sure she didn't only rip-off songs by Hooverphonic (Battersea to be exact - her track Cyberbird has way too many elements from that song to call it a song that was only inspired by it)

There is a fine line between "tribute" and blatant plagiarism and in most cases, Yoko Kanno has crossed the line completely. Not. Funny.
 
#2
May 30, 2020 9:19 PM

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Uh-huh! tell us something else that we don't know please. Besides, nobody cares about details in sound and for the record, all music is subjective.

Like Corey Tailor once said in an interview "You don't sell out concerts, meet millions of fans and go platinum if your music sucks. Period". Therefore, nobody thinks that Yoko Kanno's is ever bad.

As long as you can relate to the melody, intensity, whatever of the music, then you got nothing to complain about. Other than that, who cares? and again, tell us something we don't know, that is, something new.

Nothing but a thread from someone who overanalyzes music, but doesn't know how to appreciate it and use it build dopamine. That's why your thread is besides the point in terms music appreciation.

Lastly, I don't know what you're on buddy, but I that you need to lay off the stress and anxiety.
Modified by Kurt_Irving, May 30, 2020 10:22 PM
 
#3
Feb 13, 2021 2:44 PM

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Kurt_Irving said:
Uh-huh! tell us something else that we don't know please. Besides, nobody cares about details in sound and for the record, all music is subjective.

Like Corey Tailor once said in an interview "You don't sell out concerts, meet millions of fans and go platinum if your music sucks. Period". Therefore, nobody thinks that Yoko Kanno's is ever bad.

As long as you can relate to the melody, intensity, whatever of the music, then you got nothing to complain about. Other than that, who cares? and again, tell us something we don't know, that is, something new.

Nothing but a thread from someone who overanalyzes music, but doesn't know how to appreciate it and use it build dopamine. That's why your thread is besides the point in terms music appreciation.

Lastly, I don't know what you're on buddy, but I that you need to lay off the stress and anxiety.


Don’t be a fan boy. Plagiarism is fucked and should be called out that way. If Hans zimmer ripped of Sawano I’m sure you’d start whining. It doesn’t matter who does it, stealing is stealing and there is nothing wrong with calling it out even if it has been said before. To be honest you seem like the one who’s anxious lol.
 
#4
Feb 13, 2021 3:14 PM

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You're right. She's ripped off so many people, so much that I wouldn't even consider her a "composer," but more of a "cover artist."

 
 
#5
Feb 14, 2021 1:06 AM

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The worst offender are the instrumental tracks from macross frontier. They sound so much like star wars it seems like she didn't even bother to hide it. I find it curious though that on the macross frontier soundtrack she only ripped off star wars tracks that are known to be copied from other music so maybe that's a trick to avoid lawsuits.
The vocal tracks from macross on the other hand are fine (they're my favorite thing she's ever done) except maybe 星間飛行 which includes the riff from smoke on the water.
MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST
 
 
#6
Feb 16, 2021 1:43 AM
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KaiserHamuel said:
Kurt_Irving said:
Uh-huh! tell us something else that we don't know please. Besides, nobody cares about details in sound and for the record, all music is subjective.

Like Corey Tailor once said in an interview "You don't sell out concerts, meet millions of fans and go platinum if your music sucks. Period". Therefore, nobody thinks that Yoko Kanno's is ever bad.

As long as you can relate to the melody, intensity, whatever of the music, then you got nothing to complain about. Other than that, who cares? and again, tell us something we don't know, that is, something new.

Nothing but a thread from someone who overanalyzes music, but doesn't know how to appreciate it and use it build dopamine. That's why your thread is besides the point in terms music appreciation.

Lastly, I don't know what you're on buddy, but I that you need to lay off the stress and anxiety.


Don’t be a fan boy. Plagiarism is fucked and should be called out that way. If Hans zimmer ripped of Sawano I’m sure you’d start whining. It doesn’t matter who does it, stealing is stealing and there is nothing wrong with calling it out even if it has been said before. To be honest you seem like the one who’s anxious lol.


One of my favorite composers is John Williams, and guess what, he's ripped so much shit from classical music yet he is still considered one of the greatest film composers of all time. I'm not defending Yoko Kanno but the line between inspiration and plagiarism is very blurry in music and is difficult to truly tell. There is basically no such thing as truly original music. Furthermore, temp tracks are a thing.

There is a quote that many respected artists have parroted in some form but it essentially boils down to "good artists borrow, great artists steal."
Modified by laurincase64, Feb 16, 2021 2:04 AM
 
#7
Feb 16, 2021 2:47 AM

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laurincase said:
KaiserHamuel said:


Don’t be a fan boy. Plagiarism is fucked and should be called out that way. If Hans zimmer ripped of Sawano I’m sure you’d start whining. It doesn’t matter who does it, stealing is stealing and there is nothing wrong with calling it out even if it has been said before. To be honest you seem like the one who’s anxious lol.


One of my favorite composers is John Williams, and guess what, he's ripped so much shit from classical music yet he is still considered one of the greatest film composers of all time. I'm not defending Yoko Kanno but the line between inspiration and plagiarism is very blurry in music and is difficult to truly tell. There is basically no such thing as truly original music. Furthermore, temp tracks are a thing.

There is a quote that many respected artists have parroted in some form but it essentially boils down to "good artists borrow, great artists steal."


I agree with what you’re saying but it’s clear that Kano has crossed that line on far too many occasions. I’ll of course do my own research, but if what you say about Williams is true then he gets the same treatment. While it’s true that all art is inspired by something, that doesn’t stop artists from flagrantly stealing and that should be recognised as such when It happens no matter the culprit. In this case it’s
Kano being criticised. Even if it is standard practice it shouldn’t be ignored.

That’s just my opinion anyhow.
 
#8
Feb 16, 2021 4:03 AM

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Personally I like Tsuneo Imahori better
 
#9
Feb 23, 2021 9:43 AM

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Theo1899 said:
The worst offender are the instrumental tracks from macross frontier. They sound so much like star wars it seems like she didn't even bother to hide it. I find it curious though that on the macross frontier soundtrack she only ripped off star wars tracks that are known to be copied from other music so maybe that's a trick to avoid lawsuits.
The vocal tracks from macross on the other hand are fine (they're my favorite thing she's ever done) except maybe 星間飛行 which includes the riff from smoke on the water.


I never listened to macross but that sounds bad. She is actually a fairly good composer but when someone plagiarises as shamelessly as she does, she loses all credibility. If you plagiarise your work in science or at university it means you are kicked out by the first (or sometimes second) offence and rightly so.
 
Feb 23, 2021 9:59 AM

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laurincase said:
KaiserHamuel said:


Don’t be a fan boy. Plagiarism is fucked and should be called out that way. If Hans zimmer ripped of Sawano I’m sure you’d start whining. It doesn’t matter who does it, stealing is stealing and there is nothing wrong with calling it out even if it has been said before. To be honest you seem like the one who’s anxious lol.


One of my favorite composers is John Williams, and guess what, he's ripped so much shit from classical music yet he is still considered one of the greatest film composers of all time. I'm not defending Yoko Kanno but the line between inspiration and plagiarism is very blurry in music and is difficult to truly tell. There is basically no such thing as truly original music. Furthermore, temp tracks are a thing.

There is a quote that many respected artists have parroted in some form but it essentially boils down to "good artists borrow, great artists steal."


John Williams never really ripped off. I have been collecting score for several years. What Williams does is actually rather brilliant. He uses what he has learned and transmutes. Star Wars is a very good example. Like Wagner he used the idea of a Leitmotiv (he was the first many followed after him). He never blatantly ripped off. One composer who actually did rip of and did NOT get away with it was Hans Zimmer. He used "Mars, the Bringer of War" shamelessly in "Gladiator" and was called out for it. James Horner (RIP) mostly ripped off himself (which is okay but lazy) but also had a law suit with Enya (that was settled) for his score for "Titanic".

In the case of Yoko Kanno, there are soo many examples of her ripping off shamelessly from other composers that I stopped counting. The fact that she doesn't shy away, ripping off work from fellow soundtrack composers such as Craig Armstrong and John Williams really pisses me off. Then again ripping of the Rolling Stones and Sting is truly brazen and yes she did exactly that!

Two more videos with songs that I already mentioned and some I didn't.





There was probably also a part 2 but I can't find it.



Modified by huntress1013, Feb 23, 2021 10:05 AM
 
 
Feb 23, 2021 2:15 PM

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Champloo OSTs are more or less made up of samples too. Shit, guess it counts as stealing as well. Should make a thread about it sometime since the fans won't stop jerking off to that dead plagiarizer Nujabes guy.

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Feb 24, 2021 7:28 PM

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Shitaste said:
Champloo OSTs are more or less made up of samples too. Shit, guess it counts as stealing as well. Should make a thread about it sometime since the fans won't stop jerking off to that dead plagiarizer Nujabes guy.
Sampling and stealing are two completely different things dude lol what
 
Feb 24, 2021 8:24 PM

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Kurt_Irving said:
Like Corey Tailor once said in an interview "You don't sell out concerts, meet millions of fans and go platinum if your music sucks. Period".


Are you talking about the same Corey Taylor who said pop music is insulting and openly hates bands who have sold out concerts, meet millions of fans and gone platinum, some even more than him.
 
Feb 24, 2021 9:00 PM

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Like my boy Binky from Arthur once said in that one episode when Buster was pretending to be smart in school, "So what?!". Entertainment is 100% subjective. Again, so what?!
 
Feb 25, 2021 2:34 AM

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Ethereal-peace said:
Shitaste said:
Champloo OSTs are more or less made up of samples too. Shit, guess it counts as stealing as well. Should make a thread about it sometime since the fans won't stop jerking off to that dead plagiarizer Nujabes guy.
Sampling and stealing are two completely different things dude lol what


If it wasn't painfully obvious, that was a satirical comment. You'd only need one redditor making a thread about how Champloo soundtracks take samples from early blues and whatnot, but labelling it as "stealing" and people would take it on a face value(maybe someone had done that already idk). Or a youtube video doing the same thing. Both criteria are described in OP's original post as some sort of definitive evidence, though it's more of a call-out to all those self-proclaimed "music connoisseurs" than anything. The kind of group who firmly believe in "original music only or gtfo" scheme, where if an artist is sampling something, they better create a new music genre out of it or else they've blatantly stolen the work, there is no in-between. Which was why Champloo got away with it since people put it on the pedestral of "OG Lo-fi" music. And the ones who are in disbelieve would mention some artists who made that kind of music before Nujabes and others came to spotlight.

It's all about who did it first rather than who did it better. Innovation can be undervalued sometimes.
Have a nice one!~
Modified by Shitaste, Feb 25, 2021 2:42 AM

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Feb 26, 2021 7:03 PM
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Interesting thread with a lack evidence to back up the big claims. Which is usual with the "things that sound similar" claims. Almost any composer can be compared to another.
 
Feb 28, 2021 3:31 AM

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cdstmichael said:
Interesting thread with a lack evidence to back up the big claims. Which is usual with the "things that sound similar" claims. Almost any composer can be compared to another.



Seriously? Did you actually read the thread. I guess not or you would have seen there was ample and obvious evidence.
 
Feb 28, 2021 5:34 AM

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I don't see that kind of variations from a composer as a problem, but as a win for everyone.
ImO one of the best anime Ost out there is Kyoukaisenjou no Horizon 1 & 2 ost and it has plenty of tracks that "heavily remind" of popular tracks like Pirate of the Caribbean or even Star wars theme. So what, ti's still fully unique even if it takes inspiration from it.
 
 
Mar 6, 2021 6:34 PM

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Music sounding similar doesn't necessarily mean it was copied it means it could just have been inspired by or just happened to use one of the same common patterns used in music as there is a limit on what's possible and even less because of types of patterns people find appealing limit it more. Some artists actually accidentally recreate songs they heard but dont consciously remember. Only the alleged composer or producer would really know and only people that are well trained in music composition can give any meaningful input on if something might be copied because they would pick up things normal music listeners wouldn't. To me I see similarities but doesn't seem similar enough to not remove doubts.
 
Mar 6, 2021 11:32 PM

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Are some of y'all listening to the songs? People lose court cases over less than this amount of similarity. Heck, different composer, but I don't even know how some of the tracks in Gundam Thunderbolt passed-- as much as I like listening to the soundtrack.

To give an idea of how these cases might fair, let's look at the infamous Blurred Lines vs. Got to Get it Up case. So the claim was that the song Blurred Lines ripped off Got to Get it Up. Here's a comparison video:



Maybe you thought, "Ehhh it just sounds similar, not a rip off". Welp, court thought it sounded similar enough. 5 million points to Gryffindor dollars to Marvin Gaye estates taken from Robin Thicke + Pharrell Williams and co. And honestly, a lot of Yoko Kanno's tracks sound even more similar to the original songs than Blurred Lines does to Got to Get it Up.

Meanwhile, songs that do sound similar get called dissimilar. It really goes case by case. However, in this case... knowing that there are a bunch of songs Kanno has done that sound incredibly similar to others doesn't help Kanno's case at all. A one time offense is eh, but this isn't that. What she's doing isn't sampling either.

All this being said, if she received permission to use these songs then it's all good. Admittedly, I don't really think that's the case. There don't seem to be credits anywhere...
Should also note, pursuing claims overseas seems like a pain, so I'm guessing no one wants to deal with it or else they probably would have. Some of these bands are really small and probably don't have the money to do much which makes it kinda sad...
Modified by Swiggy, Mar 6, 2021 11:38 PM

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Mar 7, 2021 1:01 PM

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This comes up a few times every year. Yoko Kanno has not only credited inspirations, but actually hired many high-profile musicians who inspired her in order to perform and aid in her compositions. She recorded the OST for Zankyou no Terror at the same studio Sigur Ros uses, alongside some of their members.

Confirm this for yourself, it's not hard to find.
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Mar 8, 2021 1:03 AM

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Deserada said:
This comes up a few times every year. Yoko Kanno has not only credited inspirations, but actually hired many high-profile musicians who inspired her in order to perform and aid in her compositions. She recorded the OST for Zankyou no Terror at the same studio Sigur Ros uses, alongside some of their members.

Confirm this for yourself, it's not hard to find.
Okay.
I already dug before, but I've decided to do some additional digging. Before I get into the quick new dig, yes, there are artists who helped out with certain songs for example Mushroom Hunting is the result of working closely with the original band. Some things are noted/credited, but others not all (honestly, most don't seem to be credited at all). You shouldn't pick and choose who to credit or who to get permission from.

To note, there is this one post (https://www.reddit.com/r/cowboybebop/comments/2ef4em/inspirations_behind_cowboy_bebops_soundtrack/) that says something about "songs that were, without a doubt, inspiration", but they're basing that off of this website ( http://yokokanno.ojaru.jp/ ) which is also just folks finding comparisons and usually not Yokko Kanno herself giving credit for the inspirations.


Anyway, in my new dig, not only am I still not finding a lot of credits for some of the incredibly similar songs, but I've found artists who have shown that they didn't even know that their songs were used for "inspiration" at all. Let's look into that.

One of my favorite tracks, Want it All Back, is super similar to Zodiac Sign by Imperial Drag.

Want it All Back:


Zodiac Sign:


The band, Imperial Drag, apparently wasn't even aware that their song was used as "inspiration" until one of their friends let them know after the song already came out. The song/band is also not credited from everything I've looked into-- a few other songs have credits, not this one. Not even in interviews I've found (whether in English or Japanese).

In this case, the band, Imperial Drag, doesn't seem to mind. Still, even the drummer seems to feel Want it All Back sounds "EXACTLY like" their song, and the way they put "paid homage to" in quotes comes off as him not feeling like it's actually paying homage to their song (but they're flattered nonetheless).

Here's the post of the drummer of Imperial Drag recalling when a friend of theirs who liked anime brought the song to their attention years after they had disbanded: https://www.facebook.com/ImperialDrag/posts/3202577979841110

However, I won't say anything was stolen since the world of music law is complicated. Some things can pass and are perfectly legal without the original artist's permission (usually go through the label/publisher anyway) and others not.

All I'm saying is... it's still not looking good. She could have gotten rights to these songs in totally legal ways-- I don't know, but that kinda doesn't change that these were originally someone else's songs that she pretty much just modified and then hardly even credited them for inspiration if at all-- and apparently didn't even let some of them know on top of that. But that it seems like she's done this more than once still doesn't make it a better case.
Modified by Swiggy, Mar 8, 2021 1:12 AM

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Mar 10, 2021 5:36 PM

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@Swiggy
I get it, the only parts that are actually the same between these two songs is the 6-note riff (on lead guitar in the original, then a distorted harpsichord? and rhythm guitar in Yoko Kanno's version), and the timing of the vocals. The rest is quite different. The arrangement is pretty huge, she has a big band on top of a rock band. None of the chord changes/progressions are the same.

It's possible she heard it and copied the riff, or it's possible she just used music theory to come up with it independently. Depending on the scale and the mode you choose you can see how there's a finite number of pleasing combinations for any given progression. The only way to really get out of that space is to use some wack alternate scale or tuning that not much music has been written for.

If you compare the sheet music you're going to see it's like a single-digit percent overlap.

Here's another example you might not have heard:



They're in different modes. The percussion is similar and the vocal style is similar, but it's not enough to get upset over. The main reason Yoko Kanno gets beat up over this is that almost every track she produces is a different style, which she manages to nail, and her music is almost as popular as the original works in many cases. If you look harder at all music you'd find a ton of worse examples. Most musicians stick to one style, or at least don't go very far from it because of the amount of time and effort required to master different instruments and make connections with different (studio) musicians to perform those styles. Yoko Kanno's position as a soundtrack composer and her individual interest in composing just about everything is the only reason she has that access and does it.
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Mar 21, 2021 5:45 AM

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@Deserada
(Sorry. I had to be away.)
I understand what you mean, and to be clear I'm not against creators taking inspiration from others. I'm just more concerned about permission/credit.

However, the more I listen to a lot of her works compared to others, the harder time I have thinking that every single one of them is just a musical theory coincidence.
That being said, I am fairly certain that she is very purposefully imitating a lot of these songs and then building upon them to create something more. Other works seem to make this more obvious than others. Actually, the example you posted is a good way of showing this. At least to me, it sounds pretty clear that it's supposed to be deliberately similar, but she changed it enough to make it transformative.

In other words, many of these works would be considered pastiche at that point, which would explain why she has not gotten in any legal trouble (as far as we know). Pastiche, like parody, is often protected by law/fair use. Some cases (Blurred Lines), not so much.

As mentioned before, even if Kanno's music doesn't pass for fair use, not many would want to take a legal battle overseas when someone could easily claim parody/pastiche and be fine-- especially since Kanno tends to expand upon the original songs in a pretty transformative way.

It would be ideal if the artists she's making pastiches from were credited, but I'm double checking into that now and having some liners from non-translated albums sent just in case they took them out in English.

(What a journey this is turning into.)

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Mar 21, 2021 9:34 AM

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Ethereal-peace said:
Shitaste said:
Champloo OSTs are more or less made up of samples too. Shit, guess it counts as stealing as well. Should make a thread about it sometime since the fans won't stop jerking off to that dead plagiarizer Nujabes guy.
Sampling and stealing are two completely different things dude lol what

Actually if the debate was that simple it wouldn't spark argument in music schools.

Sampling is definitely stealing to an extent. Both stealing the music itself, but also stealing the work of instrumentists. Do I think anything with a sample should be burned down? No. Is the problem more complex than "lol totally not stealing"? ... not really. Snoop Dogg's only good album is 99% Funkadelic samples, and the amount of rap songs with not a single note of music written for them is through the roof. A friend of me is into hip-hop big time and the amount of times I told him "lol this is Y or X song" and we argued about wether or not it was an artistical choice or 100% lazy plagiarism and stinginess when it comes to paying instrumentists is quite high.
 
Mar 21, 2021 1:06 PM

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calling it plagiarism wouldn't really be right imo since she still composes it all etc
but it's not news to anyone who has followed her that she heavily, heavily "borrows" shit

with works like bebop i think a common agreement is that it lends to more of a western curation feel, even if accidentally

but yeah this is realllllly old news
 
Mar 23, 2021 11:16 PM

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Ghemotoc said:
Ethereal-peace said:
Sampling and stealing are two completely different things dude lol what

Actually if the debate was that simple it wouldn't spark argument in music schools.

Sampling is definitely stealing to an extent. Both stealing the music itself, but also stealing the work of instrumentists. Do I think anything with a sample should be burned down? No. Is the problem more complex than "lol totally not stealing"? ... not really. Snoop Dogg's only good album is 99% Funkadelic samples, and the amount of rap songs with not a single note of music written for them is through the roof. A friend of me is into hip-hop big time and the amount of times I told him "lol this is Y or X song" and we argued about wether or not it was an artistical choice or 100% lazy plagiarism and stinginess when it comes to paying instrumentists is quite high.
Well there’s some elitists who think if you don’t play the instrument then you’re stealing period, and others who look down on (mostly hip hop) as a genre and dismiss it due to sampling. Yes it’s “stealing” but all musicians steal, whether it’s a Chris progression or a melody etc so what’s the problem here? If you make it into something else (and pay depending on how it’s sampled) there should be no issues. You’re right about snoop but take say biggie who’s also sample heavy af and you can’t say he was carried by his beats
 
Mar 24, 2021 11:27 PM

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Ghemotoc said:
Ethereal-peace said:
Sampling and stealing are two completely different things dude lol what

Actually if the debate was that simple it wouldn't spark argument in music schools.

Sampling is definitely stealing to an extent. Both stealing the music itself, but also stealing the work of instrumentists. Do I think anything with a sample should be burned down? No. Is the problem more complex than "lol totally not stealing"? ... not really. Snoop Dogg's only good album is 99% Funkadelic samples, and the amount of rap songs with not a single note of music written for them is through the roof. A friend of me is into hip-hop big time and the amount of times I told him "lol this is Y or X song" and we argued about wether or not it was an artistical choice or 100% lazy plagiarism and stinginess when it comes to paying instrumentists is quite high.

It's not all that complicated. It's more a matter of if samples are acknowledged as samples and not attempted to be passed as original. It also depends how samples are used.
 
 
Mar 25, 2021 1:40 AM

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traed said:
Ghemotoc said:

Actually if the debate was that simple it wouldn't spark argument in music schools.

Sampling is definitely stealing to an extent. Both stealing the music itself, but also stealing the work of instrumentists. Do I think anything with a sample should be burned down? No. Is the problem more complex than "lol totally not stealing"? ... not really. Snoop Dogg's only good album is 99% Funkadelic samples, and the amount of rap songs with not a single note of music written for them is through the roof. A friend of me is into hip-hop big time and the amount of times I told him "lol this is Y or X song" and we argued about wether or not it was an artistical choice or 100% lazy plagiarism and stinginess when it comes to paying instrumentists is quite high.

It's not all that complicated. It's more a matter of if samples are acknowledged as samples and not attempted to be passed as original. It also depends how samples are used.

Is there any creativity in sampling Funky Drummer for the billionth time as it is? What's the creativity in sampling 99% of an existing song including part of the vocals and just rapping over it? (it actually happens lmao.)
Yes, there are creative and musical uses of samples.
There's also thousand lazy ass stealers who can't drum or bassline to save their lives.

And even if you really want Funky Drummer's drum part... what's preventing you from hiring a talented drummer and making it play the thing? Having him interpret it in his own way instead of being the same sample everybody heard a billion times? Actually bringing people on stage to play your damn thing instead of plugging your iphone in the sound system and clicking the play button?
Thousands of producers who refuse to pay musicians to make music lol.
 
Mar 25, 2021 2:33 AM

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Ghemotoc said:
traed said:

It's not all that complicated. It's more a matter of if samples are acknowledged as samples and not attempted to be passed as original. It also depends how samples are used.

Is there any creativity in sampling Funky Drummer for the billionth time as it is? What's the creativity in sampling 99% of an existing song including part of the vocals and just rapping over it? (it actually happens lmao.)
Yes, there are creative and musical uses of samples.
There's also thousand lazy ass stealers who can't drum or bassline to save their lives.

And even if you really want Funky Drummer's drum part... what's preventing you from hiring a talented drummer and making it play the thing? Having him interpret it in his own way instead of being the same sample everybody heard a billion times? Actually bringing people on stage to play your damn thing instead of plugging your iphone in the sound system and clicking the play button?
Thousands of producers who refuse to pay musicians to make music lol.

Sense of familiarity i guess? Also some genres are built on specific samples so it naturally becomes present a lot for some things. Like mashups can be fun and they don't really make sense without samples. It's not always creative yes but creative isn't always the aim. Whether it's a fair use or not gets tricky. It depends how well known the source is, how old, and how much was sampled unchanged and whether it was approved of by the artist if that's even possible .

Some cases I would agree that it would be more complete to have someone play but not all music is meant to be played live and some the samples are distorted intentionally.

I am more concerned over things lile record labels not paying musicians right, the way some digital media retailers don't pay musicians enough for their music, the monopoly control of ticket sales to concerts etc.
 
 
Mar 25, 2021 2:57 AM

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traed said:

I am more concerned over things lile record labels not paying musicians right, the way some digital media retailers don't pay musicians enough for their music, the monopoly control of ticket sales to concerts etc.

This is kinda interesting. The biggest band in France this last decade has been banned from major labels , TV and radio some time after their first album (They might have savaged a TV interview xD). They've released the following ones independently, inculding a kickstarter campaign that blew records. Still the biggest kickstarter budget for a music album in France, not endorsed by any major company, never heard on radio or TV.
They also release all their stuff on Youtube for free. :)

 
Mar 29, 2021 1:29 AM

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From someone who does music for a living
Modified by SolidPayne, Mar 29, 2021 1:40 AM
 
Mar 29, 2021 3:05 AM
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Hey look another person on the internet who read about something, on reddit of all places thinks they are an expert in the field!
 
Mar 29, 2021 5:06 AM

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Ghemotoc said:
Ethereal-peace said:
Sampling and stealing are two completely different things dude lol what

Actually if the debate was that simple it wouldn't spark argument in music schools.

Sampling is definitely stealing to an extent. Both stealing the music itself, but also stealing the work of instrumentists. Do I think anything with a sample should be burned down? No. Is the problem more complex than "lol totally not stealing"? ... not really. Snoop Dogg's only good album is 99% Funkadelic samples, and the amount of rap songs with not a single note of music written for them is through the roof. A friend of me is into hip-hop big time and the amount of times I told him "lol this is Y or X song" and we argued about wether or not it was an artistical choice or 100% lazy plagiarism and stinginess when it comes to paying instrumentists is quite high.


Sampling is only stealing if the artist of the sample that has been used has neither been asked whether they allow their music to be used and said artist has not given permission to use the music (usually also paying for the song sample that was used).

Nicki Minaj was slammed with a lawsuit by Tracy Chapman for using samples from "Baby Can I Hold You". They settled only in January and Minaj paid half a million to avoid a copyright infringement trial. Cardi B (who is problematic anyway for other reasons - drugging and robbing men....I mean really?) also has a couple of lawsuits going because she sampled without asking.
 
Apr 1, 2021 8:24 PM
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SolidPayne said:
From someone who does music for a living


He looked at her jazz songs on an album where no one accused her of copying and then said clearly she doesn't copy because it's just jazz, 12 bar blues. He can't apply that one jazz album to all her songs. No one accused her for that album.
When the accusations are against her POP and rock songs that deal with not only melody and rhythmn, but sound, timbre of the singer she hired to mimic the original, effect chains, instrumentation.

That's like saying oh no there's no covid problem in the world when you only look at stats for new zealand.
 
Apr 1, 2021 10:52 PM

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Swiggy said:
It would be ideal if the artists she's making pastiches from were credited, but I'm double checking into that now and having some liners from non-translated albums sent just in case they took them out in English.

I did get the album liner for OST 2 a while ago but didn't want to bump the thread with something no one really asked for specifically. I had purchased Blue for my brother some years ago and was going to check that too, but it seems like my brother's busy, so I didn't want to bother him by making him look for it.

I'm still on the Imperial Drag Song, Zodiac Sign, and Kanno's song, Want it all back, mostly because I know for sure that the band wasn't aware (not sure about their label). Because of that, I nabbed the info on No Disc (the second OST) which Want it all back appears on. Imperial Drag isn't credited specifically in the liners, nor the label they were with. Nor anyone who might have the copyright to Zodiac Sign now (if existent). All it says is "Words by TIM JENSEN/Music & Arranged by YOKO KANNO".

That being said, the album notes in general "All Music & Arranged by Yoko Kanno".

Anyway, make of all this info what you will.

Enjoy your anime! | Witch Cafe Wisteria
 
 
Apr 1, 2021 11:46 PM

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Who gives a fuck...?
 
Apr 2, 2021 1:54 AM

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Fullmetalgirl10 said:
SolidPayne said:
From someone who does music for a living


He looked at her jazz songs on an album where no one accused her of copying and then said clearly she doesn't copy because it's just jazz, 12 bar blues. He can't apply that one jazz album to all her songs. No one accused her for that album.
When the accusations are against her POP and rock songs that deal with not only melody and rhythmn, but sound, timbre of the singer she hired to mimic the original, effect chains, instrumentation.

That's like saying oh no there's no covid problem in the world when you only look at stats for new zealand.
He clearly said in the video that he looked into her most of her work, not just that one soundtrack and still came to the same conclusion. He was just talking about the songs from that soundtrack just to analyze how they work as jazz songs because he's a jazz pianist so that's his expertise
 
Apr 2, 2021 2:51 AM

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She has good taste in music
 
Apr 2, 2021 3:38 AM

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TsukuyomiREKT said:
Who gives a fuck...?


The artists whose music was used without their permission and hence did not earn any money from it and no not every single artist is a millionaire. Also, plagiarism is general is a no go. If you don't give a shit, that is totally fine but you should better stay away from any job that requires research and maybe academia in general.
 
Apr 3, 2021 5:57 AM
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She has copied some people. Yes.
 
Apr 5, 2021 5:34 PM

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SolidPayne said:
Fullmetalgirl10 said:


He looked at her jazz songs on an album where no one accused her of copying and then said clearly she doesn't copy because it's just jazz, 12 bar blues. He can't apply that one jazz album to all her songs. No one accused her for that album.
When the accusations are against her POP and rock songs that deal with not only melody and rhythmn, but sound, timbre of the singer she hired to mimic the original, effect chains, instrumentation.

That's like saying oh no there's no covid problem in the world when you only look at stats for new zealand.
He clearly said in the video that he looked into her most of her work, not just that one soundtrack and still came to the same conclusion. He was just talking about the songs from that soundtrack just to analyze how they work as jazz songs because he's a jazz pianist so that's his expertise

He didn't listen very well. I played music for a while, I disagree with a fair bit of plagiarism accusations... But there's no denying that for that Cowboy Bebop song for example, she just sat there with Matrix's OST and simply redid the same thing. yes, the riff's a bit different, yes, the construction changes a little bit. But it's not "influenced". It's copied.
 
Apr 5, 2021 8:29 PM

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That Matrix song is not a good example. Sure the rhythm is pretty similar but the instruments and overall feel are completely different. Kanno's song isn't techno rock for one so they're not even in the same genre
 
Aug 27, 2021 7:10 AM
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I love how some internate fanboy/girl claims to understand music to the extent that they don't know the difference between stolen and influenced.

Read up on how the japanese treat even a slight bit of plagiarism. if influences were not allowed, then half the music made by hollywood producers, like literally 1/3rd of anything ariana grande sings, kanye sings, daft punk makes. Theyre all plagiarisers!!! according to huntress. Nah , it' just you butthurt people don't see how someone can take inspiration from something, and be able to "arrange" in a unique way that fits a theme and is additive.

Arranging something is ten times harder than creating something from scratch. It's easy to do that, anyone can, but when you truly want something that works, you don't disregard those that already do.
 
 
Aug 27, 2021 7:50 PM

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madhav441 said:
I love how some internate fanboy/girl claims to understand music to the extent that they don't know the difference between stolen and influenced.

Read up on how the japanese treat even a slight bit of plagiarism. if influences were not allowed, then half the music made by hollywood producers, like literally 1/3rd of anything ariana grande sings, kanye sings, daft punk makes. Theyre all plagiarisers!!! according to huntress. Nah , it' just you butthurt people don't see how someone can take inspiration from something, and be able to "arrange" in a unique way that fits a theme and is additive.

Arranging something is ten times harder than creating something from scratch. It's easy to do that, anyone can, but when you truly want something that works, you don't disregard those that already do.


Good point. Also important to note that Kanno has preformed for the emperor of Japan. She may not be as famous as Hans Zimmer or John Williams but she's not underground in the slightest. You think someone as high profile as her could get away with it for so long and have no one even threaten charges at her? No way, even if nothing lead to court, somebody would be saying something about it. Not just people on the internet
 
Aug 27, 2021 8:48 PM

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i wouldn't say it's straight up plagiarism, more like taking an already established idea and re-arranging it for a different context. So yes she is taking other peoples work, but what comes out in the end should still be considered an original take.
 
 
Aug 29, 2021 2:05 PM

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Surprised this thread is still going on and on. At the end of the day, nobody cares what the OP thinks of Yoko Kanno, his reaction towards music and whoever he is should just let it go.

Again, nobody really cares regarding this thread so get over it. Talk about something more objective next time.
 
Oct 6, 2021 9:39 PM
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Kurt_Irving said:
Surprised this thread is still going on and on. At the end of the day, nobody cares what the OP thinks of Yoko Kanno, his reaction towards music and whoever he is should just let it go.

Again, nobody really cares regarding this thread so get over it. Talk about something more objective next time.
you seem mighty concerned to be continuing to follow this thread for almost 3 months

here's a YMS video on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ2she8pInY

it is a big deal because there are some examples here where Kanno has changed almost nothing. Pure laziness. We consider it influence when someone's used a song as a inspiration and altered it significantly and/or placed it in a different musical context. What you are defending is intellectual theft.

always remember this - just because you don't care about something doesn't mean it doesn't matter. No one is going to drop a copyright claim because some kid on the internet said that music is entertainment and we should all get over it.

These songs are people's livelihoods. It's entertainment for you and it's bread on the table for them.
 
Oct 7, 2021 9:44 AM

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Kurt_Irving said:
Like my boy Binky from Arthur once said in that one episode when Buster was pretending to be smart in school, "So what?!". Entertainment is 100% subjective. Again, so what?!

Kurt_Irving said:
Surprised this thread is still going on and on. At the end of the day, nobody cares what the OP thinks of Yoko Kanno, his reaction towards music and whoever he is should just let it go.

Again, nobody really cares regarding this thread so get over it. Talk about something more objective next time.

Dude are you good? Seems like you care quite a bit. Or maybe not anymore (it's been 2 months after all), anyway if so then ignore me. I'll just be replying to your old self, partly for those who do agree with you.

I never understood the whole "who cares it's subjective" argument for like 99% of the time. I guess most arguments don't get used properly anyway.

Plagiarism isn't something for you to jerk off to one side and go "haha it's just subjective bro why fuming". Plagiarism is an accusation, and should be discussed properly. Yeah I know "proper discussions on MAL"? What? That's ridiculous. No one cares right?

If you don't have anything better to say, and more importantly, if you truly don't care and think the whole thing is a big subjective mess, then the greatest advice ever given out to you in your whole life right now is to ignore it. Unless? Yes, unless you think this is a serious accusation that should be debunked (which it is). Then we're finally in for something.
. . .
 
Oct 7, 2021 12:13 PM

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I appreciate this thread for being eye-opening. I still like Yoko Kanno desu.
can dis sig fit