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| So I guess I was correct in that Kiki/Kaeru were connected, or I guess in this case- at least the same entity. As for John Walker being the chief, There is a stunning similarity to both of them appearance-wise but I'd like to think it's a misdirect as it seems too easy, if we've all figured it - though it could be a dramatic irony type of thing. As for Akihito causing the suicide of the murderers before they have the chance to kill anyone, I feel this is gonna have some kind of butterfly effect on everything else, almost the concept of "you can't change the past" . Maybe that is what Momoki meant by it being a trap, he knew Akihito would go back and try to prevent the death of Muku and Ayako. We have 4 episodes to patch everything up at this point, and I'm excited to see where things go from here. Overall a great episode. |
 โจโจ๐๐ฒ ๐ฅ๐ข๐๐ ๐ข๐ฌ๐ง’๐ญ ๐๐ฌ ๐ ๐ฅ๐๐ฆ๐จ๐ซ๐จ๐ฎ๐ฌ ๐๐ฌ ๐ฆ๐ฒ ๐ฐ๐๐ง๐ญ๐๐ ๐ฉ๐จ๐ฌ๐ญ๐๐ซ ๐ฆ๐๐ค๐๐ฌ ๐ข๐ญ ๐ฅ๐จ๐จ๐ค ๐ฅ๐ข๐ค๐. โจ |
| kind of disappointed at this point |
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| The Challenger vs Sakaido was awsome. This episode was also very confusing, wich world is the real one? Also only 4 episodes left, i really hope it will have a season 2 because this show is so great i need more of it. |
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| who is johnny walker is? my theory is that its the government or someone from the government... gray hair (old)... nice suit (he is a man with power or rich or someone from the government) with the hat (The hat represents authority and power)... and cane which I think symbolizes old and wise person or those with poor bone... but still just a theory... this is the best anime of the season... by the plot only... I cannot wait for the next episode... |
| I got a feeling that soon, the reality and fiction are gonna be indistinguishable |
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| [quote=MomoSinX message=59195557] Anaido's ten minutes may not be Sakaido's ten minutes. |
| I honestly have no idea what I'm supposed to type here. *imitates an old man* "Back in my day, we used to write our names fancy when they asked our signature!" |
| Wow, that was really fun to watch. I need to watch it a few more times.lol. |
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aLotQuestion_ said: kind of disappointed at this point Why? I found this fascinating and went in a way I was never expecting... |
| I did not expect to see Kaeru-chan. I wonder how much of what she said was true. About her dreams and memories, I mean. Did they reveal a part of the Mizuhanome's secret? I hope I don't spend hours coming up with theories about this whole thing. I still think John Walker is the guy who arrested Momoki. Not only is he kind of suspicious, he is also someone who has authority over every body, and figures of authority being the villains is a trope that gets used in a lot of good stories. Plus, this is the first time we saw John Walker without the censoring, and he has grey hair. And we only know two characters like that so far. I had wondered if Sakaido would keep his memory inside the second Mizuhanome, but I didn't expect him to be Narihisago and Sakaido at once, and transported to the past as well. |
| This show...it's Inception levels of batshit that still impresses with every twists and turns. From last episode, Sakaido entering into Kiki's Mizuhanome ship and experiencing the well within a well, the dreaming fabrication that looks real extending to his past. He's no longer Sakaido, but the real Narihisago. Going back in time to challenge the Challenger (the man eventually with a drill hole on his head) to set things right and stop the future from happening. Eventually finding the real life Kiki Asukai/Kaeru in the Challenger's basement dojo, her dream within the ID:Well won't stop penetrating his mind that's playing mindgames with his perception. What is this world that both Narihisago and Kiki/Kaeru are facing, and what do the others have in common other than meeting each other in dreams? The methodology of serial killer John Walker is killing her dreams, each and everytime, but confronting the Challenger, it's not a dream, but reality, and it's reality saved by Narihisago himself. Face-lifter Honoda...to imagine that he's one of the Challenger's hickeys, it's still a surprise. The more "bad" dreams that Narihisago's wife noticed about him, the more he's fighting for his life, from the inside out. What an episode. To understand that every episode to see a killed Kaeru, now finally understanding her circumstances and wanting to be killed for the people that is coming after her? What a horrific life, and no wonder if anyone tries to invade her identity, the dreams/ID:Wells taking over with the Mizuhanome to twist memories. It's also why Director Momoki knew that the whole thing was a trap. Thunderhead00 said: Same here, not so clear then, but definitely now.The ending now kinda makes sense. I'll see you on the other side. |
KANLen09Feb 24, 2020 3:35 AM
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| holyy this anime is masterpiece !! i love the story and mystery from this show !!! |
| So seems that Kaeru is the ID persona of Kiki Asukai. Kiki is a real person, who has the Mizuhanome -or whatever it is called- created with the help of her "mind broadcasting" abilities. |
| Okay, I've no idea what's happening but it was a chilling experience, this episode! Kaeru-chan going through all forms of murder is horrifying too, jeez. Narihisago, crack this too! Finally, some more solid hint of the old man. Definitely gave off the Chief vibe with the hair tied and whatnot, I wonder how we'll get to that in time. Got to say, Narihisago v the Challenger there just goes to show how lost he has become with the loss of his two precious family members. We'd an idea of how the daughter met her demise but his wife committing suicide in that fashion just makes me feel worse for him. Cool little final there with Narihisago with his renewed confidence 'bout to go round two now! |
#Anime4Life be my Life Motto! #PrayForKyoAni  |
| So that other Mizuhanome System was more like a prison for Kiki, where she gets killed over and over again in various gruesome ways............. Wtf, 2 shots in each legs and that Challenger manages to do a arm lock on Sakaido, another shot on the abdomen and he still manages to give Sakaido a good amount of whooping, man does that Challenger have some supper human strength that he manages to make Sakaido cried Uncle till he finally got shot in the head.....? |
| Easily best episode by far and i hope it will just keep getting better. |
| Watashi wa a victim of cyberbullying. Everyday someone online calls me a "weeb" desu. Watashi won't stand for this. 26 percent of bullying victims are chosen due to their race or religion desu. I may look like a basic white boy, but deep down I am Nihongo desu. Watashi religion is anime. Anata wa bullying me because of my race and religion desu ka? Disgusting desu. Anata should be ashamed of yourself, racist pig. A baka gaijin like anata is probably jealous of my race and culture, cause Nippon is more sugoi than your shitty country desu. Watashi pity anata. You'll never be Nihongo like watashi. Educate yourself on nani a "weeb" is. |
| A really deep episode, some parts were quite confusing at some point but it only contributes to make the show more & more interesting ! I have a feeling the last conclusion, the last word, won't be the one expected. |
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| Here's my theory: Kiki Asukai is a living person who is playing the part of 'Kaeru' in the Id Well, just like Narihisago plays the part of Sakaido, and therefore actually experiencing being murdered. The chief of the Id Well team is John Walker (I mean, he looked exactly like the John Walker in Kiki's memory). I think John Walker is another 'role' within the mizunohanome which seeks out potential Serial Killers and basically lures them to kill so that they can ultimately be caught. No one else on the team would know this cause it's unethical af, but I assume the scientist who made the Mizunohanome DID know, disagreed and threatened to expose it all, but the Chief killed him to keep him quiet. I'm not sure how the Chief could lay all the blame on Momoki... maybe next ep will give some hints about that. So, what do you guys think of my theory? |
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| hands down fav episode so far |
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kater_tot said: Here's my theory: Kiki Asukai is a living person who is playing the part of 'Kaeru' in the Id Well, just like Narihisago plays the part of Sakaido, and therefore actually experiencing being murdered. The chief of the Id Well team is John Walker (I mean, he looked exactly like the John Walker in Kiki's memory). I think John Walker is another 'role' within the mizunohanome which seeks out potential Serial Killers and basically lures them to kill so that they can ultimately be caught. No one else on the team would know this cause it's unethical af, but I assume the scientist who made the Mizunohanome DID know, disagreed and threatened to expose it all, but the Chief killed him to keep him quiet. I'm not sure how the Chief could lay all the blame on Momoki... maybe next ep will give some hints about that. So, what do you guys think of my theory? That's basically what I was thinking but couldn't organize properly, thanks. |
| This was a very good episode. It was good to see the interactions between Narihisago and his family, also the reveals were very good and I’m curious now. |
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| What if it turned out Akihito Narihisago is subconsciously John walker (at least the last scene where the face guy is hanged indicate he has killer vibe more than u can think of) or he may be consciously and it may be a rewriting past scenario.If what I speculate is true, Koharu Hondomachi may turn out to be the real protagonist. Either way I think John walker's identity is 30% Akihito Narihisago (for reason above and it would be the most twisted thing to do) 30% Koharu Hondomachi (she is manipulative and gives a killer vibe like narihisago without having any known/disclosed traumatic incident uptill now) 27% Mizuhanome inventor (he can do a mind transfer and died after creating mizuhanome kind of like Sao first arc) 10% Kokuryu Matsuoka (because he is the most unsuspected guy out of all and white hair) 3% Takuhiko Hayaseura (if he turned out to be John walker then he will be a minor villan) If I was the anime writer I would go for the last 2 option together (because the first 2 options is a really **** move, and 3rd option is slightly boring one) |
AdampkFeb 24, 2020 3:53 PM
  Click for a anime mashup! Still not gone bandwagon u, keep crying. Here u are welcome to CRINGE at my EXISTENCE |
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| Best episode yet. If the show keeps up with this level of quality it could very well be AOTS. |
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| Every week this show fails to disappoint. I'm not even going to try to theorize at this point. We're in the well way too deep. |
| Fuck man each week this show does some wild shit with some issues here and there but this episode was like fuck your brain try and make sense of all of this episode had me doubting most of everything and it's far to hard to come to a solid conclusion trying to wrap my head around it key thing is John walker is a piece of shit and the center of all of this unknown who is still Kiki/Kaeru are connected if that is the bases of how the ID Wells were made is a possibility and most likely the case of why there's always a Kaeru in each well. Not even sure if the dream world is actually just a dream or the wells are just capable of going so deep which is crazy since this all started from going in Momoki's well also at first i thought this would be a nightmare to watch since his family was normally going to get killed turns out that was the nicest part of this episode with him actually getting to see them alive again meanwhile everything else was totally brutal |
katsu044Feb 24, 2020 7:38 PM
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| So the thing I get from this is that Jhon Walker "helps" the society making people with serial killer problems go into Kiki's dream to kill the people (and her) in the dream so they don't have to kill anyone irl. BUT some of them get bored of killing her in dreams and then go and kill some people irl. AND when in the first world they find one of the murders particles thing, Narihisago always goes to a Kiki's dream where she is already killed by the murderer. But I still don't get why there's more people in those dream were Kiki (Kaeru back then) was already killed, like the first case, why the people that were already killed and the alive victims appeared in that dream, do the murderers own a dream after they kill Kiki and can do with it whatever they want? How does John find people that want to kill other people? |
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| Calling dibs on John Walker being the true inventor of Mizuhanome. I'm copyrighting this hypothesis. |
| I think that "John Walker" was a previous system that provided "relief" to people with a potential to become serial killers. This is similar idea to providing realistic sex dolls to rapists/sex offenders/pedos. Obviously, dolls won't work for everyone because some of them have deeper issues than sexual frustration, for example: the need to see people in pain, suffering, etc. The same thing applies to our "John Walker" system - it wasn't enough for everyone and probably it started creating serial killers instead preventing them - after all, the appetite grows with eating. So "John Walker" essentially turned some people with potential to become serial killers into true serial killers when previously there was no 100% certainty that they will become one. The project failed and was replaced by Mizunohanome, probably using the same/similar technology (which explains why only serial killers can enter it) to clean up the mess. Kiki Asukai might be the first person to use the first version of Mizunohanome (which had the ability to project dreams/thoughts into other people) - it's possible that she gained her abilities by using the machine - if they are even real - after all, we currently know the truth from her ID well which is in another ID well... Momoki was probably close to revealing the truth so the government framed him. He keeps quiet, despite knowing the truth, so the project doesn't get shut down (since this technology created many serial killers) and they need it to clean up the mess. In short, the government created a mess and then covered it up with "special taskforce for hunting serial killers". The fact that Mizunohanome inventor is missing/dead (probably he killed himself after the project failed - it's a common trope for scientists to kill themselves after their invention, created with good intentions, turns evil, etc.) and everything is kept secret even from investigators with high rank, support this theory. |
| Well there is some explanation now but there is still a lot of questions to be answered and I am in for the ride. I am curious if Kiki is still alive in the end. I kinda hope this isn't some inception nonsense where Sakaido will wake up in the end and his family is actually alive. I felt like that was kind of hinted at during this episode. Ive been really enjoying this anime though. |
| Listen to my podcast https://anchor.fm/waifusandweeaboos Follow my twitch. https://www.twitch.tv/sorasensei1 Spring 2024 Waifus on Profile "You can have multiple Waifus" -me |
dc22 said: kater_tot said: Here's my theory: Kiki Asukai is a living person who is playing the part of 'Kaeru' in the Id Well, just like Narihisago plays the part of Sakaido, and therefore actually experiencing being murdered. The chief of the Id Well team is John Walker (I mean, he looked exactly like the John Walker in Kiki's memory). I think John Walker is another 'role' within the mizunohanome which seeks out potential Serial Killers and basically lures them to kill so that they can ultimately be caught. No one else on the team would know this cause it's unethical af, but I assume the scientist who made the Mizunohanome DID know, disagreed and threatened to expose it all, but the Chief killed him to keep him quiet. I'm not sure how the Chief could lay all the blame on Momoki... maybe next ep will give some hints about that. So, what do you guys think of my theory? That's basically what I was thinking but couldn't organize properly, thanks. Haha, it took me a few attempts at writing it for me to organise the explanation enough to make sense! |
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| Wow, this is becoming even more Sci-Fi than expected but honestly, that's not a problem since I'm finding this new info about Kaeru/Kiki and the "dream world" super fascinating. Fantastic episode once again. I particularly liked the contrast between the heartfelt scenes of Narihisago with his family and the more gruesome ones regarding Kiki's fucked up situation. I think it was very well handled. There were also lots of details/hints regarding John Walker, the Mizunohanome and Kaeru's existence and though the dialogues got a bit heavy for moments, most of them were highly captivating. Not to mention also that seeing the good amount of interesting theories this thread has really helps to gain a better understanding of every possible outcome. Really glad to see the community being this active in that regard. Now, I guess we will have Hondoumachi's POV next episode since technically both she and Narihisago are in the same "reality" (dream world). Really wonder what she might be doing... Man, this series is being such a ride! |
| I would say this is my favorite episode so far. liked the atmosphere with how he knows that if he wakes up all of his family will be dead once again. Narhisago showing off his ability to make people commit suicide once again. can't wait to find out the truth of the id well! hope this gets a good conclusion before it ends this season. |
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| Great episode .. wondering which world is real or "real one so far" |
Leyari said: We finally got to see a glimpse of John Walker's face and he looks an awful lot like the chief of their police-organization-thing. You can even see he has his hair tied. That is exactly what I was thinking. It makes no sense to me that Momoki was john walker. But it also might be just the anime playing with us |
PrinceLake said: I’m a little confused about ep9 though. Why didn’t aniado let sekaido out in ten minutes and why can he see her dreams. I’m a little confused if someone could give a small explanation I thought about this too and the answer in my head would be that that world might have sped up time like a dream or that Anaido was interrupted by something or someone. Overall this was such a top tier episode, absolutely amazing. |
| best episode yet. very confusing though, but that may just be me. |
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| Goosebumps are literally all over my fucking body right now, this is the Inception of anime, so good |
| Based Certified. I love anime armpits. |
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