| Just going to be upfront I trust this as much as I trust the popularity contest.. I don't. Watching other "algorithms" has taught me not to trust them any more than popularity rating averages. Unless you can somehow guarantee me that legitimate users were not and will not in the future be caught up in that; and I honestly don't feel you can. |
dewwm said: Getting pretty tired of HeroHei. Claims he isn't smearing MAL yet he proceeds to change volunteers to unpaid workers and then calls them shady. Yeah, totally not smearing. He's safe on his youtube channel and twitter where everyone supports him. He's basically giving MAL almost no defense. Wonder what his next video will be. I know it's unlikely that he'll have any effect on the site but man that guy is absurd. I've seen more accurate and honest news reporting from Anime Maru. |
ShymanderFeb 15, 2020 6:16 PM
Shymander said: dewwm said: Getting pretty tired of HeroHei. Claims he isn't smearing MAL yet he proceeds to change volunteers to unpaid workers and then calls them shady. Yeah, totally not smearing. He's safe on his youtube channel and twitter where everyone supports him. He's basically giving MAL almost no defense. Wonder what his next video will be. I know it's unlikely that he'll have any effect on the site but man that guy is absurd. I've seen more accurate and honest news reporting from Anime Maru. Yeah, his videos always seemed incredibly biased. I saw his recent video and his claims are still just speculations. All he does is give his own point on someone or something and gives them no chance of any rebuttal. I don't know why he's pointing out that volunteers will have backbreaking work when volunteers are probably people who care about the website and want to help. |
SkullKn1ghtFeb 15, 2020 6:38 PM
Xeno_Wrath33x said: Lmao actually Gintama has a better score now, and it deserves it 100%Finally, all of this Gaytama shit should start drifting towards the bottom. So tired of seeing that eyesore clutter the top lists. |
dewwm said: Yeah, his videos always seemed incredibly biased. I saw his recent video and his claims are still just speculations. All he does is give his own point on someone or something and gives them no chance of any rebuttal. I don't know why he's pointing out that volunteers will have backbreaking work when volunteers are probably people who care about the website and want to help. Well, he hasn't spoken to any of us about it (y'know, proper journalistic practice) since that would immediately dispel what he's going for. He can do his thing, we're just going to keep doing ours. |
Immahnoob said: It would be nice to have that on MAL. It'll be very easy to gauge if "Reviewers" are taking into consideration what genres they're reviewing and aren't the usual "it's ecchi, it's trash" types. ^ this. harem and comedy shows really suffer from it. series like Galaxy Angel are way too low. |
| Final Fantasy VII is a shitty game. |
| A hell of a excellent job taking MAL back to its true roots! As speculated, a lot of people still takes votes seriously (I'm not afraid to be one of them), but that a pretty good measure for the average layman to choose, plus outside opinions (which I'd think that it will not help much because of opinionated bias). Regardless, making MAL better again should ease everyone's troubles for the better :) |
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Xeno_Wrath33x said: Finally, all of this Gaytama shit should start drifting towards the bottom. So tired of seeing that eyesore clutter the top lists. Lol you didn't event read the first post xD  |
 |
JustAnAnimeList said: I didn't care much about all the brigading stuff, but this is a good update nonetheless. The best thing in all of this is that Chihayafuru S3 finally got its score fixed, so all's right with the world. Syrup- said: Decent update to the rating system. Far from perfect though. Would be good if MAL figured out how to deal with people who excessively rate everything they run into as a 10/9/8 (Good, Meh, Bad). I feel you, but that's never going to change. If MAL ever enforces a rule forcing people to use the entire rating scale it will cause a shitstorm of unprecedented proportions. To those people, if you're not rating every anime you watch an 8 or above then you're simply not enjoying anime or you're watching something bad. Just look at Themousen's reply to you, it's a prime example of that. Is there something wrong with my reply ? If you have something to say, just quote my message |
| I get Nux was doing it as a joke but, but that does not make it alright. |
Matt8096 said: I'm not expecting anybody to read my post or comments like it's really going to make a difference kind of up-to-date on the anime and the memes I think my opinion I still have s*** taste and so do the rest of us. I don't think anyone will have problems with you if you jsut use MAL like anyone else would. |
JustAnAnimeList said: Themousen said: Is there something wrong with my reply ? If you have something to say, just quote my message Just read my reply to Syrup and you'll understand why I mentioned your reply. I guess I (mis?)interpreted their message as condescendant back then I may have mistaken them for one of those people who denigrate people who had a high mean score (on the other hand, I too find people with a too high mean score (like 8.5+ with a bunch of anime watched) irrelevant) My bad |
| I wonder what this will do for new anime going forth when they have wow factors episodes. Like demon slayers episode 19, or vinland sagas last episode, both of which made a hefty dent in their overall scores. will an algorithm accidentally detect that as brigading? |
| Honestly I never thought you guy really minded the crazy changes (e.g. Pingu), but you have proven me wrong. Thank you for finding and stopping this MAL. This encourages me to continue using this site opposed to many others. Can't wait to see the final results. |
My Candies 2023:    |
| LoL is this a joke >< Why do people post to these without reading? |
| {\_/} (•~•) {\_/} ( •-•) {\_/} ( – _ -) |
Dogemy said: I wonder what this will do for new anime going forth when they have wow factors episodes. Like demon slayers episode 19, or vinland sagas last episode, both of which made a hefty dent in their overall scores. will an algorithm accidentally detect that as brigading? This is an interesting point, and a good question. Doubt a mod/admin will answer, and the OP states that watching and voting like anyone else keeps anti-brigade measures from discounting your vote so then effectively nothing has changed other than altering the scores based on prior data. Would be nice to know what actually was done for reasons like this though. Frankly I have doubt it'll do much of anything to currently airing things when they get the late season bump (nor for less obvious brigading/boosting either). Or maybe late season bumps will be considered brigading going forward? Who knows. |
| Nico nico ni~eed a siggy like the all the cool kids Really wish we had a rep system so I could farm it and spam rep+ |
JustAnAnimeList said: I didn't care much about all the brigading stuff, but this is a good update nonetheless. The best thing in all of this is that Chihayafuru S3 finally got its score fixed, so all's right with the world. Syrup- said: Decent update to the rating system. Far from perfect though. Would be good if MAL figured out how to deal with people who excessively rate everything they run into as a 10/9/8 (Good, Meh, Bad). I feel you, but that's never going to change. If MAL ever enforces a rule forcing people to use the entire rating scale it will cause a shitstorm of unprecedented proportions. To those people, if you're not rating every anime you watch an 8 or above then you're simply not enjoying anime or you're watching something bad. Just look at Themousen's reply to you, it's a prime example of that. I think the better reason for MAL to not make a ruling like that is because no one should be allowed to decide what each score means for the individual. Dogemy said: I wonder what this will do for new anime going forth when they have wow factors episodes. Like demon slayers episode 19, or vinland sagas last episode, both of which made a hefty dent in their overall scores. will an algorithm accidentally detect that as brigading? My guess is that these would pass since they would be a bunch of existing users changing their score with little or no new accounts created. Brigading is almost always going to come alongside new accounts. |
lunasmeow said: You don't implement changes that you KNOW are incomplete, unless something forces you. This is a bad take. They said it was not complete, or by their own words, "done", simply because it will never be. There will be new variables that will come up no matter how much the developers prepared for countless scenarios. And sometimes, you just have to ship out a product to see how it performs in production. Tests in a controlled environment will never be enough especially in software. Edit: clarified a point |
lunasmeow said: Were they working on this review change for the last six months? Probably. You don't suddenly get this kind of thing working in a single day without prior prep, so I believe that. Did they implement it RIGHT NOW because of this situation? Yes, yes they did, and no amount of claiming otherwise will change that lie. They've said both of these things - both saying about 6 months ago that they were working on it, and saying more recently that they were increasing its priority and thus bringing the date forward in response to the recent situations. They're just posts you may not have seen - see Kineta's responses at the end of https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=245618&show=4750 There's no attempts to claim otherwise. Oh, and regarding you having 2 post count rather than 1 - it isn't a problem; the previous one is here. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
Diyeeshe said: Great, glad pingu and reviewers are down to where they belong. Funny how FMAB stayed at number one despite everyone crying about it. It didn't though, at least for a little bit, Reviewers past it and was 9.28 for a time |
  We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think? ------------------------------------ Itachi Uchiha |
| I loved Pingu with such a high score just for the joke but yeah, I still agree with this, as it ended being funny so fast. The joke was dead many years ago but it's good to see the score how it should be. |
 |
Dogemy said: I wonder what this will do for new anime going forth when they have wow factors episodes. Like demon slayers episode 19, or vinland sagas last episode, both of which made a hefty dent in their overall scores. will an algorithm accidentally detect that as brigading? That is an excellent question. However, I do not think so because the users that vote in that last episode are using their accounts on a regular basis, so the algorithm must mark the score as valid. |
PipeFeb 17, 2020 7:11 AM
liamhabib said: Diyeeshe said: Great, glad pingu and reviewers are down to where they belong. Funny how FMAB stayed at number one despite everyone crying about it. It didn't though, at least for a little bit, Reviewers past it and was 9.28 for a time No , it did not got to#1. You are probably refering to the fake screenshot which was circulation with his fans. It got uptil #2 , and started dropping. |
liamhabib said: Diyeeshe said: Great, glad pingu and reviewers are down to where they belong. Funny how FMAB stayed at number one despite everyone crying about it. It didn't though, at least for a little bit, Reviewers past it and was 9.28 for a time When Lelouch is lying, at least he has some elements to back up his claims. The maximal score was 9.20 and below FMAB (at 9.22 at the time). It never reached the top spot. @Dogemy This seems quite hard to implement an algorithm that can take the residue modulo hype, and I wonder why it would be desirable to do so. Most of shows benefit from hype, but to quantify exactly how much this counts into the final score seems very difficult, as it is just one of the components of the subjective appreciation of a piece of art (or rather craft here). Furthermore, popular successes also attract salty individuals who will downvote series for the sake of contradiction and proof of self-independence. Although they are not as many as the previous group, an algorithm should also deal with them, right? In a word, I do not really think that there is a good way to make scores more "objective" since personal ratings differ a lot. Therefore, the votes should be taken equally into account unless one could find a good theory to explain what it an acceptable vote and what is not. Edit: @DomineLkira Sorry for the double refutation, I was writing my message at the same time so that yours did not appear. |
lunasmeow said: ...What kills me about the situation is the "honest" dishonesty of it. Were they working on this review change for the last six months? Probably. You don't suddenly get this kind of thing working in a single day without prior prep, so I believe that. Did they implement it RIGHT NOW because of this situation? Yes, yes they did, and no amount of claiming otherwise will change that lie. How do we know? They've been working on it for at least six months, and the "fix" is still not done yet. You don't implement changes that you KNOW are incomplete, unless something forces you. So yes, while the change may have been PLANNED before this event, they did, indeed, do it in response to Ichizoku Reviewers, and this laughable attempt to claim otherwise to save face just makes them look immature. As an adult it's far easier to just say, "We get that it was for the meme," (which, to be fair they DID actually say, so there's SOME maturity in there, congratulations, "but sadly in order to protect the integrity of our review site we had to implement this fix earlier than planned. As such, there will be further changes later." Instead, trying to act like Ichizoku Reviews had nothing to do with it? While rather BLATANTLY showing that it did in their own post? Last week, a YouTube account posted a video instructing 1M+ subscribers to go to MyAnimeList, register an account if necessary, and vote Ishuzoku Reviewers a 10. This was followed by a second YouTube account, also with 1M+ subscribers. When an individual leads an organized voting raid on a website, instructing his followers to vote yes/no/10/1/5/green—and 15,000+ votes of that specific value come in less than 12 hours, the entry's score has been compromised due to vote brigading. That just inserts them into the whole situation, leaving them open for (as "Lord Nuxinator" would call it) a return flex. For even more memes. Just be HONEST people. Lying, even if you are only doing it via technicality, especially for stupid childish reasons like this one, doesn't help anything in these situations. Sheesh. I mean, I've been a member since 2013 and I've never posted until now. I've been lurking forever... and this is that ridiculous. Hell, you could have even just left the count as it was for a few days just for the lols - everyone knew where they were coming from and it wouldn't have hurt the site, and hell, you could have posted saying, "Lol, nice flex on Funimation Nux, we gave you a few days, but seriously, we need to fix this now, sorry. Good laugh though." And that would have been the end of it. Now? This knee-jerk reaction to protect funimation's rep? Just makes you look bad. Because MAL's rep wasn't being hurt. Basically, there was no face to lose, until they lied, which causes them to lose face. It's ridiculous. ...and apparently edits to a post are considered new posts, because my post count went up for editing this one. It should only show 1 post, not more. Yet another thing that needs fixing. This post is one of the worst attempt at ridiculing MAL I've seen and only prove that you guys should just retire at this point. You lost the war, that's it. It's done. Move to something else now. |
| @Meusnier , there is no need to apologize lol. Just do your thing. |
JJAB91 said: I like how not only are you now manipulating votes to combat vote manipulation but are now deleting critical comments and threatening to ban users who dare disagree. You know MAL isn't the only anime list site right? Not only have you guys screwed up but being shutdown for months due to your own security flaws but now you are actively pushing users away from the site. Genius move really. Remember users can always go to Anilist. That sounds like more of a negative for the users that end up there :p |
| I was away for the weekend and didn't read every post since I left. If you have a question that hasn't been answered, feel free to mention me. Dogemy said: No. The system does not detect brigading. Only duplicate/rating troll accounts which are newly made. This is why the scores were all recalculated.I wonder what this will do for new anime going forth when they have wow factors episodes. Like demon slayers episode 19, or vinland sagas last episode, both of which made a hefty dent in their overall scores. will an algorithm accidentally detect that as brigading? From my post: Kineta said: Entries will still be vulnerable to YouTube voting raids due to the participation of legitimate user accounts. If new entries receive organized voting brigades, we will apply the second system to these entries (to readjust their scores) and will inform the community that we have done so. Please let Ishuzoku Reviewers be the last of it. Edit: In case it's not clear, we don't want to apply the second system and will only do so in cases where we're forced to. Legitimate users should be allowed to score however they want. However, getting a tiny bit of internet fame shouldn't allow you to deliberately manipulate the score either. |
KinetaFeb 17, 2020 9:54 AM
| @Kineta Still same question as last time. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1824703&show=550#msg59137123 |
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
Sure, just wanted to explain that I did not try to rewrite the same message after yours. |
NeoAnkara said: The days of reporting individual user accounts are over, I think. Since the accounts remain while their scores do not count, it is not possible for regular users to tell what is already handled by the system, and @Luna going through these accounts seems pointless. We were considering a thread where we could be asked to check an entry rather than user accounts (to be sure new suspicious activity is caught), but haven't quite envisioned how it would work yet.Well I found several account that behaving the same across several specific series which include series that I mentioned whilst having rather "normal" score around other series. What should I do then with this information? |
Kineta said: I did propose a score freeze before when situation like this happen. Right when Nogi Wakaba alongside many other score blown up out of proportion. But right now it feel too late to stop the crusading for those series because of the bot. And now popularity play bigger proportion for LN score than ever.NeoAnkara said: The days of reporting individual user accounts are over, I think. Since the accounts remain while their scores do not count, it is not possible for regular users to tell what is already handled by the system, and @Luna going through these accounts seems pointless. We were considering a thread where we could be asked to check an entry rather than user accounts (to be sure new suspicious activity is caught), but haven't quite envisioned how it would work yet.Well I found several account that behaving the same across several specific series which include series that I mentioned whilst having rather "normal" score around other series. What should I do then with this information? Still if I can say something since you already know the series that are affected by that it can still be traced until at least August last year when the bot start being active. Just little bit of my wish and insight. |
| Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
NeoAnkara said: We cannot "freeze" scores and we cannot remove 1/10s from legitimate users trying to score against bots. This would be the mind-reading everyone is accusing us of. The only time we will start discounting scores from "legitimate user accounts" is when there is a clear instance of mass vote manipulation. Mass is like on the order of thousands and tens of thousands (depending on the original entry size).I did propose a score freeze before when situation like this happen. Right when Nogi Wakaba alongside many other score blown up out of proportion. But right now it feel too late to stop the crusading for those series because of the bot. And now popularity play bigger proportion for LN score than ever. Still if I can say something since you already know the series that are affected by that it can still be traced until at least August last year when the bot start being active. Just little bit of my wish and insight. I received the Nogi Wakaba data from the tech team today and will go through it this evening or tomorrow evening to be sure some rating trolls didn't slip through. |
Kineta said: Well I say it back in August when the Illegitimate Account thread is start getting closed as it is the earliest stage of manga bot. This is what I mean.NeoAnkara said: We cannot "freeze" scores and we cannot remove 1/10s from legitimate users trying to score against bots. This would be the mind-reading everyone is accusing us of. The only time we will start discounting scores from "legitimate user accounts" is when there is a clear instance of mass vote manipulation. Mass is like on the order of thousands and tens of thousands (depending on the original entry size).I did propose a score freeze before when situation like this happen. Right when Nogi Wakaba alongside many other score blown up out of proportion. But right now it feel too late to stop the crusading for those series because of the bot. And now popularity play bigger proportion for LN score than ever. Still if I can say something since you already know the series that are affected by that it can still be traced until at least August last year when the bot start being active. Just little bit of my wish and insight. I received the Nogi Wakaba data from the tech team today and will go through it this evening or tomorrow evening to be sure some rating trolls didn't slip through. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1799436 Still I already know it will be hard to be implemented but never hurt to ask isn't it? |
| Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
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