Breadwinnerr said: Anime is whatever the community deems it to be. No, it's not It is literally: 1. A work of animation 2. Produced and created primarily in Japan This is not difficult to grasp It's not about how it looks, it's not about what influenced it, TTG and Ping Pong and Shitcom are all still anime and ATLA and RWBY are not |
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Breadwinnerr said: I mean, fundamentally, yeah, a word means whatever meaning(s) is/are common enough that people can understand what other people are saying.Breadwinnerr said: Even after the conversations, the only real conclusion I’ve been able to reach without doubting myself is: Anime is whatever the community deems it to be. Maybe my perception of that will change over time. Also no one said anything about destroying the definition of anime😂I know I’m just clutching at straws here, I was just caught in a cognitive dissonance of somekind - hitting my head against the wall, trying to come up with a *Clear-Cut* definition of what anime is - a definition that is completely free of any loopholes...Do I really care if Avatar is not considered an anime - No, not really. Do I think what defines an anime as an anime is somewhat vague given the large plethora of anime - Yeah, yeah I do. Just trying to see what others think, Avatar was just an example I could’ve wrote Ben 10😂 |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Breadwinnerr said: I find quite a bit of loopholes in this definition, and I know Im not the only one who thinks so. And not a single one you presented validates calling RWBY or ATLA an anime by this definition |
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| i see people haven't stopped shitposting here lol |
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EcchiGodMamster said: i see people haven't stopped shitposting here lol This entire board is just kms honestly |
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Breadwinnerr said: It's not so much "loopholes" as there's simply more than one definition in common use.Manaban said: I find quite a bit of loopholes in this definition, and I know Im not the only one who thinks so.No, it's not It is literally: 1. A work of animation 2. Produced and created primarily in Japan If anime meant only the definition Manaban gave, then it wouldn't be used to tag anything like the hundreds upon hundreds of games on Steam that are neither connected to a Japanese animation series nor made by anyone in Japan. So clearly there's at least one other definition, and this second one is quite clearly based on art style. I prefer using this latter definition since it is nationality-independent but is a characteristic of the work itself. I can understand some people preferring the nationality-based definition because it's just more convenient for drawing lines, though -- particularly for stuff like database exclusion/inclusion questions. |
GlennMagusHarveyNov 14, 2019 12:38 PM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: 1. It's still 2019 2. Avatar is kinda anime. Because the art style kinda fits. It's more anime than Teen Titans, but less anime than RWBY. RWBY is definitely anime. *sigh* How did anime become a spectrum again? "more anime" is the stupidest take I've seen about the topic. So I guess, a conventional shounen is more anime than a Ghibli film, which is more anime than an experimental series like Tatami Galaxy, oh and Crayon Shin-chan and My Neighbor Yamada's aren't anime at all, or maybe like 1%. Is that about right? |
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Orhunaa said: I'm less familiar with Tatami Galaxy and My Neighbor Yamada, but off the top of my head, Crayon Shin-chan definitely does not look particularly anime, instead using its own distinctive style.GlennMagusHarvey said: 1. It's still 2019 2. Avatar is kinda anime. Because the art style kinda fits. It's more anime than Teen Titans, but less anime than RWBY. RWBY is definitely anime. *sigh* How did anime become a spectrum again? "more anime" is the stupidest take I've seen about the topic. So I guess, a conventional shounen is more anime than a Ghibli film, which is more anime than an experimental series like Tatami Galaxy, oh and Crayon Shin-chan and My Neighbor Yamada's aren't anime at all, or maybe like 1%. Is that about right? |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Unless it was Animated by Japanese people, It's not Anime dude... |
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Breadwinnerr said: Unfortunately, language doesn't work that way.GlennMagusHarvey said: This makes more sense. ‘There are different definitions of anime’ wasn’t really the answer I was looking for. It would’ve been nice if there was one definition that is immune to any loopholes.It's not so much "loopholes" as there's simply more than one definition in common use. If anime meant only the definition Manaban gave, then it wouldn't be used to tag anything like the hundreds upon hundreds of games on Steam that are neither connected to a Japanese animation series nor made by anyone in Japan. So clearly there's at least one other definition, and this second one is quite clearly based on art style. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Soothly, semantics debates are the trifles of the bourgeois. This is one of the many reasons I leave this dumb term "anime" alone; even if we could agree that it is a stylism rather than a country of origin, the problem still remains that "anime" is so many different unrelated styles that simply have no use grouping together. It makes about as much sense as saying that "Hollywood film" is a genre — are there certain themes common in Hollywood films? yes but many Hollywood films also lack them and a lot of these themes having nothing to do with each other. Being obsessed with grouping "anime" together really makes about as much sense as arguing that Donnie Darko and 500 Days of Summer are similar to each other. From my perspective, it makes more sense to group Donnie Darko together with Serial Experiments Lain and 500 Days of Summer with The Pet Girl of Sakurasou, stylistically speaking. |
 It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
GlennMagusHarvey said: then it wouldn't be used to tag anything like the hundreds upon hundreds of games on Steam that are neither connected to a Japanese animation series nor made by anyone in Japan Glenn, Steam is a non-anime site with largely open-source tagging for its databasing I literally opened up a random game page, for Garfield Kart, and look at some of the popular tags it has Yes, I'm 100% sure fucking Garfield Kart is a Cult Classic LGBTQ+ Philosophical Dystopian Masterpiece This is the tagging system you're trying to use as a legitimate validation for your stance Mod edit: removed bait |
BrandonNov 18, 2019 10:24 PM
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GlennMagusHarvey said: Orhunaa said: I'm less familiar with Tatami Galaxy and My Neighbor Yamada, but off the top of my head, Crayon Shin-chan definitely does not look particularly anime, instead using its own distinctive style.*sigh* How did anime become a spectrum again? "more anime" is the stupidest take I've seen about the topic. So I guess, a conventional shounen is more anime than a Ghibli film, which is more anime than an experimental series like Tatami Galaxy, oh and Crayon Shin-chan and My Neighbor Yamada's aren't anime at all, or maybe like 1%. Is that about right? I'm saying using the word anime as a comparative attribute is just silly. It's akin to saying "X is more Japanese animation whereas Y doesn't quite have that traditionally associated style so it's less Japanese animation." when both are equally Japanese animation. If someone wants to refer to the style, they should say something like anime-esque or something because anime is binary. It either is or isn't. |
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Breadwinnerr said: Quite, this term is dumb anyway.Water-sama said: That would mean *some* episodes of Avatar that were animated by the Japanese would qualify as “anime” ? There are other western shows that had their animation outsourced to japan. I know I’m just nitpicking and being petty, but I am interested in your take.Unless it was Animated by Japanese people, It's not Anime dude... That there's such heated debate about it shows that this is not a stylistic term but rather one that is rooted in social tribalism — thence the copious gatekeeping. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Manaban said: And who puts up these tags? People do.GlennMagusHarvey said: Steam that are neither connected to a Japanese animation series nor made by anyone in Japan Glenn, Steam is a non-anime site with largely open-source tagging for its databasing I literally opened up a random game page, for Garfield Kart, and look at some of the popular tags it has Yes, I'm 100% sure fucking Garfield Kart is an LGBTQ+ Philosophical Dystopian Masterpiece This is the tagging system you're trying to use as a legitimate validation for your stance You can disagree with them, of course, but in terms of observing how the world actually works, it is what it is. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: And who puts up these tags? People do. Have you ever tried citing Wikipedia as a source for a paper you're writing for a class I dare you to do that if you find yourself in that situation, because according to what you're saying here, that's perfectly fine so go ahead, do it, nobody is going to take issue with it in an environment that's actually seriously trying to seek to further understand a given concept, you're completely right, I promise Wikipedia is exponentially less meme-y than Steam tags btw, again, I point to the Philosophical Cult Classic LGBTQ+ Dystopian Masterpiece known as Garfield Kart |
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Orhunaa said: It sounds silly because you're taking "anime" to mean "Japanese animation" while I'm not.GlennMagusHarvey said: I'm less familiar with Tatami Galaxy and My Neighbor Yamada, but off the top of my head, Crayon Shin-chan definitely does not look particularly anime, instead using its own distinctive style. I'm saying using the word anime as a comparative attribute is just silly. It's akin to saying "X is more Japanese animation whereas Y doesn't quite have that traditionally associated style so it's less Japanese animation." when both are equally Japanese animation. If someone wants to refer to the style, they should say something like anime-esque or something because anime is binary. It either is or isn't. Your preferred definition of "anime" is binary and based on geographic origin. Mine isn't binary, and is based on visual style. Both definitions can and do coexist. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Both definitions can and do coexist. Except one definition is commonly understood by the people upholding it as all-inclusive for all kinds of styles and animated creations coming out of a specific culture, and the other group tries using the site that labels Garfield Kart as a Philosophical Cult Classic LGBTQ+ Dystopian Masterpiece as their primary source |
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Manaban said: I haven't needed to, but if I ever write a paper about the edits that people make on Wikipedia, I'll be glad to.GlennMagusHarvey said: And who puts up these tags? People do. Have you ever tried citing Wikipedia as a source for a paper you're writing for a class I dare you to do that if you find yourself in that situation |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Manaban said: Except one is upheld by annoying asswipes who try to lord their opinions on others and cherry-pick insult fodder and the other group simply points to how people are de facto using the termGlennMagusHarvey said: Both definitions can and do coexist. Except one is upheld by sane people and the other group tries using the site that labels Garfield Kart as a Philosophical Cult Classic LGBTQ+ Dystopian Masterpiece as their primary source |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Manaban said: I haven't needed to, but if I ever write a paper about the edits that people make on Wikipedia, I'll be glad to.Have you ever tried citing Wikipedia as a source for a paper you're writing for a class I dare you to do that if you find yourself in that situation No no Glenn, much like anime isn't the topic of Steam, the paper you're citing Wikipedia in can't be about Wikipedia Do it casually, in an all-encompassing way, like you're doing here Wikipedia is a reliable source for all kinds of topics unrelated to its primary purpose, because it's open-source and the people are coming up with those articles, remember? GlennMagusHarvey said: And who puts up these tags? People do. ------ GlennMagusHarvey said: Manaban said: Except one is upheld by annoying asswipes who try to lord their opinions on others and cherry-pick insult fodder and the other group simply points to how people are de facto using the termExcept one is upheld by sane people and the other group tries using the site that labels Garfield Kart as a Philosophical Cult Classic LGBTQ+ Dystopian Masterpiece as their primary source I mean maybe if the way you were trying to substantiate your point wasn't pure comedy, I'd be able to take you more seriously Honestly, how do you propose I respond to this in earnest Look at what I'm working with here |
ManabanNov 14, 2019 1:03 PM
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Manaban said: Anime is a tag people put on games on Steam, so the citation that people are adding the Anime tag on Steam is entirely self-evident.GlennMagusHarvey said: I haven't needed to, but if I ever write a paper about the edits that people make on Wikipedia, I'll be glad to. No no Glenn, much like anime isn't the topic of Steam, the paper you're citing Wikipedia in can't be about Wikipedia Manaban said: I dunno how you interpret this as comedy; I guess you have a strange taste in comedy.GlennMagusHarvey said: Except one is upheld by annoying asswipes who try to lord their opinions on others and cherry-pick insult fodder and the other group simply points to how people are de facto using the term I mean maybe if the way you were trying to substantiate your point wasn't pure comedy, I'd be able to take you more seriously |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Orhunaa said: It sounds silly because you're taking "anime" to mean "Japanese animation" while I'm not.I'm saying using the word anime as a comparative attribute is just silly. It's akin to saying "X is more Japanese animation whereas Y doesn't quite have that traditionally associated style so it's less Japanese animation." when both are equally Japanese animation. If someone wants to refer to the style, they should say something like anime-esque or something because anime is binary. It either is or isn't. Your preferred definition of "anime" is binary and based on geographic origin. Mine isn't binary, and is based on visual style. Both definitions can and do coexist. If you want you could use anime to mean anything to your heart's content but doesn't change the fact that, by and large, it means its original definition. That's why there are words like anime-esque or anime-influenced to refer to animation with different country of origin that have the conventional anime artstyle. @Pullman Please never change. |
Auron_Nov 14, 2019 1:08 PM
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GlennMagusHarvey said: Anime is a tag people put on games on Steam, so the citation that people are adding the Anime tag on Steam is entirely self-evident. Okay then, if you're a uni student, or you ever have to take a class where you have to write a paper with citations - *any* paper with citations, not just one about wikipedia - cite Wikipedia, since the people are defining the content of that site, it's totally acceptable, right? Go ahead, if you do as much, you and I will be totally square here, and I'll respect your definition GlennMagusHarvey said: I dunno how you interpret this as comedy; I guess you have a strange taste in comedy. The fact that you don't see the problem with Steam tags in light of Garfield Kart's existence isn't helping matters tbh ---- @Orhunaa You have me blocked so I cannot respond to your profile comment you left me, but I aim to please |
ManabanNov 14, 2019 1:11 PM
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chair-sama said: Pullman said: Oh wow, youtube is your source for this information? It must be true then! But seriously, the community can change as much as it wants, that doesn't mean the definitions of words changes. And it most definitely doesn't mean that MAL's definition is gonna change. I'll say the same argument I always say on these occasions: It is simply not practical, realistic, feasible or even possible to include all of animation in the MAL DB. The staff is already working at capacity as it is. You can't just turn MAL into a general DB for all kinds of animation, it's not realistic. Who would put in all the thousands hours of work? You? I'd rather have a fairly complete and comprehensive DB of japanese/korean/chinese animation than an arbitrarily incomplete DB for animation in general that is missing a million titles from all around the world. And don't get me started on the ridiculousness of defining anime by 'style'. IT. DOES. NOT. WORK. Even setting aside the most obvious issue of it being almost impossible to define ANY style in an objective way, there is no such thing as 'the one' anime style. Even the 'mainstream' style is different now than it was in the 80s or in the 60s, not to mention the countless of shows that deviate from it each season. It is absolutely impossible to try and define anime via style without turning the question of what is an anime into an utterly subjective and biased slugfest where every single title added to the DB needs to be hotly debated by the community, and noone will agree on anything. I can already see people wanting to remove Tezuka titles (the guy who basically invented anime) from the DB because their style is very different from how modern mainstream anime look. It would be chaos. There is no upside at all. People who think you can feasibly have a DB that is defined by something as inherently vague and subjective as 'style' are delusional. That's just how it is. No matter where you stand on the question philosophically, it's not feasible as an objective criteria for entry in the DB. And you need OBJECTIVE criteria for a DB, otherwise it just becomes an arbitrary, biased, random collection of shows based on however the mods feel that day. Does anyone want that? It would diminish any credibility MAL has as a DB. If you ask me, animation is the medium and dividing it up based on country of origin is not necessary and I would prefer a DB for all of animation, but as I said it's not feasible for MAL to become that so that's out of the question. And if we have to segment the animation medium into smaller portions that can be handled by a DB, then there really are only two objective ways to do that that won't lead to every single title being debated: 1. Geographically based on country of origin (like MAL) 2. Based on animation techniques (cel animation vs digital animation vs 3Dcgi vs. oil-on-glass vs cutout animation vs pupper animation vs stop motion animation etc...) I don't think anyone is doing the latter, but unlike 'style' it would theoretically be realistic as a criteria and enforcable without endless debates about every single title. And 'Anime' has always meant (in the west) that something is from Japan/south-east asia, so that's still what the term means. It as utterly irrelevant how many anime fans enjoy western animation like Avatar or Castlevania, the definition of anime is still the same. So yeah, it has nothing to do with my opinion (which is that all of animation is one medium), it's just about what works realistically for a DB like MAL and what 'anime' as a term has always meant. You can't just randomly change things for no real reason. Which brings me to me counter question @Breadwinnerr Why do you even want Avatar to be seen as an anime? What difference does it make to your happiness and well-being? Why can't you just enjoy something western, created by westerners for westerners, once in a while without trying to attribute it to Japan? Where is the problem? I never understand the issue in the first place, what do people hope to gain by labeling Avatar as an anime instead of a 'cartoon'? If it's just because you want it on MAL, then see above for why it is not feasible to change the MAL guidelines to something vague and subjective that can't be objectively defined. And any other reason for wanting Avatar to be seen as anime is just silly and usually boils down to 'I'm such a weeb that I can't enjoy anything western in good conscience so I have to pretend western stuff I like is actually japanese to be able to appreciate it'. In which case, get over it, you're being ridiculous. That's an overkill, you didn't need to do that. Nobody needs to do literally anything except die, how is that an argument for or against anything? I obviously wanted to do it, otherwise I wouldn't have done it. I care about weird things, like people doing a minimum amount of research before they make statements. But I care even more about people having informed opinions, if they don't inform themselves I'm willing to help out when it's one of the few things I know shit about. I do hope I didn't come off as too aggressive, but it's not always easy to stay polite. I don't want to piss people off, but I also don't want them to feel like being ignorant and not doing your own research before you start or join a debate is A-okay. |
AlcoholicideNov 14, 2019 1:10 PM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Manaban said: There's a certain magic in beating somebody in a way that's so one-sided This is a good experience for everyone involved, I'm sure Pullman said: Nobody needs to do literally anything except die, how is that an argument for or against anything? Well, yeah...I also enjoy seeing somebody being demolished by fair arguments in a discussion, but he's just a kid, where half of his favorite characters are one of the edgiest people I've seen in any anime. There was no point in writing that much, for somone like that. |
| Jolyne Kuujou + Steel Ball Run Universe = Billie Eillish |
| The way I look at it, something can be qualified as anime if it fits at least 2 of these 3 criteria: Made in japan, made by the japanese, made for a japanese audience. Here's some examples. The Big O season 2: made in japan by a japanese production, but for a western audience. Is still anime. B: the beginning: made in japan, by the japanese, for a worldwide netflix audience. Is anime. Cannon Busters: now this is a show you could actually debate. Made in japan, by the japanese AND Americans, for the worldwide audience of netflix. but since it was primarily made by an anime studio and only really some animators and the director are westerners, I'd say it's still anime. Avatar the Last Airbender: made in America by Americans for Americans: not anime. Rwby: see above. Batman the Animated series, animated quite a lot by the same people as the Big O, but was made for the west and had a western production, is a cartoon. |
Luchse said: YossaRedMage said: Oh wow, man you've got to calm down...Anime is Japanese. The Japanese made animation worth a damn. And now people are trying to hijack the community. Look, if you like animation in general, not just Anime, then make a community space for that. Problem is, there's no community like the Anime community for animation in general is there? You know why? Japan has done animation better than the rest of the world for a long time. And more and more people who don't give a fuck about Japan have come in like refugees from the barren wasteland of western animation trying to change the culture (little spicy political commentary for you there ;). You're being a straight-up asshole by trying to change the definition of the object of passion for this community. There may be others who agree with you, but there are 10 of us for every 1 of you. Not that it should matter. NO ONE has ANY right to change the definitions that ANY fandom is made from. It's far more healthy for seperate fandoms to spring up so that peoples individual tastes are better catered for. Also, my God, are people still doing that argument where they start by saying "it's current year why are we still doing [thing I don't like]"? Seriously - and I mean seriously - fuck off with that. New is not always better. Good point. I hadn't thought about that way. Such good arguments. This was a great conversation, please quote me more often so I get to read your excellently thought-out posts. Sarcasm aside, I know it's the internet and it's easy to interpret everything you read through an extreme lens, but try imagining my posts said in calm but firm, rather than straight-up angry voice, and you will be closer to the actual tone with which I was expressing myself. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
chair-sama said: Manaban said: There's a certain magic in beating somebody in a way that's so one-sided This is a good experience for everyone involved, I'm sure Pullman said: Nobody needs to do literally anything except die, how is that an argument for or against anything? Well, yeah...I also enjoy seeing somebody being demolished by fair arguments in a discussion, but he's just a kid, where half of his favorite characters are one of the edgiest people I've seen in any anime. There was no point in writing that much, for somone like that. I know I have a bad habit of writing walls of text, but I can't help it. I type pretty fast and I hate to put incomplete information out there. Once I start writing on a topic I just keep going until everything I have to say is being said. I forget about time and other trivialities while I'm putting my thoughts into words. It's both an enjoyable process and probably slightly OCD. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
YossaRedMage said: Japan has made a lot of trash too and there are western cartoons worth a damn.Anime is Japanese. The Japanese made animation worth a damn. And now people are trying to hijack the community. Look, if you like animation in general, not just Anime, then make a community space for that. Problem is, there's no community like the Anime community for animation in general is there? You know why? Japan has done animation better than the rest of the world for a long time. And more and more people who don't give a fuck about Japan have come in like refugees from the barren wasteland of western animation trying to change the culture (little spicy political commentary for you there ;). There is a general animation community. Netflix and possibly other companies are the ones trying to hijack anime for their own purposes not the general animation community. Netflix is quick to call anything animated anime to get viewers. Anime community is the one that is taking over since the general animation site Toonzone has been renamed Anime superhero and now only the forum is called Toonzone. |
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| Oh, you know what is comedy? Breadwinnerr said: Avatar is an anime. Bread_lover_666 said: It's a bread-on-bread fight, ladies and gentlemen.ITS NOT AN ANIME. Orhunaa said: You're right that there are terms like that that also have this definition, and I've actually tried using them before, but I found other people using the term to mean stuff that's only somewhat anime anime-styled but not fully-anime-styled-but-just-western, and instead people just used "anime" to refer to whatever that looks like anime. I mean, more people say "my friend draws anime art" than "my friend draws animesque art", and no one checks geographic origin of the artwork in question before saying something like "people keep uploading sped-up songs paired with anime girl art to youtube and calling it nightcore".GlennMagusHarvey said: It sounds silly because you're taking "anime" to mean "Japanese animation" while I'm not. Your preferred definition of "anime" is binary and based on geographic origin. Mine isn't binary, and is based on visual style. Both definitions can and do coexist. If you want you could use anime to mean anything to your heart's content but doesn't change the fact that, by and large, it means its original definition. That's why there are words like anime-esque or anime-influenced to refer to animation with different country of origin that have the conventional anime artstyle. The art style definition does, like you say "by and large", coincide with the geographic origin definition. However, they're not exactly the same, so you get these edge cases that people just like to argue over, because on the internet people argue about things. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Orhunaa said: GlennMagusHarvey said: It sounds silly because you're taking "anime" to mean "Japanese animation" while I'm not. Your preferred definition of "anime" is binary and based on geographic origin. Mine isn't binary, and is based on visual style. Both definitions can and do coexist. If you want you could use anime to mean anything to your heart's content but doesn't change the fact that, by and large, it means its original definition. That's why there are words like anime-esque or anime-influenced to refer to animation with different country of origin that have the conventional anime artstyle. @Pullman Please never change. I'm afraid I'm not able to even if I wanted. I tried in the past and it just doesn't work. I'm always all-or-nothing on anything, whether it's writing my thoughts on a topic, my hobbies, or any other aspect of my life. If I can't do it exhaustively, I don't do it at all. Not sure if that's good or bad, but it is who I am :>. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
YossaRedMage said: Well, at first I did portray it in a calm manner but when I went over the barren land, asshole and the part when you used the capital letters to express unsatisfaction with what others have done, I just kinda took it as what it is, a rant.Luchse said: Oh wow, man you've got to calm down... Good point. I hadn't thought about that way. Such good arguments. This was a great conversation, please quote me more often so I get to read your excellently thought-out posts. Sarcasm aside, I know it's the internet and it's easy to interpret everything you read through an extreme lens, but try imagining my posts said in calm but firm, rather than straight-up angry voice, and you will be closer to the actual tone with which I was expressing myself. |
  “The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!” |
Manaban said: You make the mistake of thinking your respect is worth anything.GlennMagusHarvey said: Anime is a tag people put on games on Steam, so the citation that people are adding the Anime tag on Steam is entirely self-evident. Okay then, if you're a uni student, or you ever have to take a class where you have to write a paper with citations - *any* paper with citations, not just one about wikipedia - cite Wikipedia, since the people are defining the content of that site, it's totally acceptable, right? Go ahead, if you do as much, you and I will be totally square here, and I'll respect your definition Manaban said: I do see a problem with troll tagging, but I don't see a need to give a proper response to a purposely dug-up example of troll tags.GlennMagusHarvey said: I dunno how you interpret this as comedy; I guess you have a strange taste in comedy. The fact that you don't see the problem with Steam tags in light of Garfield Kart's existence isn't helping matters tbh Meanwhile: https://store.steampowered.com/app/248800/Dysfunctional_Systems_Learning_to_Manage_Chaos/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/Freedom_Planet/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/444000/Super_Night_Riders/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/539330/Light_Fairytale_Episode_1/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/315860/Celestian_Tales_Old_North/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/451760/Highway_Blossoms/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/277890/Shantae_Riskys_Revenge__Directors_Cut/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/253840/Shantae_HalfGenie_Hero/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/345820/Shantae_and_the_Pirates_Curse/ I can go on all day. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: You make the mistake of thinking your respect is worth anything. Then, pray tell Glenn, why do you defend your crummy definitions and arguments from my mockery every single time, without fail still? Shouldn't my take on the way you want to do things be irrelevant to you if you didn't want some form of validation from it and thought my word was worth dirt? What do you have to prove to me? GlennMagusHarvey said: I do see a problem with troll tagging, but I don't see a need to give a proper response to a purposely dug-up example of troll tags. Meanwhile: https://store.steampowered.com/app/248800/Dysfunctional_Systems_Learning_to_Manage_Chaos/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/Freedom_Planet/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/444000/Super_Night_Riders/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/539330/Light_Fairytale_Episode_1/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/315860/Celestian_Tales_Old_North/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/451760/Highway_Blossoms/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/277890/Shantae_Riskys_Revenge__Directors_Cut/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/253840/Shantae_HalfGenie_Hero/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/345820/Shantae_and_the_Pirates_Curse/ I can go on all day. Glenn, my man, please understand that there's a broader point here to be taken into consideration than just individual examples that you and I could toss out, and that's the issues inherent to being reliant on open-source platforms, such as Wikipedia or Steam Tagging, being the exclusive citation to justify a claim. I'm sorry that you lack the facilities to grasp what I'm getting at with the Garfield Kart example and why I'm saying stuff like this undermines the credibility of Steam tags, especially when thrown in tandem with the fact that it's a platform primarily used by people who are largely ignorant of anime in the first place, but yes, there actually is more to what I'm trying to say here than just tossing out a shitpost example. |
|
| Avatar will never be an anime, not in 2020, not in 2050, not in 2199. Give up the fight, you'll never win. |
  |
Manaban said: I'm not "defending" anything, I'm simply laying out either the facts or my opinion, as applicable, for others to see them.GlennMagusHarvey said: You make the mistake of thinking your respect is worth anything. Then, pray tell Glenn, why do you defend your crummy definitions and arguments from my mockery every single time, without fail still? Manaban said: I have nothing to prove to you.Shouldn't my take on the way you want to do things be irrelevant to you if you didn't want some form of validation from it and thought my word was worth dirt? What do you have to prove to me? Manaban said: Your claim relies on the presumption that there is one single authoritative definition that can only be served by an authoritative source, so "open-source platforms" cannot be cited as a source for that definition.GlennMagusHarvey said: I do see a problem with troll tagging, but I don't see a need to give a proper response to a purposely dug-up example of troll tags. Meanwhile: https://store.steampowered.com/app/248800/Dysfunctional_Systems_Learning_to_Manage_Chaos/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/Freedom_Planet/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/444000/Super_Night_Riders/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/539330/Light_Fairytale_Episode_1/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/315860/Celestian_Tales_Old_North/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/451760/Highway_Blossoms/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/277890/Shantae_Riskys_Revenge__Directors_Cut/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/253840/Shantae_HalfGenie_Hero/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/345820/Shantae_and_the_Pirates_Curse/ I can go on all day. Glenn, my man, please understand that there's a broader point here to be taken into consideration than just individual examples that you and I could toss out, and that's the issues inherent to being reliant on open-source platforms, such as Wikipedia or Steam Tagging, being the exclusive citation to justify a claim. But the reality is that people use the term in a certain way, regardless of your choice of definition to regard as authoritative. TL;DR the word means what people actually use it to mean, not what you say people should use it to mean. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
zombie_pegasus said: but OP already won by starting a flamewar thread :-DDDDDAvatar will never be an anime, not in 2020, not in 2050, not in 2199. Give up the fight, you'll never win. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| OP opened the salt mine for harvest with this thread. |
| Be happy with what you have to be happy with |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Your claim relies on the presumption that there is one single authoritative definition that can only be served by an authoritative source, so "open-source platforms" cannot be cited as a source for that definition. I'm saying that the site that's targeted at a broad audience of PC videogame players, most of whom don't even watch anime, and has an open source tagging system defined primarily by that audience is not a respectable citation that gives your point any validity. But the reality is that people use the term in a certain way, regardless of your choice of definition to regard as authoritative. And given that this is a definition that invalidates something like The Tatami Galaxy as an anime because it doesn't look like a modern CGDCT, I'm going to meet that definition with resistence because it's superficial and reductive and treats anime less like a cultural product and more like that it's a question of "Does it have big, cutesy eyes?" It's incredibly reductive and stupid. And shallow. And, ironically, more limiting to creativity within the concept of anime than listing it as a cultural product could ever hope to entail. TL;DR the word means what people actually use it to mean, not what you say people should use it to mean. And it's unfortunate that this is true in the same vein that the best argument against Democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter. All I can do is meet it with resistence and try to convince people of the inferiority of your definition and superiority of mine. Which, yes, mine is superior by every metric that matters because yours reduces the idea of "anime" from a western lens down to "Do they have big eyes?" and the only notable reason you've stated for liking this idea more is that it removes cultural differences and the idea of being an exchange down into something that shouldn't exist whatsoever, as if the social constructs and entertainment media that I consume from my native land of Germany would basically just be the same as what I'd get out of something that's from across the globe that's a byproduct of a society with different norms than my own. They're not, and that's a much more important divide to make that is infinitely more useful than the aesthetics of their fucking faces. I prefer using this latter definition since it is nationality-independent but is a characteristic of the work itself. I can understand some people preferring the nationality-based definition because it's just more convenient for drawing lines, though -- particularly for stuff like database exclusion/inclusion questions. |
ManabanNov 14, 2019 1:54 PM
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| At this point, I don't really care whether it's an anime or not, but it's a masterpiece for sure. |
| If you read Eleceed you're automatically my friend. |
| Just because it's animation doesn't mean it's anime. It doesn't matter how much you think it should be. The majority of the community doesn't see it as that. But it's not degrading to call it an american animation, or simply, a cartoon; ATLA is still a bomb-ass show, regardless |
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