Orhunaa said: My reasoning is that restricting the term to artstyle excludes many works. Anime isn't uniform, neither in its aesthetics, nor in its way of storytelling. Any artistic limitation on the word anime is tantamount to cutting away part of the culture which many people associate with themselves. The thing is, that's how people have been using the word. I didn't choose that or make it up. We can continue to correct every single one of the 10000 people that call Avatar and Castlevania etc. an anime or we accept that things are changing. I also don't understand how it's a limitation at all. We are saying "this looks like most anime do, it's okay to call it an anime too." which doesn't mean we also say "this doesn't look like anime, so it's not anime". Maybe one day the word will just be used as a synonym for animation, as it is in Japanese. Who knows. Shouldn't be a problem. Also... " cutting away part of the culture " What? If even the country it comes from doesn't give their own work a special title treatment, I don't see why the rest of the world feels the need to. Kind of reminds me of gatekeeping. And people are gatekeeping a gate that doesn't even belong to them. |
BeautifulDirtNov 15, 2019 2:45 PM
BeautifulDirt said: I also don't understand how it's a limitation at all. We are saying "this looks like most anime do, it's okay to call it an anime too." which doesn't mean we also say "this doesn't look like anime, so it's not anime". Maybe one day the word will just be used as a synonym for animation, as it is in Japanese. Who knows. Shouldn't be a problem. It actually does, if we want to be consistent in our logic. If we define anime by its aesthetics, the logical corollary of that would be that something which doesn't align with that aesthetic criterion is not an anime. I'm talking about cutting away works that are Japanese animation but no longer satisfy the definition of anime. BeautifulDirt said: What? If even the country it comes from doesn't give their own work a special title treatment, I don't see why the rest of the world feels the need to. It's for convenience's sake. We could have a cartoons database where everything animated exists but specialized sites to cater to people to a greater degree is more beneficial. Also Japanese people kinda do it as well, in their site Anikore only Japanese animation is listed as far as I know. |
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Peeti said: I wanna ask you about movies like west animated movies Why me? Peeti said: as they had a high budget Not all of them. Peeti said: So, how is their animation? How different are they? From what, each other? Usually yes. But how should I know? Haven't watched them all...not even possible. For example I liked the animation of Dofus, livre 1 : Julith...also the animation in the rest of Dofus and Wakfu. But what this means on a bigger scale? Peeti said: Or even tv series. Randomly liked Over the Garden Wall, Infinity Train and Carmen Sandiego...this has nothing to do with what are you asking for...because I still don't know what are you asking me... Peeti said: Well only if you want though. I am pretty sure that you don't know what you want to ask me too. |
Orhunaa said: It actually does, if we want to be consistent in our logic. If we define anime by its aesthetics, the logical corollary of that would be that something which doesn't align with that aesthetic criterion is not an anime. Lol, you can't just be like "you might say that's how you mean it but I don't allow you to". I want the definition of Anime to be loosened, that is all. Not as harsh of a black and white definition as you apparently need it to be. I'm fine if both Japanese animation and other animation that has a style associated with Japanese animation is called anime. Orhunaa said: It's for convenience's sake. Imo it's inconvenient to not describe what looks and feels like anime as anime.. Really, I will never understand people that make a deal out of whether someone says "hey, give Avatar a try, it's also anime" or "hey, give Avatar a try, it's an anime-styled cartoon"... Orhunaa said: We could have a cartoons database where everything animated exists but specialized sites to cater to people to a greater degree is more beneficial. I'm sure you realise that there will never be as many people that want Rick and Morty added on here as there are people that want Castlevania or Avatar. And since the amount of people is so high, I don't know why we should fight the general notion so much. Anyway, I don't really care about the databases. If sites only want Japanese animation, whatever. I'm more talking about whether people should be allowed to call other series anime or not. |
| I wouldn't say that. There's a clear difference between anime and avatar aside from the animation and non-episodic story. Besides that, I personally would like to have a term to identify Japanese animation. It's just so different from everything else and I would hate to put spongebob and Kaiji into the same catagory. |
| woah there |
alshu said: I do know what I wanna ask though.👻Peeti said: I wanna ask you about movies like west animated movies Why me? Peeti said: as they had a high budget Not all of them. Peeti said: So, how is their animation? How different are they? From what, each other? Usually yes. But how should I know? Haven't watched them all...not even possible. For example I liked the animation of Dofus, livre 1 : Julith...also the animation in the rest of Dofus and Wakfu. But what this means on a bigger scale? Peeti said: Or even tv series. Randomly liked Over the Garden Wall, Infinity Train and Carmen Sandiego...this has nothing to do with what are you asking for...because I still don't know what are you asking me... Peeti said: Well only if you want though. I am pretty sure that you don't know what you want to ask me too. |
| "I think I wanted to attack something. Like betraying people or hurting people. And, well, it's not exactly nice, but hurting the readers too... In all honestly, I feel that's what I really wanted to do. For me, as a reader, when I think, "this manga will remain in my heart," it means, for example, it phenomenally hurt me: It's those kinds of experiences I'm after." - Pajime Hisayama (My favourite hurting author). |
| So are Tom and Jerry & Spongebob Squarepants |
| Lmao i'm aware this topic has been around for years but i've never had the chance to comment on it so, Anime = animation made by japanese people, was Avatar made by japanese animators? I don't think so. |
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petran79 said: Even foreigners in Japan have to adapt to the Japanese production and streamlining process. Difference is as strong as between comics and manga What I meant to say is, anime is called something different from other animation because it's made by Japanese people and anime is the Japanese word for animation. So if non-Japanese people eventually outnumber Japanese in anime production, should it still be called anime? |
| Ok so I've read a bit on this thread and people are saying that anime are only stuff made in Japan but... Aren't Chinese and Korean stuff also considered anime? In that case is it not a matter of style then? Or maybe anime are Asian stuff in general? Similar cultures? Also, how much of the show has to be made in Japan? Animation is often outsourced and foreign artists are getting involved more and more. Especially regarding the music, anime is taking stuff from the west more and more I think. I don't have the statistics but from the top of my head, Kevin Penkin for Made in Abyss. Not quite sure but Carole and Tuesday definitely sounded like there were some western talent mixed with it. Not surprising considering Netflix's involvement. |
| I'm coming back from the future of 2069 and avatar is still not an anime |
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GatesOfOblivion said: Avatar is animation done using the western Cartoon style. Animes are animation done using the eastern "Anime" style. Both are animation. So it can be, if it really means that much to you. Yeah, avatar doesn't have the usual limited animation you find in most anime. So it's not exactly "anime" in that regard either. The mouth flaps and the shapes they make also match the words (like a cartoon), they don't just flap open and shut like a goldfish's mouth. And besides the design of the eyes (just eyes, not even irises), the overall character designs are very much like any western cartoon. For one, ATLA's character designs were inspired by FLCL (Aang even looks like a bald twin of Naota), and FLCL itself doesn't look like a "typical" anime. Gainax original anime have their own distinct visual style. And the characters (in ATLA) have actual noses, not the usual "dots" or pointy "triangles" that pass for nose in a "typical" anime. And the 3rd season even has a "higher contrast" look that cartoons have, with vivid colors and dark shadows, rather than the slightly washed out look that most anime have. But yeah, to the Japanese everything animated is "anime", whether it's "anime" anime, Tom and Jerry, Batman: TAS, Adventure Time, Frozen, or Shrek. So it's already anime depending upon who you ask. |
VhailorNov 16, 2019 10:50 AM
Breadwinnerr said: rommelcedric said: The definition of anime is: “Anime (US: /ˈænəˌmeɪ/, UK: /ˈænɪˌmeɪ/)[1] (Japanese: アニメ Hepburn: anime, [aɲime] (About this soundlisten), plural: anime)[a] is hand-drawn and computer animation originating from or associated with Japan.” By this definition, Avatar would qualify as an anime since it’s largely associated with Japan🤣🤔On this topic, if the show is American produced by animated by a Japanese animation studio, is it or is it not anime? What the hell are you smoking? how is it associated with japan outside of idiots calling it anime for 15 years because they're insecure about it being a cartoon. |
| Avatar is a western cartoon, not an anime. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
| I prefer to call it "The best cartoon to ever exist" |
petran79 said: This is easy and there are examples. First the opposite case. Watch the end credits for the Last Unicorn. Majority of staff are Japanese animators. Yet film is considered an American cartoon. So you're saying anime is made for Japan and cartoons are made for the west. Makes sense. This would mean ATLA, Castlevania and RWBY are all cartoons since they're made for the west, even though they use the anime artstyle. You've convinced me on this definition. |
Breadwinnerr said: CommieCool said: I guess it makes sense, but there’s quite a lot of anime I’ve seen that almost feel like they’re speaking to a western audience. Kinda like the South Park references in FLCL, also like how Hello Kitty is more of a western thing than it is a Japanese thing.So you're saying anime is made for Japan and cartoons are made for the west. Makes sense. This would mean ATLA, Castlevania and RWBY are all cartoons since they're made for the west, even though they use the anime artstyle. You've convinced me on this definition. Anime with a western influence are still anime, much like how animated cartoons with an anime influence (Avatar, RWBY) are still cartoons. I don't know why you keep bringing up Hello Kitty since the character and I believe most of the Hello Kitty series were made in Japan like Furry Tale Theater. Just because the character is well known in the west and most people are ignorant of where it originated doesn't really change anything. |
TubbyNov 16, 2019 2:15 PM
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| I wish this argument would die harder than the avatar franchise died with korra. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
Breadwinnerr said: I guess it makes sense, but there’s quite a lot of anime I’ve seen that almost feel like they’re speaking to a western audience. Kinda like the South Park references in FLCL, also like how Hello Kitty is more of a western thing than it is a Japanese thing. I feel like FLCL was shooting more for an alternative crowd than most anime. South Park is edgy, foreign and was big in 2000. It makes sense for Tsurumaki to include references in FLCL. |
| Why is this even still an argument? And why is Avatar the only cartoon people are aggressively trying to push as an anime? You realize if The Last Airbender is recognized as an anime then by default Legend of Korra would have to be as well. You know, the show a lot of Avatar fans have deemed inferior to the original. Not only that, but there are plenty of other western cartoons that were heavily influenced by their eastern counterpart. Some of which also have a style very similar to anime. If Avatar's in, then all these other shows should be as well. Stop playing favoritism. |
edelgord said: It always is since the word anime basically is borrowed from the term "animation". But i don't think i want it to be here just to gain joke supports from the top anime ruiner trolls and downvotes from the bigoted weeaboos because they don't want some weird western 3d animation just like what happened with Pingu in The City in this weebsite. Look at the collective voting bar shape https://myanimelist.net/anime/36259/Pingu_in_the_City/stats Pingu got 1-vote bombed because people were giving it 10 as a meme, it has nothing to do with the quality of the show or people being biased. I'm willing to bet that only around 5% of the people voting on that entry even watched it. |
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| If it ain't from Japan, it ain't anime. It's literally indicated in the definition. This thread is a magnet. I rest my case. All the Donghua stuff technically isn't anime, either. |
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| Lmao I thought the James Cameron one was about to get an anime adaption. Äof course its another Mothers Basement topic. Sigh. No, Avatar is not an anime. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| Idk tbh. I personally consider Avatar to be an anime simply because it looks like one. I never understood the whole argument of "what is anime and what's not" tbh. In general there shouldn't be any limitations to what can be called an anime. Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with others. It's like if people were to argue what would actually qualify a sandwich being a sandwich. It doesn't matter what you put on it, at the end of the day it's still a sandwich. So Avatar not being made in Japan and therefore not being classified as an anime is just plain silly imo. |
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AntwanMantilla said: Idk tbh. I personally consider Avatar to be an anime simply because it looks like one. I never understood the whole argument of "what is anime and what's not" tbh. In general there shouldn't be any limitations to what can be called an anime. Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with others. It's like if people were to argue what would actually qualify a sandwich being a sandwich. It doesn't matter what you put on it, at the end of the day it's still a sandwich. So Avatar not being made in Japan and therefore not being classified as an anime is just plain silly imo. The irony is the example you seemingly randomly picked is actually a fairly common argument. Specifically there's a long running argument about whether say a hot dog is a sandwich that's been around for like half a decade. |
GamerDLMNov 17, 2019 1:14 AM
TheKawaiiToon said: Is Avatar an anime? Well technically yes. Anime is cartoon and cartoon is anime. I consider shows like One Piece, Sword Art Online, My Hero Academia, Konosuba, Demon Slayer, Violet Evergarden and Code Geass cartoons. I consider shows like Avatar, Teen Titans (both series), Spongebob, My Little Pony, Steven Universe, The Miraculous Ladybug and Rick and Morty anime. In the end, they are all nothing but drawings on paper. And tbh, this debate is as old and as stale as dubs vs subs and the waifu wars and that's all I can say about this. technically, all cartoons are anime but not all anime are cartoons. since anima (animéshon=animation) are not restrictive nor exclusive to cartoony stuff. |
rommelcedric said: Breadwinnerr said: The definition of anime is: “Anime (US: /ˈænəˌmeɪ/, UK: /ˈænɪˌmeɪ/)[1] (Japanese: アニメ Hepburn: anime, [aɲime] (About this soundlisten), plural: anime)[a] is hand-drawn and computer animation originating from or associated with Japan.” By this definition, Avatar would qualify as an anime since it’s largely associated with Japan🤣🤔 On my question then, an American produced animation that's animated by a Japanese animation studio is anime by that definition then. As long as a significant portion of the work is done in Japan then yes. Some examples of what you described could be The Big O season 2 and FLCL seasons 2 and 3 were all co-produced between Japanese studios and Adult Swim/Cartoon Network. Unless you mean the animation was primarily done in America and then outsourced portions to Japan in which case the answer gets really sketchy but would again fall under the amount of Japanese involvement. If the Japanese studio was just say doing clean up work or in-between animation frames the answer would likely be no, but if they handled like key animations or entire episodes that would be different. Granted the phrase "American produced animation" doesn't really make sense in the context. Because produced is a very loose term. |
GamerDLMNov 18, 2019 1:08 AM
Breadwinnerr said: GamerDLM said: Okay, but it would be unreasonable for one to expect the average anime fan to go research and find out who had the most involvement: Americans or Japanese people?As long as a significant portion of the work is done in Japan then yes. Some examples of what you described could be The Big O season 2 and FLCL seasons 2 and 3 were all co-produced between Japanese studios and Adult Swim/Cartoon Network. Unless you mean the animation was primarily done in America and then outsourced portions to Japan in which case the answer gets really sketchy but would again fall under the amount of Japanese involvement. If the Japanese studio was just say doing clean up work or in-between animation frames the answer would likely be no, but if they handled like key animations or entire episodes that would be different. Granted the phrase "American produced animation" doesn't really make sense in the context. Because produced is a very loose term. Then you can reference sites like anidb or this site which has a definitive criteria for what counts as significant involvement and presumably people who are actually interested in researching staff involvement. In general staff involvement is not that in depth of a research topic because all it requires would be reading the credits which can be cross referenced to catch all sites like wikipedia. But it's no more unreasonable than every fan deciding arbitrarily what counts as anime because they're using a subjective measure such as style which is not a consistent thing in anime (unless you just want to pretend like several decades of anime don't exist). |
| Does it matter? Anime is practically a coined term for Japanese animation, which gained prominence rather being called cartoon in any other countries. Avatar was inspired by Japanese animation, like how Panty and Stocking is inspired by Western cartoon, are we to call Panty and Stocking a cartoon now? Semantically, they are just both animations, just with derivatives, and it should stay like that. Not like being an anime or cartoon can be interpreted as superior, it's simply a placeholder, so I don't understand the pointless buzz. |
 𝔚𝔞𝔫𝔫𝔞 𝔱𝔬𝔲𝔠𝔥 𝔶𝔬𝔲, 𝔚𝔞𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔫' 𝔶𝔬𝔲 𝔴𝔦𝔱𝔥 𝔞𝔩𝔩 𝔪𝔶 𝔪𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱 ______________________ |
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