| Maybe not to this community or the likes of tumblr. But in terms of most other anime communities, not many people are talking about this series and it's such a shame. There's so much thought and emotional put into this series and it's a real shame people take a pass on this because of some misjudgments. This ISN'T a yaoi. This ISN'T some fluff story like Yuri on Ice. This IS a 1980s manga that's being faithfully adapted. This IS a heartbreaking story. That's my PSA |
AnimeZ0idNov 22, 2018 11:06 AM
| Oscar and Andre deserved better |
Hatred said: yeah it's lowkey underrated but also...it is a yaoi..lowkey.. Yaoi usually implies some kind of sexual relationship. More of a Shounen Ai but even so, it's not the main focus of the series. Yuri on Ice had more emphasis on their fluffy relationship. I wouldn't say Banana Fish is for those yaoi fan girls. |
| Oscar and Andre deserved better |
| Yeah, it's unfortunate that people overlook this anime cuz of the subtle shounen-ai undertones. The farthest the anime goes is like a kiss scene that was for a plot point :/ |
  Don't worry about being lame now, you were always lame anyway!  |
Hatred said: AnimeZ0id said: Yaoi usually implies some kind of sexual relationship. More of a Shounen Ai but even so, it's not the main focus of the series. Yuri on Ice had more emphasis on their fluffy relationship. I wouldn't say Banana Fish is for those yaoi fan girls. i mean if it was for those yaoi fan girls i wouldn't be watching it rn but still,their relationship doesn't come off as platonic I never said it was platonic. But if the only reason you watch the series is for those rare cute moments than you're really missing out. The overall narrative of the series is fantastic. |
| Oscar and Andre deserved better |
BackstageMage said: Yeah, it's unfortunate that people overlook this anime cuz of the subtle shounen-ai undertones. The farthest the anime goes is like a kiss scene that was for a plot point :/ Yeah I was even taken aback with that chapter/episode. So I can see why people would back off. But it was for the plot. It was kind of clever. |
| Oscar and Andre deserved better |
| You can't blame people for avoiding this anime bl stuff are not for everyone |
 |
| The show is gay sorry, and how in the hell is 8+ "underrated" lmao. |
 |
| I'll watch it once it finishes airing but I'm a little skeptical about the supposed quality and thought put into it given the people that usually recommend it. |
 |
| I feel like the reason most people brush off this anime is because it takes a TON of risks at the beginning. As was stated, a kiss is as far as they go, and that is in one of the first few episodes. Additionally, there is a LOT of rape in the early portion of the series. I consider that be one of its main drawbacks and my main gripes with it. However, there is a reason for it, and it only becomes clear once you dwell on the main themes of the work (which can really only be done when you read the Angel Eyes side story after finishing the manga; there is so far no real anime equivalent). Only then does it become clear that Banana Fish frames sexual assault as an abuse of power and in retrospect, the main reason there's a ton of rape at the beginning is because the MC and his group do not possess power and are often subjugated to the whims of others. When they do get power, the amount of rape decreases dramatically and the reflection upon its effects begin. Needless to say, there's still a bit too much and also episode 6 exists... I hate episode 6 because its content is so easily misinterpreted (I won't talk about it on this post, but I did write about it here). In general, first impressions for it are extremely deceiving. Its shoujo demographic tag also misleads people to think it is 'fujoshi bait.' But as time goes on, I'm beginning to realize that the most likely reason it was published in a shoujo magazine 30 years ago is because females would relate to Ash's history of sexual abuse much easier than males would. There are plenty of people watching this that do not normally watch BL anime because semantically, it's not a BL anime. Yes, it does feature a gay couple, but that does not make it a BL. Labeling it as such is implying that Banana Fish contains harmful tropes that are often found in BL or yaoi works when that could not be further from the truth. |
| Im not a fan of the BL stuff. But tbh Banana Fish is FAR from that, I see this show as more of vengeance quest series. Even though it has men kissing it shouldn't effect the enjoyment of the series |
| 2 dudes being friends = yaoi for a lot of dumb people on MAL unfortunately. |
 |
TsukuyomiREKT said: 2 dudes being friends = yaoi for a lot of dumb people on MAL unfortunately. Agreed. There are also a ton of little snowflakes that can't handle a show like this with "upsetting" themes at the same time thinking gratuitous violence (women typically getting raped) like the first episode of Goblin Slayer is "edgy and fantastic". Mod edit: removed bait |
BrandonDec 11, 2018 8:00 AM
| I mean, it's 8.07 in MAL. Which is a really good rating for a seasonal while it's airing. Expect it to improve when the last episode airs, like it usually happens. |
| Usually airing shows with a score of 8 and above tend to rise even more when they finish airing. And this is so totally not underrated. Also, it's a yaoi show despite you admit it or not. |
 |
KatsutoSaki said: Also, it's a yaoi show despite you admit it or not. By what definition of "yaoi" are you going by? A defining characteristic of yaoi anime is the uke and seme relationship and they often feature explicit sexual scenes. It's not tagged as yaoi on MAL because its content does not fit that genre label. I know when Banana Fish first started airing, there were lots of talk about it being a yaoi show floating around because quite simply put, no one knew exactly what kind of content the anime had. However, at this point, most people have a clear understanding of what this anime is about and now the majority of people that claim Banana Fish is a yaoi anime are doing so with ill intent, as an insult towards the show and those who enjoy it. I know that's not your intention, but you're adding to a problem that actually exists because you're misinformed. |
Lunallae said: KatsutoSaki said: Also, it's a yaoi show despite you admit it or not. By what definition of "yaoi" are you going by? A defining characteristic of yaoi anime is the uke and seme relationship and they often feature explicit sexual scenes. It's not tagged as yaoi on MAL because its content does not fit that genre label. I know when Banana Fish first started airing, there were lots of talk about it being a yaoi show floating around because quite simply put, no one knew exactly what kind of content the anime had. However, at this point, most people have a clear understanding of what this anime is about and now the majority of people that claim Banana Fish is a yaoi anime are doing so with ill intent, as an insult towards the show and those who enjoy it. I know that's not your intention, but you're adding to a problem that actually exists because you're misinformed. Lunallae is correct. Many of you are misinterpreting the series like I mentioned in the beginning. This isn't BL or Yaoi. This isn't Love Stage!!! or queerbait like Free! This isn't some porn lol. I know many of you are anime onlys and that's ok but do note this isn't some cutesy anime about two boys falling in love. The story is much more dark and complicated than that. |
| Oscar and Andre deserved better |
Lunallae said: Lunallae, you are much too kind to these idiots who are "misinformed" because they choose to be (which makes them idiots to me) when there is plenty available information and proof at their fingertips that this is not yaoi. While I, myself, disagree with Yoshida-Sensei calling it a shojo, at the end of the day, it's her call. To me it's an action, revenge story with a crime mystery and a dash of BL and shojo tropes thrown in. No where near today's definition of yaoi. The ignorant idiots probably know this but it's easier for them to parade around the internet throwing terms like yaoi around while being completely clueless as to what it applies to.KatsutoSaki said: Also, it's a yaoi show despite you admit it or not. By what definition of "yaoi" are you going by? A defining characteristic of yaoi anime is the uke and seme relationship and they often feature explicit sexual scenes. It's not tagged as yaoi on MAL because its content does not fit that genre label. I know when Banana Fish first started airing, there were lots of talk about it being a yaoi show floating around because quite simply put, no one knew exactly what kind of content the anime had. However, at this point, most people have a clear understanding of what this anime is about and now the majority of people that claim Banana Fish is a yaoi anime are doing so with ill intent, as an insult towards the show and those who enjoy it. I know that's not your intention, but you're adding to a problem that actually exists because you're misinformed. |
MetaKiteNov 19, 2018 2:37 PM
jal90 said: I mean, it's 8.07 in MAL. Which is a really good rating for a seasonal while it's airing. Expect it to improve when the last episode airs, like it usually happens. That's fair. I really meant other websites other than MAL. Most anime websites or social media sites that post about anime aren't talking about the series that much. Which doesn't make sense since this anime season is pretty much garbage IMO |
| Oscar and Andre deserved better |
Loathsome said: And I'm sure you thought Shin Sekai Yori (another series which took time to rise in the ranks on MAL) was also made for fujoshi. The Banana Fish manga had lots of straight male fans too.its usually like this with animes made for fujoshi |
| Well, when I read "underrated" I took it as the Anime News Network definition. Meaning not watched as much but highly rated an should be watched more. I think the reason most are not watching this is because it is an amazon anime. And as much as people who are very loud here claim to love their illegal anime activities, I think a significant enough amount of users watch most or all of their anime legally enough to affect what shows are being watched most. If you compare this with other Amazon anime, you will see I am correct. |
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
Swagernator said: The show is gay sorry, and how in the hell is 8+ "underrated" lmao. The Anime News Network definition is highly rated by way lower popularity. And I like this definition because it uses math. Overrated anime would be like Sword Art Online which have very high popularity but a much lower score. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
Maneki-Mew said: Lunallae said: In general, first impressions for it are extremely deceiving. Its shoujo demographic tag also misleads people to think it is 'fujoshi bait.' But as time goes on, I'm beginning to realize that the most likely reason it was published in a shoujo magazine 30 years ago is because females would relate to Ash's history of sexual abuse much easier than males would. That could be unfortunately true. Tho you should assume that people are able to empathize with others without relating to them. There is some special and deeper understanding of situations and feelings you personally experienced first-hand. I won't deny that. Nonetheless, one of the beautiful side of fiction is the ability to interpret people's action and try to take a look in someone's mind, which works different than yours. Many people aren't able to do this and want force characters into a personality-shape and actions they want to see from them, but that shouldn't concern the author. Tl;dr: It would be great, if others try to empathize with experiences from people, who are different than themselves. You should expect from your audience that they are able to empathize and read people's action anyway. Definitely! That's what I love about fiction, but I still do think its relatability is the most likely reason why the target demographic is females rather than males. Of course it's visceral storytelling will also likely click more with females than males as well. |
Lunallae said: No, you're both wrong. That's not why it has a shojo label. It's because Yoshida-Sensei prefers to write for a female audience rather than males (you can interpret the reasons she gives why however you want). Link full of spoilers and her reasons below.Maneki-Mew said: That could be unfortunately true. Tho you should assume that people are able to empathize with others without relating to them. There is some special and deeper understanding of situations and feelings you personally experienced first-hand. I won't deny that. Nonetheless, one of the beautiful side of fiction is the ability to interpret people's action and try to take a look in someone's mind, which works different than yours. Many people aren't able to do this and want force characters into a personality-shape and actions they want to see from them, but that shouldn't concern the author. Tl;dr: It would be great, if others try to empathize with experiences from people, who are different than themselves. You should expect from your audience that they are able to empathize and read people's action anyway. Definitely! That's what I love about fiction, but I still do think its relatability is the most likely reason why the target demographic is females rather than males. Of course it's visceral storytelling will also likely click more with females than males as well. |
MetaKiteNov 20, 2018 2:47 PM
| Is this anime good? I've heard nothing but good things other than it's yaoi, but yaoi is lowkey hot so idgaf. |
 |
Izuma-_ said: It's very good. The manga is better (despite the dated art in the first 4 volumes) and neither of them are yaoi. It does have BL themes and a single kiss/not really a kiss though.Is this anime good? I've heard nothing but good things other than it's yaoi, but yaoi is lowkey hot so idgaf. |
MetaKite said: It's very good. The manga is better (despite the dated art in the first 4 volumes) and neither of them are yaoi. It does have BL themes and a single kiss/not really a kiss though. I'll watch it once I finish Aku no Hana. I suppose I could read the manga too |
|
| Anything that has to do with mafia or gangs will catch my eye. I found this browsing the 91 days recommendations and quickly binged the first 15 episodes out. Even though the cast is predominantly male, the relationships and everything going on felt like they could realistically happen |
Do you mind spoiler tagging or mentioning that that link has major spoilers for the ending? I read that interview way back and what I took from it was that Yoshida thinks that females are much more accepting of the media they consume. Which means, in her words, "anything goes" in a shoujo magazine. While that is the main reason Yoshida chose to publish Banana Fish as a shoujo, I don't think it's necessarily wrong to say that females in general would connect with the story and characters easier than males would. Part of that comes from the fact that females are probably more accepting, the other part comes from the fact that they can relate to it better. |
LunallaeNov 20, 2018 2:16 PM
Lunallae said: Fixed it and I misspoke to say you and @Maneki-Mew are wrong. More that she outright had a reason for the shojo label and it's not a speculation. I'm not disagreeing with you. My take away from the interview was that she believes boys are too judgemental to write for along with that you said about girls being more accepting. I can't say I disagree with that logic. We can see plenty cases here of men assuming it's yaoi and leaving it as that rather than seeing for themselves. Do you mind spoiler tagging or mentioning that that link has major spoilers for the ending? I read that interview way back and what I took from it was that Yoshida thinks that females are much more accepting of the media they consume. Which means, in her words, "anything goes" in a shoujo magazine. While that is the main reason Yoshida chose to publish Banana Fish as a shoujo, I don't think it's necessarily wrong to say that females in general would connect with the story and characters easier than males would. Part of that comes from the fact that females are probably more accepting, the other part comes from the fact that they can relate to it better. |
Maneki-Mew said: Oh, I can totally relate and why I do not consider myself a fujoshi at all. I had to ask in a forum once if these girls are friends with, let alone know any gay men IRL. It actually really bothers me that actual yaoi like Junjou Romantica that I consider crap has a higher score than Banana Fish. I read yaoi stories but JR has so many problematic plots and toxic couples because you know, "Rape is Love", I can't stomach it. I guess the only stories I can stomach that involve rape are the one that depict it for the horrible act it is. Sadly, many BL stories don't (I don't read some of the Sekaiichi Hatsukoi novels because of this). So to say the least, I get really annoyed when Banana Fish gets lumped in with those generic and very problematic yaoi series when it's not even BL either.Ah good, I didn't read the article and now I'm afraid of spoiler... but I believe you. xD Tbh, I also was sceptical at first, because someone told me that it's BL and I had numerous of bad flashbacks from bad BL OVAs and series. xD And the scores don't tell anything, especially not in these cases. Junjou Romantica also has a score around 8 and well, that thing... I have a female friend, who would jump at everything with gays, which I told that her is kinda cringey from my perspective tbh. This whole fetishizing is not that rare and all. I decided to give it a try, because I trusted the person's taste more. Also, it's studio Mappa. I didn't like Kakegurui at all, but on the other hand, I thought that Shoukoku no Altair (I don't know, why it didn't get more love too...), Yuri on Ice and In this Corner of the World were great. Also other people, who don't know anything about the anime: The title Banana Fish is pretty weird and it could be easily overseen, judging by the title alone. I heard Altair's adaptation wasn't the best. I know huge fans of the series that hate the anime. I have yet to watch it due to time constraints on my part. |
| I was thinking the same. This anime has been very captivating so far. |
 Bölvat es okkr, bróðir, bani em ek þinn orðinn; þat mun æ uppi; illr er dómr norna. -Hlöðskviða (The Battle of the Goths and Huns) |
| Kinda sad that some people avoid this (super amazing) anime |
| Signature removed.AGAIN. |
Maneki-Mew said: MetaKite said: Oh, I can totally relate and why I do not consider myself a fujoshi at all. I had to ask in a forum once if these girls are friends with, let alone know any gay men IRL. It actually really bothers me that actual yaoi like Junjou Romantica that I consider crap has a higher score than Banana Fish. I read yaoi stories but JR has so many problematic plots and toxic couples because you know, "Rape is Love", I can't stomach it. I guess the only stories I can stomach that involve rape are the one that depict it for the horrible act it is. Sadly, many BL stories don't (I don't read some of the Sekaiichi Hatsukoi novels because of this). So to say the least, I get really annoyed when Banana Fish gets lumped in with those generic and very problematic yaoi series when it's not even BL either. I heard Altair's adaptation wasn't the best. I know huge fans of the series that hate the anime. I have yet to watch it due to time constraints on my part. No, most of them aren't friends with gay guys, I can tell. xD Involving rape or a toxic couple (like on... Citrus or JR-level) isn't a problem per se, if the show isn't trying to tell you "look, so cute" at the same time. It has been the same for No. 6 and a few others, which aren't even tagged as BL, but some women and a few guys are like "oh no, not BL again" and some straight guys are like "I don't have anything against gays (if they are like that and not outrightly homophobic per se), BUT..." Well, I'm not that far in the manga (reading too many*cough*; could be), but I believe that many people dropped it at the first two, three episodes. To be honest I do have issues with how Banana Fish deals with rape, but not particularly because of fetishizing it, which it doesn't. Rather because it... makes light of it? At some point in the series it became so commonly used in the narrative and had so many comebacks that it was in the verge of exploitation, and the way they keep coming back to the sexual appeal of Ash, even making jokes with that, strikes me as tasteless. Not romanticizing or in any way forgiving of these acts. Just tasteless. I think it's a very different issue than those stories that romanticize toxic and abusive relationships, but it's an issue nonetheless. |
Maneki-Mew said: jal90 said: To be honest I do have issues with how Banana Fish deals with rape, but not particularly because of fetishizing it, which it doesn't. Rather because it... makes light of it? At some point in the series it became so commonly used in the narrative and had so many comebacks that it was in the verge of exploitation, and the way they keep coming back to the sexual appeal of Ash, even making jokes with that, strikes me as tasteless. Not romanticizing or in any way forgiving of these acts. Just tasteless. I think it's a very different issue than those stories that romanticize toxic and abusive relationships, but it's an issue nonetheless. Tbh, I thought that all of these things felt terribly realistic and natural for the kind of story it is. Ash is so much "used to" be harassed and raped that it became an almost common thing to deal with for him. Like people in forced prostitution, especially children growing up in such environment (and he was very young), are so broken that they just accept that all of these terrible acts are a part of their daily life. And I expected his offenders to make tasteless jokes and also many other people in his environment. Many others around him also didn't grow up in a too sheltered and warm environment, Eiji aside. I expected everyone to have a harsher personality and with a harsher way of treating others, speech and worldview. A prison etc. and a circle of criminals and people, who are involved in child pornography and other things, aren't this kind of welcoming environment and kind of people. I would think and feel completely different about that, if a story takes place in an ordinary school or something. Yes for him, not so much for those around. I was particularly put off at a joke Max made in one of this cour's episodes about the sex appeal of Ash, because I mean, Max is a good guy and there is not that excuse of moral distance some other tasteless comments have. It's this kind of stuff along with the overuse of rapey situations (the jail arc was a bit too much) what I think brings that seriousness down and makes it come off as something not well aware of its own thematic gravity that at times uses it as a mean to exploit for drama and visceral feelings. And yes this is still miles better than romanticizing abuse and the series does want to include the rejection of and overcoming sexual abuse as a key point of the character arc of Ash but I don't believe it's doing it completely well, particularly because at some points I think it fails to understand how serious this is. |
jal90 said: To be honest I do have issues with how Banana Fish deals with rape, but not particularly because of fetishizing it, which it doesn't. Rather because it... makes light of it? At some point in the series it became so commonly used in the narrative and had so many comebacks that it was in the verge of exploitation, and the way they keep coming back to the sexual appeal of Ash, even making jokes with that, strikes me as tasteless. Not romanticizing or in any way forgiving of these acts. Just tasteless. I think it's a very different issue than those stories that romanticize toxic and abusive relationships, but it's an issue nonetheless. jal90 said: Yes for him, not so much for those around. I was particularly put off at a joke Max made in one of this cour's episodes about the sex appeal of Ash, because I mean, Max is a good guy and there is not that excuse of moral distance some other tasteless comments have. It's this kind of stuff along with the overuse of rapey situations (the jail arc was a bit too much) what I think brings that seriousness down and makes it come off as something not well aware of its own thematic gravity that at times uses it as a mean to exploit for drama and visceral feelings. And yes this is still miles better than romanticizing abuse and the series does want to include the rejection of and overcoming sexual abuse as a key point of the character arc of Ash but I don't believe it's doing it completely well, particularly because at some points I think it fails to understand how serious this is. Do you mind elaborating on the exact moments that bothered you? I have my own issues with how Banana Fish uses rape in its narrative. Mainly how often its used in the first cour, especially with all the threats (even if I mentioned earlier on this thread why it's the way it is). But I don't think Banana Fish's usage is ever tasteless and I'm willing to explain why for each individual moment you had problems with. The jail arc got modified in the anime for the worse in my opinion. I think that early in the run, MAPPA actually didn't have a good handle on the material. They changed the material around, but for some reason, they still slavishly followed the manga and added in one instance of attempted rape because of that (essentially in the manga, the guy that roomed with Ash after Max changed rooms was Garvey and the person Ash confronts in the storeroom did not try to rape him). The trade-off in the anime was that Ash got fitting retribution on Garvey, a detail that the anime seems to be sticking to where the manga fails (all rapists getting punished for their crimes). But all in all, I can understand your grievances there since less instances would have been better, but I do think the message the anime sends is better than the manga's. As for that particular moment with Max you said you were put off by, is it the sexual jokes he was cracking in the mental hospital? If so, Max is still undergoing a character arc of his own. He doesn't know how heavy a topic this is to Ash because Ash has always put up a front in regards to it. Even when Ash points a gun at Max right after waking up, I think Max can understand why Ash is jumpy, but I don't think Max knows 100% its because of Ash's sexual trauma and not some other reason. However, the major defining moment for Max's fatherly relationship with Ash has yet to happen. Only then will we see how far Max has come in regards to this subject (this is assuming the anime does not cut this part out due to time constraints). |
| I find it disturbing that a lot of woman are watching this only for their BL fangirling. Banana Fish has more rings to it. The plot, the characters, the emotional development, the music and many more. I agree, op, it is terribly underrated. |
 |
WinterEnlighten said: I find it disturbing that a lot of woman are watching this only for their BL fangirling. Banana Fish has more rings to it. The plot, the characters, the emotional development, the music and many more. I agree, op, it is terribly underrated. That's a good way to put it too. I mean it's fine to ship Ash and Eiji because... However, to solely watch this for the BL feels so wrong. I can't say I haven't been one of those fangirls in the past so it's not like I don't get it, but yeah. It's odd to me. Even comparing it to Yuri on Ice is wrong. Not there's anything wrong with that anime because I did actually really enjoy it. But Banana fish isn't that at all. |
| Oscar and Andre deserved better |
Lunallae said: jal90 said: To be honest I do have issues with how Banana Fish deals with rape, but not particularly because of fetishizing it, which it doesn't. Rather because it... makes light of it? At some point in the series it became so commonly used in the narrative and had so many comebacks that it was in the verge of exploitation, and the way they keep coming back to the sexual appeal of Ash, even making jokes with that, strikes me as tasteless. Not romanticizing or in any way forgiving of these acts. Just tasteless. I think it's a very different issue than those stories that romanticize toxic and abusive relationships, but it's an issue nonetheless. jal90 said: Yes for him, not so much for those around. I was particularly put off at a joke Max made in one of this cour's episodes about the sex appeal of Ash, because I mean, Max is a good guy and there is not that excuse of moral distance some other tasteless comments have. It's this kind of stuff along with the overuse of rapey situations (the jail arc was a bit too much) what I think brings that seriousness down and makes it come off as something not well aware of its own thematic gravity that at times uses it as a mean to exploit for drama and visceral feelings. And yes this is still miles better than romanticizing abuse and the series does want to include the rejection of and overcoming sexual abuse as a key point of the character arc of Ash but I don't believe it's doing it completely well, particularly because at some points I think it fails to understand how serious this is. Do you mind elaborating on the exact moments that bothered you? I have my own issues with how Banana Fish uses rape in its narrative. Mainly how often its used in the first cour, especially with all the threats (even if I mentioned earlier on this thread why it's the way it is). But I don't think Banana Fish's usage is ever tasteless and I'm willing to explain why for each individual moment you had problems with. The jail arc got modified in the anime for the worse in my opinion. I think that early in the run, MAPPA actually didn't have a good handle on the material. They changed the material around, but for some reason, they still slavishly followed the manga and added in one instance of attempted rape because of that (essentially in the manga, the guy that roomed with Ash after Max changed rooms was Garvey and the person Ash confronts in the storeroom did not try to rape him). The trade-off in the anime was that Ash got fitting retribution on Garvey, a detail that the anime seems to be sticking to where the manga fails (all rapists getting punished for their crimes). But all in all, I can understand your grievances there since less instances would have been better, but I do think the message the anime sends is better than the manga's. As for that particular moment with Max you said you were put off by, is it the sexual jokes he was cracking in the mental hospital? If so, Max is still undergoing a character arc of his own. He doesn't know how heavy a topic this is to Ash because Ash has always put up a front in regards to it. Even when Ash points a gun at Max right after waking up, I think Max can understand why Ash is jumpy, but I don't think Max knows 100% its because of Ash's sexual trauma and not some other reason. However, the major defining moment for Max's fatherly relationship with Ash has yet to happen. Only then will we see how far Max has come in regards to this subject (this is assuming the anime does not cut this part out due to time constraints). Uhm, I don't think I have much else to say, specially after your and @Maneki-Mew's answer. You make good points and a good deal of my issues are vague enough to not make a compelling argument against your counterpoints. If I had to mention my problem for instance with that joke Max made, it would not be that Max makes that joke, not specifically. It is how the show frames it as something light and funny that I as a spectator should be laughing at. I can get when a character like him is insensitive because he doesn't know the full context, but we as an audience do and the series still intends to make us see it as a light and funny moment. And this is also why the problem is not with Ash and his personality, but on the way the series frames and makes use of the scenes. I don't expect Ash to react in a more serious or dramatic way to sexual assault, that is something expected with his character portrayal and sufficiently justified through the narrative. However when and how are the instances of sexual assault placed in the storyline, and the kind of emotion they want to provoke in the audience (which isn't necessarily the emotion that Ash is feeling at that moment. Attempted rape is enough of a shock element to have a strong dramatic effect in the viewer on its own and the series knows and takes advantage of that) is what bugs me and what in the case of that jail arc bothered me to the point of finding it a little too cheap and exploitative. When I say that the show is "tasteless" at this, I mean that it becomes too oblivious to the perspective of the victim, either letting the spectator indulge in the fun and light tones of a rather problematic joke or disconnecting the dramatic effect from how Ash really feels and is processing it. I think this is a bit complicated to get right, and with the amount of events related to sexual assault in this anime, it's only natural that the series wouldn't manage to get this emotional correspondence well in some of them. |
jal90 said: Maneki-Mew said: Tbh, I thought that all of these things felt terribly realistic and natural for the kind of story it is. Ash is so much "used to" be harassed and raped that it became an almost common thing to deal with for him. Like people in forced prostitution, especially children growing up in such environment (and he was very young), are so broken that they just accept that all of these terrible acts are a part of their daily life. And I expected his offenders to make tasteless jokes and also many other people in his environment. Many others around him also didn't grow up in a too sheltered and warm environment, Eiji aside. I expected everyone to have a harsher personality and with a harsher way of treating others, speech and worldview. A prison etc. and a circle of criminals and people, who are involved in child pornography and other things, aren't this kind of welcoming environment and kind of people. I would think and feel completely different about that, if a story takes place in an ordinary school or something. Yes for him, not so much for those around. I was particularly put off at a joke Max made in one of this cour's episodes about the sex appeal of Ash, because I mean, Max is a good guy and there is not that excuse of moral distance some other tasteless comments have. It's this kind of stuff along with the overuse of rapey situations (the jail arc was a bit too much) what I think brings that seriousness down and makes it come off as something not well aware of its own thematic gravity that at times uses it as a mean to exploit for drama and visceral feelings. And yes this is still miles better than romanticizing abuse and the series does want to include the rejection of and overcoming sexual abuse as a key point of the character arc of Ash but I don't believe it's doing it completely well, particularly because at some points I think it fails to understand how serious this is. I wouldn't say the way they use rape as a narrative is tasteless. Everyone deals with trauma differently and thus people react to other people's traumas differently. I personally have never been sexually assaulted but I have been both emotionally and physically abused. I, like Ash, over time had become very desensitized to trauma and when I did speak about it was always nonchalant. If I am nonchalant than it makes others not take it as seriously even though it's still serious. Ash still lives in this nightmare. It's why he barely sleeps and why Eiji just puts him at ease. |
| Oscar and Andre deserved better |
AnimeZ0id said: jal90 said: Yes for him, not so much for those around. I was particularly put off at a joke Max made in one of this cour's episodes about the sex appeal of Ash, because I mean, Max is a good guy and there is not that excuse of moral distance some other tasteless comments have. It's this kind of stuff along with the overuse of rapey situations (the jail arc was a bit too much) what I think brings that seriousness down and makes it come off as something not well aware of its own thematic gravity that at times uses it as a mean to exploit for drama and visceral feelings. And yes this is still miles better than romanticizing abuse and the series does want to include the rejection of and overcoming sexual abuse as a key point of the character arc of Ash but I don't believe it's doing it completely well, particularly because at some points I think it fails to understand how serious this is. I wouldn't say the way they use rape as a narrative is tasteless. Everyone deals with trauma differently and thus people react to other people's traumas differently. I personally have never been sexually assaulted but I have been both emotionally and physically abused. I, like Ash, over time had become very desensitized to trauma and when I did speak about it was always nonchalant. If I am nonchalant than it makes others not take it as seriously even though it's still serious. Ash still lives in this nightmare. It's why he barely sleeps and why Eiji just puts him at ease. Uhm, I don't disagree with this. I hope I made my point more clear with my post above. |
AnimeZ0id said: Even comparing it to Yuri on Ice is wrong. Not there's anything wrong with that anime because I did actually really enjoy it. But Banana fish isn't that at all. I agree too much. Banana Fish is nothing like Yuri!!! On Ice, neither from plot nor characters. I'm a yaoi reader too, but isn't it wrong to mark something as "lowly gay shit" even if it's quality ? That's what some people doing about Banana Fish right now, and some others are just misinterpreting it by saying it's JUST a yaoi show. It's neither of them, it's a real good adaptation of the 80's manga and overall a wonderful, emotional & quality show to check out. |
|
More topics from this board
Poll: » Banana Fish Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 )TheFreycook - Aug 8, 2018 |
67 |
by bubba460z
»»
May 5, 4:10 PM |
|
» Any differences?Mangahater - Apr 27 |
10 |
by MickeyMinaj
»»
Apr 29, 2:09 AM |
|
Poll: » Banana Fish Episode 24 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Dec 20, 2018 |
346 |
by carladepalabras
»»
Apr 25, 3:20 PM |
|
Poll: » Banana Fish Episode 22 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Dec 6, 2018 |
121 |
by matheoo41
»»
Apr 13, 5:55 PM |
|
Poll: » Banana Fish Episode 21 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - Nov 29, 2018 |
69 |
by matheoo41
»»
Apr 13, 5:41 PM |