Hypocritical Ideologies in the Western World

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NudeBear said:
I find it funny how feminism is always in the first line of attack in "what's wrong with the Western world" essays.

Maybe so, but I chose feminism because it's an easy example. I don't actually think feminism is inherently horrible-- with some refinement, it could be an extremely good thing in both theory and practice.

Oct 11, 2017 8:24 PM

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the extremist left and the extremist right are honestly the biggest scourges to ever rise politically in the past few years. first the far leftists and sjws, around 2013-2014, and nowadays, the far rightists. they want different things to some extent, but will employ the same methods to get it: verbal violence, physical violence, civil unrest, petty self victimization and blaming other groups for their inherently faulty extremism. i honestly fucking hate them both at this point, although honestly these days the alt right is almost worse.... these idiots will never practice what they preach and are a bunch of lunatic little hypocrites at the end of the day. extremism is a terrible thing, it polarizes cities, states, and countries, it makes people that once were able to civilly disagree or come to a consensus start acting like apathetic pricks, it encourages a hateful form of tribalism and groupthink. i'm just.... so done.

Oct 11, 2017 8:34 PM

#10

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Chris Rock already talked about this 20 years ago

It's a crab in a barrel mentality, everyone wants to be a victim or feel the need to be special and appreciated. While their being the victim they'll start to hate or belittle someone they can pick out move out of the way to make their themselves more important. There's only one group that is actually doing the real work and you need to find out who it is and support them.

Oct 12, 2017 6:05 AM

#11

KuroudoAkabane

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Hoppy said:

Swagernator said:
You forget blackwashing of white characters from Marvel movies.

There's also rampant whitewashing when it comes to live action adaptations of anime.

the fact that there shouldnt be a live action adaptation by the dip shit west to begin with

Oct 12, 2017 9:59 AM

#12

Firelord76

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Hoppy said:

Swagernator said:
You forget blackwashing of white characters from Marvel movies.

There's also rampant whitewashing when it comes to live action adaptations of anime.

Most anime franchises have already gotten Japanese live-action adaptations, sometimes several of them. Why does it matter if they then decide to give the movie rights to the US, and have them localize it?

Plus, most of these movies already suck ass in their original country, so is anything of value truly lost by this 'whitewashing' if it's pretty much guaranteed that the new movie will follow the same trend?

However, I don't think Japan truly cares about this. If it gives exposure to the original franchise, then it will have served its purpose as far as they're concerned.

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Oct 12, 2017 1:01 PM

#13

MorsPulchra

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Well the best example is one you've already used. But on a whole it is;

Groups that have a movement for an equal rights/equal opportunity and then they wave a flag to mark their individuality(and ironically segregation) as a group. They preach equality but all they really want is special treatment to suit their needs. A big one back when I was a teen was the LGBT community. I'd say they've mellowed out a bit themselves, but they have attached themselves to really shitty groups with the same kind of attitude as they had before(BLM, Feminazis etc).

The other one that I can think of, and it irks me every time, is the hypocrisy in Western propaganda media. The biggest one lately is Russia. They mess with the Ukraines politics and threaten a Russian naval base and then they call Russia out for being a bad guy for protecting it's interests. This outcry that the US media has every time Russia does something about how terrible they are even though the US does the exact same shit.

It's all really tiring, probably why I don't watch the news anymore.

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Oct 12, 2017 1:59 PM

#14

traed

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You must not be very observant if you think it's limited to the West. Politicians are politicians no matter where you go and any movement can be hijacked by the government it opposing groups trying to further divide it to make it not a threat and sometimes people just overcompensate for real problems or misidentify their root cause.

Oct 12, 2017 4:32 PM

#15

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traed said:
You must not be very observant if you think it's limited to the West. Politicians are politicians no matter where you go and any movement can be hijacked by the government it opposing groups trying to further divide it to make it not a threat and sometimes people just overcompensate for real problems or misidentify their root cause.

Of course, political corruption within the government and the people are never limited to the West. However, I say the "Western World" because I myself live in the Western World, I understand Western culture, ideologies and news better, and because I am more likely to be able to try and change conflict in the West (even if on an individualistic or subtle scale) than I am to change conflict in the East.

Oct 12, 2017 4:49 PM

#16

SpamuraiSensei

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Hoppy said:

Swagernator said:
You forget blackwashing of white characters from Marvel movies.

There's also rampant whitewashing when it comes to live action adaptations of anime.

Are there even a lot of good Asian American actors?

Oct 12, 2017 7:36 PM

#17

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In the United States specifically, every administration post-WWII has espoused the ideas of liberalism and democracy, but has since overthrown democratically elected leaders of other nation-states to install Fascist puppets to serve their own interests (although I believe Jimmy Carter might have never fired a shot. I'd have to double check though). America is also allied with Saudi 'same ideology as ISIS' Arabia, among others

Oct 17, 2017 1:54 PM

#18

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Can't think of anything more hypocritical than far-right ideologies in the West. I mean, funny how Neo-Nazis claim to represent western interests even though they hate pretty much everything about it.

Oct 17, 2017 3:21 PM

#19

149597871

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-Ouro- said:
Can't think of anything more hypocritical than far-right ideologies in the West. I mean, funny how Neo-Nazis claim to represent western interests even though they hate pretty much everything about it.

Yes, let's not forget that they are openly racist and intolerant but when you try to attack them they come up with stuff like: "Respect my views!" and "Free speech!". There's nothing more hypocritical than that.

Oct 17, 2017 3:36 PM

#20

sumixaM

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Hoppy said:

Swagernator said:
You forget blackwashing of white characters from Marvel movies.

There's also rampant whitewashing when it comes to live action adaptations of anime.

There's rampant whitewashing in general, not just with anime

Oct 17, 2017 3:37 PM

#21

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kawaii96desu said:

Their whole schtick with "Free Speech" is nothing more than just an excuse. Fascists like them only use it as a means to an end, or as a defense for their horrible beliefs.

Oct 17, 2017 3:49 PM

#22

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ixaa said:

NudeBear said:
I find it funny how feminism is always in the first line of attack in "what's wrong with the Western world" essays.

It defies nature for the sake of "muh feelings". Females don't want to be "liberated" from men, but if they're expected to believe that, they'll claim to believe it. Between a strong man who puts her in her place, and a weak man who lets her walk all over him, which do you think a sane female will choose?

Liberals (which includes neo-conservatives and anyone who believes in deconstructing race/culture) are the ones who hate everything about the west. My ancestors have lived in the west for thousands of years, and their lineage has been entrusted to me. I'd like to add that skinheads are not "Nazis" (National Socialists), and would be treated as scum by real Nazis. They're nothing but low-life thugs. The original Nazi view was that everyone should be proud of their own race. There were Nazis who were African, East-Asian, Indian, etc. The story about Adolf Hitler refusing to shake the hand of Jesse Owens because he was black is a hilarious myth, because Jesse Owen's best friend was a German Nazi, and Jesse said something along the lines of "not all the precious metals from my trophies are worth as much as my friendship with that man".

I find it ironic you make the statements you do while being a fan of The Brotherhood of Steel and Maxson - their opposition towards mutants is an obvious metaphor.

Oct 17, 2017 4:32 PM

#23

Fvlminatvs

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ixaa said:
... they don't realize that school and college ultimately yields better results than early careers.

You may want to rethink this before you spend the rest of your life as an indentured servant due to your school loans.

Oct 17, 2017 4:38 PM

#24

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@Faederwulf

I never made the claim that skinheads were Neo-Nazis. There are most undoubtedly Neo-Nazis which are skinheads, but not all skinheads are Nazis proper.

And yet, the Nazis persecuted other races who they deemed inferior. That's hardly being promoting everyone being proud of their own race. They exalted a couple of races (like the Japanese) but hated others. They were hardly egalitarians when talking about racial issues.

In regards to the whole Fallout thing, I mostly have a BOS set because of their iconography, and I find them to be an interesting faction, even if I didn't side with them in Fallout 4.

Oct 17, 2017 4:47 PM

#25

deg

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i got no idea aside from fighting for equality becomes fighting for supremacy but that is just extremism anyway

and also i do not get why cultural appropriation is a bad thing? wikipedia explains it like mixing of cultures and you cannot stop that especially on a multiculturalism country like USA

Oct 17, 2017 4:57 PM

#26

Stripes

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I guess the best one I see all over twitter is the form of making mistakes and not being able to educate and apologize for it. Yet people don't learn unless they do make mistakes and in turn will want to be educated. You're practically shamed out until the end of time, this hits the celebrity world HARD.

Granted I do think certain "jokes" and use of the "n word" should be common sense but I feel like people should have room to grow and become better. Why are we hindering people in this fashion.

Swagernator said:
You forget blackwashing of white characters from Marvel movies.

Adding diversity versus taking away diversity. For shame.

Oct 17, 2017 5:34 PM

#27

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American democracy/liberalism is the obvious choice. The country has a long history of toppling foreign governments but now everyone's freaking out over Russia supposedly hacking the election. Hillary Clinton even compared it to 9/11.

Also I can kind of see what @-Ouro- is getting when he says Western far-right ideologies are hypocritical even though I don't entirely agree. I wouldn't say that the far-right as a whole is guilty of it but I can definitely see it in the alt-right and the odd Nazi LARPer. In the alt-right's case I think it's more because they don't really have a coherent ideology. They just care about their ethnicity and even then they only care about the genetic component, not the culture behind it (French, British, German, etc.). One moment they're talking about muh Western civilization and muh tradition and the next moment they bash Christianity and support abortion.

Oct 17, 2017 5:43 PM

#28

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@Gholy

I do kinda get what you're meaning in this case. I guess it depends on which Alt-Right you're referring to. In the case of people like Richard Spencer, his brand of the Alternative Right is basically white nationalism attempting to be mainstream, even though him going "Hail Victory" or generally saying a lot of racist BS kinda hampers his attempts at going "mainstream". Though from what you're describing, the alt-right are pretty much made up of opportunists who basically appropriate as much "Western" imagery as they can with little consideration.

Case in point, I've seen some members use a lot of Roman imagery. I find that very ironic, given how Rome was incredibly racially diverse.

Oct 17, 2017 5:55 PM

#29

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@-Ouro-
When I say alt-right I purely mean Richard Spencer & co., not the more radical groups which are explicitly fascist because they hate the shit out of the alt-right. I actually kind of feel sorry for Nazis and other far-right groups who get lumped in with the alt-right because it's such a shitshow especially with Richard "Not the face!" Spencer in charge.

WE WUZ ROME
I find that funny because a lot of them don't even consider Meds white but use Roman and Greek imagery.

Oct 17, 2017 6:01 PM

#30

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@Gholy

Ahhh, I'm sorry for the confusion.

It's kinda weird how they hate each other, yet they do share a good amount of similarities. I was under the impression that they would get along, given how they ultimately have similar goals in mind.

It's additionally ironic when looking back at Roman history, Caesar allowed most of the tribes he assimilated to retain their culture just as long as they swore fealty to Rome, and if there's one thing that the alt-right hates, it's other cultures. Though that's not to say that everything was swell culturally during Caesar's regime of course, but still.

Oct 17, 2017 6:02 PM

#31

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Fvlminatvs said:

ixaa said:
... they don't realize that school and college ultimately yields better results than early careers.

You may want to rethink this before you spend the rest of your life as an indentured servant due to your school loans.

I misstate. Better opportunities is a more valid argument. However, there is still an undeniable social attachment to college, and most parents would want their children to go to college if not for the high price.

Oct 17, 2017 6:10 PM

#32

Fvlminatvs

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ixaa said:
I misstate. Better opportunities is a more valid argument. However, there is still an undeniable social attachment to college, and most parents would want their children to go to college if not for the high price.

It is rapidly becoming the case that if you want a better career then it is only worth it if you choose VERY SPECIFIC majors, as the majority of the career paths and majors these days will saddle you with too much debt. University in the United States has become a business, unfortunately.

Frankly, I know more people without college degrees who have zero debt and more disposable income than I know people WITH degrees.

Oct 17, 2017 6:29 PM

#33

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-Ouro- said:
@Faederwulf

I never made the claim that skinheads were Neo-Nazis. There are most undoubtedly Neo-Nazis which are skinheads, but not all skinheads are Nazis proper.

And yet, the Nazis persecuted other races who they deemed inferior. That's hardly being promoting everyone being proud of their own race. They exalted a couple of races (like the Japanese) but hated others. They were hardly egalitarians when talking about racial issues.

In regards to the whole Fallout thing, I mostly have a BOS set because of their iconography, and I find them to be an interesting faction, even if I didn't side with them in Fallout 4.

I'm aware you never made that claim, I was making a distinction. Although the Nazis were by no means egalitarians (why would any sane person be? No two people or races are "equal", because equal by definition means sameness, and each person and race is unique), whether they persecuted other races depends on your definition of persecution. There were hundreds of thousands of Jews and mischlings (mixed Jew/Europeans) within the Reich that had citizenship the same as everyone else, many held high positions such as military generals. As for the holocaust, that can be debunked easily with simple science.

Oct 17, 2017 6:36 PM

#34

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Faederwulf said:

Are you seriously implying that the Holocaust didn't exist?

Oct 17, 2017 6:44 PM

#35

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@Faederwulf

But that makes very little sense rhetorically. The Nazis frequently persecuted Jews even before the Holocaust happened, and in their propaganda, they regularly featured anti-semitic caricatures. It seems incredibly strange for the Nazis to simultaneously vilify Jews while (according to you) having them in their ranks. So why the doublethink of "the Holocaust didn't happen but Hitler was right about the Jews" anyway? It seems quite contradictory.

@ixaa

He's not exactly implying it, he's outright stating it.

Oct 17, 2017 6:53 PM

#36

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We should table the fact the goal of egalitarianism, in so far as I'm aware, is striving for 1) equality of opportunity and 2) equal protection under the law. Equality of outcome and preferential judicial treatment is not something I endorse

Oct 17, 2017 7:00 PM

#37

Zelev

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"Christians" elected someone like Donald Trump. How fascinating.

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...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th.

Oct 17, 2017 7:13 PM

#38

NudeBear

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whether they persecuted other races depends on your definition of persecution.

Holy shit that made me laugh out loud. Some people on this site are truly amazing.

@Faederwulf I'm curious, what sort of "simple science" debunks the holocaust?

Oct 17, 2017 7:40 PM

#39

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-Ouro- said:
@Faederwulf

But that makes very little sense rhetorically. The Nazis frequently persecuted Jews even before the Holocaust happened, and in their propaganda, they regularly featured anti-semitic caricatures. It seems incredibly strange for the Nazis to simultaneously vilify Jews while (according to you) having them in their ranks. So why the doublethink of "the Holocaust didn't happen but Hitler was right about the Jews" anyway? It seems quite contradictory.

@ixaa

He's not exactly implying it, he's outright stating it.

It doesn't matter what makes sense rhetorically, because rhetoric is not fact, it's presentation. Such a statement implies you'll believe a lie so long as it's wrapped up in a nice bow. For whatever reason/s, many Jews decided to join the Nazis. Perhaps out of genuinely agreement with Nazi policies, perhaps out of self interest, but regardless, this is admitted by Neo-Nazi and pro-Jewish/Jewish sources alike.
https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/as-many-as-150000-jews-served-in-hitlers-military/
http://www.jewishmag.com/158mag/hitler_jewish_soldiers/hitler_jewish_soldiers.htm

How is that doublethink? It's one thing to say that a race is (by majority, whether through cultural/circumstantial or racial means) crooked, another thing altogether to say that a race should be genocided.

ixaa said:

Faederwulf said:

Are you seriously implying that the Holocaust didn't exist?

Jews who tell the truth about the holocaust:

Oct 17, 2017 7:45 PM

#40

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NudeBear said:

whether they persecuted other races depends on your definition of persecution.

Holy shit that made me laugh out loud. Some people on this site are truly amazing.

@Faederwulf I'm curious, what sort of "simple science" debunks the holocaust?

Oct 17, 2017 8:00 PM

#41

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-Ouro- said:
@Gholy

Ahhh, I'm sorry for the confusion.

It's kinda weird how they hate each other, yet they do share a good amount of similarities. I was under the impression that they would get along, given how they ultimately have similar goals in mind.

They look pretty similar on the surface since they have similar views on race and Jews and also use the same memes.
The alt-right dislikes them because they think they're tryhard purity spiralers and they don't want to be associated with Nazism. The rest of the far-right dislikes the alt-right because they see them as racist liberals and whigger nationalists who don't understand nationalism. Some of them also take issue with Richard Spencer's subtle anti-Christianity.

It's additionally ironic when looking back at Roman history, Caesar allowed most of the tribes he assimilated to retain their culture just as long as they swore fealty to Rome, and if there's one thing that the alt-right hates, it's other cultures. Though that's not to say that everything was swell culturally during Caesar's regime of course, but still.

I'm not at all that knowledgeable on the Roman empire but I'll take your word for it. Either way it's obvious that Rome wasn't exactly an alt-right all-huwhite utopia.

Oct 17, 2017 8:25 PM

#42

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@Faederwulf

Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows — at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example — as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews. -Adolf Hitler

Clearly, the sign of someone who loves Jews. A number of Jews in the Wehrmacht doesn't dispel the Holocaust in of itself. Even though this excerpt was held during 1922, it is clearly a sign of Hitler's rabid anti-semitism and his hatred of the Jews. It would seem quite strange for someone who did not hate the Jews to say this about the Jews, no?

It's pretty clear that your Holocaust Denial exists only to make a totalitarian fascist look good, which is quite perplexing on many levels since Hitler was an utterly terrible leader. And the Holocaust denial in of itself is quite reductive, seeing as you've cited David Irving, who is generally discredited by most modern historians and is an avid Hitler apologist who thinks that the Jews were responsible for the war, rather than Hitler (who was the unambiguous instigator).

Oct 17, 2017 8:26 PM

#43

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@Gholy

This begs the question then: If they don't want to be associated with Nazis, then why do they pull a lot of the same rhetoric and imagery from the Nazis?

I've been reading SPQR fairly recently, which is a pretty good book about Ancient Rome.

Oct 17, 2017 8:51 PM

#44

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-Ouro- said:
@Gholy

This begs the question then: If they don't want to be associated with Nazis, then why do they pull a lot of the same rhetoric and imagery from the Nazis?

I'm not too sure about that myself. I think they're anti-Nazism is genuine (muh purity spiraling, muh optics) but they also borrow a lot from them on race and use semi-ironic Nazi memes.

I've been reading SPQR fairly recently, which is a pretty good book about Ancient Rome.

That sounds interesting. Does it cover both the republic and the empire?

Oct 17, 2017 9:46 PM

#45

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-Ouro- said:
@Faederwulf

Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows — at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example — as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews. -Adolf Hitler

Clearly, the sign of someone who loves Jews. A number of Jews in the Wehrmacht doesn't dispel the Holocaust in of itself. Even though this excerpt was held during 1922, it is clearly a sign of Hitler's rabid anti-semitism and his hatred of the Jews. It would seem quite strange for someone who did not hate the Jews to say this about the Jews, no?

It's pretty clear that your Holocaust Denial exists only to make a totalitarian fascist look good, which is quite perplexing on many levels since Hitler was an utterly terrible leader. And the Holocaust denial in of itself is quite reductive, seeing as you've cited David Irving, who is generally discredited by most modern historians and is an avid Hitler apologist who thinks that the Jews were responsible for the war, rather than Hitler (who was the unambiguous instigator).

Again, you've managed to use mainly rhetoric, with the exception of that fabricated evidence.
You can rant at me and call me everything under the sun, or state whatever modern view that is most established, but it only proves you have no argument.

The so called "gas chambers" being unfeasible for execution is easily noticeable, even a child could point out some of the flaws. A flimsy wooden door and windows in a gas chamber. Seriously? Not only could anyone easily escape, the gas would leak out. The lighting in the chamber was unprotected and would have caused an explosion. These efficient Germans wouldn't have built something so poorly designed. Zyklon B is a chemical used for killing lice. Many did indeed die of typhus from the lice, and from starvation after the allies bombed supply lines.

Oct 17, 2017 9:54 PM

#46

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6 million people of a certain group dead from precision targeting stated in various espousals in the span of several years is categorically genocide, regardless of who may choose to make a decision out of self-preservation or other motives

Oct 17, 2017 10:10 PM

#47

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@Gholy

Yeah, it covers both the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire in general.

Oct 17, 2017 10:15 PM

#48

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@Faederwulf

I suspected that you would say that the evidence was "fabricated."

If you are wondering why I am attacking you through rhetorical means, it is that Neo-Nazis do not care at all about facts. They mostly care about presenting themselves as factual, when in reality they only care about looking the part, as rhetoric is their only tool they have, seeing as how most credible scholars and historians have thoroughly debunked Neo-Nazi claims in the past.

You claim that the German's "efficiency" wouldn't have let such a "blunder" go through. Yet the Germans themselves invested in several impractical military projects that were a waste of resources and highly costly, not to mention ineffective. It is strange for you to claim this when yet the historical reality suggests something else entirely.

And in regards to the doors for the gas chambers, they were sealed for gas.

_Sofi_Oct 17, 2017 11:10 PM

Oct 17, 2017 10:20 PM

#49