New
Jan 2, 9:58 PM
#51
To me, the main difference between a casual and a tourist is their attitude about anime. A casual just sort of watches a few popular anime every now and then and doesn't really presume to be an expert. A tourist is someone who just started watching anime 6 months ago and treats it like a trend/identity to latch on to and pretend like they're experts about, when everyone around them knows they'll stop watching anime in a few months when they discover a new trend. A tourist pretends like they aren't a tourist. A casual doesn't really care. |
Jan 2, 10:11 PM
#52
It's just that when someone says something so blatantly wrong about something, there are only three explanations: 1: They're blinded by their political ideology (The "culture war" explanation) 2: They know they're wrong, but they're lying for some sort of gain (The "grifting" explanation) 3: They simply have no idea of what they're talking about, but they're not malicious beyond that (The "tourist" explanation) So, if something, being called a tourist when you fuck up hard is the best of the three. |
Jan 2, 10:13 PM
#53
Because they aren`t casuals, they are a breed of the Karen genre. |
Jan 2, 10:17 PM
#54
yep, it's pretty braindead but then you look at the people who use this term and can't even be surprised anymore. the cornball alliance. |
Jan 2, 10:31 PM
#55
because casual and tourist aren't interchangeable labels, casuals are just that, they're people who watch anime from time to time, don't make a big deal out of it, they're really chill and I actually prefer being friends with anime casual than hardcore otakus despite being a degenerate weeb myself, while tourists on the other hand are usually new to the hobby, they come in, complain and demand changes to suit their horrible taste and then leave everything worse than it was before. like a tourist going to Hawaii, leaving trash all over the beach or to Rome leaving graffiti all over the Colosseum. |
Jan 2, 11:30 PM
#56
Reply to Lucifrost
@epidemia78
It's so nice to see someone sane posting a Rozen Maiden GIF for once, if you know what I mean.
It's so nice to see someone sane posting a Rozen Maiden GIF for once, if you know what I mean.
Lucifrost said: It's so nice to see someone sane posting a Rozen Maiden GIF for once, if you know what I mean. I love Rozen Maiden. It's a beautiful example of early 2000s anime (my favorite era). Shame that it's been turned into a meme. |
Jan 2, 11:38 PM
#57
The term "tourist" is not exclusive to anime but it can refer to any kind of fandom or hobby. Most people I see who use the term outside of anime refer with it to people who come into the hobby and demand that it is changed so that they can feel more included. While being open to change and inviting new people is a commendable attitude, changes always come with the risk of undermining what makes the hobby what it is. If a hobby starts catering to literally everyone, it becomes for no-one because there is nothing left what two people of the hobby share in common. The "tourist" analogy is referring to the stereotypical person who travels to another country and expects everyone to accommodate them while not caring about the local customs. I don't really use the term for myself, but I think it fits quite well. Being a tourist in that sense is not necessarily defined by if you're new to the fandom or hobby but by your attitude. Anime and "tourists" is a difficult topic in my eyes, because of how diverse anime fandoms are. A casual anime watcher who sticks to casual topics is not a tourist, they only become a tourist if they enter specialized fandoms within anime that are more niche (or just "sub-fandoms") and demand that they become normal. |
Jan 2, 11:42 PM
#58
I tour the internet and watch anime. |
Jan 2, 11:52 PM
#59
"Anime "tourist" is the stupidest term I've ever heard." But: 1. It is used in other fandoms too, so this fandom here is not to blame for it. Just internet lingo. 2. Kind of describes the phenomena - noobs coming and starting to boss around, also being quite disrespectful towards the anime creators. "Why not just call them casuals?" Because tourists != casuals. Those are different groups of people. "and censorship sucks" But it does suck...like would the OP prefer watching the chinese localized version of DanDaDan? |
alshuJan 2, 11:58 PM
Jan 3, 12:19 AM
#60
never heard this term but maybe that means i'm an "anime tourist" going based off your thread yea it makes way more sense to just call them a casual anime fan lol |
Jan 3, 12:25 AM
#61
incompatible said: it makes way more sense to just call them a casual anime fan The casuals are quite experienced and quite respectful towards anime...the tourists aren't. |
Jan 3, 12:26 AM
#62
Reply to alshu
incompatible said:
it makes way more sense to just call them a casual anime fan
it makes way more sense to just call them a casual anime fan
The casuals are quite experienced and quite respectful towards anime...the tourists aren't.
@alshu ah okay, i see what you mean now. |
Jan 3, 4:20 AM
#63
It's not a stupid term. You're stupid if you don't understand how accurate this term is. Tourists will watch a few animes, post their retarded leftist opinions about what anime should be like, then they will go back to whatever they were doing before and not touch anime for months or years. That's basically what tourism is. You visit a country, stay there for a short time, then come back to your own country and complain that you do not agree with XYZ local customs of the country you visited. You're a fucking tourist so shut the fuck up about what is considered a norm in other countries. Now take the same idea and use it for anime, gaming or any other hobby. Tourists are fucking cancer and their opinions are trash. |
Jan 3, 5:32 AM
#64
In my understanding anime tourists are usually visitors who only watched a few shows and realize there are things they hate about them, but instead of leaving it at that, they start attacking these things and the people who like it, and the gatekeepers are the ones who defend against these attacks. |
DesuMaiden said: Nobody resembles me physically because I don't even physically exist. |
Jan 3, 8:51 AM
#65
Reply to thewiru
It's just that when someone says something so blatantly wrong about something, there are only three explanations:
1: They're blinded by their political ideology (The "culture war" explanation)
2: They know they're wrong, but they're lying for some sort of gain (The "grifting" explanation)
3: They simply have no idea of what they're talking about, but they're not malicious beyond that (The "tourist" explanation)
So, if something, being called a tourist when you fuck up hard is the best of the three.
1: They're blinded by their political ideology (The "culture war" explanation)
2: They know they're wrong, but they're lying for some sort of gain (The "grifting" explanation)
3: They simply have no idea of what they're talking about, but they're not malicious beyond that (The "tourist" explanation)
So, if something, being called a tourist when you fuck up hard is the best of the three.
thewiru said: They simply have no idea of what they're talking about, but they're not malicious beyond that (The "tourist" explanation) Whatever happened to calling such a person an ignoramus? |
その目だれの目? |
Jan 3, 9:07 AM
#66
I enjoy anime. However, I think tourism is a waste of time and money. Whether it is anime tourism or some other form of tourism. |
Jan 3, 9:25 AM
#67
Reply to Commit_Crime
@deg thanks Deg, I will start identifying as anime immigrant
@Commit_Crime be careful who you share this information with or you might get deported ToT |
Jan 3, 10:39 AM
#68
Reply to Commit_Crime
@deg thanks Deg, I will start identifying as anime immigrant
IN MYANIMELIST FORUMS, THEY'RE EATING THE DOGS, THE PEOPLE THAT CAME IN, THEY'RE EATING THE CATS, THEY'RE EATING THE PETS OF THE PEOPLE THAT BROWSE THERE, AND THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENING ON OUR WEBSITE |
Yesterday, 3:35 AM
#69
Reply to epidemia78
Sounds like something a filthy anime TOURIST would say!
I've got my eye on you, OP. I know you're here to make my anime woke and I wont stand for it.
I've got my eye on you, OP. I know you're here to make my anime woke and I wont stand for it.
@epidemia78 does making anime woke mean that we stop oversexualising women in shows where it has nothing to do with the plot? if yes, then i think im pro making anime more woke xD |
Yesterday, 3:36 AM
#70
they should make solo leveling woke, because when i watch it i freaking fall asleep!!!!!! |
Yesterday, 7:06 AM
#71
Reply to Wrathberry84
@epidemia78
does making anime woke mean that we stop oversexualising women in shows where it has nothing to do with the plot? if yes, then i think im pro making anime more woke xD
does making anime woke mean that we stop oversexualising women in shows where it has nothing to do with the plot? if yes, then i think im pro making anime more woke xD
Wrathberry84 said: does making anime woke mean that we stop oversexualising women in shows where it has nothing to do with the plot? if yes, then i think im pro making anime more woke xD Wokified female characters are intentionally designed to be unappealing to heterosexual males. It's their way of punishing us for existing. While I personally am not a fan of extreme lewdness, I do find anime girls to be enchantingly beautiful. In a woke world, all of her charm would be stripped away and my dearest Kobato would be made fat and ugly and gay. |
Yesterday, 7:36 AM
#72
Reply to Commit_Crime
@deg thanks Deg, I will start identifying as anime immigrant
@Commit_Crime We have to protect our daughterus from anime rapefugees! |
Yesterday, 7:40 AM
#73
Reply to Auron
@Auron there were no jobs in casual discussion so I came to procrastinate into anime discussion. This is the definition of brain drain... |
Yesterday, 9:51 AM
#74
Reply to epidemia78
Wrathberry84 said:
does making anime woke mean that we stop oversexualising women in shows where it has nothing to do with the plot? if yes, then i think im pro making anime more woke xD
does making anime woke mean that we stop oversexualising women in shows where it has nothing to do with the plot? if yes, then i think im pro making anime more woke xD
Wokified female characters are intentionally designed to be unappealing to heterosexual males. It's their way of punishing us for existing. While I personally am not a fan of extreme lewdness, I do find anime girls to be enchantingly beautiful. In a woke world, all of her charm would be stripped away and my dearest Kobato would be made fat and ugly and gay.
@epidemia78 bro, the people who say women are beign uglified are just so porn engrossed they dont even know what the average person looks like anymore |
This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
Yesterday, 9:57 AM
#75
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@epidemia78
bro, the people who say women are beign uglified are just so porn engrossed they dont even know what the average person looks like anymore
bro, the people who say women are beign uglified are just so porn engrossed they dont even know what the average person looks like anymore
@LSSJ_Gaming Many of these folks also say Rachel Zegler is ugly. I mean granted, she does not look good in some of the still images as Snow White, but in all honesty that's a skill issue with production as a whole. She does not look good if her hair is obscured, but that is true for a vast majority of people. Plus, if you want to be honest, Snow White is not even the most attractive Disney Princess by a long shot. |
Auroraloose's Aurorasimp |
Yesterday, 10:02 AM
#76
Reply to PeripheralVision
@LSSJ_Gaming
Many of these folks also say Rachel Zegler is ugly.
I mean granted, she does not look good in some of the still images as Snow White, but in all honesty that's a skill issue with production as a whole. She does not look good if her hair is obscured, but that is true for a vast majority of people. Plus, if you want to be honest, Snow White is not even the most attractive Disney Princess by a long shot.
Many of these folks also say Rachel Zegler is ugly.
I mean granted, she does not look good in some of the still images as Snow White, but in all honesty that's a skill issue with production as a whole. She does not look good if her hair is obscured, but that is true for a vast majority of people. Plus, if you want to be honest, Snow White is not even the most attractive Disney Princess by a long shot.
PeripheralVision said: Plus, if you want to be honest, Snow White is not even the most attractive Disney Princess by a long shot. Yoshiyuki Tomino called her the most attractive. |
その目だれの目? |
Yesterday, 10:19 AM
#77
Reply to epidemia78
Wrathberry84 said:
does making anime woke mean that we stop oversexualising women in shows where it has nothing to do with the plot? if yes, then i think im pro making anime more woke xD
does making anime woke mean that we stop oversexualising women in shows where it has nothing to do with the plot? if yes, then i think im pro making anime more woke xD
Wokified female characters are intentionally designed to be unappealing to heterosexual males. It's their way of punishing us for existing. While I personally am not a fan of extreme lewdness, I do find anime girls to be enchantingly beautiful. In a woke world, all of her charm would be stripped away and my dearest Kobato would be made fat and ugly and gay.
@epidemia78 Bro people are whining about Ciri from Witcher 4 being ugly :skull: This is all a bunch of nonsense. They themselves are probably uglier than all the characters they're complaining about. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Yesterday, 11:05 AM
#78
Yesterday, 12:28 PM
#79
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@epidemia78
bro, the people who say women are beign uglified are just so porn engrossed they dont even know what the average person looks like anymore
bro, the people who say women are beign uglified are just so porn engrossed they dont even know what the average person looks like anymore
@LSSJ_Gaming This will likely offend all sides, but I still don't understand why this "uglification" conspiracy started around a decade ago since, from my point of view, western games were ALWAYS ugly, for like... four decades. People will make videos about "muh uglification", and then when I ask them which age they consider "the golden age of vidya"... it's an age where I already considered western games ugly. I guess I just really hate realism and "Hooters bodytypes" while preferring stylization and bishoujo. |
12 hours ago
#80
Poser is x1000000000 better at describing this phenomena than "tourist". IDK why my generation felt like they had to make another term for something that already existed. Reject Modernity, Embrace tradition. |
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
12 hours ago
#81
Reply to thewiru
@LSSJ_Gaming
This will likely offend all sides, but I still don't understand why this "uglification" conspiracy started around a decade ago since, from my point of view, western games were ALWAYS ugly, for like... four decades.
People will make videos about "muh uglification", and then when I ask them which age they consider "the golden age of vidya"... it's an age where I already considered western games ugly.
I guess I just really hate realism and "Hooters bodytypes" while preferring stylization and bishoujo.
This will likely offend all sides, but I still don't understand why this "uglification" conspiracy started around a decade ago since, from my point of view, western games were ALWAYS ugly, for like... four decades.
People will make videos about "muh uglification", and then when I ask them which age they consider "the golden age of vidya"... it's an age where I already considered western games ugly.
I guess I just really hate realism and "Hooters bodytypes" while preferring stylization and bishoujo.
@thewiru I honestly prefer a few "meh" looking women in games over the piss green palette from the XB360/PS3 generation. One thing got worse but a lot others got way better IMO |
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
12 hours ago
#82
Reply to GokaiKing
@thewiru I honestly prefer a few "meh" looking women in games over the piss green palette from the XB360/PS3 generation. One thing got worse but a lot others got way better IMO
@GokaiKing Yeah, "brown and bloom" era SUCKED. I still do not understand how for a full generation, games and movies gaslit themselves into thinking that "no colors = realistic" when you could just... look out of your window. |
12 hours ago
#83
Reply to thewiru
@GokaiKing
Yeah, "brown and bloom" era SUCKED.
I still do not understand how for a full generation, games and movies gaslit themselves into thinking that "no colors = realistic" when you could just... look out of your window.
Yeah, "brown and bloom" era SUCKED.
I still do not understand how for a full generation, games and movies gaslit themselves into thinking that "no colors = realistic" when you could just... look out of your window.
@thewiru I also kinda stopped caring about this when I saw people say SoMi from the CyPu2077 expansion looked bad/woke/*insert buzzword here* THIS FUCKING SOMI Same with Witcher 4 trailer Ciri. Some people either are blind or too invested in the grift disguised as a culture war |
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
11 hours ago
#84
Reply to GokaiKing
@thewiru I also kinda stopped caring about this when I saw people say SoMi from the CyPu2077 expansion looked bad/woke/*insert buzzword here*
THIS FUCKING SOMI
Same with Witcher 4 trailer Ciri. Some people either are blind or too invested in the grift disguised as a culture war
THIS FUCKING SOMI
Same with Witcher 4 trailer Ciri. Some people either are blind or too invested in the grift disguised as a culture war
GokaiKing said: Same with Witcher 4 trailer Ciri. Some people either are blind or too invested in the grift disguised as a culture war I have a quote (That I can't remember where I got from) that is essentially "Those who go out hunting for witches tend to find them". To get cured from this type of thing is like getting cured from the effects of crack, the first (And most important) step is to... stop smoking crack (In this case, to stop watching Asmongold's reaction to the reaction to the reaction to the reaction of the reaction) and similar stuff. You should challenge any person to just stop for 1-2 months and they magically see that more than half of their problems don't actually exist. |
11 hours ago
#85
Why not stop beeing butthurt if it's either "tourist" or "casual" when you know they actually mean the same thing?^^ |
11 hours ago
#86
Agreed. But I think a lot of terms people use to describe others they see as beneath them in some way are dumb. I could spend all my time ranting about censorship and unnecessary changes as much as anyone else if I felt inclined to do so, but I'm not going to give someone shit for having different preferences, unless they're actively hostile towards others about it. There's things I'd prefer not to see too, so it'd be hypocritical for me to slap a label on someone just because they don't want to see anime tiddies. I will however poke fun at people going into clearly fanservice heavy shows expecting there to not be a lot of fanservice though. I'll own up to that. |
FanofAction11 hours ago
11 hours ago
#87
"Tourist" is a meaningless smear that boils down to "someone with opinions preferences I disagree with." Because apparently you can watch thousands of anime over a decade or more, but if you watch anything dubbed for non-disability reasons, that's all canceled out and you're suddenly a "tourist"? Please. |
11 hours ago
#88
@LSSJ_Gaming I'm sorry but that sounds like a bigoted comment. What, one can't appreciate female beauty without being labeled and shamed as a porn addict? Besides, most videogame and anime characters aren't "average people". They're androids and ninjas and elves and shit. @Deathko Sure, there is a lot of overreacting in regards to the subject of the uglification of women in gaming. All it takes is one click and suddenly my entire youtube feed is full of outrage bait featuring inarticulate nerds droning on and on about nothing. But that doesn't mean the trend is all in our heads. It's incredibly blatant. Most average people don't have hilariously derpy faces like the Mass Effect andromeda girl or lumpy potato faces like the girl from Fable 4. The Ciri example is less blatant but it's still pretty egregious if you ask me. |
9 hours ago
#89
Reply to epidemia78
@LSSJ_Gaming I'm sorry but that sounds like a bigoted comment. What, one can't appreciate female beauty without being labeled and shamed as a porn addict? Besides, most videogame and anime characters aren't "average people". They're androids and ninjas and elves and shit.
@Deathko Sure, there is a lot of overreacting in regards to the subject of the uglification of women in gaming. All it takes is one click and suddenly my entire youtube feed is full of outrage bait featuring inarticulate nerds droning on and on about nothing. But that doesn't mean the trend is all in our heads. It's incredibly blatant. Most average people don't have hilariously derpy faces like the Mass Effect andromeda girl or lumpy potato faces like the girl from Fable 4. The Ciri example is less blatant but it's still pretty egregious if you ask me.
@Deathko Sure, there is a lot of overreacting in regards to the subject of the uglification of women in gaming. All it takes is one click and suddenly my entire youtube feed is full of outrage bait featuring inarticulate nerds droning on and on about nothing. But that doesn't mean the trend is all in our heads. It's incredibly blatant. Most average people don't have hilariously derpy faces like the Mass Effect andromeda girl or lumpy potato faces like the girl from Fable 4. The Ciri example is less blatant but it's still pretty egregious if you ask me.
@epidemia78 she's essentailly a warrior from what I understand. Of course she isn't going to put on makeup all the time. Besides I have seen a lot of people saying they found Witcher 4's Ciri design attractive. Again what the fuck does this even have to do with the main topic here like bruh you just derailed shit to complain about women |
This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
8 hours ago
#90
Reply to epidemia78
@LSSJ_Gaming I'm sorry but that sounds like a bigoted comment. What, one can't appreciate female beauty without being labeled and shamed as a porn addict? Besides, most videogame and anime characters aren't "average people". They're androids and ninjas and elves and shit.
@Deathko Sure, there is a lot of overreacting in regards to the subject of the uglification of women in gaming. All it takes is one click and suddenly my entire youtube feed is full of outrage bait featuring inarticulate nerds droning on and on about nothing. But that doesn't mean the trend is all in our heads. It's incredibly blatant. Most average people don't have hilariously derpy faces like the Mass Effect andromeda girl or lumpy potato faces like the girl from Fable 4. The Ciri example is less blatant but it's still pretty egregious if you ask me.
@Deathko Sure, there is a lot of overreacting in regards to the subject of the uglification of women in gaming. All it takes is one click and suddenly my entire youtube feed is full of outrage bait featuring inarticulate nerds droning on and on about nothing. But that doesn't mean the trend is all in our heads. It's incredibly blatant. Most average people don't have hilariously derpy faces like the Mass Effect andromeda girl or lumpy potato faces like the girl from Fable 4. The Ciri example is less blatant but it's still pretty egregious if you ask me.
@epidemia78 Are androids and ninjas and shit supposed to be photo models? What's the trend? Of not having every female character face look so perfect it's actually uncanny? Do you believe every male character model out there looks like a dream coming straight from a nerdy girl's fantasies? I'm pretty sure most women don't dream about Mario... Then there's the fact all these comparisons usually use the same 2-3 screenshots of the same 3-4 games because... well... cherrypicking screenshots and examples to make an inexistent point is an internet tradition. Here's Ciri's face from the same segment of the trailer: Honestly it's very close to her W3's face. Same jawline, same chin, same nose, same eye shape. The lips changed a bit, but that's about it. I think what people see as "uglified" is just the change to her eyes and eyebrows color, and increased photorealism. Eyebrows' color does change one's appearance significantly. Being a witcher and mutating does change one's eyes' color, and can make their hair turn white. Geralt does have white eyebrows in the screenshots I found. The character is also supposed to be older. Regarding photorealism (something gamers are asking since the advent of 3d games)... It's not going to make characters sexier. More realistic skin textures, the shadows under her cheekbones or on her lower lip's scar... Can't have your cake and eat it too. I'm sure all the outraged weebs look like Johnny Depp when he was 30 and would instantly turn down W4's Ciri if she started hitting on them IRL... I mean, she's clearly "uglified" in that screenshot I posted 👀 I personally think her W4 trailer face is incredible and looks both prettier and more realistic than her W3 face... But it's not like I'll play the game anyway, I've never touched a Witcher game, they've always looked edgy af to me *shrugs* |
Deathko7 hours ago
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
8 hours ago
#91
The way things are going, Japan is going to go back to full isolationist mode and ban all foreigners. Also they will not license anime anymore and pull all the existing titles out of spite! Thanks otaku weirdos. |
8 hours ago
#92
justmaya said: the stupidest term I've ever heard You're telling me you never heard the word weeaboo? |
7 hours ago
#93
i think we should use western cultural imperialism to influence Japanese attitudes towards drugs, and then we might have a show about anime girls smoking weed |
7 hours ago
#94
Reply to TransferUser
justmaya said:
the stupidest term I've ever heard
the stupidest term I've ever heard
You're telling me you never heard the word weeaboo?
@TransferUser She hasn't heard the term "statutory rape" either, it seems. |
7 hours ago
#95
Reply to deg
if there are anime tourists then should there be anime immigrants?
@deg Would that mean that anime pirates are illegal immigrants? |
7 hours ago
#96
Reply to deltahalo241
@deg Would that mean that anime pirates are illegal immigrants?
@deltahalo241 then most users of this website are illegals |
5 hours ago
#97
Reply to thewiru
@LSSJ_Gaming
This will likely offend all sides, but I still don't understand why this "uglification" conspiracy started around a decade ago since, from my point of view, western games were ALWAYS ugly, for like... four decades.
People will make videos about "muh uglification", and then when I ask them which age they consider "the golden age of vidya"... it's an age where I already considered western games ugly.
I guess I just really hate realism and "Hooters bodytypes" while preferring stylization and bishoujo.
This will likely offend all sides, but I still don't understand why this "uglification" conspiracy started around a decade ago since, from my point of view, western games were ALWAYS ugly, for like... four decades.
People will make videos about "muh uglification", and then when I ask them which age they consider "the golden age of vidya"... it's an age where I already considered western games ugly.
I guess I just really hate realism and "Hooters bodytypes" while preferring stylization and bishoujo.
thewiru said: This will likely offend all sides You didn't offend me because I completely agree. |
その目だれの目? |
More topics from this board
» Your Top 5 or 10 Favorite Anime Characters (1985-1989)Serafos - 59 minutes ago |
2 |
by Kisaragi_Toka
»»
43 seconds ago |
|
» Well written female characters in battle shounenDelty103 - 11 hours ago |
19 |
by KeepCalmAndMal
»»
1 minute ago |
|
» What are the pre-requisites to liking old anime?thewiru - 5 hours ago |
14 |
by RainyEvenings
»»
8 minutes ago |
|
» How to get an anime master?SgtBateMan - 1 hour ago |
1 |
by RainyEvenings
»»
28 minutes ago |
|
» Winter 2025: Anime which could be interestingChri_desu_ne - Yesterday |
23 |
by RainyEvenings
»»
29 minutes ago |