TheZippotm said: Render_1 said: no some are definitely plot holes, I recall stating some as plot armour though. plot armour doesn't make it better. None of the things you've listed in that thread can be considered a plothole. Why don't you share what definition of a plothole you use and at least one example from that wall of text, so people are not forced to guess what you think a plothole is. a hole in the plot? something that makes no logical sense (ideally an inconsistentcy), that isn't plot armour (something that could never or almost ever happen, that happens so the MC or MCs succeed or at least don't die), you could argue the characters just made extremely stupid choices, and that is intentional, you cannot deny that at least some of my points are plot armour / holes, even of you disagree with some of them, if you are saying there is no plot armour, you are absolutely delusional. |
Call me Ren  |
Render_1 said: no they're not plotholes, we could argue it was plot armor or poorly written, but it definitely not a plot hole.Sayali567 said: All those things you explain in that thread is called a plot armor not plot hole, go and search what plot holes actually mean second this is a battle shounen main characters having plot armors is nothing new especially in battle shounens so if you have so much problems with that then don't watch such animes, Don't waste your and others time no some are definitely plot holes, I recall stating some as plot armour though. plot armour doesn't make it better. here a simple example of a plot hole: It's manga about a guy named goku and his everyday life, and in chapter 1 it was stated that this goku guy couldn't run, because he have a very weak legs, but somehow at chapter 30, he he was able to run, without any explaination at all, now that is a plot hole. Another example are from death note Every Death Note belongs to a Shinigami, and when a human takes possession of one of these notebooks, they are capable of seeing the Shinigami that it belongs to. Light sees Ryuk after he finds a Death note, but the problem is that the book never belonged to Ryuk, it was actually belonged to another Shinigami named Rem, he shouldn't be able to see ryuk because the book never belonged to ryuk, but somehow he's capable to see ryuk, it broke the rules that has been established by the author with no explanation at all.. Now that is a plot hole. In short, plot holes are inconsistencies or gap in the storyline or character development, theyre formed when a narrative stop following its own established logic. Render_1 said: something illogical or not logical does not always means plothole.a hole in the plot? something that makes no logical sense (ideally an inconsistentcy), that isn't plot armour (something that could never or almost ever happen, that happens so the MC or MCs succeed or at least don't die), you could argue the characters just made extremely stupid choices, and that is intentional, you cannot deny that at least some of my points are plot armour / holes, even of you disagree with some of them, if you are saying there is no plot armour, you are absolutely delusional. For exampe. It's fantasy manga about a guy named kirito, he's a superhuman, and in chapter 1 this superhuman guy are capable to breath under water, it doesnt make sense right? its not logical at all, But can you call it as a plot hole? No you can't, it's a fantasy story and in any fantasy, logic is out the window due to established 'rules' or 'logic' that are set by the author. Now a few chapters later, kirito was no longer capable to breath under water, without any explanation at all, eventhough in chapter 1 he was able to breath underwater. Now that is a plot hole, because there's an inconsintencies in it and it also breaks its own established 'rules' and 'logic' without any explaination |
Jfs_Jan 17, 2022 3:56 AM
| Go read 'Mediterranean Hegemon of Ancient Greece' If you like webnovel with historical, military and kingdom building genre. |
have you actually read the other comments I've posted? I linked a thread on which I listed MANY examples. |
Call me Ren |
TheZippotm said: Render_1 said: have you actually read the other comments I've posted? I linked a thread on which I listed MANY examples. Dude, you first said everything in that wall of text is a plothole. Later you were like "Fine, not everting is a plothole, some of them are plot armor". I don't know on which points you've changed your mind on. That's why I asked for one example that you still consider a plothole because for me none of them are. I still consider them either plot holes or extreme plot armour, neither of which is good, I really can't be bothered to rewrite each one with which I think it is, does it particularly matter? I think the most major plot hole would be tanjiro becoming way stronger in this arc out of seemingly no where (I am aware there was some training, but the power up is far too high), while plot armour would be everyone chatting shit instead of killing each other, which is obviously not just an issue with demon slayer. (if an episode came out on Sunday or smth, I haven't seen it) |
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TheZippotm said: Plotholes are very different and far worse than plot armor. A show full of plotholes is substantially worse than a show full of plot armor. Tanjiro getting stronger out of nowhere is a plot armor and an extremely common trope in shonen and calling it plothole is very hyperbolic. it's logically inconsistent with the rest of the show, which is why id call it a plot hole, but sure. and yes I am aware that it is a very common trope in shounen, I'm not saying demon slayer is the only show ever to suffer from this |
Call me Ren |
| Wow, now everyone have become a critic once Demon slayer started. |
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certifiedbinger said: Now, a lot of people deemed Daki's beheading not killing her a plot hole, even though they've left A LOT of room for explanation. Tengen even considers the possibility that both the siblings are supposed to be beheaded at the same time. Something that everyone conveniently missed. Also Gyutaro says "we're two people in one" so what Tengen says must be correct and that "plot hole" is pretty much explained. I feel like people just don't pay attention and are nitpicking because of that or they're either not understanding how a story works (where you're not going to be given all the answers straight away) or they don't want to use what they know from the show to fill in the blanks when something isn't answered blatantly |
| Plot holes? Where? Keep in mind that the anime IS STILL A I R I N G. Questions are made, answers are shown later. If you want to know badly, be patient and wait until all episodes are out or read the manga. If you are curious about "How is Tanjiro able to use Kagura against Daki out of nowhere??" Let me answer that for you - He trained and trained, so his body would keep up and handle the ability, it was even shown in the flashback in the SAME EPISODE. Plus she added more fuel into the fire after she killed those people with no remorse and Tanjiro just got pissed off, making him go into "berserk mode" as I would call it. Kindest people can be the scariest. Or another question from the newest episode - How come Daki didn't die from the slash? Why did Gyutaro emerge from her body? Like he explained - They are conjoined, they are like two in one, Gyutaro is the real deal here. Daki didn't die because she isn't the main body. If there are "plot holes", name one. I can try my best to explain them. |
TheOneOfSevenJan 17, 2022 9:22 AM
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| The plot isn’t that complex and there also aren’t any holes. Any open questions will be answered in the story. Plot armor is another thing tho but basically every shounen protag has that. |
| Does Tanjiro's nose count as a plot hole or just bad writing? It seems like it only works when the plot needs it to work, for example when Daki kidnaps Koinatsu right after he left the room. Shouldn't he have been able to smell her? |
Delisches said: Does Tanjiro's nose count as a plot hole or just bad writing? It seems like it only works when the plot needs it to work, for example when Daki kidnaps Koinatsu right after he left the room. Shouldn't he have been able to smell her? I think strong demons are just really good at covering their presence. Zenitsu for example has really good ears and usually hears demons right away but he didn’t notice Daki until she was right behind him and he was surprised about it. Also since Daki moves around by using her obi it‘s probably hard to sense her until she really appears. And i think Tanjirou did smell her right away when he was about to leave and she captured Koinatsu. He was on his way to Inosuke and then did an u-turn immediately and if i remember correctly he wasn’t far away yet. Also Tanjiro‘s nose is always good and doesn’t only aply to demons. So he smells a lot of different things. He complained that the air in the district smelled thick and heavy so maybe his nose also got confused. |
Ocat1234Jan 17, 2022 11:37 AM
Render_1 said: It’s not logically inconsistent though? Tanjiro had been training for four months and training his Hinokami. Is getting stronger not a logical result of training? After training at Butterfly Mansion at the end of Season 1, he was then able to defeat Enmu, Lower 1, after failing to defeat Rui, Lower 5, and no one seems to have a problem with that. Further training after that, and while fighting at his utmost limit, he was able to get the upper hand on Daki - someone not even strong enough to be considered an Upper 6 - and STILL couldn’t manage to defeat her. Additionally, plot armor isn’t a bad thing at all. It would be bad if the main character died Episode 1 because no one saved him. You wouldn’t have a story then. Plot armor is only considered “bad” when it makes absolutely no sense as to how the main character survived something other than the fact that he’s the main character. For example, MC is caught in the middle of an explosion that kills everyone inside, but he just happens to come out of it unscathed with no explanation! That’s plot armor. Tanjiro being protected from Akaza by Rengoku is called writing a story.TheZippotm said: Plotholes are very different and far worse than plot armor. A show full of plotholes is substantially worse than a show full of plot armor. Tanjiro getting stronger out of nowhere is a plot armor and an extremely common trope in shonen and calling it plothole is very hyperbolic. it's logically inconsistent with the rest of the show, which is why id call it a plot hole, but sure. and yes I am aware that it is a very common trope in shounen, I'm not saying demon slayer is the only show ever to suffer from this |
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MikitoList said: Render_1 said: It’s not logically inconsistent though? Tanjiro had been training for four months and training his Hinokami. Is getting stronger not a logical result of training? After training at Butterfly Mansion at the end of Season 1, he was then able to defeat Enmu, Lower 1, after failing to defeat Rui, Lower 5, and no one seems to have a problem with that. Further training after that, and while fighting at his utmost limit, he was able to get the upper hand on Daki - someone not even strong enough to be considered an Upper 6 - and STILL couldn’t manage to defeat her. Additionally, plot armor isn’t a bad thing at all. It would be bad if the main character died Episode 1 because no one saved him. You wouldn’t have a story then. Plot armor is only considered “bad” when it makes absolutely no sense as to how the main character survived something other than the fact that he’s the main character. For example, MC is caught in the middle of an explosion that kills everyone inside, but he just happens to come out of it unscathed with no explanation! That’s plot armor. Tanjiro being protected from Akaza by Rengoku is called writing a story.it's logically inconsistent with the rest of the show, which is why id call it a plot hole, but sure. and yes I am aware that it is a very common trope in shounen, I'm not saying demon slayer is the only show ever to suffer from this my issue isn't he's stronger its HOW MUCH stronger, gets the strength of a hashira (for limited time) with what a couple months of weeks or training? absolute joke lmao, and yes, I also have an issue with the lower first fight, I don't think that should have been won as easily if at all. call it writing a story all you want, demon slayer like pretty much every shounen has far too much plot armour, especially this current season. obviously how much "plot armour" something has is subjective and an opinion. |
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| God if people are bitching this bad now imagine how they gonna be near the end of the series cuz the end in my opinion was pretty meh so I expect the later fights people will complain and be amazed at the animation cuz some fights to come are pretty dope while the ass pulls will get a bit outta hand until near the end |
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| plot armor? yes. plot holes? i mean... |
Render_1 said: Who said he had the strength of a Hashira? You’re making assumptions of his strength based on what exactly? An actual Hashira beheaded Daki so fast that she didn’t even notice it happened until her head slid off. Tanjiro literally almost died just trying to fight with Daki’s Obi. There is a very clear difference in power there - even Tanjiro was confused as to how she was beheaded that fast. And yes, that is definitely subjective, but I do question your sense of logic.MikitoList said: It’s not logically inconsistent though? Tanjiro had been training for four months and training his Hinokami. Is getting stronger not a logical result of training? After training at Butterfly Mansion at the end of Season 1, he was then able to defeat Enmu, Lower 1, after failing to defeat Rui, Lower 5, and no one seems to have a problem with that. Further training after that, and while fighting at his utmost limit, he was able to get the upper hand on Daki - someone not even strong enough to be considered an Upper 6 - and STILL couldn’t manage to defeat her. Additionally, plot armor isn’t a bad thing at all. It would be bad if the main character died Episode 1 because no one saved him. You wouldn’t have a story then. Plot armor is only considered “bad” when it makes absolutely no sense as to how the main character survived something other than the fact that he’s the main character. For example, MC is caught in the middle of an explosion that kills everyone inside, but he just happens to come out of it unscathed with no explanation! That’s plot armor. Tanjiro being protected from Akaza by Rengoku is called writing a story. my issue isn't he's stronger its HOW MUCH stronger, gets the strength of a hashira (for limited time) with what a couple months of weeks or training? absolute joke lmao, and yes, I also have an issue with the lower first fight, I don't think that should have been won as easily if at all. call it writing a story all you want, demon slayer like pretty much every shounen has far too much plot armour, especially this current season. obviously how much "plot armour" something has is subjective and an opinion. |
| My Candies: Bonus: |
TheZippotm said: Anyway, since you didn't post any more examples of a plothole, is it safe to assume you don't have any? read. the. other. fucking. thread. I give up, I'm not responding anymore. |
Call me Ren |
| My man created a post to whine and didn't even mention any plot holes. Also, plot armor isn't the same as plot holes. |
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| Seriously, 90% doesn't even know what's plothole. They use it as throw-away rant. Here actual plot hole that happened in Magi anime (since it was anime original filler battle for last episodes) - Alibaba was overtaken by black djinn. He survived - which is impossible, everyone dies after being exposed of these djinns, like Dunya. |
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| [quote=Mimimimimitan message=65539932] You rather have a 20+ episodes of Tanjiro training in the Demon Slayer's equivalent of Hyperbolic Time Chamber like Goku/Gohan/Vegeta/Trunks did in Dragon Ball Z to explain a sudden power-up? Or a fight taking 40 episodes before it concludes? No thanks, I rather have this format than having it feel like a drag to watch.[/quote when did I say its the worst shounen or anything, I havent said anything like what you are in about |
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Mimimimimitan said: Where did I say that you find it the worst shounen? I've seen many people complain about "sudden power-ups" but the alternative is way worse. Inbetween in the best, i was fine with how it was in the first season, that was overall better |
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Mimimimimitan said: They spent several episodes of him training, which is in essence a 4 month period of training and the power-up Tanjiro experienced is because of his Demon Slayer Mark unlocking. Nezuko received a high amount of blood from Muzan Kibutsuji, so her 'power-up' is more her finally unleashing her potential, as the demon she was fighting was on a different level than the small fries before. I think I'm 2 episodes behind right now, so maybe nezuko is explained, but no matter what happens tanjiro is too much of a jump in skill for me, I get he trained, but it wasn't nearly the amount shown in whatever episode this thread was created for. obviously a subjective opinion, I get your argument. |
Call me Ren |
Mimimimimitan said: The Demon Slayer Mark is explained here: https://kimetsu-no-yaiba.fandom.com/wiki/Demon_Slayer_Mark Unlocking The Demon Slayer Mark can only appear in Demon Slayers that survived the life-threatening conditions of having a heart rate over 200 bpm and a body temperature over 39° Celsius (102.2° Fahrenheit). The precondition in unlocking it is that an individual directly related to Sun Breathing has been born with it. The Demon Slayer's mark also has the ability to act as a catalyst, and spread from the original user to other strong Slayers, such as the Hashira, through resonance, granting them Demon Slayer Marks of their own. okay, I haven't seen this in the anime, but I still think that sounds a little bullshity, anyway I am probably done with this convo, thanks for your time tho |
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| oh boy here we go again with this bait thread.... |
 |
Jfs_ said: Another example are from death note Every Death Note belongs to a Shinigami, and when a human takes possession of one of these notebooks, they are capable of seeing the Shinigami that it belongs to. Light sees Ryuk after he finds a Death note, but the problem is that the book never belonged to Ryuk, it was actually belonged to another Shinigami named Rem, he shouldn't be able to see ryuk because the book never belonged to ryuk, but somehow he's capable to see ryuk, it broke the rules that has been established by the author with no explanation at all.. Now that is a plot hole. To correct that statement, that wasn't a plot hole at all and it's explained in the story. First, Ryuk's stolen Death Note is Shidoh's, not Rem's. Then it is specifically explained that Ryuk got ownership of Shidoh's Death Note (in quite the different way to how Rem claimed her own second Death Note from the shinigami in love with Misa), as in tricking the Shinigami King of his realm to get it for himself as a second Death Note and drop it on Earth (he doesn't enter in details as to how he did it, but that he indeed "did it and had the ownership for himself" is definitely there). |
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Danpmss said: Oh is it strue? My bad then, it's been so long since i watched death note, i probably forgot some detail.Jfs_ said: Another example are from death note Every Death Note belongs to a Shinigami, and when a human takes possession of one of these notebooks, they are capable of seeing the Shinigami that it belongs to. Light sees Ryuk after he finds a Death note, but the problem is that the book never belonged to Ryuk, it was actually belonged to another Shinigami named Rem, he shouldn't be able to see ryuk because the book never belonged to ryuk, but somehow he's capable to see ryuk, it broke the rules that has been established by the author with no explanation at all.. Now that is a plot hole. To correct that statement, that wasn't a plot hole at all and it's explained in the story. First, Ryuk's stolen Death Note is Shidoh's, not Rem's. Then it is specifically explained that Ryuk got ownership of Shidoh's Death Note (in quite the different way to how Rem claimed her own second Death Note from the shinigami in love with Misa), as in tricking the Shinigami King of his realm to get it for himself as a second Death Note and drop it on Earth (he doesn't enter in details as to how he did it, but that he indeed "did it and had the ownership for himself" is definitely there). |
| Go read 'Mediterranean Hegemon of Ancient Greece' If you like webnovel with historical, military and kingdom building genre. |
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