Do you want Feminism in your Anime?
Yes, politics infesting entertainment is a good thing
18.8%
171
No, the Author's vision should be respected
81.2%
740
911 votes
TheGreatMizuti said: Feminism isn't about excluding men from society as Nyu seems to think. Google it or better yet, ask any sensible campaigning feminist and they'll happily and painlessly prove you wrong, as three people did a few minutes ago when I wrote something stupid. "Feminism is about equality! It say's so in the dictionary!" Don't give me that bullshit. Action speaks louder than words. You cannot call feminism movement for "equality" while it addresses trivial issues of one (like man sitting comfortably in half-empty train), while excluding issues of the other. Also can you name at least ONE legal law (executed by court and police) that woman don't have, but man do? Because I can name a few which man don't have, but women do. Also: "Sexism or gender discrimination is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender." Note, that it does not says it exclusively against female. It says so in the dictionary. I Googled it up. :D |
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Piromysl said: TheGreatMizuti said: Feminism isn't about excluding men from society as Nyu seems to think. Google it or better yet, ask any sensible campaigning feminist and they'll happily and painlessly prove you wrong, as three people did a few minutes ago when I wrote something stupid. "Feminism is about equality! It say's so in the dictionary!" Don't give me that bullshit. Action speaks louder than words. You cannot call feminism movement for "equality" while it addresses trivial issues of one (like man sitting comfortably in half-empty train), while excluding issues of the other. Also can you name at least ONE legal law (executed by court and police) that woman don't have, but man do? Because I can name a few which man don't have, but women do. Oh yes, just read up about near eastern countries and their fight against woman's pants. But in the West, it's all about laws not accommodating the differences between men and women enough. Like this joke: - Our USA is such a free country! You can go to Washington DC and shout "fuck the President!" and nobody would do a thing to you. - Is that impressive? In our Soviet Union, you can go to Red Square and shout "fuck the President of USA!" and nobody would do a thing to you too. |
flannanSep 17, 2017 3:15 AM
| This thread is fucking stupid, and so is OP. I'm not surprised since he is a known far-right loser. |
AnimeotakuWeeb said: TheGreatMizuti said: Feminism isn't about excluding men from society as Nyu seems to think. Google it or better yet, ask any sensible campaigning feminist and they'll happily and painlessly prove you wrong, as three people did a few minutes ago when I wrote something stupid. http://www.dailywire.com/news/8386/feminist-journalist-all-men-are-rapists-and-should-amanda-prestigiacomo nice way to generelize whole movement into one kind of view, exactly like what she was doing... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| I assume that it's really a question of creative freedom and I don't agree that writers should bow to anyone in what they make, no matter who complains. |
flannan said: Oh yes, just read up about near eastern countries and their fight against woman's pants. That's a great point! But what is feminism doing about it? Some of them actually supporting Jihad and Sharia law (like Linda Sarsour). Feminists chanting "Allahu Akbar" really speaks for itself. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFj8o2DGKQ) But most of them are complying on their 600$ smartphone, how a man looked at them in the way it made them uncomfortable. lady_freyja said: Every movement has their idiots who speak louder than everyone. Basing your opinion on a movement on those idiots isn't very a good discernment. Plus you're reducing a multi-form movement into one narrow view, it's called generalization. Of course feminist do not generalize all man, like all man are potential rapists and just waiting for opportunity to strike. Just answer a question, which I asked earlier and you'll get a concept of 3rd wave feminism: "What legal right, if any, men have, but men don't?" I'm not asking about social things, like catcalling (sic!). I'm asking about something that is encoded by law and enforced by law. |
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| Contrary to what many believe, feminism in anime has been there for a very long time. Studio Ghibli is one of the most feminist film studios in the world, not just regarding animation. In fact their movie 'Only Yesterday' did not get distributed in the west when it came out because Disney wanted to cut away the references to menstruation, as menstruation was a taboo subject. Ghibli refused to let them, however. If Disney can be called feminist today, they sure are far behind Ghibli. Also, finding strong independent female characters in anime is very easy, not just in Ghibli films. |
Piromysl said: Just answer a question, which I asked earlier and you'll get a concept of 3rd wave feminism: "What legal right, if any, men have, but men don't?" I'm not asking about social things, like catcalling (sic!). I'm asking about something that is encoded by law and enforced by law. You are deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of 3rd wave feminism. That's why you're not getting an answer. |
| theres nothing wrong with feminism in anime, so long as the writer actively wants to have it, as is the case in the works of ikuhara and co so that poll is pretty dumb. politics can be a part of an authors vision |
| This is hilarious coming from someone who claims women in fiction shouldn't have super powers, because that would have been unrealistic. TOPKEK |
| OPs constant, relentless bashing of feminism is frankly tired, and I'm saying this as someone critical of the movement in its current state. Regardless, it depends. I have nothing against the insertion of feminist themes if they are implemented in a thought provoking, nuanced and mature way (like Revolutionary Girl Utena for example). That being said, if a series espouses feminism in as hamfisted and heavy handed a way I see in the average Buzzfeed video, count me the fuck out. |
Take care of yourself |
Piromysl said: flannan said: Oh yes, just read up about near eastern countries and their fight against woman's pants. That's a great point! But what is feminism doing about it? Some of them actually supporting Jihad and Sharia law (like Linda Sarsour). Feminists chanting "Allahu Akbar" really speaks for itself. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFj8o2DGKQ) But most of them are complying on their 600$ smartphone, how a man looked at them in the way it made them uncomfortable. that's usual sheeple people that make them not educated enough that make them vote againts their interets... just like those people who regretted after knowing obamacare and ACA is same thing... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Too many threads related to feminism are being made lately for some reason :/ |
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ThatRazorGuy said: OPs constant, relentless bashing of feminism is frankly tired, and I'm saying this as someone critical of the movement in its current state. Regardless, it depends. I have nothing against the insertion of feminist themes if they are implemented in a thought provoking, nuanced and mature way (like Revolutionary Girl Utena for example). That being said, if a series espouses feminism in as hamfisted and heavy handed a way I see in the average Buzzfeed video, count me the fuck out. Constant bashing of feminism in general is tired. There is a difference between sex positive and sex negative feminism. While I am also critical of feminism in its current form (from a mostly leftist perspective) most feminists I have encountered are sex positive and therefore probably don't want to take our chinese cartoons away from us. |
flannan said: You are deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of 3rd wave feminism. That's why you're not getting an answer. Professional question dodging. You must be great feminist. FYI - facts > feelings And I exactly know what 3rd wave feminist is about. It is pro-censorship, pro-segregation, actively fights against father's rights, advocates against presumption of innocence, and perpetuates misinformation against nature of domestic violence and rape. Feminism hinges on narrative of perpetual female victimhood at the hands of male of the male controlled society, they can't acknowledge systemic inequalities faced by men. They have to ignore or deny the reality of male victims of domestic abuse, high rate of male suicide, difficulties faced by boys and males in education and so on. According to this movement, men are the oppressors, the rapists, the wife-beaters and enemies. Men can never be the victims, because the any acknowledgement that men don't have it so great may be admittion that an idea, that male controlled society favours men may not be so valid. And maybe women are not perpetual victim of the big bad patriarchy after all. Feminism needs legitimacy, so it needs a villain to fight against, so they cling to this false narrative about men keeping women down with the system designed to keep the men on the top, so they refuse to acknowledge that men also make up the bottom. If they would really believe in equality, they wouldn't call themselves "feminists". They would call themselves "egalitarians". But they don't do that. Instead they engage in damage control and insist that "feminism is about equality, because it says so in the dictionary" and they demonstrate that they don't care about equality. All they care about is the label. lady_freyja said: I'm a feminist and I don't do that. Thank you. Which doesn't mean that some feminists aren't generalizing. But like I said, there is idiots everywhere. And I don't care about laws because where I live, I consider that the law is fine, although I didn't watch it in details. What I'm more interested is in the construction of the two social genders "male" and "female", which concerns both sexes. Which include notably the "you're a boy/girl, so you must act like that, or more exactly mustn't act like that." And I'll never deny that it affect as much if not more men than women, since it seems that there is more stigma for an effeminate boy than a masculine girl. Well, more exactly that movement is called "queer" as far as I know, or "post-feminism", anyway that's the same lineage. I'm not strict about labels. Please... Also if you are talking about transgender, you should know it is labelled as a personality disorder (Gender dysphoria). And don't get me wrong, I don't hate them and don't think that they sub-humans, but I'm totally against praising and cheering for it. They people need help and compassion. You may think that you are whoever you want, but you can't force me to respect that. The second thing is that boys are boys and girls are girls by nature. Nobody is teaching them that. For example, boys are drawed to toy cars, while girls are drawed to dolls. This is not a stereotype, it is natural. But let's get back to original topic. I think, only in anime you may find so much strong female and likeable leads. Definitely much more than in western media video games and TV shows. But feminist will ALWAYS find something to complain about. Must preserve victim status... |
PiromyslSep 17, 2017 4:38 AM
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Piromysl said: flannan said: You are deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of 3rd wave feminism. That's why you're not getting an answer. Professional question dodging. You must be great feminist. FYI - facts > feelings And I exactly know what 3rd wave feminist is about. It is pro-censorship, pro-segregation, actively fights against father's rights, advocates against presumption of innocence, and perpetuates misinformation against nature of domestic violence and rape. Feminism hinges on narrative of perpetual female victimhood at the hands of male of the male controlled society, they can't acknowledge systemic inequalities faced by men. They have to ignore or deny the reality of male victims of domestic abuse, high rate of male suicide, difficulties faced by boys and males in education and so on. According to this movement, men are the oppressors, the rapists, the wife-beaters and enemies. Men can never be the victims, because the any acknowledgement that men don't have it so great may be admittion that an idea, that male controlled society favours men may not be so valid. And maybe women are not perpetual victim of the big bad patriarchy after all. Feminism needs legitimacy, so it needs a villain to fight against, so they cling to this false narrative about men keeping women down with the system designed to keep the men on the top, so they refuse to acknowledge that men also make up the bottom. If they would really believe in equality, they wouldn't call themselves "feminists". They would call themselves "egalitarians". But they don't do that. Instead they engage in damage control and insist that "feminism is about equality, because it says so in the dictionary" and they demonstrate that they don't care about equality. All they care about is the label. lady_freyja said: I'm a feminist and I don't do that. Thank you. Which doesn't mean that some feminists aren't generalizing. But like I said, there is idiots everywhere. And I don't care about laws because where I live, I consider that the law is fine, although I didn't watch it in details. What I'm more interested is in the construction of the two social genders "male" and "female", which concerns both sexes. Which include notably the "you're a boy/girl, so you must act like that, or more exactly mustn't act like that." And I'll never deny that it affect as much if not more men than women, since it seems that there is more stigma for an effeminate boy than a masculine girl. Well, more exactly that movement is called "queer" as far as I know, or "post-feminism", anyway that's the same lineage. I'm not strict about labels. Please... Also if you are talking about transgender, you should know it is labelled as a personality disorder (Gender dysphoria). And don't get me wrong, I don't hate them and don't think that they sub-humans, but I'm totally against praising and cheering for it. They people need help and compassion. You may think that you are whoever you want, but you can't force me to respect that. The second thing is that boys are boys and girls are girls by nature. Nobody is teaching them that. For example, boys are drawed to toy cars, while girls are drawed to dolls. This is not a stereotype, it is natural. But let's get back to original topic. I think, only in anime you may find so much strong female and likeable leads. Definitely much more than in western media video games and TV shows. But feminist will ALWAYS find something to complain about. Must preserve victim status... while I agree with you on some points, this is just sexist as f*** |
Piromysl said: They have to ignore or deny the reality of male victims of domestic abuse, high rate of male suicide, difficulties faced by boys and males in education and so on. According to this movement, men are the oppressors, the rapists, the wife-beaters and enemies. Men can never be the victims, because the any acknowledgement that men don't have it so great may be admittion that an idea, that male controlled society favours men may not be so valid. And maybe women are not perpetual victim of the big bad patriarchy after all. The things you're stating are products of gender roles. Feminists want to fight gender roles, not preserve them. Anti-feminists on the other hand tend to decribe gender roles as "natural" and obviously don't want to oppose them at all. So as long as gender roles get to dictate society, mens suicide rates will be higher than womens. Men are supposed to be strong and not seek help, while women are perfectly allowed to be weak and help-seeking. |
zodd0 said: Piromysl said: They have to ignore or deny the reality of male victims of domestic abuse, high rate of male suicide, difficulties faced by boys and males in education and so on. According to this movement, men are the oppressors, the rapists, the wife-beaters and enemies. Men can never be the victims, because the any acknowledgement that men don't have it so great may be admittion that an idea, that male controlled society favours men may not be so valid. And maybe women are not perpetual victim of the big bad patriarchy after all. The things you're stating are products of gender roles. Feminists want to fight gender roles, not preserve them. Anti-feminists on the other hand tend to decribe gender roles as "natural" and obviously don't want to oppose them at all. So as long as gender roles get to dictate society, mens suicide rates will be higher than womens. Men are supposed to be strong and not seek help, while women are perfectly allowed to be weak and help-seeking. Isn't that just equality?......... |
Erebus25 said: Isn't that just equality?......... Fighting gender roles is a matter of equality yes, and a central part of feminism... |
Piromysl said: flannan said: You are deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of 3rd wave feminism. That's why you're not getting an answer. Professional question dodging. You must be great feminist. FYI - facts > feelings And I exactly know what 3rd wave feminist is about. It is pro-censorship, pro-segregation, actively fights against father's rights, advocates against presumption of innocence, and perpetuates misinformation against nature of domestic violence and rape. Feminism hinges on narrative of perpetual female victimhood at the hands of male of the male controlled society, they can't acknowledge systemic inequalities faced by men. They have to ignore or deny the reality of male victims of domestic abuse, high rate of male suicide, difficulties faced by boys and males in education and so on. According to this movement, men are the oppressors, the rapists, the wife-beaters and enemies. Men can never be the victims, because the any acknowledgement that men don't have it so great may be admittion that an idea, that male controlled society favours men may not be so valid. And maybe women are not perpetual victim of the big bad patriarchy after all. Feminism needs legitimacy, so it needs a villain to fight against, so they cling to this false narrative about men keeping women down with the system designed to keep the men on the top, so they refuse to acknowledge that men also make up the bottom. If they would really believe in equality, they wouldn't call themselves "feminists". They would call themselves "egalitarians". But they don't do that. Instead they engage in damage control and insist that "feminism is about equality, because it says so in the dictionary" and they demonstrate that they don't care about equality. All they care about is the label. lady_freyja said: I'm a feminist and I don't do that. Thank you. Which doesn't mean that some feminists aren't generalizing. But like I said, there is idiots everywhere. And I don't care about laws because where I live, I consider that the law is fine, although I didn't watch it in details. What I'm more interested is in the construction of the two social genders "male" and "female", which concerns both sexes. Which include notably the "you're a boy/girl, so you must act like that, or more exactly mustn't act like that." And I'll never deny that it affect as much if not more men than women, since it seems that there is more stigma for an effeminate boy than a masculine girl. Well, more exactly that movement is called "queer" as far as I know, or "post-feminism", anyway that's the same lineage. I'm not strict about labels. Please... Also if you are talking about transgender, you should know it is labelled as a personality disorder (Gender dysphoria). And don't get me wrong, I don't hate them and don't think that they sub-humans, but I'm totally against praising and cheering for it. They people need help and compassion. You may think that you are whoever you want, but you can't force me to respect that. The second thing is that boys are boys and girls are girls by nature. Nobody is teaching them that. For example, boys are drawed to toy cars, while girls are drawed to dolls. This is not a stereotype, it is natural. But let's get back to original topic. I think, only in anime you may find so much strong female and likeable leads. Definitely much more than in western media video games and TV shows. But feminist will ALWAYS find something to complain about. Must preserve victim status... As a feminist myself I think both of you have good points. I don't know about US laws because I've never been there but where I live there are certain laws which counter misogyny and I applaud that. I also don't think @lady_freyja meant gender dysphoria on its own but something much broader. The fact that women are fine when they wear a skirt or wear make up but when men do it they risk being called a faggot. Really, as a guy that gets on my nerves too! However the kind of feminist you and Nyu oppose needs to go because it gives us a bad name. |
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zodd0 said: Erebus25 said: Isn't that just equality?......... Fighting gender roles is a matter of equality yes, and a central part of feminism... So how does it differ from egalitarianism? |
Erebus25 said: So how does it differ from egalitarianism? Egalitarianism never addressed the issue of gender roles? |
| Please for the love of god, don't bring this shit into MAL. Politics at the moment is a joke. All I see is media hysteria. With regards to feminism, no, there is no 1 in 5 rape culture college campuses and there is no discrimination in the wage gap. It's because of these nonsense that discussion cannot progress on from this cancerous bullcrap which triggers violence from antifa every time. The sad thing is these people are just a small small minority of the population, yet is causing a dysfunction in society much greater than their numbers should be able to. |
BurningSpiritSep 17, 2017 5:15 AM
| If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
zodd0 said: Erebus25 said: So how does it differ from egalitarianism? Egalitarianism never addressed the issue of gender roles? Doesn't equality necessarily mean no gender roles? |
| Does this require knowledge of what people call the aforementioned wage gap? |
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What? No, you can't have both equality and gender roles.... If you want gender roles, then stop complaining about the inequality that it causes... |
zodd0 said: Fighting gender roles is a matter of equality yes, and a central part of feminism... I don't think there's a need to fight gender roles. Sure we shouldn't be forcing a woman who chooses to be independent to "get in the kitchen", but rather than praising and glorifying this choice, can't we just embrace and respect it as much as a women who chooses to stop working and care for the child. Gender roles are something that their respective gender tends to fall into, which means MOST (but not all) will fall into it. It's like the statistical disparity of women in STEM fields, women are in general not keen to pursue such fields and we should respect that, but people often turn around and call it discrimination or internalised misogyny. We aren't going around telling girls who are good at math and science to go read literature, it's just on average girls tend to go into humanities. |
| If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
In a broad sense it does and feminists advocate for this part of equality while others advocate for other subjects within it. It's just that at its broadest it's just too broad for people to advocate for every single aspect of it and people do place bigger importance on some parts than others. Sad thing is that some people get carried away with their own ideas and they develop into what you usually see on internet discussions. |
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kikyo1hinamora said: Too many threads related to feminism are being made lately for some reason :/ I'm pretty sure this thread is made as a reaction to another thread nearby. Because Nyu is dumb and wants validation. Screw him. Piromysl said: flannan said: You are deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of 3rd wave feminism. That's why you're not getting an answer. Professional question dodging. You must be great feminist. I am not obligated to answer your questions. Nor am I qualified to answer your question. I'm not even much of a feminist - I just hate ignorance and dumbness anti-feminists promote. But most importantly, we both know what the answer is most likely to be - "there are none". So your question is a rhetoric question that doesn't need answering. Piromysl said: FYI - facts > feelings Sure. But where do the laws come into this equations? Laws are very much not facts (I can tell you this as a post-soviet survivor), and they don't even create much feelings. Piromysl said: And I exactly know what 3rd wave feminist is about. Did you learn it all personally, or did you just listen to anti-feminist propaganda by people who want to return people back under the yoke of aristocrats? Piromysl said: If they would really believe in equality, they wouldn't call themselves "feminists". They would call themselves "egalitarians". But they don't do that. Instead they engage in damage control and insist that "feminism is about equality, because it says so in the dictionary" and they demonstrate that they don't care about equality. All they care about is the label. There are people who call themselves "egalitarians". They are people who actively pretend everything is alright with the world, and go on to argue feminism is unnecessary. Except it's a lie. There is no true equality. For example, I've been learning in a moderately prestigious university. We had 1 woman to 5-10 men in the physics department, and 1 man to 5-10 women in the philology department. And it's not like doing physics or philology demands masculinity or femininity in any way. That was no coincidence, and nobody was surprised by that. And it's not like physics department is popular and smarter boys outcompete girls (in fact, the department is underpopulated, and took pretty much everybody who applied). Hence, something, somewhere, must be unequal. 3rd wave feminists think it's all about stereotypes - girls get discouraged from doing physics, and encouraged to do "feminine" things like philology instead. And they set out to correct this. Since I think the world would benefit from more physicists and less philologists (what do they do when they aren't teaching language in school?), I approve of their efforts. |
Kistvaen_Mikvoth said: SuperRed said: This thread is fucking stupid, and so is OP. I'm not surprised since he is a known far-right loser. Leftists seem to know a great deal concerning what being a looser is about... No wonder it's the case since an overwhelming majority of them are in fact virgin neets living in their mom's basement while being full grown adults. The german Police can vouch for that very much, here is the link to a interesting article about this fact. http://m.bild.de/regional/berlin/linksextremismus/92-prozent-der-berliner-linksradikalen-wohnen-noch-bei-mutti-44249918.bildMobile.html#fromWall Enjoy I can't read German. Nice stereotyping bro. |
zodd0 said: What? No, you can't have both equality and gender roles.... If you want gender roles, then stop complaining about the inequality that it causes... There's no point classifying two groups of people, then set quotas to aim for one to be equal to another. It's better to promote individuality and personal freedom, then see where that brings us. Statistical disparity isn't always a bad thing. “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.” -Milton Friedman |
| If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
BurningSpirit said: I don't think there's a need to fight gender roles. Sure we shouldn't be forcing a woman who chooses to be independent to "get in the kitchen", but rather than praising and glorifying this choice, can't we just embrace and respect it as much as a women who chooses to stop working and care for the child. Gender roles are something that their respective gender tends to fall into, which means MOST (but not all) will fall into it. It's like the statistical disparity of women in STEM fields, women are in general not keen to pursue such fields and we should respect that, but people often turn around and call it discrimination or internalised misogyny. We aren't going around telling girls who are good at math and science to go read literature, it's just on average girls tend to go into humanities. The more gender roles have been fought, the more freedom women and men have recieved. Why not embrace and respect a man for staying home and caring for his child then? Oh, because that goes against gender roles... |
| Political ideas should not be influencing our anime unless it is the creator's attention to do so. I totally disavow modern day first world feminism. If feminists want to force their views about feminism in anime, at least make it be for rights of women in the middle east rather than b*tch about a nonexistant wage gap. |
| “Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth. But the world isn't perfect, and the law is incomplete..." -Alphonse Elric "Then and now, what I protect has never changed!" -Sakata Gintoki I'll take anything like The Pet Girl of Sakurasou. Anything as good as that. |
| I know right. Why can't all anime creators just shoehorn nazi propaganda into their anime instead? |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Kistvaen_Mikvoth said: SuperRed said: This thread is fucking stupid, and so is OP. I'm not surprised since he is a known far-right loser. Leftists seem to know a great deal concerning what being a looser is about... No wonder it's the case since an overwhelming majority of them are in fact virgin neets living in their mom's basement while being full grown adults. The german Police can vouch for that very much, here is the link to a interesting article about this fact. http://m.bild.de/regional/berlin/linksextremismus/92-prozent-der-berliner-linksradikalen-wohnen-noch-bei-mutti-44249918.bildMobile.html#fromWall Enjoy Yeah I'm sure a single sample of people arrested in a single German town is representative of everyone in the world who happens to be left of Ronald Reagan. |
zodd0 said: The more gender roles have been fought, the more freedom women and men have recieved. Why not embrace and respect a man for staying home and caring for his child then? Oh, because that goes against gender roles... I'm not sure where you assume I discourage men from being the primary caretakers. I wouldn't recommend you lump me in with any established political group, in fact my stance of various topics don't fall primarily in one or the other, rather I'm actually shocked there can be such clear polarisation over so many topics. This probably stems from the fact I'm from a country that has a joke of a political landscape, where basically one party runs everything (No... no not China). So I'm pretty much unaligned aside from being very libertarian, acknowledging government is an unnecessary evil which should have limited but sufficient power. |
| If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
BurningSpirit said: I'm not sure where you assume I discourage men from being the primary caretakers. I was alluding to society/people in general. |
zodd0 said: I was alluding to society/people in general. That's their problem, is it not? This is our conversation and I suggest we treat each others as individuals. Society/people in general have an unfortunate inclination to tend towards confirmation bias and trapping themselves in an echo-chamber, rather than read from a variety of sources. It is unfortunate, but people tend to get stuck and behave like a cult. White supremacists (the real ones), extreme strands of feminists, Donald Trump supporters, antifa etc. This is why as Winston Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." |
| If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
_LapisLazuli said: I'm Asian and I still find it weird that westerners care so much about it. In my country, everyone just live together without a problem. Everyone knows everyone's difference but chooses to ignore it, does not bring it up for attention. Honestly, it's really weird. Why don't you guys just get over it? Accept the difference. And please don't force your culture on us :( Aw don't give me the "Asia doesn't need feminism" BS where everything is pink and good. Japan has women-only cars in trains because they fail to teach people not to rape girls. They're not the only asian country in that case either. "just lives together without a problem" yeah right. I still remember that weeb third wave feminist I was working with. She wrote a 2 pages essay on Facebook saying that french men where pigs for looking at her legs when she was wearing a miniskirt, and wanted to emigrate to Japan, the perfect place of equality. The reality check was hard when three different girls came to say "lol u dumb I live in Japan and got followed two hours by a creep on bicycle/groped in the train today, it happens every week" OT: voted yes to piss you off, cringe OP |
DeathkoSep 17, 2017 6:05 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
| @Kistvaen_Mikvoth Do you have better stuff in stock than pseudo studies and funny pictures to convince us? Or are you just another 4chan genius who thinks posting pepe pictures is a political stance? |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
zodd0 said: The things you're stating are products of gender roles. Feminists want to fight gender roles, not preserve them. Anti-feminists on the other hand tend to decribe gender roles as "natural" and obviously don't want to oppose them at all. So as long as gender roles get to dictate society, mens suicide rates will be higher than womens. Men are supposed to be strong and not seek help, while women are perfectly allowed to be weak and help-seeking. Only chauvinists (and those who are joking) are saying such things like "women's place is in the kitchen". We are living in a society, in which woman can be whoever she wants to be, and seek any carrier and education she desires. No one will dismiss her, saying "sorry, but since you are a woman, we can't hire you". Do you honestly believe that patriarchy is trying to keep women locked in kitchen? flannan said: I am not obligated to answer your questions. Nor am I qualified to answer your question. I'm not even much of a feminist - I just hate ignorance and dumbness anti-feminists promote. But most importantly, we both know what the answer is most likely to be - "there are none". So your question is a rhetoric question that doesn't need answering. Do you see this contradiction and hypocrisy? And yes, that question was rhetorical, which will simply force your understanding of 3rd wave feminism. flannan said: Sure. But where do the laws come into this equations? Laws are very much not facts (I can tell you this as a post-soviet survivor), and they don't even create much feelings. Feelings are very basis of feminist movement. You call everything sexist or misogynistic, because they simply disagree witch. They create "safe spaces" and are pro-censorships. They rarely provide reasonable arguments. And when they try, they just embarrass themselves, like their never dying myth of wage gap. Feminists are surrounded by such people, by which would never tell them that they are wrong, so it is worst tragedy for them. flannan said: And I exactly know what 3rd wave feminist is about. Did you learn it all personally, or did you just listen to anti-feminist propaganda by people who want to return people back under the yoke of aristocrats? I had few encounters personally. It is nothing pleasant. Also go watch movie called "The Red Pill (2016)". Really eye-opening. If you think it is propaganda, then instead calling sexism, try to prove it wrong. flannan said: There are people who call themselves "egalitarians". They are people who actively pretend everything is alright with the world, and go on to argue feminism is unnecessary. Except it's a lie. There is no true equality. For example, I've been learning in a moderately prestigious university. We had 1 woman to 5-10 men in the physics department, and 1 man to 5-10 women in the philology department. And it's not like doing physics or philology demands masculinity or femininity in any way. That was no coincidence, and nobody was surprised by that. And it's not like physics department is popular and smarter boys outcompete girls (in fact, the department is underpopulated, and took pretty much everybody who applied). Hence, something, somewhere, must be unequal. 3rd wave feminists think it's all about stereotypes - girls get discouraged from doing physics, and encouraged to do "feminine" things like philology instead. And they set out to correct this. Since I think the world would benefit from more physicists and less philologists (what do they do when they aren't teaching language in school?), I approve of their efforts. No one prevents women from seeking any carrier they want. There are many women in medicine, law, biological science. Even more than men. Why is that? Maybe because man and women have different interests? Same goes for wage gap. The myth of discouragement is yet another opportunity to cry oppression. lady_freyja said: First: your picture, since it mentions "FBI", is about USA I guess. I don't live in USA, but in France. Plus, it's not because something is in the law that it is applied. Like for example, in France up until 2013, women didn't have the right to wear pants, only skirts. It was written in the French law, yet it wasn't applied. This is dumb law, that nobody actually obeyed and was not arrested for. Like you are prohibited to make snowballs in one of the USA states. And women can't drive cars in most Muslim countries. Care to do something about it? lady_freyja said: And I'm not speaking about transgenders specifically, although they are concerned too: life would be easier for them. Just, a women who doesn't shave their body hair is stigmatized. I'm against that. A boy who cry is oftentimes scolded and ridiculed by their surrounding, I'm against that. There is nothing biological about wearing make-up. But since you're a guy, try to wear it, just for fun, to see how people will react around you. Or wearing a skirt (which as far as I know is better for male testicles…) I mean, our behaviors is a result of both biological and societal "constraints" (for the lack of better word), notably our gendered behaviors. Both biological and social sciences are going into that direction. My point is to suppress the social constraints about gender, I consider them noxious. That's all. Well, can't argue with that. But I don't see feminism doing anything to help with that. |
PiromyslSep 17, 2017 6:51 AM
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Piromysl said: Only chauvinists (and those who are joking) are saying such things like "women's place is in the kitchen". We are living in a society, in which woman can be whoever she wants to be, and seek any carrier and education she desires. No one will dismiss her, saying "sorry, but since you are a woman, we can't hire you". Do you honestly believe that patriarchy is trying to keep women locked in kitchen? Your reading comprehension is certainly not the greatest. You might wanna carefully read my post again. |
Zoldra0Sep 17, 2017 6:53 AM
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