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Why are most female characters in shonen garbage?

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Apr 10, 2022 2:40 PM
#251
ZakRaz99
Offline
May 2021
39
JaniSIr said:
ZakRaz99 said:
why is it horrible? I cant think of a a reason any season should be lower than a six

Well, the biggest issue, is that it's repetitive.
The time loop gimmick is repetitive inherently, but then it's also looping the time loops with a very rigid formula.
1. Subaru gets a lucky run through most of the checkpoint and dies at the end.
2. He face plants into all possible stupid ways of dying.
3. Crying episode.
4. Checkpoint gets resolves.
Until the crying episode is over, the plot isn't going to move anywhere, so basically there is no point in watching beyond the first checkpoint.

I also don't like any of the characters. Okay, Echidna is cool. She is like the only character that has any knowledge of the world. Everyone else is like an NPC who sends you on a fetch quest, not knowing that you are trying to save the world from destruction. And that's just in general on top of all the individual issues I'm not going into.
Plus the characters are over the top with their emotional display, can't take it seriously.

And then season 2 started doing a ridiculous amount of flashbacks, that's when I had enough, but apparently it goes on till the end of the season... Though I guess, they can't slow down a plot, that was already standing still for 12 episodes, beyond some tea parties with the only likeable character in the series.
You'll appreciate it when you watch more shows, but idk, can't really trust a domestic gf fan to understand plot. Checkpoint thing doesn't matter, his character develops to not be an idiot through S2p2. Idk which episode you mean by crying episode and one episode doesn't make a show shit. Not liking the characters is fine and ya season 2 was slow but it sounds like you're cherry picking for problems
Apr 10, 2022 3:00 PM
#252
JaniSIr

Offline
Jul 2021
6877
ZakRaz99 said:
JaniSIr said:

Well, the biggest issue, is that it's repetitive.
The time loop gimmick is repetitive inherently, but then it's also looping the time loops with a very rigid formula.
1. Subaru gets a lucky run through most of the checkpoint and dies at the end.
2. He face plants into all possible stupid ways of dying.
3. Crying episode.
4. Checkpoint gets resolves.
Until the crying episode is over, the plot isn't going to move anywhere, so basically there is no point in watching beyond the first checkpoint.

I also don't like any of the characters. Okay, Echidna is cool. She is like the only character that has any knowledge of the world. Everyone else is like an NPC who sends you on a fetch quest, not knowing that you are trying to save the world from destruction. And that's just in general on top of all the individual issues I'm not going into.
Plus the characters are over the top with their emotional display, can't take it seriously.

And then season 2 started doing a ridiculous amount of flashbacks, that's when I had enough, but apparently it goes on till the end of the season... Though I guess, they can't slow down a plot, that was already standing still for 12 episodes, beyond some tea parties with the only likeable character in the series.
You'll appreciate it when you watch more shows, but idk, can't really trust a domestic gf fan to understand plot. Checkpoint thing doesn't matter, his character develops to not be an idiot through S2p2. Idk which episode you mean by crying episode and one episode doesn't make a show shit. Not liking the characters is fine and ya season 2 was slow but it sounds like you're cherry picking for problems

Oh, no, his character totally reset after each check point back to being entirely useless, he didn't really develop up until the point I dropped it.

But I appreciate you looked at my profile for ad-hominem arguments.
Apr 10, 2022 3:44 PM
#253
DreamWindow
ああああああああ

Offline
Apr 2013
5547
I'm not reading through this garbage. I'm just glad that mangaka don't pander to people like OP, who actively hate them.

I'm just going to leave this here, and be on my way.

This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes
Apr 10, 2022 4:23 PM
#254
Kdog1998
Offline
Feb 2022
394
Schwarznight said:
Kdog1998 said:


So, I understand what you are trying to say and you raise some valid points, but what do you mean when you say give some these women actual power. I want you to clarify this because there are many powerful female characters in battle shonen manga and anime in my opinion like the two you mentioned Tsunade and Sakura. So like how powerful do they need to be just in general I am just curios about this?

Also, about there personalities I think to say they have no personality is unfair because even in your reply you called Sakura a cocky and Hinata insecure which are both personality traits unless I am wrong. Now, I do not watch or read AOT or One Piece so I can't really speak on Misaka, Nami, or Boa, so I will take your word on these characters but I am sure they have some personality I would assume lol.

So, it really just seems like many female characters in battle shonen anime and manga do not have personalities you and many other people do not like rather than having none at all, which is not a problem but that does not mean they do not have personalities. Hopefully, what I am saying makes sense.


Problem I have with Tsunade and Sakura is this: Tsunade has a very strong punch...and I can see that this was Kishi's blatant attempt to invert gender stereotypes. The only problem with this is that he failed. While Tsunade has a very strong punch, she is weak overall in the sense that she would not even be in the top 20 fighters for power. Power and strength are different. She can win in an arm wrestle, but her punches would never connect. She was given medical skills...healing, etc., and I think this is a gender stereotype, just like in the real world. Her function on the battlefield is more about healing, as her strength is useless. And Sakura is obsessed about a guy who hated her and even tried to kill her at one point. This is absurd. Just a case of a girl going for the bad boy abusive type. But Tsunade has some interesting characters...She has PTSD or some kind of trauma...after her lover died. And she gambles and suffers from alcoholism. So I will accept that she is interesting. She is interesting, but still weak. Kishi made her intentionally strong, but even here he denied her true power...A strong woman who can't really connect punches against the best male fighters... Grreeeeeat. Failed.

Hinata always 👉👈...and looked coy. Sure, she had personality in the sense that she was weak and insecure...Coming from a famous clan...Being inferior to Neiji... Etc. But this coyness and that finger pointing is just classic waifu bait to get teenagers to wet ther pants. Do you see where I am coming from? Hope the emoji made it clear.

Another interesting thing is that, afaik, none of the female Uchia in Naruto, at least in the original series, seem to have had the sharingan, the ocular powers. Only guys had the cool powers. This is laughabe. Only in Boruto, that garbage spunoff, do you have a female with a sharingan.

Basically, the guys get the cool powers. Women tend to get weaker powers.

The fact that no female in Naruto, other than the final boss (will get into that in minute), is even in the top 20 fighters (just an arbitrary number, give or take) is concerning. I don't care if men are stronger in real life and if they can bench more. There is no excuse here. This is fiction...with magical powers. Not even the top 20? LOL.

The last villain... some female alien...was added just to set up the franchise for Boruto...the sequel. And also because the original villain was too OP. Other than that, she serves no purpose either.

Take a character like Pain (Nagato) in Naruto. His character was explored in depth...His world views, etc. It would be nice if women were given more emotional depth than just some kind of tsundere...bakadere...etc. Many women are coy, there for fanservice, intentionally made weaker...medic/nurse positions, etc. Not all, but most.

In Attack on Titan, Historia married a childhood bully who used to throw rocks at her. How offensive is that? She was then literally thrown out of the story. No relevance whatsoever.


So, I think you make some fair points about each character and I can understand where you are coming from, but I do not entirely agree with everything you said.

So Tsunade is not in the top 20 strongest characters in the series, but I do not find that to be problem considering that fact that a lot of the people in that category are not even human really lol. Also, as you said in your reply she is a medic so when you look at it that way it is not really knock against to not be in the top twenty, and her not being in this tier does not make her weak all it means it that the others are extremely strong lol.

So with Hinata it seems like you just do not like her personality because it very much waifu bait lol. Well I mean I never saw that way, but I see where you are coming from though lol.

Sakura's obsession with Sasuke was overexaggerated in the series I agree with you, I was never a big fan of this aspect of her character. However, I do not think this should over shadow her growth as a character throughout the series because believe she really does improve a lot.

About the Uchiha not having women that is not really a problem because there that many people in the clan in general since they killed off lol. So, I never saw this a problem personally lol.

Men getting all the cool powers over women, I mean I guess that is true lol. Although, that is very much depends on who you ask, and again I do not have problem with these powers being weaker because they are still useful in battle in my opinion.

Well, I mean so the fact there are no women in the top twenty strongest characters in the series is not a problem, because a lot of those characters are not even human lol. So, I can not really be too upset about this personally, and he irony is that the only women in the top twenty is by far the strongest on the list.

I agree with you Kaguya did not serve a great purpose in the series, and personally though the idea of Kaguya was good but the execution was not great but I do not hater her character though.

So, I would say that Tsudnade and Konan were explored as a characters in the series now not to the level of Pain but I would say not even a lot of the men were explored to that level really lol.

Also, I do not see why being women being medics is a bad thing, and this is kind of what I was getting at with my first post. The thing that bothers me is that with female characters who are not strong are some how lesser and there is such a focus on them only being strong. I find this view to be very shallow as it just disregards the contributions of other female characters who are not strong but have great contributions in other areas like healing. From my experience I only see this with female characters in battle shonen series as if it a male like shikamaru who is not necessarily powerful but extremely intelligent, this is praised and he is considered a good and useful character. However, with Tsunade people only focus on her strength and are disappointed with her forgetting that she a medic first, and same thing with Sakura and this the basis for the the whole useless Sakura meme. Hopefully, I explained myself well here, and sorry for the long reply lol.
Apr 10, 2022 4:33 PM
#255
Schwarznight
Offline
Aug 2020
755
Kdog1998 said:
Schwarznight said:


Problem I have with Tsunade and Sakura is this: Tsunade has a very strong punch...and I can see that this was Kishi's blatant attempt to invert gender stereotypes. The only problem with this is that he failed. While Tsunade has a very strong punch, she is weak overall in the sense that she would not even be in the top 20 fighters for power. Power and strength are different. She can win in an arm wrestle, but her punches would never connect. She was given medical skills...healing, etc., and I think this is a gender stereotype, just like in the real world. Her function on the battlefield is more about healing, as her strength is useless. And Sakura is obsessed about a guy who hated her and even tried to kill her at one point. This is absurd. Just a case of a girl going for the bad boy abusive type. But Tsunade has some interesting characters...She has PTSD or some kind of trauma...after her lover died. And she gambles and suffers from alcoholism. So I will accept that she is interesting. She is interesting, but still weak. Kishi made her intentionally strong, but even here he denied her true power...A strong woman who can't really connect punches against the best male fighters... Grreeeeeat. Failed.

Hinata always 👉👈...and looked coy. Sure, she had personality in the sense that she was weak and insecure...Coming from a famous clan...Being inferior to Neiji... Etc. But this coyness and that finger pointing is just classic waifu bait to get teenagers to wet ther pants. Do you see where I am coming from? Hope the emoji made it clear.

Another interesting thing is that, afaik, none of the female Uchia in Naruto, at least in the original series, seem to have had the sharingan, the ocular powers. Only guys had the cool powers. This is laughabe. Only in Boruto, that garbage spunoff, do you have a female with a sharingan.

Basically, the guys get the cool powers. Women tend to get weaker powers.

The fact that no female in Naruto, other than the final boss (will get into that in minute), is even in the top 20 fighters (just an arbitrary number, give or take) is concerning. I don't care if men are stronger in real life and if they can bench more. There is no excuse here. This is fiction...with magical powers. Not even the top 20? LOL.

The last villain... some female alien...was added just to set up the franchise for Boruto...the sequel. And also because the original villain was too OP. Other than that, she serves no purpose either.

Take a character like Pain (Nagato) in Naruto. His character was explored in depth...His world views, etc. It would be nice if women were given more emotional depth than just some kind of tsundere...bakadere...etc. Many women are coy, there for fanservice, intentionally made weaker...medic/nurse positions, etc. Not all, but most.

In Attack on Titan, Historia married a childhood bully who used to throw rocks at her. How offensive is that? She was then literally thrown out of the story. No relevance whatsoever.


So, I think you make some fair points about each character and I can understand where you are coming from, but I do not entirely agree with everything you said.

So Tsunade is not in the top 20 strongest characters in the series, but I do not find that to be problem considering that fact that a lot of the people in that category are not even human really lol. Also, as you said in your reply she is a medic so when you look at it that way it is not really knock against to not be in the top twenty, and her not being in this tier does not make her weak all it means it that the others are extremely strong lol.

So with Hinata it seems like you just do not like her personality because it very much waifu bait lol. Well I mean I never saw that way, but I see where you are coming from though lol.

Sakura's obsession with Sasuke was overexaggerated in the series I agree with you, I was never a big fan of this aspect of her character. However, I do not think this should over shadow her growth as a character throughout the series because believe she really does improve a lot.

About the Uchiha not having women that is not really a problem because there that many people in the clan in general since they killed off lol. So, I never saw this a problem personally lol.

Men getting all the cool powers over women, I mean I guess that is true lol. Although, that is very much depends on who you ask, and again I do not have problem with these powers being weaker because they are still useful in battle in my opinion.

Well, I mean so the fact there are no women in the top twenty strongest characters in the series is not a problem, because a lot of those characters are not even human lol. So, I can not really be too upset about this personally, and he irony is that the only women in the top twenty is by far the strongest on the list.

I agree with you Kaguya did not serve a great purpose in the series, and personally though the idea of Kaguya was good but the execution was not great but I do not hater her character though.

So, I would say that Tsudnade and Konan were explored as a characters in the series now not to the level of Pain but I would say not even a lot of the men were explored to that level really lol.

Also, I do not see why being women being medics is a bad thing, and this is kind of what I was getting at with my first post. The thing that bothers me is that with female characters who are not strong are some how lesser and there is such a focus on them only being strong. I find this view to be very shallow as it just disregards the contributions of other female characters who are not strong but have great contributions in other areas like healing. From my experience I only see this with female characters in battle shonen series as if it a male like shikamaru who is not necessarily powerful but extremely intelligent, this is praised and he is considered a good and useful character. However, with Tsunade people only focus on her strength and are disappointed with her forgetting that she a medic first, and same thing with Sakura and this the basis for the the whole useless Sakura meme. Hopefully, I explained myself well here, and sorry for the long reply lol.



That's a good response. Though I can easily populate the top 20 with humans...Though a few of them are dead. Hashirama...Tobirama... Shisui...Minato... The third Kazekage (Sasori's puppet)...And the list goes on.

Got to remember that she is the head of the village and directly related to Hashirama. So it is disappointing that even here she didn't inherit much from that man. What I find annoying is that it seems as though Kishi intentionally gave her a super punch (to level the playing field) but it fails...since she won't really connect it against any elite fighter. But I agree...Kishi just got carried away and gave all the guys too many OP powers...and then power creep happened. He made Madara so OP...that the dumbest ending ever had to happen with Kaguya.

Nothing wrong with having female medics. But you don't see top male medics. It's kind of sad that even in fiction, stereotypes apply. In the real world...we have female nurses...and receptionists...And the same in fiction? I can't remember 1 male medic with a similar level of skill as Sakura...Tusnade...or Rin (Obita scene). You see the problem here?

Claymore was a breath of fresh air. Teresa was epic. And the females in Bleach were pretty good, too. But even here (in Bleach..not Claymore), ofc the strongest males were much stronger... But still, the females had more depth and could hold their ground against most captains, except a few highly gifted ones.

Edit: I meant that I don't think any of the Uchia women were shown to have the Sharingan...It seemed to be an exclusive power that males inherited...until Boruto happened.
SchwarznightApr 10, 2022 4:40 PM
Apr 10, 2022 6:45 PM
#256
Kdog1998
Offline
Feb 2022
394
Schwarznight said:
Kdog1998 said:


So, I think you make some fair points about each character and I can understand where you are coming from, but I do not entirely agree with everything you said.

So Tsunade is not in the top 20 strongest characters in the series, but I do not find that to be problem considering that fact that a lot of the people in that category are not even human really lol. Also, as you said in your reply she is a medic so when you look at it that way it is not really knock against to not be in the top twenty, and her not being in this tier does not make her weak all it means it that the others are extremely strong lol.

So with Hinata it seems like you just do not like her personality because it very much waifu bait lol. Well I mean I never saw that way, but I see where you are coming from though lol.

Sakura's obsession with Sasuke was overexaggerated in the series I agree with you, I was never a big fan of this aspect of her character. However, I do not think this should over shadow her growth as a character throughout the series because believe she really does improve a lot.

About the Uchiha not having women that is not really a problem because there that many people in the clan in general since they killed off lol. So, I never saw this a problem personally lol.

Men getting all the cool powers over women, I mean I guess that is true lol. Although, that is very much depends on who you ask, and again I do not have problem with these powers being weaker because they are still useful in battle in my opinion.

Well, I mean so the fact there are no women in the top twenty strongest characters in the series is not a problem, because a lot of those characters are not even human lol. So, I can not really be too upset about this personally, and he irony is that the only women in the top twenty is by far the strongest on the list.

I agree with you Kaguya did not serve a great purpose in the series, and personally though the idea of Kaguya was good but the execution was not great but I do not hater her character though.

So, I would say that Tsudnade and Konan were explored as a characters in the series now not to the level of Pain but I would say not even a lot of the men were explored to that level really lol.

Also, I do not see why being women being medics is a bad thing, and this is kind of what I was getting at with my first post. The thing that bothers me is that with female characters who are not strong are some how lesser and there is such a focus on them only being strong. I find this view to be very shallow as it just disregards the contributions of other female characters who are not strong but have great contributions in other areas like healing. From my experience I only see this with female characters in battle shonen series as if it a male like shikamaru who is not necessarily powerful but extremely intelligent, this is praised and he is considered a good and useful character. However, with Tsunade people only focus on her strength and are disappointed with her forgetting that she a medic first, and same thing with Sakura and this the basis for the the whole useless Sakura meme. Hopefully, I explained myself well here, and sorry for the long reply lol.



That's a good response. Though I can easily populate the top 20 with humans...Though a few of them are dead. Hashirama...Tobirama... Shisui...Minato... The third Kazekage (Sasori's puppet)...And the list goes on.

Got to remember that she is the head of the village and directly related to Hashirama. So it is disappointing that even here she didn't inherit much from that man. What I find annoying is that it seems as though Kishi intentionally gave her a super punch (to level the playing field) but it fails...since she won't really connect it against any elite fighter. But I agree...Kishi just got carried away and gave all the guys too many OP powers...and then power creep happened. He made Madara so OP...that the dumbest ending ever had to happen with Kaguya.

Nothing wrong with having female medics. But you don't see top male medics. It's kind of sad that even in fiction, stereotypes apply. In the real world...we have female nurses...and receptionists...And the same in fiction? I can't remember 1 male medic with a similar level of skill as Sakura...Tusnade...or Rin (Obita scene). You see the problem here?

Claymore was a breath of fresh air. Teresa was epic. And the females in Bleach were pretty good, too. But even here (in Bleach..not Claymore), ofc the strongest males were much stronger... But still, the females had more depth and could hold their ground against most captains, except a few highly gifted ones.

Edit: I meant that I don't think any of the Uchia women were shown to have the Sharingan...It seemed to be an exclusive power that males inherited...until Boruto happened.


So, I should have been more specific about the the top twenty strongest characters so a lot of them actually are human technically, but they are not like regular people I would say. Characters like Naruro, Hashirama, Madara, Indra, Ashura, Sasuke, Hagaromo, and Hamura are all human but are eirther reincarnations or directly related to Kaguya. Then you have characters like Kakashi, Obito, Nagato, and Itachi who are also human as well, but have broken hax abilities. That is ten on the top twenty populated by characters who are not normal I think it is fair to say, and then we have actual non humans like Kaguya, Kuruma, and the ten tails. If you want to take Kuruma and the ten tails out of this because of their association to then I will give you that, but if you include them then that is 15 of 20, but not including then that is 13 of 20. Now, form here characters like Might Gai, Minato, Sage Kabuto, and Prime Hiruzen would make the list and these characters are not just regular either. Like Hiruzen knew eevry jutsu in Konoha if remember correctly , Minato was one of the villages greatest prodigies when he was alive ended a war basically by himself and after he died became stronger with the ying half of Kuruma lol. So, I hope you kind of see what I am getting at with this point now the characters in the top twenty may be human, but they aren't regular people I would say so Tsunade not being here is not a knock against her lol.

So, she did not really inherit much from Hashirama which I guess is disappointing, but I think she was his Granddaughter if I remember correctly so I can not be too mad about that personally. Also, it does not always work like that in Naruto because Asuma sensi and Konohamaru were Hiruzen' son and grandson and it really did not help them too much I would say. I do not think Tsunade failing against elite fighters is a problem because there elite fighters and most of characters in the series would to as well that is what makes them elite. Also, as I mentioned before she is a medic by trade so I can not be mad if she cant beat elite fighters in battle in my opinion. Although, I agree with you about the power creep in the war arc was pretty bad though lol.

So, I do not see the problem with this sterotype in general because it based in reality with many women working in these industries, and I can not see why it is bad for women to work in this profession if that is what they chose in my opinion. You are correct about, there being no male medics as good as Sakura and Tsunade, but the same can be said about females too since those two are the best in entire the series. Even as good as Rin was for her age she does not compare to the skill level of Sakura and Tsunade as medics because she did not live for that long unfortunately. Shizune and Granny Chiho are good to but even they do not of similar skill level either because those two are just that good at mediacl ninjustsu lol.

I agree that Bleach had a lot of good female characters, and I have never seen Claymore so I am not aware of Teresa. Twin Star exorcists, Gintama, World Trigger, Black Clover, JJK, D Gray Man, Medaka Box, Chainsaw Man, Boruto, and even Fairy Tail have good or at least decent female characters so it really is not all that uncommon in battle shonen anime and Manga in my opinion. There is just this narrative based on a few characters from a few series which people have run with lol and it is just dishonest in my opinion lol.
Apr 10, 2022 6:59 PM
#257
Schwarznight
Offline
Aug 2020
755
Kdog1998 said:
Schwarznight said:



That's a good response. Though I can easily populate the top 20 with humans...Though a few of them are dead. Hashirama...Tobirama... Shisui...Minato... The third Kazekage (Sasori's puppet)...And the list goes on.

Got to remember that she is the head of the village and directly related to Hashirama. So it is disappointing that even here she didn't inherit much from that man. What I find annoying is that it seems as though Kishi intentionally gave her a super punch (to level the playing field) but it fails...since she won't really connect it against any elite fighter. But I agree...Kishi just got carried away and gave all the guys too many OP powers...and then power creep happened. He made Madara so OP...that the dumbest ending ever had to happen with Kaguya.

Nothing wrong with having female medics. But you don't see top male medics. It's kind of sad that even in fiction, stereotypes apply. In the real world...we have female nurses...and receptionists...And the same in fiction? I can't remember 1 male medic with a similar level of skill as Sakura...Tusnade...or Rin (Obita scene). You see the problem here?

Claymore was a breath of fresh air. Teresa was epic. And the females in Bleach were pretty good, too. But even here (in Bleach..not Claymore), ofc the strongest males were much stronger... But still, the females had more depth and could hold their ground against most captains, except a few highly gifted ones.

Edit: I meant that I don't think any of the Uchia women were shown to have the Sharingan...It seemed to be an exclusive power that males inherited...until Boruto happened.


So, I should have been more specific about the the top twenty strongest characters so a lot of them actually are human technically, but they are not like regular people I would say. Characters like Naruro, Hashirama, Madara, Indra, Ashura, Sasuke, Hagaromo, and Hamura are all human but are eirther reincarnations or directly related to Kaguya. Then you have characters like Kakashi, Obito, Nagato, and Itachi who are also human as well, but have broken hax abilities. That is ten on the top twenty populated by characters who are not normal I think it is fair to say, and then we have actual non humans like Kaguya, Kuruma, and the ten tails. If you want to take Kuruma and the ten tails out of this because of their association to then I will give you that, but if you include them then that is 15 of 20, but not including then that is 13 of 20. Now, form here characters like Might Gai, Minato, Sage Kabuto, and Prime Hiruzen would make the list and these characters are not just regular either. Like Hiruzen knew eevry jutsu in Konoha if remember correctly , Minato was one of the villages greatest prodigies when he was alive ended a war basically by himself and after he died became stronger with the ying half of Kuruma lol. So, I hope you kind of see what I am getting at with this point now the characters in the top twenty may be human, but they aren't regular people I would say so Tsunade not being here is not a knock against her lol.

So, she did not really inherit much from Hashirama which I guess is disappointing, but I think she was his Granddaughter if I remember correctly so I can not be too mad about that personally. Also, it does not always work like that in Naruto because Asuma sensi and Konohamaru were Hiruzen' son and grandson and it really did not help them too much I would say. I do not think Tsunade failing against elite fighters is a problem because there elite fighters and most of characters in the series would to as well that is what makes them elite. Also, as I mentioned before she is a medic by trade so I can not be mad if she cant beat elite fighters in battle in my opinion. Although, I agree with you about the power creep in the war arc was pretty bad though lol.

So, I do not see the problem with this sterotype in general because it based in reality with many women working in these industries, and I can not see why it is bad for women to work in this profession if that is what they chose in my opinion. You are correct about, there being no male medics as good as Sakura and Tsunade, but the same can be said about females too since those two are the best in entire the series. Even as good as Rin was for her age she does not compare to the skill level of Sakura and Tsunade as medics because she did not live for that long unfortunately. Shizune and Granny Chiho are good to but even they do not of similar skill level either because those two are just that good at mediacl ninjustsu lol.

I agree that Bleach had a lot of good female characters, and I have never seen Claymore so I am not aware of Teresa. Twin Star exorcists, Gintama, World Trigger, Black Clover, JJK, D Gray Man, Medaka Box, Chainsaw Man, Boruto, and even Fairy Tail have good or at least decent female characters so it really is not all that uncommon in battle shonen anime and Manga in my opinion. There is just this narrative based on a few characters from a few series which people have run with lol and it is just dishonest in my opinion lol.


Haven't seen Fairy Tail. Can't comment on how the main females progress in terms of personality...and powers. Though I suspect Erza (that's her name?) doesn't make it in the top 20 in her universe either. Bet the top 20 is just filled with dudes and dragons.
Apr 10, 2022 7:14 PM
#258
Kdog1998
Offline
Feb 2022
394
Schwarznight said:
Kdog1998 said:


So, I should have been more specific about the the top twenty strongest characters so a lot of them actually are human technically, but they are not like regular people I would say. Characters like Naruro, Hashirama, Madara, Indra, Ashura, Sasuke, Hagaromo, and Hamura are all human but are eirther reincarnations or directly related to Kaguya. Then you have characters like Kakashi, Obito, Nagato, and Itachi who are also human as well, but have broken hax abilities. That is ten on the top twenty populated by characters who are not normal I think it is fair to say, and then we have actual non humans like Kaguya, Kuruma, and the ten tails. If you want to take Kuruma and the ten tails out of this because of their association to then I will give you that, but if you include them then that is 15 of 20, but not including then that is 13 of 20. Now, form here characters like Might Gai, Minato, Sage Kabuto, and Prime Hiruzen would make the list and these characters are not just regular either. Like Hiruzen knew eevry jutsu in Konoha if remember correctly , Minato was one of the villages greatest prodigies when he was alive ended a war basically by himself and after he died became stronger with the ying half of Kuruma lol. So, I hope you kind of see what I am getting at with this point now the characters in the top twenty may be human, but they aren't regular people I would say so Tsunade not being here is not a knock against her lol.

So, she did not really inherit much from Hashirama which I guess is disappointing, but I think she was his Granddaughter if I remember correctly so I can not be too mad about that personally. Also, it does not always work like that in Naruto because Asuma sensi and Konohamaru were Hiruzen' son and grandson and it really did not help them too much I would say. I do not think Tsunade failing against elite fighters is a problem because there elite fighters and most of characters in the series would to as well that is what makes them elite. Also, as I mentioned before she is a medic by trade so I can not be mad if she cant beat elite fighters in battle in my opinion. Although, I agree with you about the power creep in the war arc was pretty bad though lol.

So, I do not see the problem with this sterotype in general because it based in reality with many women working in these industries, and I can not see why it is bad for women to work in this profession if that is what they chose in my opinion. You are correct about, there being no male medics as good as Sakura and Tsunade, but the same can be said about females too since those two are the best in entire the series. Even as good as Rin was for her age she does not compare to the skill level of Sakura and Tsunade as medics because she did not live for that long unfortunately. Shizune and Granny Chiho are good to but even they do not of similar skill level either because those two are just that good at mediacl ninjustsu lol.

I agree that Bleach had a lot of good female characters, and I have never seen Claymore so I am not aware of Teresa. Twin Star exorcists, Gintama, World Trigger, Black Clover, JJK, D Gray Man, Medaka Box, Chainsaw Man, Boruto, and even Fairy Tail have good or at least decent female characters so it really is not all that uncommon in battle shonen anime and Manga in my opinion. There is just this narrative based on a few characters from a few series which people have run with lol and it is just dishonest in my opinion lol.


Haven't seen Fairy Tail. Can't comment on how the main females progress in terms of personality...and powers. Though I suspect Erza (that's her name?) doesn't make it in the top 20 in her universe either. Bet the top 20 is just filled with dudes and dragons.


From what I remember I think she would actually be somewhere in the top ten really lol but I could be wrong about that though; however, I am confident she makes the top twenty though.
Apr 10, 2022 7:50 PM
#259
SparkingVolt

Offline
Jan 2017
783
Schwarznight said:
How come mangakas are incapable of creating solid female characters. Take Kishimoto (mangaka of Naruto) for example. Literally every female in his show just exists to be a love interest or to be protected. Sakura is weak af, all things considered. Tsunade is a pathetic Hokage. The coolest and strongest characters are the guys. The most complex characters tend to be guys (take Itachi...Pain...etc, as an example). This is not a problem that is exclusive to Naruto either. What happened to solid female characters, who are complex, and who could wreck their male counterparts? Even the female characters from AoT are garbage overall when compared to the best male characters.

Claymore was okay, though.


cause men who write shounen manga dont see women as people therefore they cannot write women as actual humans, it sucks
you're cool
Apr 10, 2022 7:52 PM
#260
SparkingVolt

Offline
Jan 2017
783
Sakuta002766 said:
Schwarznight said:


lmao. that's funny. i think most male mangakas are incels

Your thread is already pretty cringe and now you're insulting mangakas by calling them incels


sorry that its disgusting the way female characters are written in most anime, nothing cringe about acknowledging that fact
you're cool
Apr 10, 2022 8:12 PM
#261
Sonson7
Offline
May 2020
264
Schwarznight said:
Kdog1998 said:


So, I understand what you are trying to say and you raise some valid points, but what do you mean when you say give some these women actual power. I want you to clarify this because there are many powerful female characters in battle shonen manga and anime in my opinion like the two you mentioned Tsunade and Sakura. So like how powerful do they need to be just in general I am just curios about this?

Also, about there personalities I think to say they have no personality is unfair because even in your reply you called Sakura a cocky and Hinata insecure which are both personality traits unless I am wrong. Now, I do not watch or read AOT or One Piece so I can't really speak on Misaka, Nami, or Boa, so I will take your word on these characters but I am sure they have some personality I would assume lol.

So, it really just seems like many female characters in battle shonen anime and manga do not have personalities you and many other people do not like rather than having none at all, which is not a problem but that does not mean they do not have personalities. Hopefully, what I am saying makes sense.


Problem I have with Tsunade and Sakura is this: Tsunade has a very strong punch...and I can see that this was Kishi's blatant attempt to invert gender stereotypes. The only problem with this is that he failed. While Tsunade has a very strong punch, she is weak overall in the sense that she would not even be in the top 20 fighters for power. Power and strength are different. She can win in an arm wrestle, but her punches would never connect. She was given medical skills...healing, etc., and I think this is a gender stereotype, just like in the real world. Her function on the battlefield is more about healing, as her strength is useless. And Sakura is obsessed about a guy who hated her and even tried to kill her at one point. This is absurd. Just a case of a girl going for the bad boy abusive type. But Tsunade has some interesting characters...She has PTSD or some kind of trauma...after her lover died. And she gambles and suffers from alcoholism. So I will accept that she is interesting. She is interesting, but still weak. Kishi made her intentionally strong, but even here he denied her true power...A strong woman who can't really connect punches against the best male fighters... Grreeeeeat. Failed.

Hinata always 👉👈...and looked coy. Sure, she had personality in the sense that she was weak and insecure...Coming from a famous clan...Being inferior to Neiji... Etc. But this coyness and that finger pointing is just classic waifu bait to get teenagers to wet ther pants. Do you see where I am coming from? Hope the emoji made it clear.

Another interesting thing is that, afaik, none of the female Uchia in Naruto, at least in the original series, seem to have had the sharingan, the ocular powers. Only guys had the cool powers. This is laughabe. Only in Boruto, that garbage spunoff, do you have a female with a sharingan.

Basically, the guys get the cool powers. Women tend to get weaker powers.

The fact that no female in Naruto, other than the final boss (will get into that in minute), is even in the top 20 fighters (just an arbitrary number, give or take) is concerning. I don't care if men are stronger in real life and if they can bench more. There is no excuse here. This is fiction...with magical powers. Not even the top 20? LOL.

The last villain... some female alien...was added just to set up the franchise for Boruto...the sequel. And also because the original villain was too OP. Other than that, she serves no purpose either.

Take a character like Pain (Nagato) in Naruto. His character was explored in depth...His world views, etc. It would be nice if women were given more emotional depth than just some kind of tsundere...bakadere...etc. Many women are coy, there for fanservice, intentionally made weaker...medic/nurse positions, etc. Not all, but most.

In Attack on Titan, Historia married a childhood bully who used to throw rocks at her. How offensive is that? She was then literally thrown out of the story. No relevance whatsoever.

I think you have a shrewd view on what makes a good female character though. Like any characters in general don't need to be "the strongest", the most hypest etc. Etc. For them to be "good character".

From many of the female characters you have been spouting about. A lot of them are given emotionally driven backgrounds.
I can also see, you immediately shove them as bad when you obviously just don't like the type of trauma, or trope they are purposely used for. You don't like when they cry or when they have time they are in distress or need help. You probably will hate any male characters when they recieve the same story arcs. You also deem a series to just have all bad female characters when your comments just screams you just want "Mikasa" or "Historia" to be this and that. I mean Hange has been consitently a good character, Gabi is a good character, heck Sasha transcended her original purpose to be "just a comic relief character and has one of Aot's most impactful death. (I also don't entirely view Mikasa nor Historia's character as just bad mostly because I vibe with the psychological story they present which you obviously don't like).

I also read some of your comments and I can see that you just specifically mainly just want a female character that can beat the crap out of a strong male character. Like I can see that if Tsunade actually was the strongest Kage ever then you will consider her great female character just by that.

Also ot being "shonen" is the biggest factor. Same way that you can feel that most male characters in a "shojou" story are either gonna look very bishounen etc. Etc. Heck even a lot of shojou manga make majority of its female character bad to make the female lead standout. A lot of times shojou protagonist are bullied female characters and exist to make the shojou mc's life terrible so that the bishounen male mc save the shojo protagonist.
Manga wise even if authors do make female mc in a battle shonen, even if the story has potential, the demand and its reach for audience is low that those series eventually gets cancelled. Red hood is recent example.
In Bleach if fans Just let Kubo kill off Byakuya, then Rukia defeating As nodt will mean so much more. But fan demand butcher that Rukia story arc so.. yes sometimes the author is just not good at female characters but sometimes the fans play some part in it too.


I suggest you just go look for a battle oriented shoujo manga or an otome battle story. And your wishes might just be fulfilled. Or just look for any good Gacha story, and most of the powerful characters in there anyways are female waifus and the story do make them the central focus.

Though to be fair female side characters from shonen manga is much more compelling than female side characters in shojo manga.

Anyways just read Dandadan, its full of good strong female characters. Female villains thus far are all compelling and strong. The Female deuteragonist is the stronger one, the male MC is powered by an op Granny(so still female powered)
Chainsawman has a lot of strong female characters and other series too. But then again it eventually depends on whether you like the stories integrated on those characters.
Sonson7Apr 10, 2022 8:44 PM
Apr 10, 2022 10:21 PM
#262
darkness-below

Offline
Jun 2021
23
good job to the MAL community on making this stupid fucking thread go to the top of popular
Apr 11, 2022 1:46 AM
#263
SofiaBulga

Offline
Oct 2008
8484
Well I know it'll sound like a dumbass reason but:

Shounen (meant boy in japanese right). So I guess for that reason they don't mind females in this genre, not having much personality, if any.
Apr 11, 2022 5:28 AM
#264
Luthandorius

Offline
Dec 2015
3193
I think it is because the main target audience is male. While it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to write bad female characters ... from a economic point of view I guess it is still is easier.

Especially with that male target audiene being younger usually. (At least the customers in Japan buying those manga magazines.) Some "cool" male main character is enough to sell an anime. Cool action, nice fights.

Why bother spending time to think about how to write well?

On a side note: I pretty often dislike main chars. And female chars. Even in western productions and - especially - in western movies based on novels created by a female author. With target audience "young people". They oftten write some cool/fancy setting but when it comes to characters they are pretty generic.

The female ends up getting made "strong" or "special" so they can also get female readers interested in reading it. But in the end it seems like a lot of the younger females still like stuff like "being saved by a strong guy" (that is why there usually is a male char as well that is even stronger).

At anime ... the seinen (cause of older target audience) usually is better. Some female writers (mangaka) are not too bad - even with male chars. (Shigatsu no Lion with good male characters.)

Best female char in fictional works that comes to my mind ... is Kim Wexler from the western (US) tv series "Better Call Saul". And I usually do not really like US stuff that much. (Even prefer German stuff that a lot of people here hate. :D Most like the generic US super heroes movies.) Even liked that series better than Breaking Bad. (Though I dislike the US judicial system and feared it might be worse but it has the best written chars I have ever seen so far. Also the mal main is great. And the focus is on characters and not the law and trials at court.)

We already could see there that - afaik - Better Call Saul is selling not as good as Breaking Bad. Less "action" and "coolness". (Glad though it still managed to get a lot of seasons. A real piece of art. And I rarely would consider entertainment stuff as "art".)
Apr 11, 2022 6:43 AM
#265
Schwarznight
Offline
Aug 2020
755
Sonson7 said:
Schwarznight said:


Problem I have with Tsunade and Sakura is this: Tsunade has a very strong punch...and I can see that this was Kishi's blatant attempt to invert gender stereotypes. The only problem with this is that he failed. While Tsunade has a very strong punch, she is weak overall in the sense that she would not even be in the top 20 fighters for power. Power and strength are different. She can win in an arm wrestle, but her punches would never connect. She was given medical skills...healing, etc., and I think this is a gender stereotype, just like in the real world. Her function on the battlefield is more about healing, as her strength is useless. And Sakura is obsessed about a guy who hated her and even tried to kill her at one point. This is absurd. Just a case of a girl going for the bad boy abusive type. But Tsunade has some interesting characters...She has PTSD or some kind of trauma...after her lover died. And she gambles and suffers from alcoholism. So I will accept that she is interesting. She is interesting, but still weak. Kishi made her intentionally strong, but even here he denied her true power...A strong woman who can't really connect punches against the best male fighters... Grreeeeeat. Failed.

Hinata always 👉👈...and looked coy. Sure, she had personality in the sense that she was weak and insecure...Coming from a famous clan...Being inferior to Neiji... Etc. But this coyness and that finger pointing is just classic waifu bait to get teenagers to wet ther pants. Do you see where I am coming from? Hope the emoji made it clear.

Another interesting thing is that, afaik, none of the female Uchia in Naruto, at least in the original series, seem to have had the sharingan, the ocular powers. Only guys had the cool powers. This is laughabe. Only in Boruto, that garbage spunoff, do you have a female with a sharingan.

Basically, the guys get the cool powers. Women tend to get weaker powers.

The fact that no female in Naruto, other than the final boss (will get into that in minute), is even in the top 20 fighters (just an arbitrary number, give or take) is concerning. I don't care if men are stronger in real life and if they can bench more. There is no excuse here. This is fiction...with magical powers. Not even the top 20? LOL.

The last villain... some female alien...was added just to set up the franchise for Boruto...the sequel. And also because the original villain was too OP. Other than that, she serves no purpose either.

Take a character like Pain (Nagato) in Naruto. His character was explored in depth...His world views, etc. It would be nice if women were given more emotional depth than just some kind of tsundere...bakadere...etc. Many women are coy, there for fanservice, intentionally made weaker...medic/nurse positions, etc. Not all, but most.

In Attack on Titan, Historia married a childhood bully who used to throw rocks at her. How offensive is that? She was then literally thrown out of the story. No relevance whatsoever.

I think you have a shrewd view on what makes a good female character though. Like any characters in general don't need to be "the strongest", the most hypest etc. Etc. For them to be "good character".

From many of the female characters you have been spouting about. A lot of them are given emotionally driven backgrounds.
I can also see, you immediately shove them as bad when you obviously just don't like the type of trauma, or trope they are purposely used for. You don't like when they cry or when they have time they are in distress or need help. You probably will hate any male characters when they recieve the same story arcs. You also deem a series to just have all bad female characters when your comments just screams you just want "Mikasa" or "Historia" to be this and that. I mean Hange has been consitently a good character, Gabi is a good character, heck Sasha transcended her original purpose to be "just a comic relief character and has one of Aot's most impactful death. (I also don't entirely view Mikasa nor Historia's character as just bad mostly because I vibe with the psychological story they present which you obviously don't like).

I also read some of your comments and I can see that you just specifically mainly just want a female character that can beat the crap out of a strong male character. Like I can see that if Tsunade actually was the strongest Kage ever then you will consider her great female character just by that.

Also ot being "shonen" is the biggest factor. Same way that you can feel that most male characters in a "shojou" story are either gonna look very bishounen etc. Etc. Heck even a lot of shojou manga make majority of its female character bad to make the female lead standout. A lot of times shojou protagonist are bullied female characters and exist to make the shojou mc's life terrible so that the bishounen male mc save the shojo protagonist.
Manga wise even if authors do make female mc in a battle shonen, even if the story has potential, the demand and its reach for audience is low that those series eventually gets cancelled. Red hood is recent example.
In Bleach if fans Just let Kubo kill off Byakuya, then Rukia defeating As nodt will mean so much more. But fan demand butcher that Rukia story arc so.. yes sometimes the author is just not good at female characters but sometimes the fans play some part in it too.


I suggest you just go look for a battle oriented shoujo manga or an otome battle story. And your wishes might just be fulfilled. Or just look for any good Gacha story, and most of the powerful characters in there anyways are female waifus and the story do make them the central focus.

Though to be fair female side characters from shonen manga is much more compelling than female side characters in shojo manga.

Anyways just read Dandadan, its full of good strong female characters. Female villains thus far are all compelling and strong. The Female deuteragonist is the stronger one, the male MC is powered by an op Granny(so still female powered)
Chainsawman has a lot of strong female characters and other series too. But then again it eventually depends on whether you like the stories integrated on those characters.



Actually, Hange's character has deteriorated in the recent season, but so has the entire show. Motives are all over the place. But this is not just a problem with her. Isayama just did multiple character assassinations at the end. Sasha didn't have that much depth. Let's be honest. She is still potato girl. Even her dying words are to do with food. I didn't say all female characters are garbage. I said most. Later on in the thread, I also put reasons why this might be the case...More guys than girls...so easier to see the flaws in the girls, etc.


Thanks for the recommendations, btw.

* Nowhere did I say that Tsunade had to be the strongest kage. All I said is that don't just give her super strength if it's not going to matter anyway. It's a lame ability, considering it doesn't work against like most of the best fighters.
SchwarznightApr 11, 2022 6:47 AM
Apr 11, 2022 7:33 AM
#266
Grazoroa

Offline
Feb 2022
21
Because they're created just to please the reader desire. They're not made to be useful or add anything to the series. They're made to be fan service.
Apr 11, 2022 7:47 AM
#267
BlueEmbers

Offline
Oct 2018
47
I mean the entire point of OP's complaint is asking why women, in a genre intended to be masculine geared, aren't more like men? That is a bit insulting isn't it? But yes, there is a mysogyny problem in Japan, and anime in general. I mean look at Mushoku Tensei, an appauling series of toxic masculinity, creepiness, and female degradation, and it knocks out a 8.3 rating. That is SO gross and telling about what the masses put thier money on.

Conersely, imagine going to a Josei/SoL genre and being like, "Why can't the men in these girly series be as girly as all the women? What are they incapable of being feminine and sensitive?"

And the answer is that making a female character as a character model and scripting her to be a man in execution is a great way to make her a garbage character. No one is asking for a man to pretend to be a authentic woman, or a woman to pretend to be a man. Audiences know what they want, and good mangaka an studio directors know that too.
"I am sure that you out of all people could never understand the feelings of someone who doesn't know what it feels like to make an effort." - Nanami, Katanagari
Apr 11, 2022 9:55 AM
#268
Mele
The Priest Esser

Offline
Nov 2011
432
Obviously because men wrote them lmao
idk why I was here but I'm prob back to playing Dragon's Dogma 2 again when you read this

Apr 11, 2022 10:04 AM
#269
Schwarznight
Offline
Aug 2020
755
BlueEmbers said:
I mean the entire point of OP's complaint is asking why women, in a genre intended to be masculine geared, aren't more like men? That is a bit insulting isn't it? But yes, there is a mysogyny problem in Japan, and anime in general. I mean look at Mushoku Tensei, an appauling series of toxic masculinity, creepiness, and female degradation, and it knocks out a 8.3 rating. That is SO gross and telling about what the masses put thier money on.

Conersely, imagine going to a Josei/SoL genre and being like, "Why can't the men in these girly series be as girly as all the women? What are they incapable of being feminine and sensitive?"


And the answer is that making a female character as a character model and scripting her to be a man in execution is a great way to make her a garbage character. No one is asking for a man to pretend to be a authentic woman, or a woman to pretend to be a man. Audiences know what they want, and good mangaka an studio directors know that too.



That is not what I said, but okay.... Keep twisting it. People seem to think that my complaint is only about their abilities. No, a lot of female characters are also cardboards in terms of their emotional depth...Lots of gender stereotypes...And coyness, etc.
Apr 11, 2022 10:29 AM
#270
BlueEmbers

Offline
Oct 2018
47
Schwarznight said:
That is not what I said, but okay.... Keep twisting it. People seem to think that my complaint is only about their abilities. No, a lot of female characters are also cardboards in terms of their emotional depth...Lots of gender stereotypes...And coyness, etc.

Lets break this down using your OP;

Schwarznight said:
How come mangakas are incapable of creating solid female characters. Take Kishimoto (mangaka of Naruto) for example. Literally every female in his show just exists to be a love interest or to be protected. Sakura is weak af, all things considered. Tsunade is a pathetic Hokage. The coolest and strongest characters are the guys. The most complex characters tend to be guys (take Itachi...Pain...etc, as an example). This is not a problem that is exclusive to Naruto either. What happened to solid female characters, who are complex, and who could wreck their male counterparts? Even the female characters from AoT are garbage overall when compared to the best male characters.

Claymore was okay, though.



"Literally every female in his show just exists to be a love interest or to be protected."
-Shounens are meant to be masculine and men think women who are feminine should be protected. Shounen have male MC's and women serve as character development.

"The coolest and strongest characters are the guys. ", "What happened to solid female characters, who are complex, and who could wreck their male counterparts?"
-You basically just validated my point, strength is a direct factor in character worth to you. Why does a woman need to be violent in order prove thier value? That is a very male way of seeing it, and that is why it marketed to a male audience.

" No, a lot of female characters are also cardboards in terms of their emotional depth...Lots of gender stereotypes...And coyness, etc."
-Naruto first seasons are literally him turning into naked women to piss off women and fluster men as a JOKE. Itachi read hentai magazines casually in the open. Does not conflict with them being male stereotypes themselves?

Bottom line is that Shounens are for male audiences and they will play everycard to pander that audience - which means making female characters feminine and by using them as a way of leveraging the masculinity of the male counterparts, which makes them boil down to being a bunch of Princess Peach's.

If you want a good example of a strong female lead, Violet Evergarden embodies it extremely well. Her depth as a character and her demonstration of strength comes in the sense of rejecting violence and glory despite having been a soldier exposed to horrific events and having accomplished herself during that time. She literally tells people that there is nothing to be proud of in the accomplishments of violence. That flies in the face of the narrative style of Naruto/Shounen genres.

Also, knowing that male audience, a female who could defeat a male powerhouse in a power-based fight would SERIOUSLY undermine his credibility. That means she'd likely be a antagonist, which destines her to be defeated.
BlueEmbersApr 11, 2022 11:05 AM
"I am sure that you out of all people could never understand the feelings of someone who doesn't know what it feels like to make an effort." - Nanami, Katanagari
Apr 11, 2022 11:08 AM
#271
GarouWolf

Offline
Oct 2021
725
No way i'm reading all of this o.O

But the simple answer is because that is what the mangaka wants to, yes it's very based I know but that is the way it is (thankfully)

Also I'm currently watching Chrno Crusade, a shounen where a woman is the protagonist and has to protect her weak ill brother. She is a nun who doesn't respect the rules of the church, and a badass who is not afraid of any demon. She is also sexy af :)
Apr 11, 2022 11:27 AM
#272
boyboss
Offline
Nov 2021
44
Because most are written by men and they serve as decorations to the narrative. Pretty fanservice machines for fans to thirst over and to support and/or motivate the male leads. They're never intended to be real characters with agency in the context of the story. It's gross.
Apr 11, 2022 12:25 PM
#273
Slimsith
Offline
May 2021
1093
Zanfroni said:
Slimsith said:


Okay, maybe I asked an example of well written female characters.

Are the female characters in Black Lagoon, Jormungand, Parasyte the Maxim, Whispered Words and Re:Creators well written?

So I provided examples, because Naruto and SnK/AoT get clipped in the nuts and apparently have shitty female characters, I disagree because I believe Annie is the shit, but I have too many blondes as favorites.


I haven't watched any of the anime you cited as an example but I've seen plenty of great female characters, and I'm pretty sure your choices are good as well.

The more I read this thread, the more I realize OP is only targeting Naruto and Attack on Titan (especially Attack on Titan) about this topic and is creating an imaginary problem than providing actual solutions.

The reason I abandoned this thread is because OP is mostly projecting and name calling Isayama because he didn't like the way two characters were written. This is not constructive at all, it's toxic. There's no point in discussing.


Well, hopefully what I listed may move the discussion into well written characters.
I was trying to find this post specifically, but yeah it looks like a fandom fight and since I last posted it's been a few days and this Topic has a couple more pages.

Other people have posted Black Lagoon as well because there are strong characters in that series and the females eclipse the guys as far as the action stars, but I think it's a well balanced anime for anyone who's 16 or older.

The other titles shouldn't do the gender dirty either, I seriously can't comment on something that's well written/trash because anime is a group effort and no one really knows how an anime project will turn out.

In the case of Re:Creators, it had alot of greats in the field in coming together to make it, but people have overlooked it, or it just went under the radar.

Whispered Words aka Sasameki Koto is the only one that's not an action/sci-fi/adventure anime, I shouldn't have included, but I did for the sake of Parasyte-the Maxim and IMO, I think it was a GREAT anime.
Apr 11, 2022 1:24 PM
#274
Schwarznight
Offline
Aug 2020
755
BlueEmbers said:
Schwarznight said:
That is not what I said, but okay.... Keep twisting it. People seem to think that my complaint is only about their abilities. No, a lot of female characters are also cardboards in terms of their emotional depth...Lots of gender stereotypes...And coyness, etc.

Lets break this down using your OP;

Schwarznight said:
How come mangakas are incapable of creating solid female characters. Take Kishimoto (mangaka of Naruto) for example. Literally every female in his show just exists to be a love interest or to be protected. Sakura is weak af, all things considered. Tsunade is a pathetic Hokage. The coolest and strongest characters are the guys. The most complex characters tend to be guys (take Itachi...Pain...etc, as an example). This is not a problem that is exclusive to Naruto either. What happened to solid female characters, who are complex, and who could wreck their male counterparts? Even the female characters from AoT are garbage overall when compared to the best male characters.

Claymore was okay, though.



"Literally every female in his show just exists to be a love interest or to be protected."
-Shounens are meant to be masculine and men think women who are feminine should be protected. Shounen have male MC's and women serve as character development.

"The coolest and strongest characters are the guys. ", "What happened to solid female characters, who are complex, and who could wreck their male counterparts?"
-You basically just validated my point, strength is a direct factor in character worth to you. Why does a woman need to be violent in order prove thier value? That is a very male way of seeing it, and that is why it marketed to a male audience.

" No, a lot of female characters are also cardboards in terms of their emotional depth...Lots of gender stereotypes...And coyness, etc."
-Naruto first seasons are literally him turning into naked women to piss off women and fluster men as a JOKE. Itachi read hentai magazines casually in the open. Does not conflict with them being male stereotypes themselves?

Bottom line is that Shounens are for male audiences and they will play everycard to pander that audience - which means making female characters feminine and by using them as a way of leveraging the masculinity of the male counterparts, which makes them boil down to being a bunch of Princess Peach's.

If you want a good example of a strong female lead, Violet Evergarden embodies it extremely well. Her depth as a character and her demonstration of strength comes in the sense of rejecting violence and glory despite having been a soldier exposed to horrific events and having accomplished herself during that time. She literally tells people that there is nothing to be proud of in the accomplishments of violence. That flies in the face of the narrative style of Naruto/Shounen genres.

Also, knowing that male audience, a female who could defeat a male powerhouse in a power-based fight would SERIOUSLY undermine his credibility. That means she'd likely be a antagonist, which destines her to be defeated.


Itachi read hentai magazines? No way. Are you sure it is not kakashi? Only he is mainly carrying a book around. Possibly jiraiya. Itachi wouldn't it. Doesn't fit his character.

Women don't have to be violent. They can be strong and a pacifist, and only fight as required. I didn't mean go around smashing skulls. Take Teresa from Claymore. They don't have to be the strongest either. But since this is all fictional, I don't see why they can't be a bit more relevant in offence during war, for example.

I agree with your other points.

Shounen caters for boys mainly. Authors have little incentive to give depth to females. If they can make a lot of money by just putting a hot damsel in distress, then that is what they will do.

Mikasa in attack on titan is a powerhouse. But she still sucks. Almost no character development over all these seasons. She is strong, and that's it.
Apr 11, 2022 1:43 PM
#275
UberBat

Offline
Jan 2008
2641
Reading this thread and you know what I miss? Female grunts in shounen. You've got strong females and weak females but the female characters are more often then not emphasised in some way or another.

Like in World Trigger. There is almost entirely exclusive male grunts in the teams and female representation is behind a screen in a physically passive role.
The few female fighters there are have something focused in particular about them. Either as plot relevance or specific fighting prowess.
Apr 11, 2022 6:39 PM
#276
Smordola

Offline
Jul 2011
365
This thread is a slog to read through. But anyone mentioning Fairy Tail with that plot-armor Mary Sue Erza...just no. There's better female characters than that frog.
Apr 11, 2022 7:48 PM
#277
TheBlackPlague
Offline
Jul 2016
335
Sonson7 said:
Schwarznight said:


Problem I have with Tsunade and Sakura is this: Tsunade has a very strong punch...and I can see that this was Kishi's blatant attempt to invert gender stereotypes. The only problem with this is that he failed. While Tsunade has a very strong punch, she is weak overall in the sense that she would not even be in the top 20 fighters for power. Power and strength are different. She can win in an arm wrestle, but her punches would never connect. She was given medical skills...healing, etc., and I think this is a gender stereotype, just like in the real world. Her function on the battlefield is more about healing, as her strength is useless. And Sakura is obsessed about a guy who hated her and even tried to kill her at one point. This is absurd. Just a case of a girl going for the bad boy abusive type. But Tsunade has some interesting characters...She has PTSD or some kind of trauma...after her lover died. And she gambles and suffers from alcoholism. So I will accept that she is interesting. She is interesting, but still weak. Kishi made her intentionally strong, but even here he denied her true power...A strong woman who can't really connect punches against the best male fighters... Grreeeeeat. Failed.

Hinata always 👉👈...and looked coy. Sure, she had personality in the sense that she was weak and insecure...Coming from a famous clan...Being inferior to Neiji... Etc. But this coyness and that finger pointing is just classic waifu bait to get teenagers to wet ther pants. Do you see where I am coming from? Hope the emoji made it clear.

Another interesting thing is that, afaik, none of the female Uchia in Naruto, at least in the original series, seem to have had the sharingan, the ocular powers. Only guys had the cool powers. This is laughabe. Only in Boruto, that garbage spunoff, do you have a female with a sharingan.

Basically, the guys get the cool powers. Women tend to get weaker powers.

The fact that no female in Naruto, other than the final boss (will get into that in minute), is even in the top 20 fighters (just an arbitrary number, give or take) is concerning. I don't care if men are stronger in real life and if they can bench more. There is no excuse here. This is fiction...with magical powers. Not even the top 20? LOL.

The last villain... some female alien...was added just to set up the franchise for Boruto...the sequel. And also because the original villain was too OP. Other than that, she serves no purpose either.

Take a character like Pain (Nagato) in Naruto. His character was explored in depth...His world views, etc. It would be nice if women were given more emotional depth than just some kind of tsundere...bakadere...etc. Many women are coy, there for fanservice, intentionally made weaker...medic/nurse positions, etc. Not all, but most.

In Attack on Titan, Historia married a childhood bully who used to throw rocks at her. How offensive is that? She was then literally thrown out of the story. No relevance whatsoever.

I think you have a shrewd view on what makes a good female character though. Like any characters in general don't need to be "the strongest", the most hypest etc. Etc. For them to be "good character".

From many of the female characters you have been spouting about. A lot of them are given emotionally driven backgrounds.
I can also see, you immediately shove them as bad when you obviously just don't like the type of trauma, or trope they are purposely used for. You don't like when they cry or when they have time they are in distress or need help. You probably will hate any male characters when they recieve the same story arcs. You also deem a series to just have all bad female characters when your comments just screams you just want "Mikasa" or "Historia" to be this and that. I mean Hange has been consitently a good character, Gabi is a good character, heck Sasha transcended her original purpose to be "just a comic relief character and has one of Aot's most impactful death. (I also don't entirely view Mikasa nor Historia's character as just bad mostly because I vibe with the psychological story they present which you obviously don't like).

I also read some of your comments and I can see that you just specifically mainly just want a female character that can beat the crap out of a strong male character. Like I can see that if Tsunade actually was the strongest Kage ever then you will consider her great female character just by that.

Also ot being "shonen" is the biggest factor. Same way that you can feel that most male characters in a "shojou" story are either gonna look very bishounen etc. Etc. Heck even a lot of shojou manga make majority of its female character bad to make the female lead standout. A lot of times shojou protagonist are bullied female characters and exist to make the shojou mc's life terrible so that the bishounen male mc save the shojo protagonist.
Manga wise even if authors do make female mc in a battle shonen, even if the story has potential, the demand and its reach for audience is low that those series eventually gets cancelled. Red hood is recent example.
In Bleach if fans Just let Kubo kill off Byakuya, then Rukia defeating As nodt will mean so much more. But fan demand butcher that Rukia story arc so.. yes sometimes the author is just not good at female characters but sometimes the fans play some part in it too.


I suggest you just go look for a battle oriented shoujo manga or an otome battle story. And your wishes might just be fulfilled. Or just look for any good Gacha story, and most of the powerful characters in there anyways are female waifus and the story do make them the central focus.

Though to be fair female side characters from shonen manga is much more compelling than female side characters in shojo manga.

Anyways just read Dandadan, its full of good strong female characters. Female villains thus far are all compelling and strong. The Female deuteragonist is the stronger one, the male MC is powered by an op Granny(so still female powered)
Chainsawman has a lot of strong female characters and other series too. But then again it eventually depends on whether you like the stories integrated on those characters.


You know, while you have some really good points, i honestly dont think that was the reason why Red Hood was cancelled tbh. Because if you were reading it at the time you would know the TERRIBLE pacing problems it had plus the very messy structure, which made the series overall hard to sell to the audience imo. I think these factors have extremely much more weight than just having a strong female as MC

Also regarding Dandadan, are you sure Momo is the deuteragonist? because to me she gives me more MC vibe and focus than Okarun.
Apr 11, 2022 9:50 PM
#278
Sonson7
Offline
May 2020
264
TheBlackPlague said:
Sonson7 said:

I think you have a shrewd view on what makes a good female character though. Like any characters in general don't need to be "the strongest", the most hypest etc. Etc. For them to be "good character".

From many of the female characters you have been spouting about. A lot of them are given emotionally driven backgrounds.
I can also see, you immediately shove them as bad when you obviously just don't like the type of trauma, or trope they are purposely used for. You don't like when they cry or when they have time they are in distress or need help. You probably will hate any male characters when they recieve the same story arcs. You also deem a series to just have all bad female characters when your comments just screams you just want "Mikasa" or "Historia" to be this and that. I mean Hange has been consitently a good character, Gabi is a good character, heck Sasha transcended her original purpose to be "just a comic relief character and has one of Aot's most impactful death. (I also don't entirely view Mikasa nor Historia's character as just bad mostly because I vibe with the psychological story they present which you obviously don't like).

I also read some of your comments and I can see that you just specifically mainly just want a female character that can beat the crap out of a strong male character. Like I can see that if Tsunade actually was the strongest Kage ever then you will consider her great female character just by that.

Also ot being "shonen" is the biggest factor. Same way that you can feel that most male characters in a "shojou" story are either gonna look very bishounen etc. Etc. Heck even a lot of shojou manga make majority of its female character bad to make the female lead standout. A lot of times shojou protagonist are bullied female characters and exist to make the shojou mc's life terrible so that the bishounen male mc save the shojo protagonist.
Manga wise even if authors do make female mc in a battle shonen, even if the story has potential, the demand and its reach for audience is low that those series eventually gets cancelled. Red hood is recent example.
In Bleach if fans Just let Kubo kill off Byakuya, then Rukia defeating As nodt will mean so much more. But fan demand butcher that Rukia story arc so.. yes sometimes the author is just not good at female characters but sometimes the fans play some part in it too.


I suggest you just go look for a battle oriented shoujo manga or an otome battle story. And your wishes might just be fulfilled. Or just look for any good Gacha story, and most of the powerful characters in there anyways are female waifus and the story do make them the central focus.

Though to be fair female side characters from shonen manga is much more compelling than female side characters in shojo manga.

Anyways just read Dandadan, its full of good strong female characters. Female villains thus far are all compelling and strong. The Female deuteragonist is the stronger one, the male MC is powered by an op Granny(so still female powered)
Chainsawman has a lot of strong female characters and other series too. But then again it eventually depends on whether you like the stories integrated on those characters.


You know, while you have some really good points, i honestly dont think that was the reason why Red Hood was cancelled tbh. Because if you were reading it at the time you would know the TERRIBLE pacing problems it had plus the very messy structure, which made the series overall hard to sell to the audience imo. I think these factors have extremely much more weight than just having a strong female as MC

Also regarding Dandadan, are you sure Momo is the deuteragonist? because to me she gives me more MC vibe and focus than Okarun.

Dandandan has deuteragonist MCs since its sells you on the idea of Occultic spiritual beings meets Sci Fi Urban legend creatures. Momo represents the occult while Okarun is the other side.

What I mean by my Deuteragonist is more of the Both Okarun and Momo is the MC, they have equal MC value . Both Okarun and Momo are deuteragonist or share the title of the shows "MC".
Being deuteragonist occationally works efficiently if one of the mc "mains" a part of the job while the other half to the other. I mean Dandandan has two MC, two protagonist. (I don't know how to word it properly sorry)

Mostly Okarun is the one who is mostly involve in incidents that will move the story forward while Momo is the party leader that will solve the problem.

Take Bleach for example, it jas a beginning that seems to make Rukia a deuteragonist but only to be revealed as the main side character for the initial arc. Then becames less focused on after her arc.

You can take FF xiii-2 for example since it has a deuteragonist, both the mc storywise has a different purpose thus they may take a more relevant role than the other depending on the current story beat. Its one of the better deutaeragonist to compare to since most deuteragonist usually make one side the MC of light while the other is the dark side MC. Another example is Kirito-Eugeo for SAO alicization or Alice-Kirito in War of the underworld, its more of Momo having the same role as Kirito and Okarun taking Eugeo's /Alice's place.

The story won't even move forward if Okarun did lose his weiner or his balls in the first place. Basically story structure wise Okarun is leading or pushing the story forward passively whole Momo takes the active role on walking down the story beats.
Edit: I guess I should have worded it as dual protagonist but I don't know what to call it one of the mc separately.

Anyways in pertaining to the Red hood thing, I guess my concern was more directed to "battle shounen" having a female mc in general are usually cancelled. Like wasn't Horikoshi's first weekly series has a female lead but again it gets cancelled.
For Red Hood, tge paving issues became prevelant more when tge series was constatantly on the bottom of the ratings, thus it being susceptible for getting axed the the author did fast pace arcs that are not working and fast paving it so it can be ended if ever it was cancelled.
Like I saw youtube videos on youtibes for months that, yes despite Red hood blowing up abroad(at least against the other new jump releases) Red hood was low ratings domestically, which are the ones considered when jump axe a series.
Sonson7Apr 11, 2022 10:30 PM
May 20, 2022 7:06 AM
#279
MizunoWaveRider

Offline
Feb 2014
480
animu007 said:
its simple, because we are.

i actually find woman in shonen series okay.
some are better some are shit.

Interesting opinion. Any particular examples for ones you like and dislike that might clash with the common opinion?
MizunoWaveRiderMay 20, 2022 7:14 AM
May 20, 2022 7:55 PM
#280
tinker3bellz1

Offline
May 2021
1197
Schwarznight said:
What happened to solid female characters, who are complex, and who could wreck their male counterparts?

Only Gintama got solid females and not made to be protected

(just saw your profile and realised you've watched Gintama so I'm guessing you agree)

𝑇𝐼𝑃𝑆 𝐼𝑁 𝐺𝐼𝑁𝑇𝐴𝑀𝐴
- NOT your usual shounen anime
- Pure comedy? DEAD WRONG
- Treat Gintama as SoL/weekly sitcom especially earlier seasons
- Ep 1 & 2 are for manga readers
- BIG patience for its 'slow' start

May 20, 2022 8:00 PM
#281
hazecloud

Offline
Jan 2018
32411
not enough screen time and the screen time is based on popular arc / moment so tough luck for those with average scene that didn't make the cut for anime production.
May 20, 2022 8:12 PM
#282
Kruszer

Offline
Dec 2012
9428
Most battle shounen are garbage too, so this should not surprise anyone. Formulaic style over substance and full of cliches.

Then again simple stories don't really require complex characters to function and complexity is not required for enjoyment.
KruszerMay 20, 2022 8:26 PM
"The name's Gambit. Remember it."
-Gambit "X-Men '97"

May 20, 2022 8:21 PM
#283
Kayle_x_Morgana

Offline
May 2016
5502
Schwarznight said:
kizumi91 said:
That's why it's called Shounen. If you want some badass female characters, try watching Shoujo instead


That's flawed logic, but whatever... No reason for women to be that weak and pathetic, tbh. It's fiction. You can make them stronger and more complex if you want. Instead, they are just sexualised and used for fanservice...or in secondary roles.


anime isn't for you then. lmfao.

Maybe try the owl house.
May 21, 2022 7:48 AM
#284
AwokenStroken

Offline
Sep 2020
2818
Maybe because they're written by men who don't know what women are like.
May 21, 2022 7:50 AM
#285
Yukarix

Offline
Sep 2020
484
mangakas probably have barely any interaction with real life girls
May 21, 2022 12:24 PM
#286
katsucats

Offline
Oct 2012
16017
AwokenStroken said:
Maybe because they're written by men who don't know what women are like.
I think this is probably realistic. I'm guessing people aspiring to be manga artists aren't the most popular people growing up, so they then write manga for readers that aren't the most popular, so it feeds into this insulating cycle of people who don't have much experience with women.
My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com
THE CHAT CLUB.
May 21, 2022 6:13 PM
#287
Mykasan

Offline
Nov 2015
672
1 blame the writer. They don't know any better.

2. blame the audience. Shonen are made for young men.

3. blame the editor. They know what is selling right now.
May 21, 2022 6:28 PM
#288
Moonlight60

Offline
Sep 2020
1214
Do us a favour and read Gunnm, Nausicaä and more Shoujo/Josei manga 😄
May 22, 2022 10:42 AM
#289
Schwarznight
Offline
Aug 2020
755
tinker3bellz1 said:
Schwarznight said:
What happened to solid female characters, who are complex, and who could wreck their male counterparts?

Only Gintama got solid females and not made to be protected

(just saw your profile and realised you've watched Gintama so I'm guessing you agree)


Team Kagura. Represent. Big up. Lol
May 22, 2022 10:43 AM
#290
Schwarznight
Offline
Aug 2020
755
RomanceEnjoyer48 said:
Do us a favour and read Gunnm, Nausicaä and more Shoujo/Josei manga 😄


will do later. thanks for the suggestions. ta
May 22, 2022 11:01 AM
#291
Tyrant_Inferno

Offline
Dec 2021
178
Smordola said:
This thread is a slog to read through. But anyone mentioning Fairy Tail with that plot-armor Mary Sue Erza...just no. There's better female characters than that frog.


Lmao if you’re calling Erza a Mary Sue, than every other character in Fairy Tail is a Mary Sue, too. Her character development isn’t all that different from the rest. The only character in Fairy Tail that’s even remotely a Mary Sue is Lucy since she was just a rich girl that ran away from home to join the Fairy Tail guild. Even then, Lucy is still one of the weaker characters as she can barely fight without her spirits.
May 22, 2022 11:23 AM
#292
N_J_N

Offline
Feb 2021
372
The same reason as generic shonen protagonists. The mangakas are just following the shonen character archetypes and do not want to try something new. But there still are good female characters in shonen like those in Gintama and Chainsaw man.
May 22, 2022 11:46 AM
#293
Bidoof_PMD-EOS

Offline
Jan 2022
583
BlueEmbers said:
I mean the entire point of OP's complaint is asking why women, in a genre intended to be masculine geared, aren't more like men? That is a bit insulting isn't it? But yes, there is a mysogyny problem in Japan, and anime in general. I mean look at Mushoku Tensei, an appauling series of toxic masculinity, creepiness, and female degradation, and it knocks out a 8.3 rating. That is SO gross and telling about what the masses put thier money on.

Conersely, imagine going to a Josei/SoL genre and being like, "Why can't the men in these girly series be as girly as all the women? What are they incapable of being feminine and sensitive?"

And the answer is that making a female character as a character model and scripting her to be a man in execution is a great way to make her a garbage character. No one is asking for a man to pretend to be a authentic woman, or a woman to pretend to be a man. Audiences know what they want, and good mangaka an studio directors know that too.

Really, of the 2 Joseis I read/watched, one of them had a more feminine male lead, and the other one had a 2 male main characters, both of which represent different types of traits associated to men (not related to strength though) (Showa Genroku). So, I don't think that counter-point works.
It makes sense to not have every female fighter be the strongest, but if a female character 'decides' to fight, then it would make sense for some to be represented amongst the strongest. Not saying that you should rank a character by their strength in combat, but yes, it should be taken into consideration as it's the metric in these types of show. The developped character could be weak, but it would make sense to have a strong female (fighter).

I'm not going to vouch for One piece being particularly good at that, but you do have Linlin as one of the Yonko.
Drawcia Soul theme
May 22, 2022 6:21 PM
#294
Smordola

Offline
Jul 2011
365
Tyrant_Inferno said:
Smordola said:
This thread is a slog to read through. But anyone mentioning Fairy Tail with that plot-armor Mary Sue Erza...just no. There's better female characters than that frog.


Lmao if you’re calling Erza a Mary Sue, than every other character in Fairy Tail is a Mary Sue, too. Her character development isn’t all that different from the rest. The only character in Fairy Tail that’s even remotely a Mary Sue is Lucy since she was just a rich girl that ran away from home to join the Fairy Tail guild. Even then, Lucy is still one of the weaker characters as she can barely fight without her spirits.


Lucy is better developed than Erza will ever hope to be. Her struggles actually make her a more relatable character. She's also had to make more sacrifices such as giving up Aquarius. I don't even like her either but her victories do feel earned compared to Erza pulling out asspulls to win.
May 22, 2022 6:56 PM
#295
Tyrant_Inferno

Offline
Dec 2021
178
Smordola said:
Tyrant_Inferno said:


Lmao if you’re calling Erza a Mary Sue, than every other character in Fairy Tail is a Mary Sue, too. Her character development isn’t all that different from the rest. The only character in Fairy Tail that’s even remotely a Mary Sue is Lucy since she was just a rich girl that ran away from home to join the Fairy Tail guild. Even then, Lucy is still one of the weaker characters as she can barely fight without her spirits.


Lucy is better developed than Erza will ever hope to be. Her struggles actually make her a more relatable character. She's also had to make more sacrifices such as giving up Aquarius. I don't even like her either but her victories do feel earned compared to Erza pulling out asspulls to win.


I'm currently watching through the series for the first time and I'm on episode 96, so you just hit me with a pretty big spoiler lol. Also, Lucy can be annoying sometimes, especially at the beginning, but I've grown to like her as a character. I will say that you can just see Lucy getting stronger as each arc passes by. I assume that the new whip she got in the Edolas arc will make her an even better fighter. BTW, it's in my opinion that the Edolas arc is one of the best arcs of any battle shonen that I've watched and I can't wait to see if any future arcs surpass it.
Jun 15, 2022 10:18 AM
#296
removed-user
Offline
Jul 2018
564488
Schwarznight said:
How come mangakas are incapable of creating solid female characters. Take Kishimoto (mangaka of Naruto) for example. Literally every female in his show just exists to be a love interest or to be protected. Sakura is weak af, all things considered. Tsunade is a pathetic Hokage. The coolest and strongest characters are the guys. The most complex characters tend to be guys (take Itachi...Pain...etc, as an example). This is not a problem that is exclusive to Naruto either. What happened to solid female characters, who are complex, and who could wreck their male counterparts? Even the female characters from AoT are garbage overall when compared to the best male characters.

Claymore was okay, though.




Sakura is weak, I agree with that. But Kaguya, Konan?
Jun 15, 2022 10:21 AM
#297
removed-user
Offline
Jul 2018
564488
Mykasan said:
1 blame the writer. They don't know any better.

2. blame the audience. Shonen are made for young men.

3. blame the editor. They know what is selling right now.


What's it to you? Anyone can watch whatever they want.
Jun 16, 2022 1:39 PM
#298
Mykasan

Offline
Nov 2015
672
YurtAhmet said:
Mykasan said:
1 blame the writer. They don't know any better.

2. blame the audience. Shonen are made for young men.

3. blame the editor. They know what is selling right now.


What's it to you? Anyone can watch whatever they want.


Of course, they can, Shonen are a product made for a target audience which are teenagers. Doesn't mean i don't watch them. :)
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