Mickdrew said: I already knew before that Gabbo has not really read the VN. Now, I honestly start to doubt whether that woman has even seen FZ.My point is that Fate/Zero's study of ideals works largely because it resists the objectification of women. |
CapsuleCore said: Mickdrew said: I already knew before that Gabbo has not really read the VN. Now, I honestly start to doubt whether that woman has even seen FZ.Wiki really does help people quite a bit |
 |
| We all know that F/Z interepted women fairly and justicely, giving them good roles and making them fight with HYPE :D while all F/SN did was make Women stay in the kitchen |
| It's a shame that every criticism she made has to be connected with her stupid social agenda, she instantly loses all her "internet credibility", if that's a thing. It probably attracts a lot more views this way, though. |
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CapsuleCore said: Mickdrew said: I already knew before that Gabbo has not really read the VN. Now, I honestly start to doubt whether that woman has even seen FZ.We report, you decide: Kirei's complete inability to relate to women betrays the degree to which his upbringing in the Church, a patriarchal institution, destroyed him as a person. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| But seriously, didn't she notice that every servant in F/Z was a man except for Saybah? Even most of the Masters were men xD And 3 Servants were running after Best Mom. And Goldie Humilated best Mom last episode xD So why does she complain about 2 men fighting so much xD |
Mickdrew said: Kirei's complete inability to relate to women betrays the degree to which his upbringing in the Church, a patriarchal institution, destroyed him as a person. She's referring to a theory which explains that Kirei's upbringing in the church only strengthened his sociopathic side, but I have no idea how it ties to his supposed inability to relate to women: his wife is barely mentioned, and even his scenes with Rin or Iri hardly point in this direction. Shrimperor said: But seriously, didn't she notice that every servant in F/Z was a man except for Saybah? Even most of the Masters were men xD And 3 Servants were running after Best Mom. And Goldie Humilated best Mom last episode xD So why does she complain about 2 men fighting so much xD You could at least read the review, instead of contributing to make this thread even more toxic than ANN's comment section. |
Lollo36May 25, 2015 2:53 AM
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Mickdrew said: Well, Kirei's upbringing in the church does destroy him as a person. Because it taught him morals. But concluding that it's related to his supposed inability to relate to women...? I mean, what the hell is going on in her head to think that.CapsuleCore said: I already knew before that Gabbo has not really read the VN. Now, I honestly start to doubt whether that woman has even seen FZ. We report, you decide: Kirei's complete inability to relate to women betrays the degree to which his upbringing in the Church, a patriarchal institution, destroyed him as a person. |
Forgetfulness said: >Fate/Zero >resists the objectificaion of women >contains the only female character out of the two whose main job is for sex (Maiya) Funny, I'm pretty sure FSN had that too In any case, F/Z "Doesn't objectify women" Certain blond knight hardly spoken to by "protaganist" is expected to follow orders feelings be damned, like a machine.....This lady isn't even trying......(or you could say she is trying to hard). |
| I'll change this as soon as I think of something clever. |
Lollo36 said: You could at least read the review, instead of contributing to make this thread even more toxic than ANN's comment section. Sorry have to disagree there...nothing can top the toxic nature of those comment sections.And how is this thread being toxic?I am curious. |
| |
CapsuleCore said: Mickdrew said: Well, Kirei's upbringing in the church does destroy him as a person. Because it taught him morals. But concluding that it's related to his supposed inability to relate to women...? I mean, what the hell is going on in her head to think that.We report, you decide: When I think about it, Kirei probably become a new type of joker if he isn't taught morals. |
| >Fate/Zero does not objectivy women >Watching scene where a woman LITERALLY turns into an object, an object with the label "I do anything that you ask of me!" yea right... FlamepriesT said: Grey-Zone said: Someone should make a parody of ANN by making a similar analysis about how the males are supposedly the "playthings" of the female characters in F/sn. I bet with the right wording you could make it as "believable" as that ANN review. Something like: "See here, Saber is suppoesdly the 'servant' but she beats Shirou up, supposedly in the name of 'training', and then she pushes him to make food for her! And then there is the sadistic Rin who plays pranks on Shirou, here I show you a video from the VN and I skip to all the scenes where Rin one-sidely dominates Shirou! There is no question that the author, Kinoko Nasu, wants to convey to the reader that he'd want a matronarchy as the ideal political system!" lol 10/10, plz post this on their forums I do not have an ANN account, but anyone is free to steal that idea and roll with it. I am refraining from patenting it, if I get yuetsu in return! |
 |
Grey-Zone said: I do not have an ANN account, but anyone is free to steal that idea and roll with it. I am refraining from patenting it, if I get yuetsu in return! You know what I think I will |
laidellent said: Lollo36 said: You could at least read the review, instead of contributing to make this thread even more toxic than ANN's comment section. Sorry have to disagree there...nothing can top the toxic nature of those comment sections.And how is this thread being toxic?I am curious. This fanbase is incredibly talented at finding reasons to completely dismiss outsiders' opinions. The ANN reviewer basically served them the perfect excuse on a silver plate. I can't even fathom how she came to certain conclusions or why she has to relate everything to sexism, but I agree with her on some points: Really, the worst part of this “Rin gets kidnapped” bit is how it's annihilated her character. In the first half of this series, she was an assertive young woman who took charge of her own romantic desires. She was the one who pressured an embarrassed Shirou into finally becoming an item. She fought off Shinji on multiple occasions. Now she's patiently waiting as a bunch of dudes fight over her. All of them, friend or foe, alpha or beta, somehow reinforce her status as a sexual object. Kirei provides us with that boob shot. Shinji is less a character than a narrative tool to set upon female characters when they aren't in enough sexual peril. Lancer is there to make sure that Rin isn't “really” assaulted (while also reinforcing her desirability.) Shirou is validated by Rin choosing him, and Archer has provided an eternal fountain of un-personing for her recently. Rin becomes a damsel in distress, she doesn't react to other characters touching her, and she is suddenly so retarded that she doesn't even remember that she can use command spells. UBW degraded her character, and for what? Does this scene add something more to Shinji compared to when he tried to melt the entire population of his school? Does Lancer saving her add something meaningful to Archer and Shirou's confrontation? I also find the camera shots in those 2 episodes disgusting: if you excuse the Shinji part as "insight into his character" (...), how do you excuse their camera choice for Kirei's scene? They don't break the anime, they don't mean much, but those scenes were horrible. This is all without even getting into Saber, who spends the entire episode dutifully watching as Shirou and Archer work out their fee-fees. I know that she and Shirou are tight and she made him a promise, but her friend and current master is being almost-murdered in the next room. It's not like Saber is even doing anything in this fight – she just promised to be its witness for some reason? There's no written rule that says "you can't do anything important outside of your own route", and what Saber does here slightly degrades her character too. I couldn't care less about FSN degrading women as a whole, I just want FSN to be better than this. The way the reviewer framed her points was incredibly stupid, but it shouldn't be treated as an excuse to turn this thread into another sarcastic circlejerk, instead of a place for civil discussion. |
|
Insertanamehere said: Grey-Zone said: I do not have an ANN account, but anyone is free to steal that idea and roll with it. I am refraining from patenting it, if I get yuetsu in return! You know what I think I will #YOLO http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4545966#4545966 |
Insertanamehere said: Grey-Zone said: I do not have an ANN account, but anyone is free to steal that idea and roll with it. I am refraining from patenting it, if I get yuetsu in return! You know what I think I will  Edit: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2902782&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1245 GJ *thumbs up* |
| Time to YOROKOBE! |
|
| Should have touched it up a bit,it's too obvious. |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: Should have touched it up a bit,it's too obvious. Eh, I couldn't be bothered, like what? Besides, it's meant to be an obvious parody of her tone so that's not really that much of a problem. |
| Ah,i was under the impression you were doing it for YUETSU,thus baiting for a serious response. If it's just subtle mocking,gj |
| A magic circuit and a CS are two different things. That said don't do this here,oi |
celeminus said: Rin was bound by rope or whatever that stopped her magical capabilities and they messed up her magic circuits so using command spells goes out the window. Command spells are an independent mana source that doesn't rely on the caster's magic circuits, she could have used one of them easily. Also, the anime doesn't even touch on the "magical shackles" part. In Kirei's scene he was actually making a cross on Rin before he wanted to kill her (something priests usually do? and crosses are usually done on the chest) My argument was against the camera's position, which could have been somewhat excused in Shinji's case, to show his lust or whatever bullshit excuse you want, but it obviously doesn't work on Kirei's case. I wouldn't have complained if the camera was further away and Rin had reacted like a human would to the perspective of someone performing heart surgery on her (I was also under the impression that Kirei was just pinpointing her heart's location, no crosses involved). so those arguments are kind of irrelevant Blaming a franchise for mysoginicm where most women are stronger than most men in pretty much every installment is kind of ridiculous Phisical strength means nothing. Highschool of the Dead has strong women killing zombies, but it doesn't make it any less disgusting. |
Lollo36May 25, 2015 5:10 AM
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celeminus said: Lollo36 said: Rin becomes a damsel in distress, she doesn't react to other characters touching her, and she is suddenly so retarded that she doesn't even remember that she can use command spells. UBW degraded her character, and for what? Does this scene add something more to Shinji compared to when he tried to melt the entire population of his school? Does Lancer saving her add something meaningful to Archer and Shirou's confrontation? I also find the camera shots in those 2 episodes disgusting: if you excuse the Shinji part as "insight into his character" (...), how do you excuse their camera choice for Kirei's scene? They don't break the anime, they don't mean much, but those scenes were horrible. Rin was bound by rope or whatever that stopped her magical capabilities and they messed up her magic circuits so using command spells goes out the window. In Kirei's scene he was actually making a cross on Rin before he wanted to kill her (something priests usually do? and crosses are usually done on the chest) so those arguments are kind of irrelevant Blaming a franchise for mysoginicm where most women are stronger than most men in pretty much every installment is kind of ridiculous I don't get the problem too, Shirou is distress very often, even when he become strong. There's a distinction between: a) Strong woman who can get hurt and be in difficulties like a strong man. b) Strong woman who is never hurt, never in difficullties, never dirty, never need help because she is so invicible and independent. Personally, I will always prefer a. |
| Can't tell if this entire thread is just bait or people are seriously trying to find misogyny any chance they can. |
 |
TheUnknownMerc said: Can't tell if this entire thread is just bait or people are seriously trying to find misogyny any chance they can. Well no he just heard it from the "review". |
InsertanamehereMay 25, 2015 8:02 AM
Lollo36 said: laidellent said: Sorry have to disagree there...nothing can top the toxic nature of those comment sections.And how is this thread being toxic?I am curious. This fanbase is incredibly talented at finding reasons to completely dismiss outsiders' opinions. The ANN reviewer basically served them the perfect excuse on a silver plate. I can't even fathom how she came to certain conclusions or why she has to relate everything to sexism, but I agree with her on some points: Really, the worst part of this “Rin gets kidnapped” bit is how it's annihilated her character. In the first half of this series, she was an assertive young woman who took charge of her own romantic desires. She was the one who pressured an embarrassed Shirou into finally becoming an item. She fought off Shinji on multiple occasions. Now she's patiently waiting as a bunch of dudes fight over her. All of them, friend or foe, alpha or beta, somehow reinforce her status as a sexual object. Kirei provides us with that boob shot. Shinji is less a character than a narrative tool to set upon female characters when they aren't in enough sexual peril. Lancer is there to make sure that Rin isn't “really” assaulted (while also reinforcing her desirability.) Shirou is validated by Rin choosing him, and Archer has provided an eternal fountain of un-personing for her recently. Rin becomes a damsel in distress, she doesn't react to other characters touching her, and she is suddenly so retarded that she doesn't even remember that she can use command spells. UBW degraded her character, and for what? Does this scene add something more to Shinji compared to when he tried to melt the entire population of his school? Does Lancer saving her add something meaningful to Archer and Shirou's confrontation? So you want... less... Shinji...? HOW COULD YOU! |
Insertanamehere said: Insertanamehere said: You know what I think I will #YOLO http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4545966#4545966 I just checked and it was deleted ;__; |
 |
OneTrueEmiya said: Insertanamehere said: #YOLO http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4545966#4545966 I just checked and it was deleted ;__; It's up again on the next page. |
OneTrueEmiya said: I just checked and it was deleted ;__; No trying to edit made the post fail for some reason so I just deleted it myself and put it on the next page. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4546082#4546082 |
Insertanamehere said: OneTrueEmiya said: I just checked and it was deleted ;__; No trying to edit made the post fail for some reason so I just deleted it myself and put it on the next page. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4546082#4546082 Colour me surprised. I would've thought ANN would've taken it down immediately for being a sarcastic insult to the reviewer. On the other hand, no one's replying yet so no yuetsu :C |
|
| ANN's Executive Editor posted a very respectable post regarding the issue, explaining how the review got published, addressing the complaints, and promising to do better in the future. But, while i really respect his stance on the matter, i think the reviewer shouldn't really review any of Nasu's works going forward. It's obvious she already has some sort of baggage against him, which really devolves her reviews into passive-aggressive bashes. Her preference for Urobuchi also doesn't help, because accusing Nasu for doing something while defending Gen when he's done much worse just takes away from her, and the site's, credibility. And, to make it clear, I'm not asking to censor her. I'm just asking to get someone who can experience and critique the episode without any preexisting baggage clouding their vision. |
astroprogs said: ANN's Executive Editor posted a very respectable post regarding the issue, explaining how the review got published, addressing the complaints, and promising to do better in the future. But, while i really respect his stance on the matter, i think the reviewer shouldn't really review any of Nasu's works going forward. It's obvious she already has some sort of baggage against him, which really devolves her reviews into passive-aggressive bashes. Her preference for Urobuchi also doesn't help, because accusing Nasu for doing something while defending Gen when he's done much worse just takes away from her, and the site's, credibility. And, to make it clear, I'm not asking to censor her. I'm just asking to get someone who can experience and critique the episode without any preexisting baggage clouding their vision. Unfortunately, the problem with reviews are that they will always be biased, since they're subjective when it comes down to it. Of course, this is a very extreme case, but ANN could just say she's expressing her opinion and leave it at that. The Executive Editor can't replace her easily anyway, since she could (as a sensitive and extreme feminist) potentially turn on him and go all "why stifle the voice of oppressed women", which would be very bad for both him and ANN in general. She's been extremely aggressive towards Nasu in general, and even goes as far as to cite Zero, by far one of the most male-dominant shows in the Fate franchise, (which she no doubt thinks Urobuchi single-handedly created) as resisting objectification. The best people can do is laugh it up, make jokes out of the ANN link and hope that people aren't taking her seriously. Oh, and avoid anything UBW-related on ANN like the plague. |
|
| that bed scene may have the 'rape imagery'if you know what I mean (*_^) |
 All credit goes to Sacred. |
FireEmblemIke24 said: that bed scene may have the 'rape imagery'if you know what I mean (*_^) 20 minutes mana transfer pls just to annoy her :D |
Shrimperor said: FireEmblemIke24 said: that bed scene may have the 'rape imagery'if you know what I mean (*_^) 20 minutes mana transfer pls just to annoy her :D Shirou channeling his inner Tohno in that scene~ poor tohsaka, but at least her nasu is intact |
|
Lollo36 said: The way the reviewer framed her points was incredibly stupid, but it shouldn't be treated as an excuse to turn this thread into another sarcastic circlejerk, instead of a place for civil discussion. The reason it's a sarcastic circlejerk is that there are simply too many erroneous arguments for it to be taken seriously. I only read 2/3rds of it, but it seriously makes me doubt whether she even watched F/Z, and it's pitifully obvious that she hasn't read the VN at all, and yet she's still using arguments from those works as if she has been through them. To say nothing of how she is actually making crap up to further her own agenda. astroprogs said: ANN's Executive Editor posted a very respectable post regarding the issue, explaining how the review got published, addressing the complaints, and promising to do better in the future. Yea, I saw that, I agree with his editorial policy and think that is the correct approach, even though I also think the review is garbage. In my eyes at least, she no longer has any credibility. Talking about the VN like you've read it when you obviously haven't is just bad. That said, I certainly wouldn't want it to not be published; look at all the fun it's brought us here. |
| *Angry about blasphemy. *Reacts with blasphemy about Fate Zero like a bunch of haters. Typical. Some of you are almost as bad as ANN. |
| Jaywalker. |
| Did Gabby go full retard again? And don't call me out on that, it applies to someone who claims that F/SN is a story of one boy conquering his "Toxic Masculine" values of heroism, and claims that HF is the one true correct answer to this story. |
Kaixe-Rho said: Did Gabby go full retard again? And don't call me out on that, it applies to someone who claims that F/SN is a story of one boy conquering his "Toxic Masculine" values of heroism, and claims that HF is the one true correct answer to this story. Enjoy http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/fate-stay-night-unlimited-blade-works/episode-20/.88524 |
| |
clintonmadara said: Shinji raped rin huh He's done a bit more than that hah. |
laidellent said: Kaixe-Rho said: Did Gabby go full retard again? And don't call me out on that, it applies to someone who claims that F/SN is a story of one boy conquering his "Toxic Masculine" values of heroism, and claims that HF is the one true correct answer to this story. Enjoy http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/fate-stay-night-unlimited-blade-hatworks/episode-20/.88524 I'm almost scared to read it. I have to deal with...her ilk...on a daily basis, and seeing her illogical, poorly-informed hatemongering infecting what is supposed to be an objective review of an anime series is just embarrassing on so many levels. I wish I could find it funny - if only she and all of her kind weren't so contemptible. |
| I'm going to just drag some bullshit things out... that's all |
|
| I applaud you for the effort, sir. And looks like i missed this: For one thing, Archer doesn't seem like a person. He's supposed to be a weary old warrior consumed with regret to the point of desiring death, but he's never expressed any emotion beyond smug self-assurance. Let him feel, dammit. This is a fundamentally emotional story about letting go of childhood idealism. You're looking for an emotion from this guy?:   |
| I think somebody should go there and point out that her beloved Fate Zero was a collaboration between Urobutchi and Nasu. |
| |
astroprogs said: I applaud you for the effort, sir. And looks like i missed this: For one thing, Archer doesn't seem like a person. He's supposed to be a weary old warrior consumed with regret to the point of desiring death, but he's never expressed any emotion beyond smug self-assurance. Let him feel, dammit. This is a fundamentally emotional story about letting go of childhood idealism. You're looking for an emotion from this guy?: I tried...it didn't even take me a paragraph before i got aggravated by they way they wrote their review. Pretentious fuck. |
|
| Oh Ayako... why can't we get your route :(. |
SaintEmiya said: Oh Ayako... why can't we get your route :(. + Or Illya oh Illya ;_; |
Shrimperor said: SaintEmiya said: Oh Ayako... why can't we get your route :(. + Or Illya oh Illya ;_; Nice try, but she gets Prisma Ilya, where is Ayako's magical girl anime? |
| I'll change this as soon as I think of something clever. |
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