"Tourist" is a stupid insult

@_Nette_ Wym gay twitter drama lol? They talking about stupid gatekeeping

@Rocknblock here comes uneducated Western racist woke defender.

We're all fucking tourists. Ain't none of us born or live in Japan lmao.

We're all fucking tourists. Ain't none of us born or live in Japan lmao.

@erikkamirs This user here just won the discussion.

If anyone is actually actively watching Anime everyone is pretty much a fan. I wouldn't necessarily use the word "tourist" but if fans don't actually buy and own Anime on Officially released Media, I would tend to think of them as more a "tourist" per say. If a Fan isn't actually actively buying Anime to collect, I tend to think they are doing nothing more than just doing something akin to visiting like a casual consumer would be simply just watching something airing on TV. But to add to this I don't think being called a "tourist" as some insult either. If Users really think of it as an insult, at some point in time everyone was a "tourist" to this medium.

This sentence right here is why we need to gatekeep people. The last time I heard someone unironically say this sentence they got laughed out of the group chat.

What, are we all gonna start sounding like TikTokers now?

@ColourWheel I wouldn’t necessarily say that you have to buy blue rays or have a manga collection to be a fan. I do have a collection but only because I can afford it but I’m sure there are some who it’s enough to pay for Crunchyroll.

@traed

Of course threatening people is always wrong, but I disagree on the second paragraph. A unified community of anime fans doesn't even exist and as I said: pretending like anime mainly consists of certain tropes, fetishizing, and all the bad written female characters and romances etc... is really unfair to the medium and all the writers in there.
You also said in a post that most shouldn't take it too serious. Now imagine you are a writer and people just refuse to look deeper into your work, because you are writing for a certain medium.




It's also a disgrace to Japan as a culture and its art to dumb it down to some most cliched anime tropes and pretend it's inherent to Japanese art to write them.
If you criticize them, you are called out on "trying to impose western culture on them." lol Believe me, I've seen Japanese plays in theatre too because one of my best friends studies Japanology in master and invited me. I read a few classic Japanese novels. So that argument is utter nonsense. It's a joke to Japanese' culture and to anime and manga as a medium too. Truth is most people, who think you are not supposed to critize an art for what it is and the dumbest tropes of anime are just inherent to Japanese culture, don't care to look deeper into any art form coming from there, or anything else the media has to offer.

It also shuts down most criticism right from the start. "You don't like the sexualization of the kids in there? Or the awful writing of the female characters etc... Well, it was supposed to be like that. Now what?"

@_Nette_ Wym gay twitter drama lol? They talking about stupid gatekeeping

@traed

These typical otaku subcultures are in Japan in comparison really small as well, so what.
The majority of people in Japan too look down on subcultures that are sexualizing loli characters etc... it's not like all of Japan consists of holy Akihabara and otaku subcultures.
People here too pretend it's just "The Twitter SJWs", who hate anime that are hitting all these tropes, while in reality it's just the majority of people, who feel disgusted by the portrayal of certain tropes in these anime.

I didn't say homosexual people in Japan can't talk for themselves? How do you come up with this?

You literally stated before that a piece of fiction is supposed to be fetishizing of say children, people are not supposed to critize it. Why should I care if it's intended, if I want to point out why this thing is shit.
Same happened with the portrayal of slavery in Shield Hero. People came up with "no worries, it's supposed to be like that." Ah yes, great lol.

And as I said, it's a shame to the medium and that part of Japanese culture in general, if you hold a whole medium and tons of creators in there to the lowest standards possible.

@traed

These typical otaku subcultures are in Japan in comparison really small as well, so what.
The majority of people in Japan too look down on subcultures that are sexualizing loli characters etc... it's not like all of Japan consists of holy Akihabara and otaku subcultures.
People here too pretend it's just "The Twitter SJWs", who hate anime that are hitting all these tropes, while in reality it's just the majority of people, who feel disgusted by the portrayal of certain tropes in these anime.

I didn't say homosexual people in Japan can't talk for themselves? How do you come up with this?

You literally stated before that a piece of fiction is supposed to be fetishizing of say children, people are not supposed to critize it. Why should I care if it's intended, if I want to point out why this thing is shit.
Same happened with the portrayal of slavery in Shield Hero. People came up with "no worries, it's supposed to be like that." Ah yes, great lol.

And as I said, it's a shame to the medium and that part of Japanese culture in general, if you hold a whole medium and tons of creators in there to the lowest standards possible.

When you can't stand other people's opinions so you try and gatekeep them using buzzwords.



@OP and co - You just gotta ignore them and keep being You! As Taylor Swift says, "The haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake. I shake it off, I shake it off." Keep watching what You want, and if You see something You don't like or find off-putting then feel free to share it! Most of the community is open-minded enough to be willing to hear out Your opinions without getting all up in a tizzy. Pay attention to them instead of the haters.

@GoatPieceLuffy

Funnily I too read erotica and all, but I'm not too fond of looking at the ass of a 14 yo, or how sexuality and romances are portrayed in certain anime.
Nice simplification "everyone who doesn't like it is a prude".

For use towards normal fans who have qualms about certain aspects of otaku culture yeah it’s stupid. For the people who want to mold those aspects to fit their ideal it fits perfectly. I vouch for complete artistic freedom, although I understand the perspective of the normies. Yes there’s a lot of weird shit people are into and nobody can or should stop you from saying your piece about it, but there’s no place for anyone trying to put restrictions on art.

@LittleOwlbear
Typical minority groups and subcultures of said groups are small, "so what"? Don't you see the problem with that kind of argument when trying to justify imposing on others? Since merely "critiquing" never stops at there these days nor is someone going on some bigoted rant even a critique to begin with which is what consists of the bulk of these supposed critiques.

And you're basing this claim Japan as a whole looks down on this based on what data? You are also making loaded statements based on your assumptions to begin with rather than understanding all the nuances. Also anime and manga are among some of the top hobbies in Japan (different polls use different options so it's hard to determine exact numbers) and you can easily see what has good viewer ratings in Japan includes stuff with the very things you claim most of Japan looks down on (which also is a bad argument you have because appeal to popularity). On top of that the majority of Japanese are proud of anime and manga culture. The Japanese are obviously more tolerant to such things than some Western cultures who are looking at it from a different way.
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20171026/p2a/00m/0na/004000c


Did I say you said it? No. But the behavior of various people suggests such things is what I meant.

I said one shouldn't try to critique something as if you expect it to be something other than what it is meant to be.

I haven't seen Shield Hero but in many shows with slavery it makes sense they don't try to end it because it exists for a reason and ending those reasons is often beyond the ability of the characters. I mean even in the real world in places slavery is illegal it still exists because the underlying causes weren't ended. They often just have slavery merely for very low level world building but dont even bother making it a big plot point because it's a big thing that would take up the whole plot every time if it did unless it was only isolated cases of slavery. I would like to see some shows that actually involves some sort of revolution that would also end slavery as consequence but that doesnt mean slavery just being depicted and not ended every time in a story is somehow a moral problem or even inherently a writing problem, though yeah it can be kind of lazy writing sometimes.

Does that mean we can no longer be allowed to critique? I'd rather not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I've been told I'm not a real otaku because I don't watch the right anime. So what? Nobody has been able to explain to me why I should even want to be an otaku. If those real otaku are so desperate for an echo chamber, they should go to to MyOtakuList where they won't find me.

@Lucifrost
Just read what I've already wrote. A proper critique is context appropriate and doesn't involve just being really unpleasant is basically what I've been saying. No one likes being preached to especially not about entertainment media.

@traed
That's true, but one of your previous comments suggested that only otaku have the right to criticize anime. It seemed a strange thing for you to say, since many people who are not otaku also watch anime. I wouldn't say that only bookworms can criticize books or that only cinephiles can criticize movies.

What's wrong with criticism? If you don't like it, just ignore it. I would rather more people watch anime than have to discuss anime with elitist people.

@traed



Nobody wanted him to play the big hero and end slavery on his own in society. The anime just portrays him as "'a good slave owner' because he's nice to her" (although that girl did have the emotional maturity of a child when she 'agreed' on staying his slave and gets electroshocked everytime she disobeys). Every of the other heroes who calls him out is portrayed as comically stupid or evil anyway.
He also bought her because he's portrayed as the victim of one false rape accusation and therefore he doesn't trust any woman except his dog... I mean slave girl he later romances.
But I guess it was clearly intended that way, so no reason to criticize a pile of misogyny and slave apology.

@traed



Nobody wanted him to play the big hero and end slavery on his own in society. The anime just portrays him as "'a good slave owner' because he's nice to her" (although that girl did have the emotional maturity of a child when she 'agreed' on staying his slave and gets electroshocked everytime she disobeys). Every of the other heroes who calls him out is portrayed as comically stupid or evil anyway.
He also bought her because he's portrayed as the victim of one false rape accusation and therefore he doesn't trust any woman except his dog... I mean slave girl he later romances.
But I guess it was clearly intended that way, so no reason to criticize a pile of misogyny and slave apology.

People who often call anime newcomers "tourists" tend to also be the same people who call others "peasants" and "plebeians" unironically. I think it's just their way of flexing to people and saying "I am superior" lol

@kusairo No, they get called tourist because they barge into something and demand it be changed to suit their taste instead of the people that said anime was made for. It's got nothing to do with being elitist.

When you can't stand other people's opinions so you try and gatekeep them using buzzwords.



@OP and co - You just gotta ignore them and keep being You! As Taylor Swift says, "The haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake. I shake it off, I shake it off." Keep watching what You want, and if You see something You don't like or find off-putting then feel free to share it! Most of the community is open-minded enough to be willing to hear out Your opinions without getting all up in a tizzy. Pay attention to them instead of the haters.

@KittenCuddler
You guys calling it gatekeeping implies they're somehow interfering with your life or preventing you from doing something. As if somebody who thinks you have bad taste is somehow forcing you to change your media consumption habits.
If that's the case, you invest way too much concern in what "gatekeepers" think of you.
If that's NOT the case, then they're not "gatekeeping" anything, so it's illogical to call them gatekeepers.

"Gatekeeper" as a pejorative term makes absolutely no sense, it's a complete contradiction. Really it's just a rallying call of insecure people who are scared about what people on the internet think about their taste in media.

Cultures exist. Superficial and appropriative immersion in cultures is a thing that can happen. If some white 14 year old got into rap music last week, you know you wouldn't believe him if he started calling himself an "OG" and a genre scholar with decades of wisdom about hip hop. If you tell me otherwise you're talking out your ass. So there you go, despite being "anti-gatekeeping," deep down you're gatekeeping that 14 year old white boy.

Yes, cultural tourism DOES exist.

Only in MAL you'll find people debating whether or not a "good slave owner" is an acceptable concept lol