epidemia78 said: Concise summary of the dysfunctional and highly polarized political system of the formerly United States of America. As long as compromise is a curse word and equated with losing, it will continue to go downhill.If right wing fundies were in charge they'd delete all the anime tiddies. If left wing fundies were in charge they'd do the same only for different reasons. Don't sit there and act like the side you favor are perfect saints who can do no wrong. I had one more thought on anime and the US, and that's "import". Practically all countries except the US are very used to the fact that more than half of their movie and series menu comes from foreign countries. If we tried to change and influence each source, we'd be quite busy so we don't. The US has a strong tendency to remake even good European and Asian films, because Americans hate dub (because they are conditioned to by Hollywood for decades). Look how they massacred my boi "Funny Games", to give an example. Anime can't be easily remade by Hollywood. "Edge" and routine sexualization of the cast are big factors in that. So the folks not used to foreign movies in foreign languages on top get stories and moral systems they are not familiar with. Then apply their local morals and world famous prudery, and voila, a perfect shit storm from both wings of the American one party system. Grabs popcorn, and watches that melodramatic comedy unfolding. |
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epidemia78 said: Theo1899 said: I still can't decide which is the worse fate for anime: taken over by funi or taken over by tencent Tencent would censor Tanya the Evil for making anti-communist statements. Funi would force LGBTQ representation. For real, they would force LGBTQ stuff so it would look like they support it. I hate when they force that stuff into things |
petran79 said: Conversely, Funimation is trusted by the rest of the committee to use their international expertise to better market the show to foreign viewers and provide more detailed input to the other Japanese companies regarding what fans abroad would like to see. It’s a win-win. Anime is no longer focused solely on the Japanese market. Japanese companies are looking to foreign fans’ interest in titles more than ever before to increase the financial return on their investment as well as allow them to reinvest that money into new productions of ever higher animation quality.[/i] This is the part that sends shivers down my spine. If people are asking for evidence, that is the evidence right there. They are telling them to make stuff that targets the foreign audience more. The way anime is becoming more mainstream these days means that it won't be long before anime is partially being made for mainstream Americans too. This is fucking bullshit. |
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| Wew lad, this whole thing has a lot of fucking stupidity surrounding, which I guess shouldn't be surprising given the irrational hate boner people seem to have developed over the past for use for Funimation and the like. Let me first say that I'm not exactly a fan of Funimation. From what I've heard and have read online, their overall workplace culture seems to be fairly toxic, especially towards translators, and their upper management largely seem to be asleep at the wheel. I honestly don't give a fuck about what some VA said on Twitter or the whole #KickVic drama, to me it all seems very asinine and petty and I doubt it would really affect any business decisions Funimation would make on a production committee anyway. With that out of the way, let's address the main people seem to be paranoid about: That this will lead to anime being "westernized" and by "westernized" what people really mean is "sanitized" by the evil SJW cabal that runs Funimation. The people who believe this, quite frankly, are flat fucking idiots. Not only has Funimation been licensing and distributing anime like Goblins Slayer and Citrus, they were also on the production committee for the show Plunderer, none of which I would really call watered down, or sanitized to pander to normies, regardless of whatever fucking trigger warning Funimation put at the start of Goblin Slayer episodes. People also tend to forget that just because their are shows with elements that can be considered "feminist" or pro-LGBT, that this isn't necessarily coming from a western influence. You've been getting feminist laden shit for decades, you just don't think of it as being so (the last thing a fish notices is the water it swims in). As far as LGBT shit goes,you've got stuff like Flip Flappers, Wandering Son, Stars Align, hell even fucking Zombieland Saga. So don't act like the stuff that is "polluting" your anime is being forced upon the Japanese by western forces - and complaining about it, quite frankly, you're also a western person complaining about Japanese media and wanting it to conform to your own values and ideas. I guess genuine artistic creativity flies out the window the second you don't like what it has to say. As far as shit being geared more towards a western audience, anime creators have been keying in on the potential of the western market for a while now. Good shit too has been made with western audiences in mind, just take Little Witch Academia for example. The idea that anime should only be geared to a Japanese audience to maintain some sort of sense of "purity" that would be tainted by a western audiences demands just strikes me as being weirdly fetishistic of Japanese people as a whole. To me, this whole knee-jerk reaction to Funimation being more involved in anime production and how it will "ruin anime" just comes across as childish and ill-informed. Now, I don't want to paint everyone who has criticisms of Funimation with a broad brush or even people who are critical of this move by Funimation (the committee system isn't something I would exactly call conducive to creative freedom and integrity myself), but those who do believe what I just laid out, and you know who you are, are probably feverishly typing their responses as they read this and I for one can't wait to see their colorful replies in the hours after this post goes up. ADDENDUM: As it turns out, the people working on everyone's favorite SJW trigger, Rising of the Shield Hero, was made with western audiences in mind according to the creator. Maybe that's the reason Shield Hero was so bad... https://www.anime-talk.com/rising-of-the-shield-hero-controversy/ He did mention that the anime Adaptation of The Rising of the Shield Hero was made with the Western audience in mind. He also stated that viewer numbers on legal streaming sites such as Crunchyroll have a bigger effect on Anime creation every year. By continuing to watch shows like Shield Hero in a legal way, we can look forward to more similar content. They may be a bit more careful with the timing though. https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/aozaw0/ama_with_shield_hero_producer_junichiro_tamura/ Q: What's one form or style of anime you think would fair better in Western markets than in Japan's domestic market? A: I think stories that everyone can relate to fair better in Western markets (unlike things only Japanese people can relate to, such as series based on Japanese high schools). Q: How do you think the anime industry will change in 10 years? A: I see more foreigners involved in production, so anime will be made by more global creators for a more global audience with new styles of anime. I do have to be amused at the irony of idiotic westerners getting upset that anime is being made for a broader audience, while the people actually making the anime they enjoy, seem to openly welcome the prospect of pleasing a wider audience. But clearly the people getting upset at Funimations are the ones with the intentions of the people making anime in mind. |
MienusApr 3, 2020 1:06 AM
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Ryuk9428 said: petran79 said: Conversely, Funimation is trusted by the rest of the committee to use their international expertise to better market the show to foreign viewers and provide more detailed input to the other Japanese companies regarding what fans abroad would like to see. It’s a win-win. Anime is no longer focused solely on the Japanese market. Japanese companies are looking to foreign fans’ interest in titles more than ever before to increase the financial return on their investment as well as allow them to reinvest that money into new productions of ever higher animation quality.[/i] This is the part that sends shivers down my spine. If people are asking for evidence, that is the evidence right there. They are telling them to make stuff that targets the foreign audience more. The way anime is becoming more mainstream these days means that it won't be long before anime is partially being made for mainstream Americans too. This is fucking bullshit. #AnimeGate members will rise in numbers lol |
Ryuk9428 said: There still is a fundamental difference in approach. In North-West Europe, prostitution is legal first and regulated second - depending on the country more or less strict. In the US it is illegal first, and booming in renamed forms and shapes second - escort, pole dancer, you name it. And yea, the "woke" mentality is sort of the left-wing form of prudery. Somebody in this thread wrote both the US left and right want to ban anime tiddies, just for different reasons - and I agree. So this may have to do more with a people's mentality than with individual political preference.inim said: Please don't throw Europeans into on pot with prude Trumpistan and the Anglosphere. You probably think that because you live in Germany. (...) its stupid prostitution is banned here in the US, but by all practical measures, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, and Finland who are all the most leftist countries in Europe are the ones with the strictest prostitution laws. The United States is absurdly woke these days. I went to Italy and Spain and was stunned at how politically incorrect people are there compared to the US. |
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petran79 said: It is an interesting experiment. Only thing I am skeptical is that it will give Funimation a big advantage over IP rights in the international market, which is not good in the long run unless others follow. Yeah, that's definitely the biggest concern I have with regards to this whole thing. Exclusive distribution rights aren't anything new in this era of Netflix """""Originals""""" but the way I see it, this is only going to make it more difficult for anime consumers here in the west to legally access the shows they want to see without having to subscribe to a plethora of different streaming services. ...Well I guess anime really is going down the route of TV and movies with how fucked streaming services are getting to be with those mediums lol |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| Anti-industry brigade: "Funimation is just a middleman, they don't actually pay studios!" Funimation: *invests in committees to fund productions directly* Anti-industry brigade: "HOW DARE FUNIMATION GET MORE INVOLVED?!?!?" Funny how this sad culture war about their so-called "agenda" can barely muster up a handful of examples. A few scenes in Dragon Maid and My First Girlfriend is a Gal don't constitute an all-encompassing trend, sorry. (Not counting Prison School as that was changed on the disc version. Interspecies Reviewers was controversial enough that even some Japanese TV stations dropped it.) Also, North American companies have been on production committees as far back as the early 2000s, on shows like Hellsing TV, I My Me Strawberry Eggs, Paranoia Agent, Koi Kaze, Kino's Journey, and Kaleido Star, among others. Where was the nefarious agenda in those titles? HeruruMeruru said: If they really were trying to "push an agenda" then it would be censoring LGBT content if anything. Which they did in their dub of Dragon Maid. Indeed, and some from the feminist sphere have taken issue with the "I'm not into women, or dragons" line. Yet they're not trying to burn the Funi or the industry as a whole to the ground over it, unlike those who complain about the "patriarchal society" line. |
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Everything that connects to MAL |
HeruruMeruru said: Ryuk9428 said: This is the part that sends shivers down my spine. If people are asking for evidence, that is the evidence right there. They are telling them to make stuff that targets the foreign audience more. The way anime is becoming more mainstream these days means that it won't be long before anime is partially being made for mainstream Americans too. This is fucking bullshit. Lupin the Third part 4 was made for Italy. Oban Star Racers was made for France. Big O season 2, Cowboy Bebop Knockin' on Heaven's door, Trigun Badlands Rumble, Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex (as well as the original film), IGPX, Dead Leaves, Kino's Journey, Little Witch Academia, and as has been mentioned, even edgy controversial fare like Devilman Crybaby and Shield Hero were all made specifically with western audiences in mind or outright had American companies in the production committee. Golly gee, it's almost as if all the anime made for a western audience or directly funded by American companies I listed are either beloved classics or edgy and offensive (or both in Devilman's case). The horror! The horror! Good anime being made! It really sends shivers down my spine! I'm literally shaking rn! I'm not worried about the edgy stuff disappearing. We make shit tons of edgy stuff. South Park, Game of Thrones, and rap music is certainly not a symptom of people disliking edgy content. I actually think American audiences like edgy stuff a bit too much and I'm worried that the moe atmosphere that a lot of animes have right now will slowly disappear as anime is created to appeal to broad audiences instead of niche groups. When I say moe I don't just mean animes like K-On and Azumanga Daioh, although I am talking about them as well. I consider it to be an "atmospheric element" that most slice of life/comedy animes have but a lot of other animes also have. Particularly, a lot of the American audiences will find the juxtaposition of moe atmospheres with ecchi content to be weird, off-putting, or maybe even creepy. The combination of these elements that you see, particularly in Kiss X Sis, Sakura Trick, or Okusama, but really in most ecchi animes is completely alien to American audiences. Its not that Americans don't like sexual content, its that they are not used to it being paired with a sugary, saccharine atmosphere. Even a lot of our fellow weirdos here on MAL find it off-putting but imagine how mainstream America would react? I don't mind seeing some stuff like Devilman too. But I would be extremely sad to see the moe side of anime disappear as its one of the most unique elements of anime subculture. |
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| thats why i pirate and use crunchyroll |
| Agenda of no hentai? I'm pretty sure most channels have that agenda. Interspecies review was just too lewd for Funimation, stop complaining about it. |
Ryuk9428 said: I'm worried that the moe atmosphere that a lot of animes have right now will slowly disappear as anime is created to appeal to broad audiences instead of niche groups. When I say moe I don't just mean animes like K-On and Azumanga Daioh, although I am talking about them as well. I consider it to be an "atmospheric element" that most slice of life/comedy animes have but a lot of other animes also have. Particularly, a lot of the American audiences will find the juxtaposition of moe atmospheres with ecchi content to be weird, off-putting, or maybe even creepy. The combination of these elements that you see, particularly in Kiss X Sis, Sakura Trick, or Okusama, but really in most ecchi animes is completely alien to American audiences. Its not that Americans don't like sexual content, its that they are not used to it being paired with a sugary, saccharine atmosphere. Even a lot of our fellow weirdos here on MAL find it off-putting but imagine how mainstream America would react? That's fair, but I think it's important to understand that a lot of this content already geared towards a niche audience within Japan itself and I would argue that there is without a doubt an audience for these types of shows in the West as well. These sorts of very otaku centric anime don't exactly fall in line with a lot of mainstream Japanese media trends and there is a fair amount of cultural friction between this otaku subculture/counterculture and the more mainstream, conservative zeitgeist. Anime like Kiss x Sis certainly aren't being made for your average, everyday Japanese person, but rather your more eccentric, dedicated, weirdos who really jive with that sort of material, and I think there are plenty of people here in the West (like you and me) who want that sort of content brought to them as well, even if they may not even know it yet. And where there's a strong enough market demand, you're going to have licencors, maybe Funimation, maybe someone else, who are going to see that unmet demand and really key in on it. Of course, there is the problem with the fact that anime is still a foreign medium and people who are unfamiliar with it will assume that its most eccentric parts are what constitute the whole. Of course, as anime does become more mainstream in the West like it has been for the past 20 years now, and especially in the last 10 years, you're going to have more and more people that these sorts of shows are for a niche audience who have specific wants and I would like to think that most people would be generally accepting of that idea. You already have shows like MHA that are really bleeding into the mainstream here in the West and it's not because sanitize or wash down the show, or introduce feminist ideas or whatever, but rather because the show itself inherently has broad appeal that transcends national borders and culture, which I think is the more likely route anime will take as it becomes a medium with a more global audience in mind, but of course you're still going to have your more arthouse and more otaku centric works, arguably more as more revenue is pumped into the industry through these international markets. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| Isn't Funimation those people that hired voice actors and everything for Interspecies Reviewers then drop it after one episode because they didn't actually know what the show was? Because they don't do their research like they should? Why would anyone take them seriously. |
 Life is a despicable endurance race |
Mienus said: Ryuk9428 said: I'm worried that the moe atmosphere that a lot of animes have right now will slowly disappear as anime is created to appeal to broad audiences instead of niche groups. When I say moe I don't just mean animes like K-On and Azumanga Daioh, although I am talking about them as well. I consider it to be an "atmospheric element" that most slice of life/comedy animes have but a lot of other animes also have. Particularly, a lot of the American audiences will find the juxtaposition of moe atmospheres with ecchi content to be weird, off-putting, or maybe even creepy. The combination of these elements that you see, particularly in Kiss X Sis, Sakura Trick, or Okusama, but really in most ecchi animes is completely alien to American audiences. Its not that Americans don't like sexual content, its that they are not used to it being paired with a sugary, saccharine atmosphere. Even a lot of our fellow weirdos here on MAL find it off-putting but imagine how mainstream America would react? That's fair, but I think it's important to understand that a lot of this content already geared towards a niche audience within Japan itself and I would argue that there is without a doubt an audience for these types of shows in the West as well. These sorts of very otaku centric anime don't exactly fall in line with a lot of mainstream Japanese media trends and there is a fair amount of cultural friction between this otaku subculture/counterculture and the more mainstream, conservative zeitgeist. Anime like Kiss x Sis certainly aren't being made for your average, everyday Japanese person, but rather your more eccentric, dedicated, weirdos who really jive with that sort of material, and I think there are plenty of people here in the West (like you and me) who want that sort of content brought to them as well, even if they may not even know it yet. And where there's a strong enough market demand, you're going to have licencors, maybe Funimation, maybe someone else, who are going to see that unmet demand and really key in on it. Of course, there is the problem with the fact that anime is still a foreign medium and people who are unfamiliar with it will assume that its most eccentric parts are what constitute the whole. Of course, as anime does become more mainstream in the West like it has been for the past 20 years now, and especially in the last 10 years, you're going to have more and more people that these sorts of shows are for a niche audience who have specific wants and I would like to think that most people would be generally accepting of that idea. You already have shows like MHA that are really bleeding into the mainstream here in the West and it's not because sanitize or wash down the show, or introduce feminist ideas or whatever, but rather because the show itself inherently has broad appeal that transcends national borders and culture, which I think is the more likely route anime will take as it becomes a medium with a more global audience in mind, but of course you're still going to have your more arthouse and more otaku centric works, arguably more as more revenue is pumped into the industry through these international markets. That is true. Kiss X Sis is a very extreme example but it was the easiest one to make a point. But where my point is is that, while Kiss X Sis is definitely not made for your average every day Japanese person (who's probably about 50 years old), your average every day Japanese person would probably find it a lot less off-putting than your average, every day American would. I spend so much time immersed in anime culture that I sometimes forget how off-putting a lot of the stuff we watch really is to a large number of people. I don't think I'm really alone in thinking this. But for example, even my mom and dad who are a bit obsessed with cute things themselves still told me that they think the cuteness of anime girls is a little excessive. Most casual anime fans I've met, I would say tolerate it or have gotten used to it over time, but don't necessarily like it. Even here on MAL opinion seems to be kind of split with some people who really love moe elements and others who consider it irritating. I do agree that there's a niche audience in the US that would be thrilled about moe culture. But if anime starts going international, I think the whole dynamic of anime would fundamentally change. Anime right now is in a very special zone of popularity where its popular enough to have a large, easily accessible subculture based around it both inside Japan and abroad. But its not so popular that it is essentially for everybody. Take comic book movies for example. Marvel/DC movies are definitely not made for geeks or nerds anymore because they are obscenely profitable. Comic book movies are made to be as broadly appealing as possible. Now if you actually read comic books, you do start moving more into the geeky/nerdy realm. But the movies are as mainstream as it gets now. I think it would be a shame if anime culture was changed the same way that the subculture surrounding comic books was changed. The strongly Japanese aspect of anime would become lost over time. |
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| Scrolling through this thread and reading about.. 'agendas', 'sjws', 'feminazis', '3rd wave feminist ideology', 'censorship', 'culture war'. Like..  I shouldn't be, but it still surprises me how nutty homophobes can get.. |
Hey_Taka-tin_Hey said: As much as I'm on your side, I'd just like to clarify one thing: involving themselves in the Production Committees doesn't help the industry. It has been proven time and time again that the industry is being held back by this archaic system. In fact, it is because of said system that China has been able to slowly, but steadily, take over. So much so that it won't take very long for them to be the new epicenter of the anime world. Also, it is this very system that perpetuates slave labor. Because yes, the vast majority of Japanese animators, at the moment, are very much slaves, with no semblance of mental health left. Hate to mention China again, but they're paying them around $4500 a month, minimum, while offering them the actual permanent staff positions that they don't get in Japan. This is without mentioning the many anime studios that are stuck in the red, pretty much perpetually. With absolutely no means of escape. . this article sums it quite well http://www.yieldopedia.com/paneladmin/reports/87c5ec2fd71028bf4d8fcb9c40a988dc.pdf  According to our investigation, there are three major problems in current Chinese animation industry. (a) Lack of originalities.(b) Too enthusiastic about the state-of-art techniques. (c) Unclear division of labor and immature industry chain.(d) Prefer making animation movies. Too enthusiastic about the state-of-art techniques Manufacture of animation had been changed dramatically. With the advanced techniques, animators could present unprecedented animation to the audience. Many animation features succeed due to taking advantage of the state-of-art computer graphics techniques. Similarly, Chinese animators are enthusiastic about the techniques, and most of them were making blind attempts. They thought that state-of-art techniques are the best attractions to the audience instead of the story of the animation. Nonetheless, ignoring the importance of the story would be paid off eventually. Comparing to emphasis on the story of animation, emphasizing on techniques is highly risky.  The third major reason is unclear division of labor and immature industry chain. Firstly, there is no mature production chain within Chinese animation industry. One of the facts is all companies try to individually accomplish all the producing procedures such as scheme making, producing, sale and so forth even it is a very small company.Besides, there is no clear division of labor within the companies’ producing system, as a consequence, one worker might do various kind of works involve all producing procedures, obviously,it will not yield good animation productions. Secondly, no industry chain was established. In Recent years, there were some national bases established for improving the cooperation and competition among animation companies; however the outcome is not good. There are no industry standards within the industry, for example different companies use different manufacture software, different manufacture standards. Companies did not communicate with each other, and doing their own business individually. Interestingly, this situation is similar to the Japanese animation industry at 1980s, which was at initial stage[2]. Another major problem is most companies prefer making animation films, rather than making animation TV series at the beginning. As a matter of fact, due to the special animation censorship in China, Chinese animation companies has to produce a whole-year package, which includes 52 episodes, and then send for content examination. In other words, companies had to spend a lot of money on a whole-year package,only it passes the examination that the companies can then develop associative products and make profits. Clearly, it is highly risky for animation investor. Thus, as a compromise, most companies prefer to invest animation film, which has short manufacture cycle and less risky. Currently, the Chines eanimation industry took advantage of the experience of United States, which focuses on techniques and animation film. The truth is this kind of business style would crash due to it suffer from the following reasons: Firstly, the maturity of Chinese animation market is still naïve and un-professional. Secondly, the animation film market of U.S. is supported by the huge film market. Both on scale and influence, the market of U.S. is too huge and mature. For instance, according to the survey of Deloitte Consulting in 2010, the average sale price of film ticket in Chinese film market is 5.4 US dollar, it equals 2.5 percentage of monthly operating income of Chinese urban dweller; which is 8 times larger as U.S. Besides, in China, every 120,000 people shares one film screen, but in U.S. every 7,900 people shares one film screen[9]. Therefore, it is unreasonable to learn from U.S. without considering the obvious difference between Chinese animation industry and U.S. animation industry. |
| Funimation is why people continue to pirate. Also, OMEGALOL at country block on a blog post. |
this_shit_again said: Scrolling through this thread and reading about.. 'agendas', 'sjws', 'feminazis', '3rd wave feminist ideology', 'censorship', 'culture war'. Like.. I shouldn't be, but it still surprises me how nutty homophobes can get.. Your username makes your post even more funny. |
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Milennin said: You must be frightfully naive to think one company is why people pirate. They'd do so regardless and in abandon and if Funimation never existed they'd lose their poor excuse and find another. Funimation is why people continue to pirate. |
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| I haven't got time to write a full post or read the thread but I want to put a quick message out in support of the real anime fans that are pushing back against the insidious, harmful, joyless western ideologies that groups like Funimation are trying to spread to the Japanese Otaku subculture. We are better than that toxic mindset which sees problems in everything. Keep spreading the word. Don't give money to Funimation, Crunchyroll, Steam, or Netflix. Support the industry directly by buying merch / BDs of the specific anime you love [EDIT: same with manga / VN, though it's much easier to purchase those directly from good companies] and want to see more of. Your vote counts. Don't be lazy. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
YossaRedMage said: While you're at it, you should remember to say "We live in a society" just to put the crowd you're appealing to into perspective.I haven't got time to write a full post or read the thread but I want to put a quick message out in support of the real anime fans that are pushing back against the insidious, harmful, joyless western ideologies that groups like Funimation are trying to spread to the Japanese Otaku subculture. We are better than that toxic mindset which sees problems in everything. Keep spreading the word. Don't give money to Funimation, Crunchyroll, Steam, or Netflix. Support the industry directly by buying merch / BDs of the specific anime you love and want to see more of. Your vote counts. Don't be lazy. |
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Tylaen said: Milennin said: You must be frightfully naive to think one company is why people pirate. They'd do so regardless and in abandon and if Funimation never existed they'd lose their poor excuse and find another. Funimation is why people continue to pirate. As frightfully naive as anybody who would think people who want to support anime outside Japan but either can't, or are heavily disincentivised in doing so, or because companies exist who don't care but push their own agendas instead of offering the best service they can don't exist. |
Milennin said: You'd best isolate yourself to the basement if you're afraid of a political leaning. Plus, I find it mildly amusing you feel they're unable to provide better service due to their political leaning. Tylaen said: You must be frightfully naive to think one company is why people pirate. They'd do so regardless and in abandon and if Funimation never existed they'd lose their poor excuse and find another. As frightfully naive as anybody who would think people who want to support anime outside Japan but either can't, or are heavily disincentivised in doing so, or because companies exist who don't care but push their own agendas instead of offering the best service they can don't exist. Tell me, what politics do you want them to adopt? How does the progressive agenda hinder the quality of their services? If you say none, then I know you're not being honest with me. |
TylaenApr 3, 2020 10:14 AM
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hhvhhvcz said: Oh no, the horror!Ryuk9428 said: This is the part that sends shivers down my spine. If people are asking for evidence, that is the evidence right there. They are telling them to make stuff that targets the foreign audience more. The way anime is becoming more mainstream these days means that it won't be long before anime is partially being made for mainstream Americans too. This is fucking bullshit. If anything, it's this. very much THIS. People watch and love anime because It's NOT made in USA. It doesn't abide to the US morals, standards, politics or whatever. That's also the reason anime is either popular or gaining popularity in the rest of the world. It's unique, *mostly uninfluenced* pristine piece of media in the mud of made in USA #1. What shall we ever do?! ... |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
Yedrin said: For the people afraid that certain western ideologies will influence anime: It was always inevitable. You must not forget that american "culture" (lol) spreads its tentacles everywhere. It's only a matter of time until japanese animation is dominated by american influence. You see the state of western media in general? That's the future of eastern media also. Anime has gotten too mainstream in the west (although I suppose these ideologies would still spread in japanese society regardless of anime's popularity in america and europe). Cherish these next few years, because chances are, in the future anime shows will be completely different from what you have coming out now. Oh well. There are plenty of old shows, so no need to despair even if anime becomes something we don't like. Nah I don't think so. They censor some games cause shitty sony usa changed the censorship policy which spread to japan for whatever reason but I only think that is possible if they allow immigration in the country therefore changing the demographic and spreading the diversity cancer that is in the usa. |
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Tylaen said: Tell me, what politics do you want them to adopt? How does the progressive agenda hinder the quality of their services? If you say none, then I know you're not being honest with me. All they need to do is to translate the dialogue as accurately as possible, it's the only job they got. If fansubs can get the job done without agenda pushing, I'm sure a professional company can too. |
Milennin said: That's a very roundabout way of saying "none". Tylaen said: Tell me, what politics do you want them to adopt? How does the progressive agenda hinder the quality of their services? If you say none, then I know you're not being honest with me. All they need to do is to translate the dialogue as accurately as possible, it's the only job they got. If fansubs can get the job done without agenda pushing, I'm sure a professional company can too. And no, fansubs are not without an agenda. The fansubbers you speak of merely align with the agenda of the material they're translating as the ones who created it always had an agenda of their own, however implicit. I see you're fairly intent on not revealing your own agenda and pushing a fairly utopic vision of an individual without an agenda. It's nice information to have for the future. It's not a hard read though! |
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Kayle_x_Morgana said: It's only scary if you put Japan and Japanese fans on a pedestal like they can do no wrong and simultaneously presume the rest of the world to be a pit of voles.Anime is no longer focused solely on the Japanese market. Japanese companies are looking to foreign fans’ interest in titles. SCARY. And that's a pit of voles. Simultaneously scary yet also somehow incompetent at everything other than great evil. Alpha_Trannery said: What do the triple parentheses mean?Is anyone surprised by this? This is why all media is becoming shit. Once (((investor))) money is involved your favorite media industry is better off dead. Mienus said: Hear, hear!I honestly don't give a fuck about what some VA said on Twitter or the whole #KickVic drama, to me it all seems very asinine and petty and I doubt it would really affect any business decisions Funimation would make on a production committee anyway. With that out of the way, let's address the main people seem to be paranoid about: That this will lead to anime being "westernized" and by "westernized" what people really mean is "sanitized" by the evil SJW cabal that runs Funimation. The people who believe this, quite frankly, are flat fucking idiots. Not only has Funimation been licensing and distributing anime like Goblins Slayer and Citrus, they were also on the production committee for the show Plunderer, none of which I would really call watered down, or sanitized to pander to normies, regardless of whatever fucking trigger warning Funimation put at the start of Goblin Slayer episodes. People also tend to forget that just because their are shows with elements that can be considered "feminist" or pro-LGBT, that this isn't necessarily coming from a western influence. You've been getting feminist laden shit for decades, you just don't think of it as being so (the last thing a fish notices is the water it swims in). As far as LGBT shit goes,you've got stuff like Flip Flappers, Wandering Son, Stars Align, hell even fucking Zombieland Saga. So don't act like the stuff that is "polluting" your anime is being forced upon the Japanese by western forces - and complaining about it, quite frankly, you're also a western person complaining about Japanese media and wanting it to conform to your own values and ideas. I guess genuine artistic creativity flies out the window the second you don't like what it has to say. As far as shit being geared more towards a western audience, anime creators have been keying in on the potential of the western market for a while now. Good shit too has been made with western audiences in mind, just take Little Witch Academia for example. The idea that anime should only be geared to a Japanese audience to maintain some sort of sense of "purity" that would be tainted by a western audiences demands just strikes me as being weirdly fetishistic of Japanese people as a whole. Mienus said: First it was "Only Japan knows how to make anime properly."I do have to be amused at the irony of idiotic westerners getting upset that anime is being made for a broader audience, while the people actually making the anime they enjoy, seem to openly welcome the prospect of pleasing a wider audience. But clearly the people getting upset at Funimations are the ones with the intentions of the people making anime in mind. Then, when Japanese people decided to do things differently, these Japan-fetishizers instead say "Only Japan knows how to make anime properly in the ways that we consider proper." Can't even get their frickin' Japan fetish straight. Or maybe it wasn't about Japan anyway; it was just self-centeredness. Praising Japan and putting Japan in a pedestal merely aligned with their desires some of the time. Mienus said: This.That's fair, but I think it's important to understand that a lot of this content already geared towards a niche audience within Japan itself and I would argue that there is without a doubt an audience for these types of shows in the West as well. These sorts of very otaku centric anime don't exactly fall in line with a lot of mainstream Japanese media trends and there is a fair amount of cultural friction between this otaku subculture/counterculture and the more mainstream, conservative zeitgeist. Anime like Kiss x Sis certainly aren't being made for your average, everyday Japanese person, but rather your more eccentric, dedicated, weirdos who really jive with that sort of material, and I think there are plenty of people here in the West (like you and me) who want that sort of content brought to them as well, even if they may not even know it yet. And where there's a strong enough market demand, you're going to have licencors, maybe Funimation, maybe someone else, who are going to see that unmet demand and really key in on it. The west has well more than enough people that there are people with niche interests who like all those sorts of things that the hand-wringer types are afraid will sudddenly disappear because of "mainstreaming". No, the niches will continue to exist, and will do so healthily because there are literally even more people who appreciate those niches. Maybe one of these days we'll have another mecha show like the old ones, for example. People need to disabuse themselves of the illusion that "western culture" or "American culture" or "westerners" or whatever is some monolithic bloc that only ever thinks one way and only ever likes one thing. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Milennin said: Tylaen said: Tell me, what politics do you want them to adopt? How does the progressive agenda hinder the quality of their services? If you say none, then I know you're not being honest with me. All they need to do is to translate the dialogue as accurately as possible, it's the only job they got. If fansubs can get the job done without agenda pushing, I'm sure a professional company can too. What does 'accurate' mean exactly? Any linguist or anyone studying translation will tell you that such a thing doesn't exist. The same words in different languages almost always have different connotations, frequencies, associations and idealogical weight even if their core meaning is relative similar. Translating is always making a choice for one version and against another one. It all depends on the criteria, priorities and standards being applied. It's always an ideological decision by the translator. So there is no accuracy in the first place, just different versions that express or emphasize different aspects of the original meaning. People simply only notice ideology in translations when it goes against their own ideology. Or put differently, they only notice when certain triggerwords/phrases/ideas pop up that they are trained to react negatively to. Which ideas that are depends on whether you're left or right. Either it's anything that reminds you of diversity, inclusion and representation or, well, the opposite. And everybody thinks only the other side is being ideological because they're blind to the fact that they themselves are steeped in ideology. Try to remember that whenever you see something and think of it as not having an agenda, that it simply has your agenda. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| @GlennMagusHarvey Globalists. The globalists who hold most of the money who demand cultural homogeneity. Hell, we are suffering the consequences of globalism now. Basically everything gotta be kosher. I see it in anime already. I will give you 2 examples of japanese media funded by Amazon, foreign investor. First Promised Neverland, a show about children being preyed upon by a higher class of being that raises them like cattle and eats them Kamen Rider Amazons. You take a kid show about the good of humanity fighting evil to being a show of guess what? A class of beings that are stronger and better than human preying on and eating them. That is just amazon, I could go on about Netflix funded anime too. There is a trend I have noticed which is the more foreign money in Japanese productions the more depraved it gets. Hell a former Madhouse employee even talked about this, foreign investors demanded more depravity and degeneracy. |
  ♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
Alpha_Trannery said: First Promised Neverland, a show about children being preyed upon by a higher class of being that raises them like cattle and eats them This isn't new? At all? Just look at shit like fucking Gurren Lagann. How the hell is Promised Neverland globalist lmao. Is the Chimera Ant arc in HxH some sort of piece of globalist propaganda too? There is a trend I have noticed which is the more foreign money in Japanese productions the more depraved it gets. Hell a former Madhouse employee even talked about this, foreign investors demanded more depravity and degeneracy. Basically everything gotta be kosher. I see it in anime already. Wait wait no, that doesn't make any sense lol. So globalists want everything to be more sanitized and kosher and also more degenerate... what? And there has been depraved shit in anime for a super long fucking time. This is by no means a new phenomenon. Hell, the main man himself, Tezuka, was making trippy af, LSD ridden films way back in the 1960s with shit like 1001 Nights and Cleopatra. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Mienus said: Alpha_Trannery said: First Promised Neverland, a show about children being preyed upon by a higher class of being that raises them like cattle and eats them This isn't new? At all? Just look at shit like fucking Gurren Lagann. How the hell is Promised Neverland globalist lmao. Is the Chimera Ant arc in HxH some sort of piece of globalist propaganda too? There is a trend I have noticed which is the more foreign money in Japanese productions the more depraved it gets. Hell a former Madhouse employee even talked about this, foreign investors demanded more depravity and degeneracy. Basically everything gotta be kosher. I see it in anime already. Wait wait no, that doesn't make any sense lol. So globalists want everything to be more sanitized and kosher and also more degenerate... what? And there has been depraved shit in anime for a super long fucking time. This is by no means a new phenomenon. Hell, the main man himself, Tezuka, was making trippy af, LSD ridden films way back in the 1960s with shit like 1001 Nights and Cleopatra. Lol, you misunderstand my use of the word "Kosher" I use it in context to the content I reference. Content that is all about a class of people who have the normal humanity as cattle and they prey upon them. If you don't get what I am referencing then I just assume too much that people understand why I use the words I do. I did not ever say more sanitized. Also violence does not equal depravity. Saying the over the top violence of say Fist of the North Star or 70s Devilman is equal to say the tormenting of children in say Made in Abyss or Promised Neverland is not remotely realistic. Context. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
Alpha_Trannery said: FYI, if you want to complain about globalists, try picking something other than layered parentheses. That notation already belongs to antisemites who claim that Jews control everything.@GlennMagusHarvey Globalists. The globalists who hold most of the money who demand cultural homogeneity. Hell, we are suffering the consequences of globalism now. Basically everything gotta be kosher. I see it in anime already. ...or maybe, since you complain about stuff being "kosher", you're one of them anyway. Alpha_Trannery said: Congratulations, you discovered that anime storylines can have metaphorical/philosophical interpretations.I will give you 2 examples of japanese media funded by Amazon, foreign investor. First Promised Neverland, a show about children being preyed upon by a higher class of being that raises them like cattle and eats them Kamen Rider Amazons. You take a kid show about the good of humanity fighting evil to being a show of guess what? A class of beings that are stronger and better than human preying on and eating them. Because anime was doing this stuff long before it got popular in the west. Neon Genesis Evangelion, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Lain, ... |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Alpha_Trannery said: Content that is all about a class of people who have the normal humanity as cattle and they prey upon them. If you don't get what I am referencing then I just assume too much that people understand why I use the words I do. I know what you're talking about, but I'd appreciate it if you could just go full mask off. But, if this anime was being made by a specific group of people who are preying upon the rest of the world, why would the media they make be depicting those types of people as the bad guys? Seems kinda counterintuitive, doesn't it? Also violence does not equal depravity. Saying the over the top violence of say Fist of the North Star or 70s Devilman is equal to say the tormenting of children in say Made in Abyss or Promised Neverland is not remotely realistic. Context. So then look at something like Evangelion, or Bokurano, Genocyber is famous for butchering kids via machine gun fire. Then you've got shit like Higurashi. Kids being mutilated isn't anything new to anime, not even remotely. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| @GlennMagusHarvey Yes now let's look deeper. First let's say that there is a group of people who it is in their core beliefs that the rest of humanity is cattle to be preyed upon and taken advantage of. Now let's talk about predictive programming. The idea that you make heinous and depraved acts seem less so through exposure to it. Now the pieces are coming together. A group of people who want their preying upon others, primarily children to be normalized through repeated exposure. @Mienus Also I can tag you in this, this might make my views more clear. This is the lens I view the world through. So say that infamous scene in genocyber where kids are being killed by machine gun fire I still don't view the same as say Rainbow which depicts sexual abuse of minors with a very distinct predator dynamic. It's not even all about children but instead the presenting the idea that there is a class of people who seek to prey on others and make the concept of that less overtly surprising. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
Mienus said: Alpha_Trannery said: Content that is all about a class of people who have the normal humanity as cattle and they prey upon them. If you don't get what I am referencing then I just assume too much that people understand why I use the words I do. I know what you're talking about, but I'd appreciate it if you could just go full mask off. But, if this anime was being made by a specific group of people who are preying upon the rest of the world, why would the media they make be depicting those types of people as the bad guys? Seems kinda counterintuitive, doesn't it? Also violence does not equal depravity. Saying the over the top violence of say Fist of the North Star or 70s Devilman is equal to say the tormenting of children in say Made in Abyss or Promised Neverland is not remotely realistic. Context. So then look at something like Evangelion, or Bokurano, Genocyber is famous for butchering kids via machine gun fire. Then you've got shit like Higurashi. Kids being mutilated isn't anything new to anime, not even remotely. Even the Violence Jack OVAs had scenes of kids being murdered in horrible ways. |
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| the downfall of anime is very possible and i've been saying that since the day i became active here |
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Alpha_Trannery said: Yet somehow people are still just as shocked by real-life events even after their creative media have depicted them. Perhaps that's because your idea is wrong as most people can tell fiction from reality.@GlennMagusHarvey Yes now let's look deeper. First let's say that there is a group of people who it is in their core beliefs that the rest of humanity is cattle to be preyed upon and taken advantage of. Now let's talk about predictive programming. The idea that you make heinous and depraved acts seem less so through exposure to it. Alpha_Trannery said: You're just trying to read some sort of grand narrative into real life. Perhaps you have trouble differentiating fiction from reality.Now the pieces are coming together. A group of people who want their preying upon others, primarily children to be normalized through repeated exposure. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Alpha_Trannery said: @GlennMagusHarvey Yes now let's look deeper. First let's say that there is a group of people who it is in their core beliefs that the rest of humanity is cattle to be preyed upon and taken advantage of. Now let's talk about predictive programming. The idea that you make heinous and depraved acts seem less so through exposure to it. You've got a long way to go before you can make the case that The Promised Neverland or Made in Abyss normalize violence or whatever the fuck you're talking about. Simply depicting something in media doesn't normalize it, you'd need to be a total retard to think that. Schindler's List doesn't exactly normalize the Holocaust, now does it? @Mienus Also I can tag you in this, this might make my views more clear. This is the lens I view the world through. Seems more like a plastic bag that's suffocating you and causing brain damage, rather than any sort of "lens" but okay. So say that infamous scene in genocyber where kids are being killed by machine gun fire I still don't view the same as say Rainbow which depicts sexual abuse of minors with a very distinct predator dynamic. It's not even all about children but instead the presenting the idea that there is a class of people who seek to prey on others and make the concept of that less overtly surprising. And again, this rests on the very reductive notion that because something is depicted in media, it is promoting it and or normalizing it. If your goal as a world order of zion- I mean "globalists" is to placate people to the idea of this, maybe don't present yourselves as literal demons like in Promised Neverland? Again, if I were part of this world order, I think I would be trying to do the opposite tbqh. Y'know, a lot of dictators didn't use imagery of them performing heinous acts as propaganda to solidify their rule. They did the opposite, they made themselves look like heroes, regardless of how grounded in reality it was. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| @GlennMagusHarvey I would argue less though still but I can concede this is still is pretty early stages on a grand cultural scale atleast from a media standpoint. But let's say religion. There are religions out there that say, normalize pedophilia, let's go Catholicism and Islam. Let's look at the spheres and times where their influence is strongest and you will see less empathy overall. Now I will present the idea of Brands being the new religion. People will flock to the brands they have grown up with like say anime, star wars, videogames etc. Brands are the new religion to control thought. And if I have a problem differentiating fiction from reality I will be the first to say I am wrong but I need a diagnosis from a mental health professional so until that time comes I am operating under the pretense I have a strong divide. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
EcchiGodMamster said: the downfall of anime is very possible and i've been saying that since the day i became active here I think some people have move past the downfall of anime in this thread and are taking this as a precursor to the downfall of Japanese and Western civilization. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Alpha_Trannery said: Yeah, you're just spouting bullshit. Take Catholicism for example -- if it "normalizes pedophilia", then all those priests who had funny relations with those kids wouldn't have to be so in-the-closet about it.@GlennMagusHarvey I would argue less though still but I can concede this is still is pretty early stages on a grand cultural scale atleast from a media standpoint. But let's say religion. There are religions out there that say, normalize pedophilia, let's go Catholicism and Islam. Alpha_Trannery said: Protip: Not everything is a global conspiracy. In fact, most things are not.Now I will present the idea of Brands being the new religion. People will flock to the brands they have grown up with like say anime, star wars, videogames etc. Brands are the new religion to control thought. Alpha_Trannery said: By being a conspiracy theorist, that's proof enough and plain to see.And if I have a problem differentiating fiction from reality I will be the first to say I am wrong but I need a diagnosis from a mental health professional so until that time comes I am operating under the pretense I have a strong divide. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
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