| Discuss why anime is an immature medium of art, and why it can never be better than cinema or literature. Age of the medium completely aside, if you compare the peaks of anime against the peaks of film, it's immediately obvious that film is a much more complete medium. Look at the number of visionary directors and writers in film/literature...now compare that to the number of directors in anime who even have a recognizable style. Doesn't compare. You can expand this to essentially any theme, genre, classification, or otherwise. If it's been done, cinema and literature have done it better, but why? This doesn't boil down to a difference in taste, either- it's an objective fact that anime rarely explores certain themes like homosexuality (beyond a purely sexual gratification lens), or even satire, lampooning current events and issues of the society from which it originated- of which there are many, like anywhere else. What anime do you see critiquing Japanese societal problems, that, again, aren't limited to hikikomori/NEET activities? Be that in metaphorical form or otherwise. But why not? Is that because these things aren't popular and won't sell (read: immature artform), or because they aren't salient enough to be considered? |
| How to fix the review section, detailed here The average reader (HS level) reads at about 200 WPM. So a 500-800 word review should take 3-5 minutes to read. That's an acceptable length for something you're interested in spending 25 minutes to 4.5 hours of your life watching. Oh, and ANN requires any and all reviews to be 800-1200 words, no matter the length of the show. |
| It is the communty whom are immature... Too much butthurt people dude, think about that... xD There are satires like SZS... Yes, if anime industry try to do what western does, it will be hard to compete... |
| It's not. Holywood dumps out the same garbage. And anime is a very localised thing in Japan that caters mostly to Japanese people's interests, comparing it to something like "cinema" is too broad. |
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Aquamirror said: It's not. Holywood dumps out the same garbage. And anime is a very localised thing in Japan that catters mostly to Japanese people's interests, comparing it to something like "cinema" is too broad. comparing "anime" to "cinema" is too broad? 0.5/10 troll there bud. It's called a "medium" for a reason. 1. an agency or means of doing something. -"using the latest technology as a medium for job creation" a means by which something is communicated or expressed. -"here the Welsh language is the medium of instruction" |
| How to fix the review section, detailed here The average reader (HS level) reads at about 200 WPM. So a 500-800 word review should take 3-5 minutes to read. That's an acceptable length for something you're interested in spending 25 minutes to 4.5 hours of your life watching. Oh, and ANN requires any and all reviews to be 800-1200 words, no matter the length of the show. |
DateYutaka said: this topic shows who have know read enough manga and most modern hollywood movies are shallow as well that is fact I didn't say anything about manga. I also didn't stratify the mediums by age. In fact, I EXPLICITLY stated Age of the medium completely aside in the second sentence. You can counter your lack of a point and concrete evidence by saying that recent anime are all boob comedies @dateyukata said: are shallow as well that is fact |
| How to fix the review section, detailed here The average reader (HS level) reads at about 200 WPM. So a 500-800 word review should take 3-5 minutes to read. That's an acceptable length for something you're interested in spending 25 minutes to 4.5 hours of your life watching. Oh, and ANN requires any and all reviews to be 800-1200 words, no matter the length of the show. |
| Anime is escapist medium entertainment. Plus with the existence of wish fulfillment type of anime, it become obvious. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| Because anime is bad and made for NEET shut-in man babies. Very, very, very few are worth any artistic merit. |
| Why the need to make such a direct comparison? According to what titles, what cinema, what literature? Anime in its majority is aimed to a rather juvenile audience, based on that cinema and literature in general don't get precisely benefited. If anything you can criticise anime for being repetitive to an extent and/or for its questionable self-referential attempts. For over-presuming a sectoral appeal and abusing its demographic distinctions by enhancing particular clichés. Then again, is it factually worse? |
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 Long short answer : If I considered anime as an immature medium and thought cinemas and literature are better.., then I probably wouldn't have started watching anime in the first place.. I'd rather stick with those cinemas and literature! The thing is, I find anime really fun.. That's why I stick with anime rather than watching other stuff like normies.. Anime(some of them, at least) is often more intelligent and creative than most other medium... Most people just don't notice them and keeps watching stupid shit like Attack on Titan... Not our fault that they can't find any real quality intelligence in anime... |
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| the funny thing that other mediums are more garbage than anime (except video games medium) |
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| "if you compare the peaks of anime against the peaks of film, it's immediately obvious that film is a much more complete medium." Can't disagree with that. The best movies wreck the best anime in terms of story. However, when it comes to action and characters, animators can simply do that better, because they can just draw that instead of depending on actors and special effects. Most of anime action just looks better compared to all those famous action movies. "If it's been done, cinema and literature have done it better" Gurren Lagann. Has any other medium did mechas fighting in space better? Romance. Most of the romance in both cinema are bland, but anime excels at romantic comedies. There goes one argument. "This doesn't boil down to a difference in taste, either- it's an objective fact that anime rarely explores certain themes like homosexuality (beyond a purely sexual gratification lens), or even satire, lampooning current events and issues of the society from which it originated- of which there are many, like anywhere else." This clearly boils down to taste. When did exploring homosexuality, satire,lampooning current events and issues of the society make anything good? If we are talking about being objective, it is not the concept that make something great, it's the execution. Should have thought about that when you were making this. Satire is also subjective. Another argument down. "What anime do you see critiquing Japanese societal problems, that, again, aren't limited to hikikomori/NEET activities? Be that in metaphorical form or otherwise." Serial Experiments Lain, Revolutionary Girl Utena, and from what I heard Paranoia Agent. There are many others. Another one bites the dust. You are not wrong, but you cannot prove it with your lame arguments. Once you get better, come back and try again. Unless you are trying to troll, in which case good job, I took the bait. I don't think you did though. |
Zapredon said: Anime is escapist medium entertainment. Plus with the existence of wish fulfillment type of anime, it become obvious. Like every other medium. 12345678910 |
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DateYutaka said: Werty800 said: "if you compare the peaks of anime against the peaks of film, it's immediately obvious that film is a much more complete medium." Can't disagree with that. The best movies wreck the best anime in terms of story. However, when it comes to action and characters, animators can simply do that better, because they can just draw that instead of depending on actors and special effects. Most of anime action just looks better compared to all those famous action movies. "If it's been done, cinema and literature have done it better" Gurren Lagann. Has any other medium did mechas fighting in space better? Romance. Most of the romance in both cinema are bland, but anime excels at romantic comedies. There goes one argument. "This doesn't boil down to a difference in taste, either- it's an objective fact that anime rarely explores certain themes like homosexuality (beyond a purely sexual gratification lens), or even satire, lampooning current events and issues of the society from which it originated- of which there are many, like anywhere else." This clearly boils down to taste. When did exploring homosexuality, satire,lampooning current events and issues of the society make anything good? If we are talking about being objective, it is not the concept that make something great, it's the execution. Should have thought about that when you were making this. Satire is also subjective. Another argument down. "What anime do you see critiquing Japanese societal problems, that, again, aren't limited to hikikomori/NEET activities? Be that in metaphorical form or otherwise." Serial Experiments Lain, Revolutionary Girl Utena, and from what I heard Paranoia Agent. There are many others. Another one bites the dust. You are not wrong, but you cannot prove it with your lame arguments. Once you get better, come back and try again. Unless you are trying to troll, in which case good job, I took the bait. I don't think you did though. your partyly right partyly very worng Not trying to sound like a grammar nazi, but it's partly, not partyly, not to mention the rest of the sentence. Also, explain what you mean. You make no sense |
lawlmartz said: This doesn't boil down to a difference in taste, either- it's an objective fact that anime rarely explores certain themes like homosexuality (beyond a purely sexual gratification lens), or even satire, lampooning current events and issues of the society from which it originated- of which there are many, like anywhere else. What anime do you see critiquing Japanese societal problems, that, again, aren't limited to hikikomori/NEET activities? Be that in metaphorical form or otherwise. I actually like that aspect of anime. I hate how the mere fact that a person writes about poor people and tell us how they are miserable (aka what we already know) makes such person a literary genius or something. The kind of social commentary anime does are much more interesting. Oregairu, for example, goes deep into the mind of teenagers and how the high school society acts based on lies and faking. This is much better than telling us for the zillionth time that there is discrimination and hate and poverty and all sorts of bad things we see in the news every day. Also, satires are the worst genre of fiction imo. I just rly rly hate them. So I'm really glad anime doesn't have much stuff like South Park. |
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I'm uh, gonna need to see some credentials here. What bearing does that have on this anyway? This somehow makes you qualified to have objectively correct opinions? |
| How to fix the review section, detailed here The average reader (HS level) reads at about 200 WPM. So a 500-800 word review should take 3-5 minutes to read. That's an acceptable length for something you're interested in spending 25 minutes to 4.5 hours of your life watching. Oh, and ANN requires any and all reviews to be 800-1200 words, no matter the length of the show. |
| OT : As far as cinemas go, most of them then to be FAR MORE immature and boring then anime is... That's where you're wrong dude.. Just try to mention 3 movies that delivers the same quality as Steins;Gate.... @Werty800, DataYukata is Japanese and uses Katakana English... Just try to read them casually and you'll understand... |
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| I would argue it's a changing medium. Slowly anime is become widely popular all over the world. Just like video games used to be considered a mindless, brain-dead hobby and is now one of the most popular mediums in the world. The fact that Hollywood is making anime/manga into movies now is proof of this. It may not be on par with the rest of the industry yet, but it's a media form that is slowly changing from immature to commonplace. People can say anime is dying all they want, it isn't. |
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Z-Dante said: OT : As far as cinemas go, most of them then to be FAR MORE immature and boring then anime is... That's where you're wrong dude.. Just try to mention 3 movies that delivers the same quality as Steins;Gate.... @Werty800, DataYukata is Japanese and uses Katakana English... Just try to read them casually and you'll understand... Yeah I realised that afterwards, gonna apologise if he responds. I still want to know what he means by partially wrong and partially right. As for 3 movies with the same quality, even I can name them. Green Mile, Forrest Gump, and Pulp Fiction. |
lawlmartz said: You can expand this to essentially any theme, genre, classification, or otherwise. If it's been done, cinema and literature have done it better, but why? This doesn't boil down to a difference in taste, either- it's an objective fact that anime rarely explores certain themes like homosexuality (beyond a purely sexual gratification lens), or even satire, lampooning current events and issues of the society from which it originated- of which there are many, like anywhere else. What anime do you see critiquing Japanese societal problems, that, again, aren't limited to hikikomori/NEET activities? Be that in metaphorical form or otherwise. But why not? Is that because these things aren't popular and won't sell (read: immature artform), or because they aren't salient enough to be considered? You will more likely see a wish fulfillment anime with fan service,moe,grown up girls acting childlish,girls flocking to MC just because he's MC and waifu material selling well than anime that explore those themes you talking about.More down to earth anime like Showa Rakugo will be great. Btw, this thread will probably trigger lots of people. Johnnyd3rp said: Zapredon said: Anime is escapist medium entertainment. Plus with the existence of wish fulfillment type of anime, it become obvious. Like every other medium. 12345678910 Naah. |
ZapredonDec 2, 2016 11:41 AM
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
Z-Dante said: OT : As far as cinemas go, most of them then to be FAR MORE immature and boring then anime is... That's where you're wrong dude.. Just try to mention 3 movies that delivers the same quality as Steins;Gate.... Okay, similar genre and themes as Steins Gate? Memento, Fight Club, The Machinist. I'm not speaking in relatives and individual titles here. I'm talking about the mediums as a whole. Otherwise this turns into a "list your favorite anime or film" thread. Also, quantify what you mean by immature here. In the sense I'm talking about, I'm referring to how it has evolved over time and the things it addresses vs what's taboo, deep, or edgy. Showing ankles in the 1700s was scandalous. Now you can get naked on TV. Use ya brain a little. |
| How to fix the review section, detailed here The average reader (HS level) reads at about 200 WPM. So a 500-800 word review should take 3-5 minutes to read. That's an acceptable length for something you're interested in spending 25 minutes to 4.5 hours of your life watching. Oh, and ANN requires any and all reviews to be 800-1200 words, no matter the length of the show. |
DateYutaka said: Werty800 said: Not trying to sound like a grammar nazi, but it's partly, not partyly, not to mention the rest of the sentence. Also, explain what you mean. You make no sense while as crtic a n some who as study film hollywood as a whole as fallen from the hights of Kane to a puff piece on war criminal like Ryan and anime even alot of famous anime im not really a fan of have had smine good meta commanery like monogatari franchsie or jinrou or eva or even aera 88 or Hotaru no haka ahve lot more dath then nay of the top 10 higets grossing moves of the past 10 years without being pandering in most case either and plus over all Japan asa whoel i not so reboot happy so more stuff gte put out that is new and fresh as a whole First off, sorry, I only realised afterwards that you are Japanese. I was just countering his arguments, I'm not saying he is wrong. You are also right. I don't think that anime can achieve something that cinema or literature achieved in some areas, like characters and story, but I also don't think that they can achieve some heights that anime did in some other, more simple areas. There is definetely more in depth stories that hit harder into current problems, unlike in anime today. |
Werty800Dec 2, 2016 11:49 AM
| Literature and cinema are bigger industries aimed at a more wide public. More people involved means more competition and talent putting their effort into the industry. Moreover I think anime is also limited by fanservice. Z-Dante said: What quality?OT : As far as cinemas go, most of them then to be FAR MORE immature and boring then anime is... That's where you're wrong dude.. Just try to mention 3 movies that delivers the same quality as Steins;Gate.... |
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| Film might be a more complete medium, but I'll be danmed if I said I enjoyed the current result of Film as a medium compared to anime as a medium at it's current state. I'm invested in anime for the sake of entertainment. Not for the sake of measuring the size of my mind-dick as to what is the most 'mature' embodiment of concept via medium. But I do want to tackle one point you brought up: "What anime do you see critiquing Japanese societal problems, that, again, aren't limited to hikikomori/NEET activities? Be that in metaphorical form or otherwise." This is a limitation of the Japanese society. It is still not ok in even the slightest way to critique, insult, or suggest improvement/change to the Japanese Government and Society, even if there would be no negative repercussions. I also want to bring up one other thing, and that is the sheer variety of film. Film can be made from any country, US, UK, EU, Russia, Japan, China, Isreal, etc, etc. Anime is typically limited to only Japanese and South Korean animation (and depending on who you ask, maybe Chinese animation). The amount of film put out yearly smashes the amount of anime put out yearly, without contest. And this leads into one other thing about film, and that would be the location-sensitive topics. A film made in Hollywood isn't going to echo the same thematic sentiments of a film made in Tel Aviv, or a film made in a backshop of Romania. Film has the advantage of so many different minds and so many different lifestyles influencing it, while Anime is constrained to only interior influence akin to selective inbreeding, and minimal influence from the outside world, not to mention a very restrictive number of location-sensitive topics because Anime is merely limited to Japan/South Korea/China. With such a massive difference in production rate, and the variety of different location-sensitive topics that film could cover, Anime will never have a chance to compete. |
"I'd take rampant lesbianism over nuclear armageddon or a supervolcano any day." ~nikiforova |
DateYutaka said: Werty800 said: Yeah I realised that afterwards, gonna apologise if he responds. I still want to know what he means by partially wrong and partially right. As for 3 movies with the same quality, even I can name them. Green Mile, Forrest Gump, and Pulp Fiction. Pulp fiction i dont really rate hight green mile - personnaly i think shawkshank is better movie as whole one of the few time king whote anyhtign that did not have supernatuals shit and Forrest Gump is just a so so adpation of a much better novel while its nt dune level it not far of That's kinda subjecitve don't you think? Anyway, I think that you can definetely name movies with the same quality, since that's kinda your job :D |
| Lol this strikes to me as closeted shame for liking anime and nothing else. Also your "mature themes" are entirely subjective |
Z-Dante said: Long short answer : If I considered anime as an immature medium and thought cinemas and literature are better.., then I probably wouldn't have started watching anime in the first place.. I'd rather stick with those cinemas and literature! The thing is, I find anime really fun.. That's why I stick with anime rather than watching other stuff like normies.. Anime(some of them, at least) is often more intelligent and creative than most other medium... Most people just don't notice them and keeps watching stupid shit like Attack on Titan... Not our fault that they can't find any real quality intelligence in anime... Some of anime you gave a 10 are certainly not "intelligent" though. If you think AOT is stupid, that is. |
DateYutaka said: no anime is not a memuim is a genre with in cinima anime is shorten Japaniation of the word animation so compare side by side us tv animation with Japanese tv animation and you but that runis yur ideals look, I get that you're trying really hard to rustle my jimmies, but let's be clear here. You are arguing against objective facts here. Anime is a medium, just like manga. You can call it whatever you want, but it is a creation of Japanese origin that serves the purpose of communicating ideas, themes, etc in a visual format with moving pictures. It is a visual medium of entertainment. Period I'm not comparing US animation with Japanese animation. Go back, read what I said on the first post. If you would like to make a thread on that matter yourself- feel free. |
| How to fix the review section, detailed here The average reader (HS level) reads at about 200 WPM. So a 500-800 word review should take 3-5 minutes to read. That's an acceptable length for something you're interested in spending 25 minutes to 4.5 hours of your life watching. Oh, and ANN requires any and all reviews to be 800-1200 words, no matter the length of the show. |
| As a film production major, I've actually done research projects on this. Supposedly in Culture Theory there are things that are "high culture" and things that are "low culture". The fine arts such as painting, poetry, theatre, ballet, classical music, etc are high culture. Movies, TV, comics, and anime are considered low culture, meaning they have no true value to society other than to entertain. It was also claimed that low culture kept the status quo of progress, ie whatever appealed to the masses to rake in money and feed into the dominant ideology. High culture claimed to address social/economic/political issues in an attempt to rectify them. But then again, that's only if you subscribe to that idea. tl;dr Both are shit. |
Ryo_Misaki said: Try not to bring the western standards here in anime...Some of anime you gave a 10 are certainly not "intelligent" though. If you think AOT is stupid, that is. In the West - some flashy fights + art/animation + blood/gore + death = OMG!! So deep and mature! 10/10 best animu ever!! They don't really work like that anime.. I'd rather judge something by how they create an art out of simplicity... |
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| It's far more easier to animate and cater to an audience for their base desires. In cinema, there's more restrictions when dealing with actual people, hence when you have less freedom to do something, it forces you to use the tools at your disposal in ways that are challenging but rewarding when pulled off. Perhaps you could say film had a journey of producing a peak after peak of quality because of discovering breakthroughs of sound design, lighting, editing, and special effects. Anime is kind of a late-bloomer, as the tools developed and polished by the evolution of cinema had already surpassed it. What happens is that ironically, you have an overabundance of tools to craft any story you want, but instead you ultimately choose the safest and easiest stories to tell and sell. Unlike film that had to continually go outside of its comfort zone and push the boundaries considering it was spear-heading its own rise of a medium. I believe overall the point I'm trying to make is that anime is late to the party, and therefore the challenges aren't as extreme, especially when it only started to gain traction when technology was exponentially increasing into the digital age. |
 Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is. |
lawlmartz said: a genre is "a category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content," while a medium is a "material or technical means of artistic expression."DateYutaka said: no anime is not a memuim is a genre with in cinima anime is shorten Japaniation of the word animation so compare side by side us tv animation with Japanese tv animation and you but that runis yur ideals look, I get that you're trying really hard to rustle my jimmies, but let's be clear here. You are arguing against objective facts here. Anime is a medium, just like manga. You can call it whatever you want, but it is a creation of Japanese origin that serves the purpose of communicating ideas, themes, etc in a visual format with moving pictures. It is a visual medium of entertainment. Period I'm not comparing US animation with Japanese animation. Go back, read what I said on the first post. If you would like to make a thread on that matter yourself- feel free. animation -> medium anime -> (vaguely) genre |
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lawlmartz said: ...Doesn't compare... No it certainly doesn't, why are you trying to compare them in the first place? However, as an avid moviegoer and anime fan all I have to do is look at some stats if I want to see which one is superior or inferior: Live action Films and TV Owned: 282 Anime Films and TV Owned: 739 ...not that I believe one is better than the other though. They're both very entertaining. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| If by "anime" you mean "japanese animation", the comparison is strange. You can't compare the production of a single country in a medium to the worldwide production of other media. It is just not fair. Try to compare the german cinema to worldwide litterature etc... By the way, litterature had a significant amount of time ahead. And I don't think we should say that animation who hasn't matured yet is inferior to litterature because of it. At least, cinema is as old as animation and could make a better comparison. @BadAppleWhite There was even a time where fictional litterature was in the low category, right? @DateYutaka My bad, I didn't want to paraphrase but the opening message irritated me so much that I jumped on a reply instead of reading the existing answers. What is a "baffoon" ? |
Rei_IIIDec 2, 2016 12:03 PM
| Better yet, let's do the opposite just to spite you and say some artistic truth. It's a unique and beautiful medium with the kinds it graphic and dramatic stories that simply aren't possible in other mediums. Do you think Fate/Zero, Code Geass, and especially Gurren Lagann would be possible elsewhere? No. There are many other points I can bring, but this is the one I'll use for now. It may not have grown as much, so it's biggest achievements aren't as numerous, but its achievements are big enough to rival many of those of live action film, western cartoon, and live action television. |
| Being wrong is just an occupational hazard. Follow me on twitter. I have an anitube channel so feel free to check it out and subscribe if you like what you see. |
| i can confirm more people watch porn than hentai so film>anime |
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