| You're as eloquent as ever, I see. The way you insist on marrying dependent clauses brings to mind the incoherent ramblings of a drunken schizophrenic. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
| Is this in relation to that Toei thread? |
| Is this about KyoAni? |
| this is the official toei fanwank thread |
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| people like me want both that animators to do better animation and have better wage |
FGAU1912 said: same with Artland, MAPPA and Brain's Base?BlueKite said: Is this in relation to that Toei thread? no it is in more relation to the the news topic about wages that was posted a few monts back [ side note i may not like kip ani for that mode of bisuues but i repesct that for the fatc thay pay living wage] to all tthere staff one of the 3 stuudios that do Bandai/Sunrise Kyo ani and toei but i know for a fact studios like ufortable pay slave wage and there is nothing the union can do about it cause they hire non unionized workers |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
FGAU1912 said: BlueKite said: Is this in relation to that Toei thread? no it is in more relation to the the news topic about wages that was posted a few monts back [ side note i may not like kip ani for that mode of bisuues but i repesct that for the fatc thay pay living wage] to all tthere staff one of the 3 stuudios that do Bandai/Sunrise Kyo ani and toei but i know for a fact studios like ufortable pay slave wage and there is nothing the union can do about it cause they hire non unionized workers I think I heard somewhere that Osamu Tezuka said that animation is cheaper to make than live-action (when in reality it's not) so he will not have competition. |
FGAU1912 said: in Japan any way is 3.5 times or more for animation than live action [ at lest in production cost front end but live action had more agaets to del with and pay off [ well after the mid 70's when the idea of the aidou was born Was there any instances where animators protested because of the slave wages? |
| Had to read it like 5 times, and im still not sure what are you trying to say. So if i get it right, you are pointing at people who rage about slave wages, yet praise their work, and they bash the ones who pay their workers well? I don't know how's that double standard. A studio is praised or bashed because of the quality of their work. I might dislike that they don't pay their workers well, but that isn't a reason to unapreciate the outcome. And just because they pay their workforce well, does not mean i have to rate 10 everything they put on the table. Edit. Use the damn edit button. It's there for a reason... |
| Wait, so you mean to tell me, i should dislike every anime that comes from a studio that pays slave wages? Or is this the part where im supposed to smile and cry at the same time? |
| How a studio treats its employees has nothing to do with the quality of an anime series. Ideally yes, I would like every studio to treat their staff well. But that has no relevance to a plot's direction, pacing, quality consistency, or visual appeal. This reminds me of the Kokoro Connect scandal. Sure, that was a dick move and there should be consequences. But to want to blacklisted seiyuu with talent or to refuse to watch a show that they're involved in even if it's phenomenal otherwise? I don't know, maybe it's a norm in Japan to mix business with enjoyment. I'll stick to The Godfather and keep business and personal separate. |
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| do they forced to do that job? do they dont have a chance to quit from that job? do they protest about it? |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
offmodel said: Yeah I should have worded it better, it's true that the treatment of the staff can show in a work. What I meant is that from my perspective as a viewer and audience member, what happens behind the scenes has no bearing on my opinion of what I'm presented with. If it turns out that the team behind Diabolik Lovers was paid well and worshiped by the studio, that's great. Good for them. Doesn't stop me from hating it for all that it's worth. On the other hand you could tell me that people literally died creating Trust and Betrayal. My deepest condolences to them, my favorite list is not budging regardless.Ratohnhaketon said: How a studio treats its employees has nothing to do with the quality of an anime series. Ideally yes, I would like every studio to treat their staff well. But that has no relevance to a plot's direction, pacing, quality consistency, or visual appeal. I dunno, I do think he has a bit of a point, kidding aside. Sunrise (who do treat their employees decently) were putting out some really great shows both in terms of the artistic merit and raw production quality in the late 90's that didn't do well in Japan (Cowboy Bebop, The Big O, Gasaraki) while the crappier shows turned a profit. At some point you have to realize it's a business, Gainax would've gone under if they'd tried to make a follow up to Honneamise. Bebop found a solid international audience, The Big O kind of did (but not really), Gasaraki didn't do anything... *But if a studio that pays slaves wages makes a good show, I'm still gonna watch it. |
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FGAU1912 said: BlueKite said: Is this in relation to that Toei thread? no it is in more relation to the the news topic about wages that was posted a few monts back [ side note i may not like kip ani for that mode of bisuues but i repesct that for the fatc thay pay living wage] to all tthere staff one of the 3 stuudios that do Bandai/Sunrise Kyo ani and toei but i know for a fact studios like ufortable pay slave wage and there is nothing the union can do about it cause they hire non unionized workers How can ufotable pay "slave" wages when their works look so beautiful? |
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| Most people don't know Toei pays well, though. And they bash Toei for their animation quality, nor their wage. |
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FGAU1912 said: Vargr said: Wait, so you mean to tell me, i should dislike every anime that comes from a studio that pays slave wages? Or is this the part where im supposed to smile and cry at the same time? would you like to have them sort wages yourself but i supose my left wing side show more in this subject and peoples right wing ideals will show more in this ideal I just fail to understand you, your point, and this thread generally. Im living in Hungary, i can assure you, our wages are way belove of anyone in Japan. And yes, i can be angry at them because they pay slave wages, yet apreciate the work they do. Because when i apreciate an anime, i apreciate the job that has been done, not the (possibly) fat dude that makes the decisions. Also, following your logic. Why don't you throw out your computer, phone, tv etc on the window? Because you can be sure, it's parts were manufactured and assembled by people who work for actual slave wages. |
VargrMay 27, 2015 11:56 PM
| OP wants to get us banned by criticizing MAL. |
#CHEXIT |
| That's not even how double-standards work. Those studios get hate/love cuz people do'nt judge them based on how well they pay their worker, they judge them on how well they do their People do'nt hate your precious TOEI cuz of their payroll, they hate them cuz of their Shitty working standards, the reverse is true for the "laet nihgt anime" studios you semm to have a Hate-boner for Not to mention, most people do'nt even know about these stuff (and to be blunt, do'nt really care) |
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King_of_Devils said: That's not even how double-standards work. Those studios get hate/love cuz people do'nt judge them based on how well they pay their worker, they judge them on how well they do their People do'nt hate your precious TOEI cuz of their payroll, they hate them cuz of their Shitty working standards, the reverse is true for the "laet nihgt anime" studios you semm to have a Hate-boner for Not to mention, most people do'nt even know about these stuff (and to be blunt, do'nt really care) I think he's running for politics. He knows so much about these shit and wants us to be aware of this. |
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Tenshi_Shura said: Still a better presidential candidate than Hillary Clinton.King_of_Devils said: That's not even how double-standards work. Those studios get hate/love cuz people do'nt judge them based on how well they pay their worker, they judge them on how well they do their People do'nt hate your precious TOEI cuz of their payroll, they hate them cuz of their Shitty working standards, the reverse is true for the "laet nihgt anime" studios you semm to have a Hate-boner for Not to mention, most people do'nt even know about these stuff (and to be blunt, do'nt really care) I think he's running for politics. He knows so much about these shit and wants us to be aware of this. |
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| how well are the sazae san animators paid? |
 |
FGAU1912 said: Vargr said: I just fail to understand you, your point, and this thread generally. Im living in Hungary, i can assure you, our wages are way belove of anyone in Japan. And yes, i can be angry at them because they pay slave wages, yet apreciate the work they do. Because when i apreciate an anime, i apreciate the job that has been done, not the (possibly) fat dude that makes the decisions. Also, following your logic. Why don't you throw out your computer, phone, tv etc on the window? Because you can be sure, it's parts were manufactured and assembled by people who work for actual slave wages. no i doubt that if yiu take cost of linive to acount eg tokyo weekly cost of live for most is around 800-1000 usd per week most anime studos that get parise on mal pay under 300 600 usd weekly AND ANI MATORS cannot take second jobs cause most animators are contractors and not independent they tied to the stuio thay work with for say a contract of 5 shows[ for exmaple] King_of_Devils said: That's not even how double-standards work. Those studios get hate/love cuz people do'nt judge them based on how well they pay their worker, they judge them on how well they do their People do'nt hate your precious TOEI cuz of their payroll, they hate them cuz of their Shitty working standards, the reverse is true for the "laet nihgt anime" studios you semm to have a Hate-boner for Not to mention, most people do'nt even know about these stuff (and to be blunt, do'nt really care) kyo an pay they satff well i prase them for that and that alone but thats cuse they based in kyoto were the cost of living onl the 5th higest in Japan weekly cost of living is aroun 350 usd per week thay have to pay that or unions would rip them apart [ Japanese unions are powerfull] beside france and tmyabe a few other euro nation Japanese union are the best run in the world its a reiggonal thing studio like madouse had to go to court fro not paying uionized workers correct pay in 2003 its was that cost that made thye sell up to index fully now ther own by sammy like sega are i odnt hate llate night studio i hate there shitty treatmeny fo thre staff as well as thar count produtive buiss model over all alot of them are major studios to afed to fight other big dogs hence why anime has stagnated Kyo ani have the monye to affoed prime time and dont go for it they hve big enough fan base to at get 3-5.00 ratings prime time bust cchose not to I don't mean to be rude but you almost have correct spellings if not for those jumbled and extra letters. Is there something wrong with your keyboard? Or do you type at lightning speed? |
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FGAU1912 said: no i doubt that if yiu take cost of linive to acount eg tokyo weekly cost of live for most is around 800-1000 usd per week most anime studos that get parise on mal pay under 300 600 usd weekly AND ANI MATORS cannot take second jobs cause most animators are contractors and not independent they tied to the stuio thay work with for say a contract of 5 shows[ for exmaple] The average Hungarian worker gets 300 dollars a month. Renting a small apartment + bills is around that much, if you rent just a room, you might get to eat too. But what do you think of what i said about your logic? What's up with the electronic devices around you? There are people in the world living from way less. And the main question. Are we supposed to hate a show because their workforce is underpaid? |
| Who the hell removed my post that was on point? I'll kindly remember you, anonymous mod :P, that the point in the OP is MAL's double standards and my original post addresses this through a movie example. Maybe I should have used an anime instead to make clear that I'm referring to the exact same thing. Anyway, I'll bring it again. FGAU, you are comparing apples to oranges. We are consumers, we only care for the result and our judgement is about the result, not the process or working methods of the specific studios. |
jal90 said: We are consumers, we only care for the result and our judgement is about the result, not the process or working methods of the specific studios. Amen to that! |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| You should make more babies FGAU1912. That's the problem of your country's industry. That and Abenomics. It's not MAL whose users make annually 0$ input into it. |
Zergneedsfood said: No...I'm not mocking you. o.O Stop being a bully Zerg. |
"Hi!" |
| So, there are studios that pay slave wages and studios that don't. I have no idea which is which though, so I cannot comment. |
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| I just want animators and artists to have a livable wage, the wages many studios are paying constitute human rights violations. |
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FGAU1912 said: Hoppy said: I just want animators and artists to have a livable wage, the wages many studios are paying constitute human rights violations. thank you DmonHiro said: So, there are studios that pay slave wages and studios that don't. I have no idea which is which though, so I cannot comment. oly toei kyo ani and bandai/sunrise pay living wage madhouse peirott pay minmum wage[ not living wage] all the rest pay iunder minimum wage But how much work do those studios outsource to in-betweeners in other asian countries that don't pay a good wage? But regardless, people here have no way of knowing which studios pay a respectable wage. You cannot and should not expect people to simply take your word for it and believe everything you say. |
| most ppl don't know how the industry even works its usually mostly speculation and bits of pieces that we do get... |
| Still waiting for your answers~ |
| KyoAni pays well, does good adaptations, hires more female staff than most animation studios and most importantly makes really good looking animation. So why do you bash on them? Kind of hypocritical if you ask me. |
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| Mal''s double apostrophe |
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