| my opinion on this is: what is already good should not change, otherwise it can have unexpected negative consequences. |
             x5 “Good times become good memories, but bad times become good lessons.” – Uncle Iroh |
| Will many people even use the conversation view? It feels like a waste of time since it seems like lots of users don't even want this. |
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Narmy said: I don't know with what kind of users this change has been discussed (if it was discussed at all), but I can imagine moderators to be the first to be informed about the upcoming "awesome change".Adnash said: With so many better or worse suggestions posted on the Suggestions board, here we have a change that basically no one asked for, to solve problems that haven't existed up until now and were artificially created just to implement changes. To implement changes for the sake of implementing new stuff, it seems. It sounds like it is the mod circlejerk that pushed for this change, even though they don't even use the forum. They should discuss changes with the active users instead. The funniest thing about moderation and "tree-like" view on the forums (not on sites like Reddit, but on classic discussion boards) is that the latter makes active moderation harder for communities with a decent amount of active users discussing in many places (so places like MAL's forum). So well, it is not only making the forum more messy for users alone, but also making the moderation harder for moderators as well. (apologies for minor mistakes in my previous post; I was in a hurry and didn't notice them until now; I've edited my post and implemented the change into the quote, I mean in the part with my post's fragment that you have quoted in your post) Kineta said: I've visited a lot of forums in my life, and I am yet to witness a situation when "tree-like" reply system would attract new users to discuss actively on a forum using such reply mechanism, instead of discouraging them to even open the forum.To encourage new members to engage with the forum, we need to make changes. I hope you'll believe me when I say we are doing our very best to keep the original behaviour of the forum on Classic view as close as what you are used to. Because we know many of you will not want to switch to Conversation view. From forums on which I was active (doesn't matter whether I was active a lot on them or not), only two used said system. One was pretty much deserted, and on another one both users and moderation team agreed to let it stay for the sake of nostalgia (it was there for many years and they simply wanted to preserve the classic feeling of their forum, even if both sides had acknowledged how better it'd have been if they had switched to a more classic reply system). Here, such a drastic change was done without even interacting with the community first. People who are actively using the forum on MyAnimeList and got used to classic, typical for majority of the forum reply system, had to deal with an unpleasant surprise announcing change they didn't even ask for. Kineta said: But like, the old view has come back temporarily, which means there will be the change we're all discussing about and it will be forced to be used as the only option, no? Just later, but still.There has never been any intention from our side to force you to change views. |
Frostwork said: Kineta said: Facepalm. Like I mentioned before - look at Steam forums. They don't have this sub-threading crap and they're doing just fine. Do you even understand that how your forum functions is NOT why you're losing existing forum users and do not attract new ones? It's your fucked-up policies and your fucked-up "mods" (and their fucked-up "favourites"/buddies) and you know it. How about "making changes" about that first? Jesus-fucking-christ.To encourage new members to engage with the forum, we need to make changes. This is so funny. >Lock any meaningful topic because it somehow "doesn't encourage meaningful discussion" even though if if it really didn't it would die on its own. >Lock anything even slightly bit controversial even if there is no flame wars between the users. >People have nothing left to discuss, forum activity drops.  Yeah, surely that's because MAL isn't like Reddit or Discord! Kineta said: Quoting multiple posts in one reply will be discouraged. For reference, I hate Reddit format precisely because you are forced to reply to someone specific and can't have a meaningful conversation within a group. If you guys wanted to implement something like that on MAL, you should've created a separate entity on this site - something for discussing anime news, posting memes, etc., while leaving forum alone. The way this goes, MAL won't have either, just a crippled community which was already shrinking due to consistent removal of features and restrictive rules enacted over the years. |
| I definitely hope this will never be implemented. It's incredibly annoying to have the same user post several times in a row. It's better the way it used to be, reply to everything you need to in a single post. Also, will you guys remove the quote button? Besides it is a complete waste of time, what is the certainty that people will receive this modification well? I doubt it very much. Before making such radical changes of this kind, changes that nobody really asked for, you should do a survey. If you want to attract new users to the forum, you don't need to change the forum and screw up the experience for those of us who grew up with this system. You should make rules less strict, allow more open discussions, not just anime. And fundamentally allow discussion in languages other than just English. Many users (myself included at the beginning of my stay here) don't dare to participate because they don't speak English, don't understand the conversations, don't want to use a translator, etc. In fact, even for me it is annoying to have to use a translator to understand each and every post, since NOT EVERYONE SPEAKS ENGLISH. Before making changes that nobody asked for, it is better to do something that people have been asking for as long as MAL has existed. Internationalise the forum. Make language tags, so that people can speak in the language they want and not concentrate the Hispanic, Portuguese, Russian, etc. communities in clubs that have fallen into inactivity. Preferably don't make any stupid changes, changes that you really don't know how people will react. And don't even think of forcing everyone to use the new system, don't try to deform the culture that has already been formed. But well, after taking a few days on the suggestion board I realised that you don't pay attention to what the users ask for. You do and undo as you please. Do surveys! You lose nothing and you get rid of the reputation of not listening to users |
ANormalUser said: . It's incredibly annoying to have the same user post several times in a row. It's better the way it used to be, reply to everything you need to in a single post. Also, will you guys remove the quote button? Besides it is a complete waste of time, what is the certainty that people will receive this modification well? I doubt it very much. Before making such radical changes of this kind, changes that nobody really asked for, you should do a survey. If you want to attract new users to the forum, you don't need to change the forum and screw up the experience for those of us who grew up with this system. You should make rules less strict, allow more open discussions, not just anime. And fundamentally allow discussion in languages other than just English. Many users (myself included at the beginning of my stay here) don't dare to participate because they don't speak English, don't understand the conversations, don't want to use a translator, etc. In fact, even for me it is annoying to have to use a translator to understand each and every post, since NOT EVERYONE SPEAKS ENGLISH. Tiosar said: >Lock any meaningful topic because it somehow "doesn't encourage meaningful discussion" even though if if it really didn't it would die on its own. >Lock anything even slightly bit controversial even if there is no flame wars between the users. >People have nothing left to discuss, forum activity drops. Yeah, surely that's because MAL isn't like Reddit or Discord! For reference, I hate Reddit format precisely because you are forced to reply to someone specific and can't have a meaningful conversation within a group. If you guys wanted to implement something like that on MAL, you should've created a separate entity on this site - something for discussing anime news, posting memes, etc., while leaving forum alone. The way this goes, MAL won't have either, just a crippled community which was already shrinking due to consistent removal of features and restrictive rules enacted over the years. Wow extremely good points and well put; I didn't even think about these things as it's difficult to initially see all the viewpoints which could come up. Thanks for sharing your thoughts like this (I'm not staff but I do value it for my own projects and groups across the internet). It's crazy to me how much solid feedback we're getting which would be so useful for improving this site, but with this and the review update feedback, it feels like its not as impactful on MyAnimeList as it should be :( |
Shishio-kunJun 3, 2023 9:05 AM
Shishio-kun said: That's the saddest thing about this discussion and discussing about any suggestion. Most of those arguments are going to be ignored anyway, and users' feedback will mean nothing more than just making the number of posts higher. It's crazy to me how much solid feedback we're getting which would be so useful for improving this site, but with this and the review update feedback, it feels like its not as impactful on MyAnimeList as it should be :( |
Shishio-kun said: Wow extremely good points and well put; I didn't even think about these things as it's difficult to initially see all the viewpoints which could come up. Thanks for sharing your thoughts like this (I'm not staff but I do value it for my own projects and groups across the internet). It's crazy to me how much solid feedback we're getting which would be so useful for improving this site, but with this and the review update feedback, it feels like its not as impactful on MyAnimeList as it should be :( Never, but never, will anything a user says have the impact it deserves. And that's just fine! You can't run one of the biggest anime forums in the west based on the opinions or tastes of a few users. But when everyone, the whole community gives their opinion, gives you suggestions, raises issues, then you should listen carefully to the opinion of the users. Something that is certainly not being done. There were no surveys, there was an announcement raising a problem that no one raised and imposing a solution that no one requested. This change in the mechanics and functioning of the forums was exactly what I mentioned above that we should not do: "Manage one of the biggest anime forums in the West based on the opinion or tastes of a few users" and that is exactly what is happening. A few users (staff members who probably don't even use the forum regularly) are trying to steer the users through fictitious problems. As a user (and ultimately a customer) I think the staff should remember this: MAL, it is a company and companies must make money by offering a good service, and to do so they must listen to their users, otherwise they will go into debacle. We, the users, with regard to the problem of decreasing activity, we have already said en masse that the problem is the highly restrictive rules and I personally add as a problem the language barrier of many users. I understand that it's not easy to keep everyone happy, I know. If you do one thing, one group will criticise you. If you do something else, the other group will criticise you. But on matters where there is broad majority agreement, I think the best thing to do (both ethically and corporately) is to listen to that majority. I just hope that the MAL staff realises what I am saying and comes to their senses with this decision. Although I don't really have high hopes, probably they will go ahead with the project, I think the best thing in this case is to make a poll where no staff vote, a poll exclusively for the users and publish this poll on the main page because I am completely sure that many users read this and out of laziness or ignorance didn't give an opinion in this thread. @Kineta Please consider this |
| 260 replies and no one came with sane arguments for this shit yet this will be implemented in short time |
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| Yeah, but why? I guess the devs are Redditors. I appreciated MAL as a one of the few last strongholds of old school forums, but considering how broken "classic" view is, that's dead now. RIP. |
on BamsiByrek said: That sounds like an exciting new feature for the forum! The Conversation View seems like a great addition that will enhance the user experience and make it easier for members to engage in multiple conversations within a single forum topic. By collapsing all the replies into one post, it streamlines the discussion and allows users to focus on the posts they are interested in while minimizing distractions from other replies. The potential future implementation of prioritizing posts from friends is also a valuable addition that will help users stay connected with the people they care about most. Offering the beta testing exclusively to MAL Supporters is a fantastic way to reward their support and engagement. It provides an opportunity for them to try out the new feature before it becomes available to the wider user base and allows them to provide valuable feedback to improve its functionality and iron out any issues. Sending a private message on MAL with a link for reporting issues during the testing phase is a convenient and efficient method of collecting feedback. It ensures that testers can easily communicate their findings and helps the development team address any concerns or bugs that may arise. Overall, it sounds like an excellent initiative, and I'm sure MAL Supporters will be thrilled to have the opportunity to participate in the beta testing of the Conversation View feature. I can't take you seriously. You are a SPAM account, you have no anime or manga on your list, you have no interaction whatsoever on MAL. It's very curious that this opinion is the only thing you did with your account since creation. For some very valid reason I think it's the secondary account of some staff member trying to defend this change that nobody wants.  BatoKusanagi said: Yeah, but why? I guess the devs are Redditors. I appreciated MAL as a one of the few last strongholds of old school forums, but considering how broken "classic" view is, that's dead now. RIP. Same! The reddit format is horrible. Maybe I'm influenced by my love for old forums and being a frequent user of 4chan. @Kineta @Ardanaz Mods, staff, please, I know you want to do and undo as you please, but give us arguments why you want to make a change that NO ONE ASKED FOR? On the other hand respond to the users! Many of us have posted very interesting and valid arguments, respond to them, encourage debate. Also make a poll, so you can see that the majority does not agree. But of course, you NEVER listen to your customers. I will repeat what I said in a previous post. MAL is a company and if companies want to survive in the market they must listen to their customers and back down from projects that do not meet market needs. If they don't take that into account, they will go very badly. And by the way, the MAL Supporters themselves have been complaining about the change, listen to the community. |
ANormalUserJun 5, 2023 7:26 AM
ANormalUser said: We can make a poll for this. I wouldn't know which section to make it in though. Maybe support or suggestions?BamsiByrek said: That sounds like an exciting new feature for the forum! The Conversation View seems like a great addition that will enhance the user experience and make it easier for members to engage in multiple conversations within a single forum topic. By collapsing all the replies into one post, it streamlines the discussion and allows users to focus on the posts they are interested in while minimizing distractions from other replies. The potential future implementation of prioritizing posts from friends is also a valuable addition that will help users stay connected with the people they care about most. Offering the beta testing exclusively to MAL Supporters is a fantastic way to reward their support and engagement. It provides an opportunity for them to try out the new feature before it becomes available to the wider user base and allows them to provide valuable feedback to improve its functionality and iron out any issues. Sending a private message on MAL with a link for reporting issues during the testing phase is a convenient and efficient method of collecting feedback. It ensures that testers can easily communicate their findings and helps the development team address any concerns or bugs that may arise. Overall, it sounds like an excellent initiative, and I'm sure MAL Supporters will be thrilled to have the opportunity to participate in the beta testing of the Conversation View feature. I can't take you seriously. You are a SPAM account, you have no anime or manga on your list, you have no interaction whatsoever on MAL. It's very curious that this opinion is the only thing you did with your account since creation. For some very valid reason I think it's the secondary account of some staff member trying to defend this change that nobody wants. BatoKusanagi said: Yeah, but why? I guess the devs are Redditors. I appreciated MAL as a one of the few last strongholds of old school forums, but considering how broken "classic" view is, that's dead now. RIP. Same! The reddit format is horrible. Maybe I'm influenced by my love for old forums and being a frequent user of 4chan. @Kineta @Ardanaz Mods, staff, please, I know you want to do and undo as you please, but give us arguments why you want to make a change that NO ONE ASKED FOR? On the other hand respond to the users! Many of us have posted very interesting and valid arguments, respond to them, encourage debate. Also make a poll, so you can see that the majority does not agree. But of course, you NEVER listen to your customers. I will repeat what I said in a previous post. MAL is a company and if companies want to survive in the market they must listen to their customers and back down from projects that do not meet market needs. If they don't take that into account, they will go very badly. And by the way, the MAL Supporters themselves have been complaining about the change, listen to the community. Edit: here's the poll |
MinakoBestGirlJun 5, 2023 9:49 AM
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| What's with all these empty accounts all of a sudden?.. Anyway, it's rather ironic that mods lock/remove topics all the time because they supposedly "don't encourage meaningful discussion" and yet here they are - absolutely unwilling to participate in a very meaningful discussion that requires their attention. Probably shouldn't be that surprising, though, since I never see them on forum in the first place. |
Tiosar said: What's with all these empty accounts all of a sudden?.. Anyway, it's rather ironic that mods lock/remove topics all the time because they supposedly "don't encourage meaningful discussion" and yet here they are - absolutely unwilling to participate in a very meaningful discussion that requires their attention. Probably shouldn't be that surprising, though, since I never see them on forum in the first place. I'm pretty sure they're either trolls or alternate accounts of someone (which IS against the rules on here.) Not saying it, but this does look suspicious. Make sure to report them. |
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MinakoBestGirl said: Tiosar said: What's with all these empty accounts all of a sudden?.. Anyway, it's rather ironic that mods lock/remove topics all the time because they supposedly "don't encourage meaningful discussion" and yet here they are - absolutely unwilling to participate in a very meaningful discussion that requires their attention. Probably shouldn't be that surprising, though, since I never see them on forum in the first place. I'm pretty sure they're either trolls or alternate accounts of someone (which IS against the rules on here.) Not saying it, but this does look suspicious. Make sure to report them. It's pretty clear to me, they are accounts created by the admins and staff to simulate support for the new changes that are coming. There would be no other reason. What I fear is that these accounts are being used for poll fraud. What motive would a troll have for doing this? It's not funny, and considering that almost the only people who support this are the staff.... As the Spanish saying goes: Blanco y en botella... |
| Ok, the poll has been up for over 24 hours now and it already has over 40 votes against implementing the conversation mode to 3 that are for it. |
MinakoBestGirlJun 6, 2023 8:43 AM
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| Not actually sure its a beta test issue but I just quoted a poster and it changed comment in reply with a different word. Which I only noticed as it spelt reply wrong and red underlined.. |
 To have you, Id give a billion lives A-Chan best girl |
| also this post is very funny, everything before I posted seems to of happen on May 31st within a two hour period, but here I am posting shit :P somethings not quite right and op post was way before Edit, now I have reloaded the thread as well I have an increased more post view? Not sure if its intended or not but you should think very carefully if you going down the route of curating posts, because who decides what we view or not? |
Roch2001Jun 6, 2023 3:40 PM
To have you, Id give a billion lives A-Chan best girl |
dierubikdie said: A view source button sounds like it could be a nice solution to see BBCode stylization for both Classic and Conversation views. Just for a bit of information, the main reason that the Highlight Quote option doesn't copy the BBCode is because it becomes difficult to parse the BBCode when you highlight halfway through the code (e.g. partway through a full sentence that is bolded).At the very least, some sites have a "view source" feature on their forums where you can see exactly what formatting/tags/code/etc someone used |
SheyCroix said: Yes, for now. The 10K responses is based on some performance issues from long ago and it's better to keep it unless we find a reason to change it.Tho that does raise the question, will the posts per thread limit stay the same? SheyCroix said: Barely anyone wanted to use the Modern List when it was first released, too. It takes time to get used to very different user interfaces, it's understandable. Having Modern List as the default list for new users helped tip the balance over. There are still quite a few members who have been on MAL for >7 years who are using the Classic design.But at least the Modern List was an actually helpful and good change. Not so detrimentally perceived 😔 (ps, do that many people still use classic?) |
Valerio_Lyndon said: dierubikdie suggested a view source option, and I think this would help retain the functionality of teaching new users to learn BBCode tricks. For smoother conversation, we will add a quote of the post being replied to in site code, as if the post was quoted in BBCode. I'm afraid that archival of image links is a bit too niche, though. And it's something we'd like to change in the near future too, since most users become confused at needing to upload their image elsewhere instead of just pasting it into the reply box :')That said, I think removing BBCode quote functionality entirely is a significant loss. Quoting a post's BBCode directly allows for archival of threads via original image links, it allows new users to learn BB tricks, and it is helpful in just having a smooth conversation. |
StarfireDragon said: Sorting the topic by Newest post first (instead of Oldest post first) in Conversation view and posting a new reply to the topic will be the same as using Classic view. I took a screenshot as an example:I guess most forum games are going to be fucked up now I don't think there will be an issue with Forum Games as long as members participating in the thread know to sort by new reply first and only use the big blue new reply button to post. Instructions can be given in the first post to help new players, like they are now. |
Say-My-Name said: The moderator team has been collectively against upvotes/downvotes for many years now. It is a topic that comes up in discussion every now and again. We're not considering this, so please don't worry about it. Conversation view will give us more flexibility in how to sort and order posts, even without adding voting.I swear I'll leave the forums if upvotes/downvotes show up. |
thinkpad said: In hindsight, I agree with you. We want to offer MAL Supporters the ability to beta test new features wherever possible, and this development was just much easier to implement as a MAL Supporter beta test compared to other features. For example, a feature like Interest Stacks would be rather difficult to show only to a small set of members first.I think this is one of those features that is not meaningful to give to paid members first |
Kineta said: thinkpad said: In hindsight, I agree with you. We want to offer MAL Supporters the ability to beta test new features wherever possible, and this development was just much easier to implement as a MAL Supporter beta test compared to other features. For example, a feature like Interest Stacks would be rather difficult to show only to a small set of members first.I think this is one of those features that is not meaningful to give to paid members first Im totally just wondering what system your putting in place to decide what I want to see, instead of just seeing it as posted? Whats the rationale behind it |
To have you, Id give a billion lives A-Chan best girl |
Shishio-kun said: It will be very confusing to users who are only using view A to suddenly be redirected to view B based on who created the thread. I use the terms view A and view B instead of Classic/Conversation because I can expect that the reverse of your request would also be true: where a topic opener would want posters to view the thread in Conversation view instead of Classic.Can we please have it where the opening poster can 100% opt the thread out of conversation mode, and opting out also retains the traditional quote button? The forum is a public space, unlike the list. So how the posts are viewed and sorted should be decided by the viewer, not the topic creator. I don't think there will be an issue with Forum Games as long as members participating in the thread know to sort by new replies first and only use the big blue new reply button to post. Instructions can be given in the first post, like they are now. It may be a bit awkward during transition and I have no doubt there are going to be growing pains. But we'll find and implement solutions where possible. |
this is the worst update ever. wouldn't even let me reply unless I left post closed site and loaded it again |
To have you, Id give a billion lives A-Chan best girl |
Kineta said: StarfireDragon said: Sorting the topic by Newest post first (instead of Oldest post first) in Conversation view and posting a new reply to the topic will be the same as using Classic view. I took a screenshot as an example:I guess most forum games are going to be fucked up now I don't think there will be an issue with Forum Games as long as members participating in the thread know to sort by new reply first and only use the big blue new reply button to post. Instructions can be given in the first post to help new players, like they are now. Well sure, but that's only if they have that mode selected. I've already seen it happen, where games get messed up. That was what prompted me to respond here in the first place. People think they are replying to one person (likely through the reply function) where other people see a completely different thing. It's not a guarantee that someone will see a disclaimer, and on existing games, there won't even be one. So it's very likely that games will continue to get clashing results. And in of itself, that is a solution to a made up problem, in a sense. I think that putting the onus on the people in the community to specify exactly what mode they should be looking at things, just sounds like passing off a design flaw. It really takes away the simplicity of the forum games in general. |
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
StarfireDragon said: I really dont think many people will be using conversation view anyways, so maybe the forum games wont be that messed up.Kineta said: Sorting the topic by Newest post first (instead of Oldest post first) in Conversation view and posting a new reply to the topic will be the same as using Classic view. I took a screenshot as an example: I don't think there will be an issue with Forum Games as long as members participating in the thread know to sort by new reply first and only use the big blue new reply button to post. Instructions can be given in the first post to help new players, like they are now. Well sure, but that's only if they have that mode selected. I've already seen it happen, where games get messed up. That was what prompted me to respond here in the first place. People think they are replying to one person (likely through the reply function) where other people see a completely different thing. It's not a guarantee that someone will see a disclaimer, and on existing games, there won't even be one. So it's very likely that games will continue to get clashing results. And in of itself, that is a solution to a made up problem, in a sense. I think that putting the onus on the people in the community to specify exactly what mode they should be looking at things, just sounds like passing off a design flaw. It really takes away the simplicity of the forum games in general. |
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| @Kineta Can we at least get these for classic mode? 1) a way to quickly view from a post, all the posts they replied to. For example let us say I point to Traed's post with my cursor, there should be a way in classic to see all the posts he replied to so I can know what the conversation is (as we had before with the quotes) 2) that View Source button (as we had before with the quote buutton) 3) a more convenient way to Quote Reply (so its one click like before with the quote button). Maybe that's the planned update for Reply later? I hope it's a convenient one button option as legacy quote is. Highlighting text for the quote for the brief time we had the reply button sucked. This would not make it so Classic mode is not so inconvenient/difficult to communicate in anymore. Also: 4) see signature when pointing to someone's post in Conversation Mode. It's lame and discouraging they are hidden behind pointing to their userpic*. *At least it was hidden behind userpic at first, last I checked, that wasn't even working. |
Shishio-kunJun 7, 2023 2:01 PM
Kineta said: Sounds like a good argument to keep the legacy quote feature as it is, and add the new reply feature alongside it. Could make two simple buttons: "Reply" and "Reply with Quote".the main reason that the Highlight Quote option doesn't copy the BBCode is because it becomes difficult to parse the BBCode when you highlight halfway through the code (e.g. partway through a full sentence that is bolded). The new "Reply" button would do exactly as it did when you first introduced it back on Jun 1: just tag the user and nest itself under the replied-to post. The "Reply with Quote" button would do the exact same thing, but instead of a direct tag it would automatically populate a quoted version of the post's BBCode in the edit box, like it always has (and also nest itself under the replied-to post, for conversation view purposes). |
dierubikdieJun 6, 2023 8:44 PM
  "An earnest failure has meaning." "Nothing is definite in this world. But it's okay. Some things within me are definite." |
Shishio-kun said: 4) see signature when pointing to someone's post in Conversation Mode. It's lame and discouraging they are hidden behind pointing to their userpic*. *At least it was hidden behind userpic at first, last I checked, that wasn't even working. If you mean the signature placement in the profile card pop-up, it's mentioned in the FAQ in the first post: Where is my forum signature? Conversation view offers a more compact design than Classic view, so signatures will be hidden into cards which appear when you hover over the username or avatar of the poster. This will fill the light blue space that you see on the forum card now. Think of the Discord profile cards you see, with a cover photo and some custom text area. The future tense in the answer indicates that the signature in the profile card is planned and not currently released yet. |
dierubikdie said: Kineta said: Sounds like a good argument to keep the legacy quote feature as it is, and add the new reply feature alongside it. Could make two simple buttons: "Reply" and "Reply with Quote".the main reason that the Highlight Quote option doesn't copy the BBCode is because it becomes difficult to parse the BBCode when you highlight halfway through the code (e.g. partway through a full sentence that is bolded). The new "Reply" button would do exactly as it did when you first introduced it back on Jun 1: just tag the user and nest itself under the replied-to post. The "Reply with Quote" button would do the exact same thing, but instead of a direct tag it would automatically populate a quoted version of the post's BBCode in the edit box, like it always has (and also nest itself under the replied-to post, for conversation view purposes). Nobody will use the reply with quote button in reddit view because they won't see the quote anyway. Quoting should be the only option or it will fuck up the integrity of classic view. The only post you should be able to reply without quoting is the original post. tingy said: Where is my forum signature? Conversation view offers a more compact design than Classic view, so signatures will be hidden into cards which appear when you hover over the username or avatar of the poster. This will fill the light blue space that you see on the forum card now. Think of the Discord profile cards you see, with a cover photo and some custom text area. The future tense in the answer indicates that the signature in the profile card is planned and not currently released yet. Why would anybody use a worse version of Reddit and Discord if they could just use Reddit and Discord? You are just destroying what you already had with this. |
ateksJun 7, 2023 12:37 AM
ateks said: dierubikdie said: Sounds like a good argument to keep the legacy quote feature as it is, and add the new reply feature alongside it. Could make two simple buttons: "Reply" and "Reply with Quote". The new "Reply" button would do exactly as it did when you first introduced it back on Jun 1: just tag the user and nest itself under the replied-to post. The "Reply with Quote" button would do the exact same thing, but instead of a direct tag it would automatically populate a quoted version of the post's BBCode in the edit box, like it always has (and also nest itself under the replied-to post, for conversation view purposes). Nobody will use the reply with quote button in reddit view because they won't see the quote anyway. Quoting should be the only option or it will fuck up the integrity of classic view. The only post you should be able to reply without quoting is the original post. tingy said: Where is my forum signature? Conversation view offers a more compact design than Classic view, so signatures will be hidden into cards which appear when you hover over the username or avatar of the poster. This will fill the light blue space that you see on the forum card now. Think of the Discord profile cards you see, with a cover photo and some custom text area. The future tense in the answer indicates that the signature in the profile card is planned and not currently released yet. Why would anybody use a worse version of Reddit and Discord if they could just use Reddit and Discord? You are just destroying what you already had with this. Not to mention they even already have a reddit up (unsure if it's fanmade or official) as well as a discord. |
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ateks said: Why would anybody use a worse version of Reddit and Discord if they could just use Reddit and Discord? You are just destroying what you already had with this. MinakoBestGirl said: Not to mention they even already have a reddit up (unsure if it's fanmade or official) as well as a discord. These two quotes could be easily treated as the best reasons on why this new update is not necessary. Definitive majority of users use this forum, because they find the classic forum format as better for them to discuss. They have alternatives, like Reddit or Discord, but instead are active here. Why? Simply because of the form. Tryharding to make a classic forum into Reddit- or Discord-like discussion center won't attract new users, but may successfully drive away actually active members of the community. The reason for the former group is simple - why would anyone fond of tree-like reply system use weird looking copy of Reddit, when Reddit exists and is extremely active? People would just move to better and more crowded place, instead of looking at sites offering similar, but worse experience. |
| @Tingy @Kineta I know that, but the problem is it's hard to see the sig in convo since you can only access it by pointing to a userpic/name. Most people won't think to do that or forget they are buried there and then less ppl see the cool sigs ppl made. Tingy I'm suggesting to update it so you an see the signature when we point to the user's post. This would make it so the sigs aren't so hidden and more ppl see them. What's wrong with seeing the signature when you point to a post in conversation mode at all- why bury under pointing to the userpic/name? Not accusing you but I feel like there's an opposition to showing signatures a little more and also an opposition to allowing a quote button to exist. To your userbase, it's very odd. Are the rule-breaking signatures and long quote chains that bad? There's other options that don't destroy the classic forum experience- like in my suggestions, give the user a quick way to see all the posts replied to in the conversation/quote chain. Otherwise, you need to go to conversation mode. Or reduce quote chains to ONE quote, as on the Overwatch forum:  Furthermore they have a way to view replies right from the post. It works really well. They also have preview mode alongside source mode for posts. Anyhow back to Myanimelist, I'm guessing the reason to cut down for sigs on sigs is to reduce clutter in conversation view. But the conversation mode is already extremely cluttered compared to forum: https://i.imgur.com/WnsASuh.png https://imgur.com/DVJD3yl.jpg https://imgur.com/El4MsDp.jpg And that was a like, a 100 posts ago. It's worse now! So, let us keep the quote button in classic (and as an added bonus allow for viewing of signatures when pointing to a post in convo mode). Everybody wins this way. But I already know these requests will be denied since there's seems to be opposition to these features. You've gotten all this overwhelmingly negative feedback, I hope there's at least some preservation of the quote button at this rate lol - hopefully a View Source button and "View Post this post is replying to" button. Although it does sound like some functionality is going to be added next update so we'll have to wait and see exactly how it plays out.. |
Shishio-kunJun 7, 2023 1:57 PM
dierubikdie said: Kineta said: the main reason that the Highlight Quote option doesn't copy the BBCode is because it becomes difficult to parse the BBCode when you highlight halfway through the code (e.g. partway through a full sentence that is bolded). Sounds like a good argument to keep the legacy quote feature as it is, and add the new reply feature alongside it. Could make two simple buttons: "Reply" and "Reply with Quote". The new "Reply" button would do exactly as it did when you first introduced it back on Jun 1: just tag the user and nest itself under the replied-to post. The "Reply with Quote" button would do the exact same thing, but instead of a direct tag it would automatically populate a quoted version of the post's BBCode in the edit box, like it always has (and also nest itself under the replied-to post, for conversation view purposes). Exactly, another well-constructed reply. But I'm thinking that someone is determined to get rid of the quote button. This is just my speculation but it really seems that way 😅 |
Shishio-kun said: dierubikdie said: Sounds like a good argument to keep the legacy quote feature as it is, and add the new reply feature alongside it. Could make two simple buttons: "Reply" and "Reply with Quote". The new "Reply" button would do exactly as it did when you first introduced it back on Jun 1: just tag the user and nest itself under the replied-to post. The "Reply with Quote" button would do the exact same thing, but instead of a direct tag it would automatically populate a quoted version of the post's BBCode in the edit box, like it always has (and also nest itself under the replied-to post, for conversation view purposes). Exactly, another well-constructed reply. But I'm thinking that someone is determined to get rid of the quote button. This is just my speculation but it really seems that way 😅 According to @Kineta quotes are supposed to do this: When you click quote now, you see the text and BBcode in the reply box and then you start typing after it, right? Instead of seeing the text in your reply box, it would just be added automatically after you hit "Submit". Does that make more sense? |
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MinakoBestGirl said: Shishio-kun said: Exactly, another well-constructed reply. But I'm thinking that someone is determined to get rid of the quote button. This is just my speculation but it really seems that way 😅 According to @Kineta quotes are supposed to do this: When you click quote now, you see the text and BBcode in the reply box and then you start typing after it, right? Instead of seeing the text in your reply box, it would just be added automatically after you hit "Submit". Does that make more sense? I think you're referring to this post: Kineta said: dierubikdie suggested a view source option, and I think this would help retain the functionality of teaching new users to learn BBCode tricks. For smoother conversation, we will add a quote of the post being replied to in site code, as if the post was quoted in BBCode. I'm afraid that archival of image links is a bit too niche, though. And it's something we'd like to change in the near future too, since most users become confused at needing to upload their image elsewhere instead of just pasting it into the reply box :') The fact it doesn't allow for archiving image links (so its safe to assume its not sourcing the BBcode) and that they mentioned a separate "view source" option - Kineta said: A view source button sounds like it could be a nice solution to see BBCode stylization for both Classic and Conversation views. It makes me think that their planned change won't be a satisfactory replacement of the old quote button and that it will be buggy or unreliable like so many other MAL updates lol. There's already so many problems with BBcode and the new editor, and the legacy quote was still a reliable part of it since it is basically a view source. So, they should just keep legacy quote alongside the new reply button as dierubikdie suggested. Also what we're seeing now is not the final change. It is a temporary reversion: Kineta said: Please understand that this is a temporary reversion. When we have solved the issue of displaying which post was replied to in Classic view, the quote button will be restored to the reply button, and the reply box will appear below the post again. Quoting multiple posts in one reply will be discouraged. Quote chains of entire posts will not be automatically created anymore. Before, they had a really shitty Reply button for a couple days, although later it sounds like it's going to be improved when they bring it back. And as you can see from that post they really don't like the legacy quote, which is why I think it is being removed no matter what, even though it had so many uses.. it would be so convenient to just keep alongside the Reply! But we have to wait and see what functionality will be retained in the next update. I'm hoping the final view in classic will look something like Kineta's posts, where the reply will quote the post being replied to and allow a satisfactory BBcode view. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2096391&msgid=69332533&show=250#msg69332533 |
Shishio-kunJun 7, 2023 2:06 PM
Shishio-kun said: the problem is it's hard to see the sig in convo since you can only access it by pointing to a userpic/name. Most people won't think to do that or forget they are buried there and then less ppl see the cool sigs ppl made. Tingy I'm suggesting to update it so you an see the signature when we point to the user's post. This would make it so the sigs aren't so hidden and more ppl see them. Not to mention if someone wants a more compact forum experience without signatures, they already have a toggle for that in settings. No need to hide it for everyone.  |
Valerio_Lyndon said: Shishio-kun said: the problem is it's hard to see the sig in convo since you can only access it by pointing to a userpic/name. Most people won't think to do that or forget they are buried there and then less ppl see the cool sigs ppl made. Tingy I'm suggesting to update it so you an see the signature when we point to the user's post. This would make it so the sigs aren't so hidden and more ppl see them. Not to mention if someone wants a more compact forum experience without signatures, they already have a toggle for that in settings. No need to hide it for everyone. Wow I totally forgot about this lol. Come to think of it, its silly how a "signatures off/on" or "dark mode on/off" mode isn't a button or within a dropdown menu near the top of the page or something. Would be massively convenient, especially considering so many users ask how to turn dark on/off. If a few are asking it means many other people have that problem. And I wonder if the Wall of Text mode would actually be easier to navigate with signatures since it would separate posts visually. It could definitely use some color changes to separate posts same as the forum posts having the blue header and certain parts shaded differently. I'm guessing later they will update the colors of conversation mode.. right?  |
Shishio-kunJun 7, 2023 3:57 PM
| New conversation mode bug dropped https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2098381 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2098261 Update Seems fixed :D |
Shishio-kunJun 8, 2023 1:39 PM
| I was told I should post this problem I had here, but it looks like I was beaten to in: Shishio-kun said: New conversation mode bug dropped https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2098381 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2098261 |
| Ironic how mods implemented so many restrictive, anti-discussion rules in order to fight toxicity on forum only to bring toxic "conversation" mode later on. |
| Looks good! Thanks for the hard work. ^^ |
| As I look through the controversies of each and every change mods are doing that the community isn't asking for, MAL is slowly turning from a republic to a democratic movement. Every change getting shittier than the last just so to make up the fact that MAL is "out of touch" with the rest of the world. Well, simplicity is the best poison, so instead of hearing everyone's opinions and making decisions based on that, mods are doing in our favour for things that destroy the integrity of the website more. Like hello, MAL is MAL, anything that ain't bad, please don't spoil it, and this is what we get. Thanks MAL, your site will be barely usuable until the point of death. |
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