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Jan 29, 2020 7:58 AM
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Aug 2018
6
HaXXspetten said:
Uhm... what? That's it?

I really don't get it. Why did he even have to shoot the president to begin with, but more importantly that was such an anticlimatic ending anyway. So much plot potential that they never did anything with and it all feels like it amounted to nothing in the end

I still liked the show a lot for most of its airing but... yeah that wasn't a great ending >_>


Think he shot him so it would be called a murder and not a suicide. The life of the president carried so much weight for what he said to that girl committing suicide.
Jan 29, 2020 8:04 AM
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Aug 2018
6
So what happened in the end? Did Zen shot himself (seems most probable to me since Magase looked so confident) or did he do that 'shoot at the background wall' thingie, a cliche to animes.
I really think the ending would have been better if only Zen had smiled and killed Magase. The message would have been that we're all evil because we're all human. Emotions leads to Evil, love leads to evil. Zen, the embodiment of Good couldn't help but succumb to evil himself.

Also, what does Magase say to her victims? What did she say to the president? Is that a superpower? Is it a greater philosophy, based on a bigger picture that the Thinker himself couldn't see, or is it just a hack?
Is Itsuka an accomplice or a puppet of Magase? Oh God! I need another damn season. This was a mess.
Jan 29, 2020 8:18 AM

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Dec 2016
1428
The ending was very disappointing.
Jan 29, 2020 9:02 AM
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Apr 2015
397
Mayuka said:
Sylverthas said:

I've only been on this forum a couple of weeks and from what I've seen the first assumption always seems to be that people are too stupid to "get it".
But the thing is, this anime wasn't deep. It was trying hard to be deep but most people here have watched stuff like Monster which was 10x more substance and had better characters.



First half of babylon still good
This truth don't change
Also Zen is good main charecter
Babylon was tried to be deep just in last arc
But firs two arcs still good
Jan 29, 2020 9:07 AM
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Jan 2020
1
I think the point of shooting the president was to show that he did not commit suicide and got murdered. He was on the verge of suicide so zen shot him. This conveys a message regarding the law. As for magase, its the same thing. Zen shot president so he considered himself evil and ended himself. I hope this isn't just me.
Jan 29, 2020 9:10 AM

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Jul 2012
48259
TGAvi said:
Mayuka said:
But the thing is, this anime wasn't deep. It was trying hard to be deep but most people here have watched stuff like Monster which was 10x more substance and had better characters.



First half of babylon still good
This truth don't change
Also Zen is good main charecter
Babylon was tried to be deep just in last arc
But firs two arcs still good
First half was great, it was not a deep anime in the first place. So I agree with you.
Jan 29, 2020 9:25 AM
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Jun 2017
5391
Wow, this is probably the only time where killing a man trying to commit suicide makes sense. If Zen hadn't killed Alex, Alex would jump and the world would along with him. I don't think Zen spared Magase, I think one of those pesky CIA snipers got him before he could pull the trigger. They might blame it on suicide law supporters and quash the movement. So in a strange way good probably wins but evil doesn't give up as we see Magase visit Zen's son. At least that's my theory.
Wonder if there'll be a new season?
Radu_Bey0Jan 29, 2020 9:31 AM
Jan 29, 2020 11:34 AM

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Aug 2009
84
I'm more curious about the post credits scene with Magase being with Zen's son, than the actual ending. I wonder if the implication is she's going after Zen's family in order to kill them and therefore drive Zen further into despair. We'll probably never know though.
Jan 29, 2020 11:38 AM

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Jul 2019
570
I honestly liked the ending, actually funny seeing some people here still asking why did Zen shoot the President and Magase lol. If you pay attention to the dialogues you'd understand and think about what you are watching just a little you would understand. This for a finale were done very well. It was an open ending, most likely outcome is that suicide law is not forced (this is due to Zen's decision to shoot the president).

The conclusion of the most picked up question of the show (good & evil) were done psychologically in this episode. And that kind of psychological aspect is what the show has been missing since the first half (not even exactly all the 6 episodes though). Most of the 2nd half tried to be too philosophical, which takes the focus and left behind the mystery about this woman called Magase Ai. I'm quite mixed about this, it felt like it was all Magase's plan, but in the other hand it took the mystery on who/what is Magase Ai. Why did she do all that? how did she affect people with her words? its never explained. Maybe if the directing and pacing is better we wouldn't care about those, instead we could just focus on what the show is trying to entertain us with; the philosophy and the thriller. Overall its a good show but its a mess. 7 at best if you're not too harsh.
Jan 29, 2020 1:16 PM
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Jan 2013
49
Liked the first half a lot and still enjoyed the second half. I wish there was more to the scene between Zen and Magase at the end, because I liked it up until that point. Magase's effect on people made the anime interesting but as a character she lacked substance. No good reason to do what she did, wasn't proclaimed mentally ill, wasn't evil for the fun of it, etc. Even the way she spoke to Zen in the beginning was foreshadowing for how the second half of the anime would end up, attempting to be deep and philosophical but falling short in convincing you. Somebody in the posts mention it being bad like Kado, but I enjoyed that just the same, and at least it's ending was more clever.
Jan 29, 2020 1:24 PM
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Mar 2018
9
I was really puzzled as to why Zen's son was so cheerful at the end, even though his dad is at least in jail, and very likely dead.

If you want to make the bad ending worse, it's easy to imagine:

>Ai finally makes Zen shoot himself in the ending
>Starts off a more vigorous debate about the suicide law, with people saying things like "if this man had been legally allowed to kill himself before, he wouldn't have killed the President in this way"
>Suicide law is enacted after all
>Zen's son is happy in the end because the suicide his dad chose is now seen as an acceptable, even positive, thing


Which doesn't really make sense logically, but that just makes it fit Babylon better.
Jan 29, 2020 2:29 PM

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May 2011
419
Ok.I didn't expect things to end like this.Zen actually killed the U.S president and Ai is still alive somehow and we don't know what happened to the suicide law afterwards.This show was a really enjoyable watch,but I feel like it needed another episode to show the aftermath.
''I was dead serious''


Jan 29, 2020 3:40 PM

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Sep 2011
813
It's sad that most people rate this show just based on how they saw the ending. Almost everything was explaining, like 90% of everything and the rest is up to the viewer to think about. Some people simply just seem to need to have everything to be shoven down their throat. I agree that the second half never reached the heights of the first one. The more phylosophical way the author went wasn't what most people wanted and it certainly was done in a mediocre way as well. But judging something just because of the way it ended and not taking other aspects like the first half, direction and everything mentioned above into account is just some kindergarten level of behaviour.
Jan 29, 2020 6:45 PM
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Jul 2019
1
Really, what is the meaning of this anime? I don't get it.
Jan 29, 2020 7:16 PM
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Jan 2016
241
That's probably one of the most anticlimactic endings I've ever seen in a show before......Seemed like the story was more extensive than this but they didn't have the time or resources to flush it all out and just pulled out something at least reminiscent of a climax and finale.....
Jan 29, 2020 7:24 PM
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Jan 2016
241
Sury said:
It's sad that most people rate this show just based on how they saw the ending. Almost everything was explaining, like 90% of everything and the rest is up to the viewer to think about. Some people simply just seem to need to have everything to be shoven down their throat. I agree that the second half never reached the heights of the first one. The more phylosophical way the author went wasn't what most people wanted and it certainly was done in a mediocre way as well. But judging something just because of the way it ended and not taking other aspects like the first half, direction and everything mentioned above into account is just some kindergarten level of behaviour.


The entire story is literally "90%" loose ends. I'm going to give the show a good score because I think the themes and story as a whole were still solid, but there was not one iota of a resolution to this show. We don't even know entirely what Magase was or why she was doing what she was doing. She is entirely surmised through biblical references that may or may not have anything to do with her actual character. I think it's pretty obvious why Zen shot the president, but the central conflict of Zen and Magase was not in anyway resolved by that final standoff. Not to mention I don't see how the good and evil is based on continuing and ending philosophy built up in the last couple episodes ties into the plot at all. Based on what Wood deducted then suicide would be "bad" since it's not continuing.....but I really don't want to believe that the show spent its entire runtime drawing this grey area with the suicide law only to be like "it's bad." Either that is what the good and evil predicament is saying, or there is something else to it that I'm not seeing. I really hope it's the latter or else I'm just going to be disappointed.
Jan 29, 2020 8:32 PM

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May 2019
70
Great show, especially the ending, it really wanted this kind of ending because the show didn't give a clear opinion on suicide. So happy to see things wrap up, don't regret a single minute.




Jan 29, 2020 9:14 PM

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Aug 2014
37
Wtf the ending... What source of power does nagase have.. What kind of words she said to all his victims.... For thr ending i think Zen killed it self for nothing....does it stop the suicide law and Nagase at post credit with Zen child..
Jan 29, 2020 9:33 PM
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Jan 2017
9
One thing that needs to be concern from this whole mess show is that

It doesnt matter whether the suicide law is bad or good..like hell i care about that..its your own matter with your own God

What most important thing is "DRIVING PEOPLE TO COMMIT SUICIDE BY HYPNOTIZE IS A CRIME"

Why dont they just concern about this one important fact?!!! Gosh this is making me mad
HananeechanJan 29, 2020 9:43 PM
Jan 29, 2020 11:52 PM

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Nov 2011
4025
Yes, no conclusion but thought the show was excellent since their break. If you ask me, the fact that everyone is freaking out about the ending being anti-climatic and not giving a definite answer seems in line with the whole show, there is no definite answer, we're all right and wrong at the same time. 8.
Zee530Jan 29, 2020 11:56 PM

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Jan 30, 2020 2:51 AM
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Jun 2016
17
I can imagine that seizaki was shot by a sniper or something on the scene & is still alive in this ending. The president's staff & CIA/FBI knows how dangerous is magase based on their own veteran members suddenly went suicide mode in groups (LOL). Thus, knows that seizaki actions are kinda justified. He might just be laying low or recruited by another special agency to hunt down magase. mybe.
Jan 30, 2020 5:53 AM
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Jul 2018
561541
An unsatisfying ending. Kind of disappointing actually but over all it was a good series
Jan 30, 2020 6:53 AM
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Nov 2019
35
UltiMa_Despair said:
What a disappointment. The main plot was left unresolved, what happened to the suicide law after Zen killed Alex? Did Zen killed himself or just wasn't able to kill Magase because he is good?
post ed scene showed magase alive , meaning that at the "Bang" scene Zen killed himself
Jan 30, 2020 10:57 AM

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Oct 2018
173
What the hell did i just watch ??? all this time and i get this bull shit ending.what happened to the main plot of this show?? the main plot is THE SUICIDE LAW and what happened to that after Zen killed USP ???? how Magase escaped USA ?? what happened to Zen after that fiasco ??? Magase is too OP as a villain character she's like Sosuke Aizen from Bleach.There are too many things left unexplained.This show needs at least an OVA to explain things out.
Jan 30, 2020 11:14 AM
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Aug 2018
1
The anime says that good is to "continue" and evil is to "end" zen killed the president to prevent him from committing suicide and for people not to influence the president and do the same, so he "ended" with the life of the president, doing evil to avoid a greater evil, showing that sometimes only evil can end evil.
In the anime, Zen represents good (Not just Zen but several other characters) and Magase represents evil, Magase stayed alive to say that evil will never end, good and evil are things that will always exist.
The fact that she changed faces was a symbolism to say that evil is not just one thing, but several
Magase in anime is literally evil incarnate
Zen in the end either killed himself or someone shot him, for example someone in the helicopter who shot him because he killed the president
In the end I think the anime delivered the message that he wanted to convey very well
Jan 30, 2020 1:57 PM
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Aug 2016
219
if u hate magase i hate u too
she is just want play
why all not answer yes when say that
thats why all dead
Jan 30, 2020 2:02 PM

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Aug 2016
158
This anime pulled a erased on me. Pretty decent until episode 7 than i started getting pretentious and boring. I am glad its over. Also the ending made no sense at all. so many unanswered questions left. I hope this does not get a season 2.
Jan 30, 2020 2:38 PM
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Jan 2020
7
Now I'd hardly call the crunchyroll anime awards the most definitive awards show going, but by all means if Magase Ai doesn't win best villain it would be a travesty, a somewhat anticlimactic end to the show wanting me to have some more closure, but by god is the woman evil
Jan 30, 2020 3:01 PM

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Sep 2011
813
SenpaiMars-Barz said:
Sury said:
It's sad that most people rate this show just based on how they saw the ending. Almost everything was explaining, like 90% of everything and the rest is up to the viewer to think about. Some people simply just seem to need to have everything to be shoven down their throat. I agree that the second half never reached the heights of the first one. The more phylosophical way the author went wasn't what most people wanted and it certainly was done in a mediocre way as well. But judging something just because of the way it ended and not taking other aspects like the first half, direction and everything mentioned above into account is just some kindergarten level of behaviour.


The entire story is literally "90%" loose ends. I'm going to give the show a good score because I think the themes and story as a whole were still solid, but there was not one iota of a resolution to this show. We don't even know entirely what Magase was or why she was doing what she was doing. She is entirely surmised through biblical references that may or may not have anything to do with her actual character. I think it's pretty obvious why Zen shot the president, but the central conflict of Zen and Magase was not in anyway resolved by that final standoff. Not to mention I don't see how the good and evil is based on continuing and ending philosophy built up in the last couple episodes ties into the plot at all. Based on what Wood deducted then suicide would be "bad" since it's not continuing.....but I really don't want to believe that the show spent its entire runtime drawing this grey area with the suicide law only to be like "it's bad." Either that is what the good and evil predicament is saying, or there is something else to it that I'm not seeing. I really hope it's the latter or else I'm just going to be disappointed.


Who Magase was as well as her motives were explained pretty well. The Whore of Babylon, The one who seduced Adam and Eve, Satan, Lilith or every other embodyment of evil. Which also explains her motives, since evil does evil. Though in this case, she only wanted to play a game. She said it earlier and this is why they even repeated this line in a key moment. The show started as a thriller/mystery and tried to tie in the whole phylosophical aspect, so it was of course never fully explained. Sure, that could've been done much better, but in the end, you'll never be able to explain beings like God or the Devil, so for what the show is, it was wise to not realy try at all.
Also there was now resolve to the conflict between Zen and Magase, since Good (which Zen represented) vs Evil will always continue, which is also why Ai met his son in the post-credits scene.
Jan 30, 2020 6:03 PM
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Jan 2020
1
I know it says to not discus the manga. But why the manga ending is different? same writter? HELP XD
Jan 30, 2020 6:42 PM

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Jan 2019
700
This show is a writer's excuse to express his philosophy. Whilst it does express some interesting questions, it lacks believability and substance making this all a waste of time.
Ai Magase was a waste of oxygen, almost all of these characters were as well.
Jan 31, 2020 1:04 AM

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May 2015
5426
Wow. I thought people were overreacting when they said that the show takes a complete nose dive after episode 7. I thought, "These first 7 episodes are pretty damn solid. It can't possibly get THAT bad after this right?", but no, you guys weren't kidding. Pre and post episode 7 feel like completely different shows. I'm honestly baffled right now. Wtf happend? This is one of the biggest train wrecks I've ever seen.

Jan 31, 2020 2:51 AM

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Jan 2016
1621
bullshit that Zen and Alex died, yet Magase somehow magically survived. We didn't get to know ANYTHING about Ai's power. We don't know what happened to the suicide law. This anime started out great, but it really disappointed me in the end. I still enjoyed it, but I wish this route wasn't taken.
6/10
Jan 31, 2020 2:56 AM

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May 2009
9530
I thought MAL will hate it like ANN.
Jan 31, 2020 3:17 AM
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Jul 2019
6
Bro, i really-really cried, when Alex (President) is gone. And by the way. I really i want to destroy that woman. After he take Zen's life, now She gonna play with his child. I really-really hate her.
Jan 31, 2020 6:25 AM
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Jul 2015
1
can anyone who read the sorce (either manga or light novel) can pm me the ending in the source plz?
Jan 31, 2020 6:47 AM
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Jan 2017
2646
-GilgaSmash- said:
anime-prime said:
I don't understand the point of this show. Shock factor? Evil wins in the end? Was this entire detective thriller just an excuse to talk philosophically (and lazy philosophy at that) and to kill the president of the united states? What was the point? I don't need happy endings but I need some sort of closure that shows that watching these 12 episodes had a purpose. What a waste of potential to an amazing premise.

The whole point of the show is that you cannot define good and bad and having an open ending was a no brainer... it was always going to happen


Maybe I am not understanding what you mean but they literally spelled out good vs bad in the last episode. Good=continuing and evil=ceasing to continue. I am not saying that this is a correct or incorrect way of looking at it but either way the ending didn't have to be an open ending. Open endings can work but I don't think that it was handled well in this anime.
Jan 31, 2020 8:18 AM
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Jul 2018
561541
Dr_Kon said:
What a pile of incohesive nonsesense that was, despite the interesting initial premise and setting. It had the potential to become a great mystery/thriller like Monster (but obviously with fewer episodes than Monster), where Seizaki would be a man on a journey to find answers like Tenma and Magase would be the equivalent mysterious person that Johan Liebert was.

Instead, the writer decided to go on a tangent halfway and forcefully introduce a number of different and incohesive philosophical concept that he probably remembered that he read in Michael Sandel's book ''Justice'' to sugarcoat his story as a sophisticated one, as well as introducing a bunch of extra unnecessary characters. In reality it was some superficial crap to make his audience believe that the story actually delved into some deep philosophical thinking and contemplation when in reality the whole show only managed to scratch the surface of a number of different concepts without any concrete moral of the story or a satisfying conclusion. Because taking 12 incohesive episodes to conclude all of a sudden that "to continue" is "good" and to "end" is "bad" is not really a conlcusion, it is pure autism and a waste of time.

The only true moral of the story, similar to Kado series written by same guy, is that the author never misses a Monday doing drugs. What a disappointment and waste of a good premise this series was. I can foresee, however, this show is going to create a smaller in numbers cult-like supporter base similar to Evangelion where they are going to tell everyone else the epic meme: "if you didn't like this show, then it absolutely means you didn't understand it" sort of thing.


I honestly thought the characters arguing what's good and evil, only to come to that conclusion, was stupid. I thought:
good = benefiting as many people as possible with the least amount of effort and harm evil = harming others.
Like, suicide, good and evil, are topics that philosophers have argued for centuries in long writings, and I just felt like this show just oversimplified all that.

I just don't get why with how the show was built, how Seizaki was built, he'd refuse to kill Magase. Like, he killed the president, a good guy he cared about. But even that made no sense: "To end = evil, Alex will commit evil, therefore I will embody evil by killing him instead." Like, what??
Jan 31, 2020 10:26 AM

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Oct 2013
4502
Yeah, this conclusion confirms this series was never really intended as a mystery thriller but from episode 3 was utterly and completely about the author's attempt to discuss the topic of suicide. I haven't seen an anime beat its audience with its agenda so boorishly since Yumikuma Arashi.

A meaningful inconclusive ending can win me over with far more fervor than any of your bog-standard wrap-ups (I would debate the ending(s) are a large part of why NGE became a cult phenomenon), but I've no idea how meaningful this really is. What was the point? What's it trying to say? What even happened the last 5 minutes?

I've nothing but questions and no satisfying answers, and an open ending should still give answers.

Does the novel provide any more context to what the fuck happened?



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Jan 31, 2020 4:46 PM

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Aug 2018
454
i don't even... why?...
I think I don't know wtf I'm doing. Maybe. Probably.

Jan 31, 2020 4:56 PM
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Nov 2018
2
RealTheAbsurdist said:

I honestly thought the characters arguing what's good and evil, only to come to that conclusion, was stupid. I thought:
good = benefiting as many people as possible with the least amount of effort and harm evil = harming others.
Like, suicide, good and evil, are topics that philosophers have argued for centuries in long writings, and I just felt like this show just oversimplified all that.

I just don't get why with how the show was built, how Seizaki was built, he'd refuse to kill Magase. Like, he killed the president, a good guy he cared about. But even that made no sense: "To end = evil, Alex will commit evil, therefore I will embody evil by killing him instead." Like, what??


I will try to elaborate a bit more this train of thought, both mine and yours.
It is quite important for everyone to start distinguishing between the difference of philosophy and sophistry. There are many writings about "philosophical" concepts and paradoxes that, in essence, end up being sohpistries. Rhetoric is a key characteristic of any sophist and depending on how a concept is presented to the audience with the help of strong rhetorical argumentation, you can sway the opinions in one way or another, but without really contributing to philosophy, which is at heart the art of acquiring true wisdom and coming closer to the one and only absolute, catholic truth as ancient philosopher Socrates put it. You can reach conclusions with sophistry too, but these are not the absolute, universal truths and, more often than not, rely on public approval through logical and sensible argumentation, rather than delving deeper into the psyche and in the understanding of universe where the psyche resides.

There have been countless attempts to understand "good" and "evil" but more often than not the conclusions are based on sophistries. As Plato put it before in his work "allegory of the cave", there are two worlds, there is the world of senses and materials (our world, the fake world according to him) and there is also the world of ideas (the real world) in which all the absolute truths exist. And it is the duty of the philosopher to break out of his chains in the cave, climb up and find the exit to the real world, and once he finds it to come back and liberate all the other prisoners in the cave by enlightening them with the truths of the real world. In our simplistic human logic, if we are presented with a situation of "good" and "evil" in which we have to decide between saving many and saving one, most of the times we would end up choosing many. But then again, who decides what's good or evil? What does that good and evil entail exactly? Is it always important to do the good? Is it not the evil that gives importance to the good and make good exist in the first place? Does true wisdom lie in always doing what's good? So many questionmarks and so few true philosophers unfortunately.

But here is another very interesting paradox to examine on this matter: "Socrates trial" is a prime example and paradox in this "good" and "evil" discourse: Ancient Athenians had to decide whether they will sentence Socrates to death for introducing heretic ideas ("new Gods" as it is written in the prototype) that corrupt the minds of young people who admire him, or whether they will let him free to continue "corrupting" the Athenian society and youth. This is a classic case of conflict between what constitutes good and evil, who decides which side is which and whether the life of one matters more than the life of the many. If to continue is good, then keeping a great figure as Socrates alive would have been good, but from the Athenian authorities' side the good was to continue with the current status quo and without having "problematic" people like Socrates questioning it which would result in questioning the whole structure and disturb the lives of many as well as quesiton the sacrifices of many. These things and debates are complex, hence, the attempt of the writer of Babylon to completely dumb the whole concept down and generalize it, as you said, felt like a blasphemy to all these great minds in human history who spent their entire lives contemplating on these matters.

Finally, when it comes down to writing a tragic story and portray tragic characters there are certain standards that have been established since a few millenia ago in ancient Greek tragedy, especially when it comes to portrayal of tragic heroes. It is not a coincidence that even to this day, university students pursuing classic literature, theatre studies, film studies and every other course related, study the ancient tragedies to better understand the fundamental both of tragedy and tragic heroes. I am not majoring in any of these, however, I have read a fair enough amount of books on that matter out of personal interest. Diverging from these standards doesn't make your writing special, progressive or different, it just makes the writing bad as it does not conform with neither causality, nor the structure of human nature/psyche nor balance and harmony in human life. I will not go in depth because I have already written a lot of stuff, anyone with keen interest could research these notions further, but there are certain basic elements that need to be present to render a figure tragic and complete a cycle of tragedy namely:
1) Hubris (the arrogance and defiance of the limits and boundaries that results in sin/evil/wrongdoing);
2) Hatei (the blindness of the mind sent by "God" for your initial wrongdoing; the blindness caused by hatei will result in you committing more wrongdoings, until the point you commit a very grave sin that causes divine nemesis);
3) Nemesis (the grave sin you committed earlier will cause the nemesis of "God", in other words the divine wrath and divine revenge);
4) Tisis (the divine punishment to end this vicious cycle of wrongdoings and which results usually in the destruction/death of the tragic figure);

Christianity, when emerged centuries later, implimented these concepts in it too. With respect to the anime, the writer confuses religious symbolisms in the story (not uncommon for Japanese fascinated with western culture and religion to do that) and ends up mis-introducing the whore of Babylon, a symbolic figure representing the incarnation of seduction, as a "God" who passes divine judgement (nemesis) and punishment (tisis), which is bollocks in more ways than one because the purpose of punishment (tisis) is to end the vicious cycle of evil and maintain the balance and harmony (a "good" thing), although here we have the whore of Babylon, a completely irrelevant symbolism in the matters of good and evil (unless the writer wanted us to re-evaluate whether John in his "Revelations" presented the whore as a "good thing" lol) being that caring divine figure that does "good" by eliminating Seizaki, the wrongdoer, go figure. I wish Japanese writers abstained from introducing unfamiliar to them western religion concepts just because they sound cool.

I presume all the above is essentially your "Like what?" summary that you rightfully concluded and so did I with different wording in my initial post. No matter how much further someone analyzes that series, there is only disappointment in more ways than one. On a final and more practical note, many countries in G7, especially USA, have a hard-line policy of not negotiating with terrorists no matter what. But here in the show magically everyone forgot about the FBI guys who interrogated Seizaki and found that there is a series of murders and something is fishy here, or the fact that US president is not responsible for matters of internal affairs in Japan or the protection and safety of Japanese citizens, because any intervention entails breach of sovereignty, but I guess these are small letters in front of all the other anomalies in the show. "Babylon" wanted to be too many things in 12 episodes and ended up being none, just a wasted potential.
Dr_KonJan 31, 2020 5:34 PM
Jan 31, 2020 5:26 PM

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Aug 2018
454
i'm so conflicted on this..
Seizaki being forced to shot the president to stop Magase's plan was brilliant imo. I could only see that coming like 1 minute before it happened.
The bitch surviving was very unexpected too, but so very fucking anticlimactic.
God and bible were mentioned a lot so i guess she really was the snake, it explains her power...
This anime is original, it is good and it is bad too.

ALSO: you can't legalize something that isn't illegal!!
Suppose for a second, suicide IS illegal, now if i kill myself, what you gonna do? arrest my corpse? fuck off!
I think I don't know wtf I'm doing. Maybe. Probably.

Feb 1, 2020 3:17 AM

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May 2017
25
I feel like I just got stroked off for 12 episodes, then kicked in the balls. I don't care that Ai walked off scot-free, if it literally tied up any other plot points! What happened to the kid with a bad heart that was running for Mayor? What happened to the main character? How did Ai get out of there? Why does she have the most OP hypnosis power in fiction? What did the USA do after seeing the president get killed?

Shows like these are the only ones I feel truly deserve a 1/10, it keeps you hooked just enough to completely waste your time with an awful ending that spoils whatever compelling moments might have happened up to that point. I am going to avoid any Mado Nozaki stories from now on, lest I waste more of my limited time.
tfw brain crowe
Feb 1, 2020 3:58 AM

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Mar 2018
815
This show was a fucking waste of my time. Can somebody tell me what the point of this show was because I am clearly failing to recognise any if there ever was one. Even worse then Kado and it will receive the fitting rating from me too. For those who haven't watched it yet. Avoid at all cost.
Feb 1, 2020 6:02 AM

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Jul 2015
9999
Well at least zen made the right decision to kill the president instead of letting him kill himself due to Ai's control

But what the heck was that for ending... I don't really care if it is an open ending but at least I expected Zen to kill of Ai as she has done some atrocious things...

The first 7 episodes were in my opinion the best but once the whole suicide law went onto global scale it kinda got bit too boring with all those basic concepts being thrown without going all too deep into it

I wished they at least didn't leave some plotpoints open like what happened to the drug? what happened to Itsuki Kaika and his son? we will never know...

Feb 1, 2020 6:05 AM

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Jan 2015
69
Absolutely brilliant ending. Good can never win against evil without corrupting itself.

Feb 1, 2020 8:04 AM
Peacemaker

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Jan 2017
2646
-GilgaSmash- said:
anime-prime said:


Maybe I am not understanding what you mean but they literally spelled out good vs bad in the last episode. Good=continuing and evil=ceasing to continue. I am not saying that this is a correct or incorrect way of looking at it but either way the ending didn't have to be an open ending. Open endings can work but I don't think that it was handled well in this anime.

No what i meant is that despite that zen probably killed himself or atleast he ENDED someone despite being labelled as good
Magase said "this is pretty bad" which meant that simply defining good and bad will not mean you will know to walk on either of them
So the symbol of good did something bad and now the symbol of bad is free (even got to his kid in the Post credit scene)
I think they did well tho it was not some spectacular ending


That is an interesting way of looking at it. I like your interpretation of the ending although I don't think that the director had that intention in mind. I don't think think he was that smart. Maybe if I rewatched the last episode I would change my mind but I have no motivation to do so since I didn't like it. Either way, the ending was anticlimactic and had many plot holes (or at the very least, plot threads that didn't go anywhere and/or didn't make any sense in the narrative).
Feb 1, 2020 8:16 AM
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Jul 2017
1
Interesting that the ending is one big trolley problem. Kill the president or let everyone die by suicide.

If evil is just the cesation of life, then why do people want their lives to cease? I think the exact motives behind that were never explored in a really obvious way (girl who jumped off the bridge after her mother died and kaede who lost her infant child didn't really want to cease, but they didn't have a reason to continue), and that would have also explained Magase. What about Magase and death made Zen and everyone else want to die?
Feb 1, 2020 8:30 AM
Offline
Dec 2014
1
I would say the anime ended as my gaming session ended.
It crashed.

In all seriousness, it started off good and ended bad.
it's also bad because it ended and ending is bad XD







It's good that it ended tho
Feb 1, 2020 2:09 PM
Offline
Apr 2018
4
shiro_kai said:
By their logic the show ended, therefore is bad


To end is bad, the journey not so much

Although this ending was like lost potential
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