DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this chapter. If you want to discuss future events, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to read/download this chapter or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Manga Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to read/download this chapter or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Manga Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
jal90 said: Yes you should consider all options but when you blatantly state that "Luffy is a lot more resistant to damage than Katakuri", you need pretty much a source for that statement and author intent is pretty much the only thing that will give you that especially when it was actually stated that Katekuri has superior Arm.Haki so does that mean that Luffy is more durable than the right hand to a Yonko's 2nd stage haki? That's not even convenient, just straight up BS.Where was it stated that he isn't? If you are going to call something a hole or unjustified, consider all the options. And that one in specific has plenty of narrative backup because Luffy's durability has been always shown as huge. On the other hand, it was very clearly stated in the manga that the boundary that separated Luffy and Katakuri was Katakuri's use of observation haki and specifically his ability to invoke future sight. It was also pretty much explained how Luffy had to learn future sight so yeah, you probably missed some pages here. And those "pages"...are you talking about Rayleigh just mentioning that there are people that can "see the future"? Because if that's your claim as how he got it, it's pretty much on of the dumbest things ever written and still puts it a bit behind the UI asspull. |
 |
harshtruth said: jal90 said: Yes you should consider all options but when you blatantly state that "Luffy is a lot more resistant to damage than Katakuri", you need pretty much a source for that statement and author intent is pretty much the only thing that will give you that especially when it was actually stated that Katekuri has superior Arm.Haki so does that mean that Luffy is more durable than the right hand to a Yonko's 2nd stage haki? That's not even convenient, just straight up BS.Where was it stated that he isn't? If you are going to call something a hole or unjustified, consider all the options. And that one in specific has plenty of narrative backup because Luffy's durability has been always shown as huge. On the other hand, it was very clearly stated in the manga that the boundary that separated Luffy and Katakuri was Katakuri's use of observation haki and specifically his ability to invoke future sight. It was also pretty much explained how Luffy had to learn future sight so yeah, you probably missed some pages here. And those "pages"...are you talking about Rayleigh just mentioning that there are people that can "see the future"? Because if that's your claim as how he got it, it's pretty much on of the dumbest things ever written and still puts it a bit behind the UI asspull. I didn't "blatantly state" anything. The manga did for me: Luffy took a lot more damage and still he is the one to stand up, so it's not up for debate. What is up for debate is the justification behind, which you conveniently narrowed down to "plot armor". Also I don't know why you bring up Armor Haki here when it's clearly stated by the manga that the secret of Katakuri's supremacy over Luffy is his Observation Haki and future sight. And yes, I meant Rayleigh. Specifically, him saying that the way to unlock future sight is through fighting and pushing oneself to the limit. That happened, in a fight that took hours. So again, it's your choice to buy it or not. Just don't get surprised if people find something that is clearly mentioned and referenced in the narrative, and happened exactly as hinted, justified. |
jal90 said: harshtruth said: One Piece is straight forward. People really need to stop pretending that it requires a drop of thinking. Also where was it stated that Luffy is more durable than Katekuri? I must have missed those pages and Luffy's future sight sharpening in a fight where it is suddenly required is as much of an asspull as Goku mastering UI in 30min but who am I to judge the writing of "GODA"... Where was it stated that he isn't? If you are going to call something a hole or unjustified, consider all the options. And that one in specific has plenty of narrative backup because Luffy's durability has been always shown as huge. On the other hand, it was very clearly stated in the manga that the boundary that separated Luffy and Katakuri was Katakuri's use of observation haki and specifically his ability to invoke future sight. It was also pretty much explained how Luffy had to learn future sight so yeah, you probably missed some pages here. In addition, even Doflamingo acknowledged Luffy's durability in the previous arc. Luffy got used to getting beat down ever since he was a kid fighting Ace and Sabo, then all those major fights throughout his adventure. Katakuri, on the other hand, was known as someone who never lose a fight. |
jal90 said: Yes, the strength was in his FS but it was also brought up that he had superior arm.haki which obviously should add to the amount of damage you can deal/take. As for narrowing it down to plot-armor, it's the obvious conclusion and nothing else can be justified differently to it. As to buying it, I'm obviously not and so should no one else. It shouldn't even be a draw much less Katekuri on his back and Luffy standing...just horrible, horrible writing - plain and simple.I didn't "blatantly state" anything. The manga did for me: Luffy took a lot more damage and still he is the one to stand up, so it's not up for debate. What is up for debate is the justification behind, which you conveniently narrowed down to "plot armor". Also I don't know why you bring up Armor Haki here when it's clearly stated by the manga that the secret of Katakuri's supremacy over Luffy is his Observation Haki and future sight. And yes, I meant Rayleigh. Specifically, him saying that the way to unlock future sight is through fighting and pushing oneself to the limit. That happened, in a fight that took hours. So again, it's your choice to buy it or not. Just don't get surprised if people find something that is clearly mentioned and referenced in the narrative, and happened exactly as hinted, justified. |
|
| Our beloved One Piece has became a Fairy Tail. Plot Armor to the max. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Epsy said: So Katakuri got demoted to a hat hanger.. Of course not. Luffy is paying his respect to Katakuri by covering the latter's mouth. It's a very noble move. |
So it has been Fairy Tail since Alabasta? |
| So... what is the correct translation? I hope it's "Guess you can really see the future" |
Shreeder4092 said: Oh yeah, I agree and he did look pretty tall in some other shots too.HollowIchigo58 said: Also it looks like this Arc is wrapping up, which THANK GOD, because im ready for Reverie and Wano now and I didn't notice how tall Katakuri was. Yea Katakuri is pretty tall. He's about 16'8" tall. It might be hard to tell how tall he was in the fight, but there was some panels that show exactly how tall he is. |
 |
Aezeryel said: My point was that Katakuri wasn't on full power and combine that with the already mentioned power of the MC and Luffy gets the victory, if you can call that a victory. Well, if this fight would have been in a sports competition Katakuri would have been the winner since Luffy passed out first. Nobody cares if you wake up first 10 minutes after the fight finished. You can say that Katakuri won the battle but in the end lost the war since he could not prevent Luffy from escaping (we all agree that he will don't we?). ;) And regarding this fight I guess many people seem to forget some important things and are a bit rash with calling the result bullshit. Luffy being at equal strength at the end actually makes sense. Remember that Luffys tactic was to make Katakuri use up his observation haki. In chapter 886 on page 19 Luffy says to Brulee: "Haki is something that depletes... If he is in a long drawn-out fight, his color of observation will definitely weaken...!" And Katakuri said in an early stage of the fight that Luffy dodging his attacks so much is "tiring him out" and that this has never happened with previous opponents of his! During the fight Katakuri was continously using the advanced armament and observation haki, while luffy was using less haki and used it more conservatively. While Luffy got hit more by Katakuris attacks, Katakuri used up way more haki than him (Oda did not make Katakuri huff like crazy in almost every panel for nothing). Katakuris haki grew weaker and weaker as the fight dragged on, while Luffys improved. That is also why Luffy used Snakeman so late into the fight. He needed Katakuris CoO to be on his level to now get hits in with his speed form. And yeah, this is how Luffy managed to go toe to toe with someone who initially was way above his level (the exact moment when their levels were equal was when Katakuri himself stated that he no longer thinks Luffy is below his level) and in the end Katakuris haki was completely depleted while Luffy had a tiny reserve left. Oh and of course Katakuris personality played an important role as well. |
De_BaerMar 4, 2018 4:35 AM
myhoney1 said: when luffy got that black hat? When he changed his clothes while preparing for the wedding. |
 |
harshtruth said: jal90 said: Yes you should consider all options but when you blatantly state that "Luffy is a lot more resistant to damage than Katakuri", you need pretty much a source for that statement and author intent is pretty much the only thing that will give you that especially when it was actually stated that Katekuri has superior Arm.Haki so does that mean that Luffy is more durable than the right hand to a Yonko's 2nd stage haki? That's not even convenient, just straight up BS.Where was it stated that he isn't? If you are going to call something a hole or unjustified, consider all the options. And that one in specific has plenty of narrative backup because Luffy's durability has been always shown as huge. On the other hand, it was very clearly stated in the manga that the boundary that separated Luffy and Katakuri was Katakuri's use of observation haki and specifically his ability to invoke future sight. It was also pretty much explained how Luffy had to learn future sight so yeah, you probably missed some pages here. Sry,but which manga were you reading the whole time ? Luffys iron will is something which was pretty much acknowledged by every enemy he faced off. Even monsters such as Akainu and Whitebeard recognized that.His ability to take a beating is just on another level. It's something everyone reading One Piece should know at this point. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Our beloved captain was victorious after a battle that was based on resistance and speed. Still, I think the battle between Katakuri and Luffy could have been summed up more. Maybe the farewell of Sanji and Pudding is a kiss, the truth is I would look forward to seeing him, but I still see him as unlikely. |
HollowIchigo58 said: 'Shreeder4092 said: Oh yeah, I agree and he did look pretty tall in some other shots too.Yea Katakuri is pretty tall. He's about 16'8" tall. It might be hard to tell how tall he was in the fight, but there was some panels that show exactly how tall he is. I don't blame Oda. It'll be hard to convey his whole height in every single panel that's he is in. |
| Mankind knew that they cannot change society. So instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the beasts. |
| jesus christ Katakuri is a giant Luffy beat a man with a 1 bill bounty coming into the battle already tired and beat countless times hours beforehand (especially taking a bunch of kicks to the head from Sanji) |
FMmatron said: What a stupid reply...ofc it's something everyone should know, it's blatantly there but it's not something everyone should accept. What is the fucking point even? To prove that being a punching bag wins the fight because you're will is strong? That's stupid and lazy BSSry,but which manga were you reading the whole time ? Luffys iron will is something which was pretty much acknowledged by every enemy he faced off. Even monsters such as Akainu and Whitebeard recognized that.His ability to take a beating is just on another level. It's something everyone reading One Piece should know at this point. |
|
harshtruth said: FMmatron said: What a stupid reply...ofc it's something everyone should know, it's blatantly there but it's not something everyone should accept. What is the fucking point even? To prove that being a punching bag wins the fight because you're will is strong? That's stupid and lazy BSSry,but which manga were you reading the whole time ? Luffys iron will is something which was pretty much acknowledged by every enemy he faced off. Even monsters such as Akainu and Whitebeard recognized that.His ability to take a beating is just on another level. It's something everyone reading One Piece should know at this point. Well,based on your replies it didn't seem that you were aware of that fact. And lol,it's not stupid. Even from a logical point it makes sense, that a young pirate who fought countless harsh battles recently is rather used to fighting at his limit than someone like Katakuri who probably haven't had a real challenge in a long time. It's obvious who has the advantage in physical endurance,combine that with his willpower and it is something one shouldn't simply dismiss. Of course these weren't the only factors which were responsible for Luffys win,there were more,but others already answered concerning those. You're still free to have your own take on this matter,but the narrative is clearly speaking another language. And what's the point of displaying willpower in a battle shounen ?Seriously? |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
FMmatron said: From no logical stand point does that remotely make sense. How does that even work? You're telling me that Katekuri was just born with that strength and that he didn't work and fight as hard as Luffy to attain it? He fought no battles to get stronger and that his strength came from battling the weak? The point One Piece makes since Rayleigh's teachings is that the stronger the foe, the stronger you become and there is no way that you can tell me with a straight face that Katekuri didn't fight as hard or harder than or opponents tougher than Luffy.Well,based on your replies it didn't seem that you were aware of that fact. And lol,it's not stupid. Even from a logical point it makes sense, that a young pirate who fought countless harsh battles recently is rather used to fighting at his limit than someone like Katakuri who probably haven't had a real challenge in a long time. It's obvious who has the advantage in physical endurance,combine that with his willpower and it is something one shouldn't simply dismiss. Of course these weren't the only factors which were responsible for Luffys win,there were more,but others already answered concerning those. You're still free to have your own take on this matter,but the narrative is clearly speaking another language. And what's the point of displaying willpower in a battle shounen ?Seriously? |
|
LeMasta said: Luffy beat a man with a 1 bill bounty coming into the battle already tired and beat countless times hours beforehand (especially taking a bunch of kicks to the head from Sanji) Luffy did not go tired into the battle. You seem to have missed that he rested (and ate) inside of Capones castle before the tea party so he pretty much was back at 100%. |
harshtruth said: FMmatron said: From no logical stand point does that remotely make sense. How does that even work? You're telling me that Katekuri was just born with that strength and that he didn't work and fight as hard as Luffy to attain it? He fought no battles to get stronger and that his strength came from battling the weak? The point One Piece makes since Rayleigh's teachings is that the stronger the foe, the stronger you become and there is no way that you can tell me with a straight face that Katekuri didn't fight as hard or harder than or opponents tougher than Luffy.Well,based on your replies it didn't seem that you were aware of that fact. And lol,it's not stupid. Even from a logical point it makes sense, that a young pirate who fought countless harsh battles recently is rather used to fighting at his limit than someone like Katakuri who probably haven't had a real challenge in a long time. It's obvious who has the advantage in physical endurance,combine that with his willpower and it is something one shouldn't simply dismiss. Of course these weren't the only factors which were responsible for Luffys win,there were more,but others already answered concerning those. You're still free to have your own take on this matter,but the narrative is clearly speaking another language. And what's the point of displaying willpower in a battle shounen ?Seriously? He had also to work his assoff,make a name for himself, till Big Mom eventually became a Yonkou,but that's the past. As Law already told,the big timers took it easy recently. Which opponent could Katakuri fight? No one is daring enough to go up against a Yonkou. And even if they do,most fail against the strong security in Mamas territory. Katakuri probably never gets a shot,of course his senses get a bit dull.One can only grow with the challange as Luffy did. I'm not here to discredit Katakuris achievements over the years and performance in the fight,it's just that Luffy,who's at the top of his game, was slightly better in this encounter. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Finally Luffy vs Katakuri is over. Also I love Sanji/Pudding more each chapter. I guess she gave him a kiss, but who knows what Oda did with them. |
FMmatron said: Which is bullshit. The introduction of the BMP is as bad as filler. Very underwhelming and overall horrible arcI'm not here to discredit Katakuris achievements over the years and performance in the fight,it's just that Luffy,who's at the top of his game, was slightly better in this encounter. |
|
| 1 Last Wish....O.O NO FREAKING WAY DID PUDDING JUST!? Damn tough we did not him getting that Kiss ( It had to be that) AND IT IS A FREAKING ..............!!! Personally Satisfied with That!!!! .....Wait....-.- Oh Luffy Won....not that satisfying then...would have been better if that had been Draw...very good fight tough.....And I am not calling this a Victory....as I think of it...it was a draw..... WAIT!! PEKOMS!!!! How did freaking no one suspected him to help Luffy!? |
JarjaxleMar 3, 2018 7:38 AM
| Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.~Winston Churchill "Fate of the universe will be Decided as it SHOULD be, in MORTAL KOMBAT!" ~Elder Gods "Justice WILL Prevail?" "But OF COURSE IT WILL!! WHOEVER WINS, BECOMES THE JUSTICE!!!" ~Donquixote Doflamingo (King, Pirate, Shichibukai, Philosopher(?) (One Piece)) |
Who should have suspected him? Nobody of the BM pirates knows about his relationship with Luffy and the Strawhats. Or are you talking about the readers? Sorry, its not quite clear. |
De_BaerMar 3, 2018 7:10 AM
| Great chapter. I'm really interested in what Pudding did, the most obvious conclusion does certainly seem to be a kiss with her possibly erasing Sanji's memory right after but let's wait and see. The long and hard fought battle between Luffy and Katakuri finally comes to an end. I'd definitely say it felt more like a draw than Luffy actually winning it. However what really got me was the respect Luffy and Katakuri showed to each other after the battle. Katakuri asking Luffy for a rematch under the pretense of him coming back to defeat Big Mom and Luffy putting the hat on Katakuri was awesome. I'm really looking forward to the time both of them meet again. Pekoms. :D |
 |
De_Baer said: Who should have suspected him? Nobody of the BM pirates knows about his relationship with Luffy and the Strawhats. Or are you talking about the readers? Sorry, its not quite clear. Readers of course, only ones that knew that he helped SH into cake Island are Firetank Pirates and they betrayed BM... I at least have not see anyone of the readers say or even suspect that Pekoms is going to rescue Luffy. |
| Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.~Winston Churchill "Fate of the universe will be Decided as it SHOULD be, in MORTAL KOMBAT!" ~Elder Gods "Justice WILL Prevail?" "But OF COURSE IT WILL!! WHOEVER WINS, BECOMES THE JUSTICE!!!" ~Donquixote Doflamingo (King, Pirate, Shichibukai, Philosopher(?) (One Piece)) |
| Nice chapter :D Luffy vs Katakuri was so awesome. Just i think katakuri is stronger and plot armor help there :) but i dont care about it. Here in last frame we got onomatopoeia. Can anyone told me what its mean? Kiss or something else? Edit: Hmm Katakuri miss his last attack in this chapter?? If yes i can understand his win now. Maybe Katakuri hit on the floor and make this hole but i think they hit both and Luffy win with his endurance but it still a bit bad because Katakuri is a big man, big solid fighter and there its definitly nerf on Katakuri :/ Anyway chapter was so good. |
MalyRBTMar 3, 2018 12:42 PM
  |
| That is my MAN, as always he is impressive but overall I think the fight is a draw and I think Katakuri is one cool baddie. I am in love with Luffy all over again the way he handled the fight in the end by covering Katakuri with a hat( sign of respect). I wonder how will he escape those guys at the exit. To those haters that thought Oda messed up the fight, I think you should quit OP obviously Shounen ain't for you( go read ROM or something), I am tired of your stupid whinings( quit PLEASE!!) Damn that was an intense fight that I will never forget and look forward to its animation. |
lihle808Mar 3, 2018 3:20 PM
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove  |
| I love One Piece but this was one of the most embarrassing chapters I've ever read. Oda really wrote himself into a corner and instead of backing out ended the fight in the most bullshit way possible. Luffy had no business winning that fight. It would've made more sense to run away, as Gol D. Roger had done before. But instead we had this embarrassment of a fight. Throughout the fight Katakuri destroyed Luffy. It was one of the most one sided beat downs imaginable. The only real damage Katakuri took was self inflicted. Yet we're somehow supposed to believe that the 4 hits Luffy had on Katakuri where more damaging then the entire beatdown Katakuri gave Luffy? Like really? We're supposed to believe that "lmao luffy has max stamina! just turn your brain off XD" is a good reason to give Luffy a win? Really? Can you not tell how ridiculous it sounds to claim the guy getting curb stomped and bled to death outlast the guy simply smacking him around? Or are we supposed to go "lmao luffy is a rubber man XD he can take a hit"? Yet funny how people that say that seem to forget that haki nullifies the effects of devil fruits and can give real damage on devil fruit users. Oh but let's just forget about that for plot convenience. This was a complete and total insult on his audience's intelligence. And speaking of that audience its embarrassing to see so many blindly defending this as good writing. I love this manga for the quality, I don't just blindly eat up whatever garbage is spewed and treat it as the gospel. If the quality dips like it did here I'll glad call it out on it. And this imo had been one of the better arcs up until now. This chapter would've been perfect had the fight not been so one sided before. If Oda really wanted Luffy to win then maybe he shouldn't have made Katakuri so strong, that would've been better but instead he created this mess. I really hope it turns out Katakuri just let him go in the end, it would explain why Luffy was surprised to see him fall over in the end. But that's just me desperately trying to find a way to salvage this embarrassment of a fight. I thought Oda was better than this, apparently not. |
| Katakuri won the attack exchange but luffy's conquerors haki and rubber body keeps him going longer. Luffy is younger though so he will surpass him eventually. |
 |
NovaLord said: I love One Piece but this was one of the most embarrassing chapters I've ever read. Oda really wrote himself into a corner and instead of backing out ended the fight in the most bullshit way possible. Luffy had no business winning that fight. It would've made more sense to run away, as Gol D. Roger had done before. But instead we had this embarrassment of a fight. Throughout the fight Katakuri destroyed Luffy. It was one of the most one sided beat downs imaginable. The only real damage Katakuri took was self inflicted. Yet we're somehow supposed to believe that the 4 hits Luffy had on Katakuri where more damaging then the entire beatdown Katakuri gave Luffy? Like really? We're supposed to believe that "lmao luffy has max stamina! just turn your brain off XD" is a good reason to give Luffy a win? Really? Can you not tell how ridiculous it sounds to claim the guy getting curb stomped and bled to death outlast the guy simply smacking him around? Or are we supposed to go "lmao luffy is a rubber man XD he can take a hit"? Yet funny how people that say that seem to forget that haki nullifies the effects of devil fruits and can give real damage on devil fruit users. Oh but let's just forget about that for plot convenience. This was a complete and total insult on his audience's intelligence. And speaking of that audience its embarrassing to see so many blindly defending this as good writing. I love this manga for the quality, I don't just blindly eat up whatever garbage is spewed and treat it as the gospel. If the quality dips like it did here I'll glad call it out on it. And this imo had been one of the better arcs up until now. This chapter would've been perfect had the fight not been so one sided before. If Oda really wanted Luffy to win then maybe he shouldn't have made Katakuri so strong, that would've been better but instead he created this mess. I really hope it turns out Katakuri just let him go in the end, it would explain why Luffy was surprised to see him fall over in the end. But that's just me desperately trying to find a way to salvage this embarrassment of a fight. I thought Oda was better than this, apparently not. This. Too much asspull power ups now. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
NovaLord said: I love One Piece but this was one of the most embarrassing chapters I've ever read. Oda really wrote himself into a corner and instead of backing out ended the fight in the most bullshit way possible. Luffy had no business winning that fight. It would've made more sense to run away, as Gol D. Roger had done before. But instead we had this embarrassment of a fight. First of all I find it really surprising that some people think this way especially after having read One Piece for such a long time. Is it because we did not have a 1vs1 fight like this for such a long time and people forget that this is nothing new? Luffy had no business beating Crocodile with his extremely severe injuries (and being poisoned even) and he still won even though he should have been dead multiple times. Same against Lucci were he took more damage and 2 deadly hits at point blank range and still did not fall and ended the fight in his favor with his strongest attack. I can't remember anyone complaining about this back in the day and shouting "asspull" or "bad writing". Everyone accepted it and counted the fights among the best of the series. And please don't tell me that this fight against Katakuri is much different in this regard. The point is that Luffy still endured everything and came out on top in the end (or it was a draw this time however you want to look at it). I think Oda made it clear on multiple occasions throughout the story that powerlevels are not really a thing in One Piece and that pure will overcomes all. He pretty much spelled it out during the fight against Don Krieg when Zeff talked about the "spear" Luffy posesses. This also goes hand in hand with Luffy getting vastly outclassed and beaten in his first fight against Lucci in W7. He got completely trashed because his will was weakened due to him being unsure about Robins true intentions (as confirmed by Nami). Quite frankly, I find it a bit shocking that even people who claim to love One Piece and have read it for many years suddenly bitch and complain about how the Katakuri fight turned out even though the result is pretty much consistent with the overall narrative and what was shown previously in past arcs. The only explanation I have for this is that those people did not realize yet that they have grown out of the series... Oh, and Roger never ran away, you seem to confuse something here. It was even stated by Shanks that he wished sometimes that Roger would just run away but he didn't. Ace also did not run away because he inherited that trait from his father. NovaLord said: Throughout the fight Katakuri destroyed Luffy. It was one of the most one sided beat downs imaginable. The only real damage Katakuri took was self inflicted. Yet we're somehow supposed to believe that the 4 hits Luffy had on Katakuri where more damaging then the entire beatdown Katakuri gave Luffy? Like really? We're supposed to believe that "lmao luffy has max stamina! just turn your brain off XD" is a good reason to give Luffy a win? Really? Can you not tell how ridiculous it sounds to claim the guy getting curb stomped and bled to death outlast the guy simply smacking him around? Or are we supposed to go "lmao luffy is a rubber man XD he can take a hit"? Yet funny how people that say that seem to forget that haki nullifies the effects of devil fruits and can give real damage on devil fruit users. Oh but let's just forget about that for plot convenience. As I already said, Luffys insane endurance has been a thing since the early major fights of the series. But there was more to this fight than him getting only 4 hits in on Katakuri. I think I explained it relatively well in my earlier post (but I could go into even more detail). I encourage you to read it and maybe re-read the whole fight again. Luffy "winning" this fight makes actually much more sense than his previous wins against Croc and Lucci where he pretty much just stood up again and won despite being pretty much wrecked completely. ezaya said: This. Too much asspull power ups now. Please be more specific. What "asspulls" do you mean exactly? |
De_BaerMar 4, 2018 5:13 AM
| So, it wasn't a draw? |
 |
| Pekoms is such a good guy ...here for help...I still want pudding to join the straw hat crew... still shipping Sanji X Pudding |
 |
| what a fight and a respectull end. for me the petition is stop smooking that is really bad for a cheff, you loss your taste buds and smell capacities. |
De_Baer said: Luffy had no business beating Crocodile with his extremely severe injuries (and being poisoned even) and he still won even though he should have been dead multiple times. Same against Lucci were he took more damage and 2 deadly hits at point blank range and still did not fall and ended the fight in his favor with his strongest attack. I can't remember anyone complaining about this back in the day and shouting "asspull" or "bad writing". Everyone accepted it and counted the fights among the best of the series. And please don't tell me that this fight against Katakuri is much different in this regard. I know this might sound shocking to believe, but yes it is different. Plus you assume I didn't complain back then. I don't look too highly on Alabasta for some reasons but am forgiving because it was a different time back then. The Crocodile fight was bullshit but wasn't even the biggest bullshit part in the arc (Pell living). Even then the Crocodile part holds nothing on this as there is a difference in context and knowledge that we knew. When Luffy fought Crocodile we knew nothing about haki. So the excuse that Luffy is a rubber man or Crocodile is a sand man held more weight then they do now. Crocodile was OP'd cause of his fruit then Luffy must be the same cause of his. It wasn't just this but it was also the fact Luffy found his weakness. The reason Luffy won is because Crocodile who was OP because of his fruit had been weakened by water and was no longer at his best. His fruit was no longer a factor. Sure Luffy should've died after the stab wound but the excuse that he's made of rubber (and his body works different) held more weight back then. This is no longer the case because we know haki nullifies DF and given our current knowledge Luffy should've died (he should've died back then but those excuses held more weight back then). So when Katakuri is smacking him around he is hitting Luffy without having to deal with Luffy's devil fruit. I still think crocodile fight was bullshit but the context from what we knew back then is much different. In the fight against Lucci, the context still fits. Lucci had just barely gotten his devil fruit so it wasn't like he was able to make the most of it against Luffy. Luffy had tons of experience with his fruit whereas that was his first fight with his. Of course he was gonna be at a disadvantage. Plus it wasn't a one sided beatdown like Katakuri. Not too mention Crocodile and Lucci are no Katakuri. There's a huge difference in their strength relative to the series. Crocodile was a simple dictator whereas Katakuri is supposed to be Big Mom's first mate. The top commander to a younkou, who are supposed to be endgame in the series. In other words Crocodile and Lucci are villains of the week whereas Katakuri is nearing endgame. Only thing Crocodile had going for him in the fight was his devil fruit but Katakuri is much more then that. He had his insane haki, superior strength, and superior use of a fruit similar to Luffys that was awakened. There aren't many fighters stronger than him. If you remember Marineford Whitebeards commanders where able to hold their own against admirals (even if they did lose that feat is impressive). That's the level a top commander like Katakuri should be at so for Luffy to just beat him because "lol stamina" is simply insulting. So Katakuri despite being near the top lacks this stamina after smacking around some guy but the guy getting battered and bled out somehow has the stamina to keep walking. Two admirals fought each other for five days and while Katakuri may not be at their level are you telling me he couldn't even last a day? Really? That's ridiculous and terrible writing. I don't care that Luffy will reach the top, I expect him to, but if he's gonna be stronger give him a logical progression to the top, not just asspull his way there. And yes his magical stamina is as asspull as it gets. De_Baer said: Oh, and Roger never ran away, you seem to confuse something here. It was even stated by Shanks that he wished sometimes that Roger would just run away but he didn't. Ace also did not run away because he inherited that trait from his father. Funny how earlier in your post you claim people miss the point yet here you seem to forget what even happened in this arc. Read the manga. Big Mom said Roger ran away after reading the poneglyph. He didn't stay and fight, there was no reason why Luffy couldn't have done the same. It would've mirrored Roger. De_Baer said: As I already said, Luffys insane endurance has been a thing since the early major fights of the series. But there was more to this fight than him getting only 4 hits in on Katakuri. I think I explained it relatively well in my earlier post You're literally doing the "lmao luffy has max stamina! just turn your brain off XD" argument. Your post is ridiculous. So you really expect people to believe that the guy with more haki depleted their haki faster then the guy with less haki who is getting curb stomped and desperately trying to stay alive? Are you forgetting how much haki is used up by gear fourth which luffy used in the fight? So Luffy who used gear fourth throughout the fight had haki but Katakuri didn't, like really. Or are we just supposed to turn our brains off and ignore that? Likewise why are you only focusing on haki and not physical damage? The amount of haki remaining is irrelevant if you're bleeding to death with broken bones. Physical damage also depletes how much haki you have so Luffy getting destroyed would affect his Haki level. Going by the simple logic in the series Luffy should've lost. This level of plot armor is similar to garbage series like Fairy Tail. You seem to be a One Piece fanatic, so getting you to see the obvious will be next to impossible. I love One Piece not because its One Piece but because of the great writing. This is not the One Piece I love. You might be okay with this but those of that actually care for the quality will gladly criticize it. I still love this arc although not as much. I hope its explained as if Katakuri just let him go because otherwise this is just downright insulting to the intellect of his audience. This whole fight has just left a foul taste in my mouth. No person who truly loves One Piece should be okay with this. |
| So, what am I missing with these arguments over who won. I thought it was implied nobody won and the fight would finish after? |
harshtruth said: FMmatron said: Which is bullshit. The introduction of the BMP is as bad as filler. Very underwhelming and overall horrible arcI'm not here to discredit Katakuris achievements over the years and performance in the fight,it's just that Luffy,who's at the top of his game, was slightly better in this encounter. If all you care about is power levels and hype, then that's you. But from a theme, character and lore standpoint, this arc has been on point: Theme of familial abuse for being different or imperfect with Sanji, Pudding, and Katakuri. Sanji's backstory and conflict with Luffy. Katakuri's development. Jinbe and Carrot being badass. Elbaf buildup and Big Mom backstory. Brook and Nami standing their ground against Yonko forces. Pedro's sacrifice and mention of "The Dawn". Capone's moment against Oven. Pound's last words. The best purely action chapter in years (all of 895) |
SuperRed said: Get that dumbass logic out of here. If I cared about PL and hype, I would have said that. What I care about is logic. With the defeat of Katerkuri, Luffy stands above Yonku commander in rank (he solo'ed DT and DT had help). Sure that would be a logical ascent of his power IF it happened after another time skip. He has been systematically bull-dozing every one of the BMP even though he's at a major disadvantage which putting this arc on Fairy Tail bullshitery. Sure you can ignore that and call the arc "on point" but don't get your panties in a twist when someone with a brain starts questioning things but that's what you get when people look at things with fanboy logicIf all you care about is power levels and hype, then that's you. But from a theme, character and lore standpoint, this arc has been on point: Theme of familial abuse for being different or imperfect with Sanji, Pudding, and Katakuri. Sanji's backstory and conflict with Luffy. Katakuri's development. Jinbe and Carrot being badass. Elbaf buildup and Big Mom backstory. Brook and Nami standing their ground against Yonko forces. Pedro's sacrifice and mention of "The Dawn". Capone's moment against Oven. Pound's last words. The best purely action chapter in years (all of 895)  |
|
Isterio said: Kuma said: kind of anticlimatic IMHO, but could have been worse... at least it end.. i am interested in pudding... I love this guy, always saying the truth, always short and compact. Chapter was a 3/5. Fighting correography was lackluster too awful, writing was corny at the end everything else was just ok. Expectations weren´t high but it´s a letdown compared to the quality & promise last chapter delivered. Big Mom is the worst Yonkou,Katakuri the most entertaining Yonkou Commander with the coolest design, if nothing exceptional happens for the last chapters, this arc is a 5/10, below average. onepiece choreohraphy always has been not one piece strength (tbh, even FT actually batter, until it was turned out into stronger shouting).... it's wackyness on it's fight make it memorable... so this fight is exactly like what i expect in one piece even the final moment is weak and how dragged it was previously... 7/10 for this chapter... my main problem in this arc is it herrendious pace... and yeah, big mom... otherwise, okay arc imho, 6/10.... might get better arc if it's fix it pace in upcoming chapter... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
harshtruth said: SuperRed said: Get that dumbass logic out of here. If I cared about PL and hype, I would have said that. What I care about is logic. With the defeat of Katerkuri, Luffy stands above Yonku commander in rank (he solo'ed DT and DT had help). Sure that would be a logical ascent of his power IF it happened after another time skip. He has been systematically bull-dozing every one of the BMP even though he's at a major disadvantage which putting this arc on Fairy Tail bullshitery. Sure you can ignore that and call the arc "on point" but don't get your panties in a twist when someone with a brain starts questioning things but that's what you get when people look at things with fanboy logicIf all you care about is power levels and hype, then that's you. But from a theme, character and lore standpoint, this arc has been on point: Theme of familial abuse for being different or imperfect with Sanji, Pudding, and Katakuri. Sanji's backstory and conflict with Luffy. Katakuri's development. Jinbe and Carrot being badass. Elbaf buildup and Big Mom backstory. Brook and Nami standing their ground against Yonko forces. Pedro's sacrifice and mention of "The Dawn". Capone's moment against Oven. Pound's last words. The best purely action chapter in years (all of 895) You talk about me getting my panties in a twist when you're angry that people don't feel the same way about this fight as you. The biggest issue is that Luffy tanked many more attacks from an overall stronger character. I admit it doesn't have a perfectly good justification, yet One Piece was always about themes and fun rather than strict rules of what should happen. Btw, about the Fairy Tail comparisons, Mashima isn't even the worst in that aspects, older shounen authors like Toriyama and even Togashi at one point made bad mistakes that are just as bad as FT. And yes Oda has made them too. P.S. Who is "DT"? |
SuperRed said: Man don't get me started on Toriyama. Yes I unhinge a bit quickly, that's my fault but I just don't see eye to eye with people that try to justify BS. While the themes of this arc might have been good, it's all underlining themes and it's not as blatant in-your-face as the fights have been and that's what I took this arc for - at face value, this was an arc that surmounted Luffy as a threat to the Yonko which I just don't see as plausible right now but that's me.You talk about me getting my panties in a twist when you're angry that people don't feel the same way about this fight as you. The biggest issue is that Luffy tanked many more attacks from an overall stronger character. I admit it doesn't have a perfectly good justification, yet One Piece was always about themes and fun rather than strict rules of what should happen. Btw, about the Fairy Tail comparisons, Mashima isn't even the worst in that aspects, older shounen authors like Toriyama and even Togashi at one point made bad mistakes that are just as bad as FT. And yes Oda has made them too. P.S. Who is "DT"? P.S. "DT" is Dogtooth aka Katerkuri |
|
| Ah. I have to admit that I underestimated how much I would enjoy reading the OP manga. I thought I would just stick with the anime, but all the hype and excitement made me too curious, and the anime has been dragging so badly that I couldn't ignore it any longer. Overall, I enjoyed the Luffy vs Katakuri fight just as much as everyone else seems to have, and I dread what Toei is going to do to it. As for the complaints about the finale, I have a couple of thoughts: 1) I think a lot of people are complaining because they actually like Katakuri as a honourable character unlike Luffy's other big wins. For Crocodile and Lucci, you wanted Luffy to beat the snot out of them because they were evil, but Katakuri actually shows respect and honour. So while the fights had similar elements, the characters themselves make a difference in the outcome people expect. My initial reaction was also a bit of disappointment to see Katakuri lose, but I've come to appreciate the fantastic job Oda did with Katakuri to create such a strong reaction. 2) I believe Oda made Katakuri too dominant for most of the fight. When I reflected on my initial bit of disappointment and re-read it, I felt that it wasn't as balanced as the Lucci fight. The blows they traded were too one-sided in Katakuri's favour while it was more even in the Lucci one. Basically, I believe some of those complaining would not be so bitter if it wasn't portrayed so "one-sided"-ly. As of now, I'm going to let more chapters build-up because even in manga-form, I prefer to marathon One Piece in chunks. It's not going to be easy though. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
More topics from this board
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 1118 DiscussionMei-o_Scarlett - Yesterday |
12 |
by 28012001
»»
10 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 1117 Discussion ( 1 2 )FMmatron - Jun 11 |
61 |
by landofthekwt
»»
Yesterday, 11:22 AM |
|
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 95 DiscussionDarthDaimyo - Oct 1, 2009 |
28 |
by Zowabo
»»
Yesterday, 6:15 AM |
|
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 77 DiscussionVARIAchan - Sep 22, 2010 |
18 |
by Zowabo
»»
Yesterday, 4:27 AM |
|
Poll: » One Piece Chapter 68 DiscussionToxxicTeardrop - Aug 22, 2010 |
24 |
by Zowabo
»»
Jun 17, 10:56 PM |