Shingeki no Kyojin Season 3 Part 2 Episode 9 Discussion

Lumi_Mieli said:
Sooo...biggest question I have after this:
If the curse of Ymir only allows Shifters to live up to 13 years upon injection...it means that all the Kings of the Dynasty within the walls, have had a maximum life span of 26 years.
Don't people get suspicious if their King is replaced every 13 years and is always 13 years old when being crowned?

The math is the following:
Lets say the first King is in his late 50s when he retreats to Paradise and builds the walls.
His heir is maybe in his 30s. He lets himself get eaten and the 30ish heir gets crowned.
3rd generation King would be about 25 when being injected and crowned. So he would die at 38. The child would be about 18 when being injected and crowned.
When he dies at age 31, his child would be 11! Which is not acceptable since its not in puberty yet. So he has to create offspring earlier, so lets say he is producing an heir the same year he is crowned. Then the child would be 13, when the king dies.
This child and every next king has to have sex at the age 13 and die at the age 26.
Its inevitable, that the calculation goes down to this cycle after a few generations.

Nim0174 said:

Yes there are
if you can wait, i do recommend waiting
if you are dead curious just read it

Mafagows said:
Okay, this is gonna be long but I wanna share a theory that I came up with and mindblew myself lol
Ever since the reveal of the transcending memories I've been fixated on the title of the first chapter, "To you, in 2000 years". O went back to the first panel (see you later Eren) and started thinking about who said the message of the title and to whom. I then thought that, maybe, it was Eren telling his own story to Ymir, 2000 years prior. The story of the characters we know will evolve to a point where everything falls apart, fails and the world goes to shit. Eren then decides to change the present and learns to send memories back in time to do so. The episode even starts with a narration, so it seemed to make sense. But then I realized that it wasn't Eren narrating, it was Armin.
So, summing up, I think that after everything goes bad (not just with character deaths, but something that affects the entire world, like uncontrollable overpowered unconscious titans or maybe a despotic world government), Armin decides to eat Eren and acquire the Coordinate (since he was doomed to die in a short time). He then sends his message and his story back to Ymir maybe warning her of what dangers the Titans would bring to humanity and trying to convince her that she should give up the powers and live a normal life, for those aren't powers humankind should have.
If someone finds a flaw in the theory please quote me, I'd love to know
And know that I haven't read the manga, so I only know what's been shown until this episode (and don't want to know more, please no spoilers)

Nim0174 said:


since Kruger was able to access Memories of the future this means time isn't linear in AOT, its always present, this means everything that will happen has already happened therefore the past and future cannot be altered
Ymir already knew what will happen before it happens and couldn't change it, so we live in a deterministic World
at least thats how i see it

Mafagows said:


I didn't really see it that way, I interpreted the memories as just memories from the past, of things that have already happened, or factual premonitions from the future, of things yet to be. But not that time is omnipresent or anything, I see time as being linear still, but with influences from other eras

AiHikari said:


It's normal for human beings to want everything to stay the same forever. That's not how good things in life work tho. They evolve, they change overtime, they don't restrain themselves, they stray from the predictable path. An extremely good example of it is, of course, Jojo's.

You can just be rebellious about it forever or do as many people who initially didn't like the change when reading the manga did, give it time, grow used to it and learn to appreciate it, then you'll see how it makes the series greater than it could ever be just playing safe on the predictable route.

Besides there's no 'good guys' or 'bad guys'. Even in the show they say anyone can be anything, people just need to believe in it. Even the restoration movement is shown to have a more 'blind fanatical' side to it. So if you really came down understanding that it's just 'black and white' then it's just that you didn't properly understand the changes. Before this humanity was the good guys, titan where the bad guys. Now it's different points of view colliding.

Nim0174 said:

could be too, we most likely won't know anyway until the manga and anime end :D

nonetheless its entertaining and interesting to speculate about this stuff
this is why i love this show

Nim0174 said:


Your calculation is wrong tho
Kings can have multiple Children, gotta take that into account, for every extra Child thats +13 years for the next Heir, who can have multiple Children too
so if 1 King has 6 Children for example within the time frame of 6 years
Kid 1 gets it at 13, dies at 26, Kid 2 gets it at 25 and dies at 38
so for every extra child you have one potential heir with +13 years because thats how long 1 child can carry the founding titan, so the 2nd succesor might be born 1 year later than child 1, who inherity the titan at 13, when the 2nd child is 12, the successor nr1 dies at 26 and the 2nd child is 25 and inherits the titan
if you add more than 2 children u have additional +13 years for each child
and those children wo uld inherit it at 30+ so meanwhile they can have multiple children too so lets assume king 1 has 5 children, until the first one dies at 26~ the other 4 can have 2-3 children each or more
_____________
i don't know if you can call it suspicious to replace every 13 years, it might be strange, but they can manipulate memories too or just call it a royal tradition or whatever

Mafagows said:
Okay, this is gonna be long but I wanna share a theory that I came up with and mindblew myself lol
Ever since the reveal of the transcending memories I've been fixated on the title of the first chapter, "To you, in 2000 years". O went back to the first panel (see you later Eren) and started thinking about who said the message of the title and to whom. I then thought that, maybe, it was Eren telling his own story to Ymir, 2000 years prior. The story of the characters we know will evolve to a point where everything falls apart, fails and the world goes to shit. Eren then decides to change the present and learns to send memories back in time to do so. The episode even starts with a narration, so it seemed to make sense. But then I realized that it wasn't Eren narrating, it was Armin.
So, summing up, I think that after everything goes bad (not just with character deaths, but something that affects the entire world, like uncontrollable overpowered unconscious titans or maybe a despotic world government), Armin decides to eat Eren and acquire the Coordinate (since he was doomed to die in a short time). He then sends his message and his story back to Ymir maybe warning her of what dangers the Titans would bring to humanity and trying to convince her that she should give up the powers and live a normal life, for those aren't powers humankind should have.
If someone finds a flaw in the theory please quote me, I'd love to know
And know that I haven't read the manga, so I only know what's been shown until this episode (and don't want to know more, please no spoilers)

Jim_Heart said:
What the heck about the last scene ? How could Eren Krueger had memories from future ? So it is true that free will is illusion after all ?

Nycro said:
Can anyone explain why the Owl only saved "Yeager" and not the others?

Lumi_Mieli said:


The thing is that offspring of the current king, no matter how young, has more right to the crown than siblings of the current king.
so they number of children has an influence but doesnt prolongue the lifespan of the royals that much.

Tenkensmile said:
The scene in episode 58 in which Hange repeatedly probed Eren makes me quite dislike her character.

The manner in which she persistently probed Eren as if he were up to something is quite dickish. ESPECIALLY after she had read Grisha's books. If she had an ounce of humanity, she would know that Eren was having a hard time dealing with his father's revelations.

And yet Hange's fans try to pass this scene as a "joke/humorous scene" - they must be trying to convince themselves that bullying is funny.

The scene even made it clear: Levi wouldn't jump in to defend Eren if she wasn't being an asshole.

Even back when everybody just discovered Eren was a Titan, Erwin and Levi didn't show him that much distrust.

Thanks Levi for defending Eren. I can't fucking stand it even as an audience.

p_g_adi said:

I like your idea and here are some questions or other ideas that I got from your post:
- I also remember seeing the title of the first episode the first time and I was a little bit confused. Anyway, I totally forgot about it, but your theory is quite interesting and makes sense.
- my only concern with these memories going back and forth in time is why wasn't it clear to others before Armin also? Why does it have to be Armin when there were so many other royalties in the past, most likely he is not even royal...
- I would personally not want it to be an "It was the only way!" scenario and that being the reason why the royal coordinators kept their silence and that's why they "lost" to the King's will. What is clear, is that the royal coordinators did feel guilty for what they've done or are doing, as we've seen with Frieda telling Historia that "we are sinners".
- the only way for Ymir to end all this, if she ever gets a message, is to kill herself. In order to get the message, it is required for her to make the deal with the Devil, otherwise, she wouldn't be the Founding Titan... so dying without passing the powers would be required for your theory. Knowing that the power would randomly go to an Eldian, let's assume that she shouldn't have any children and this wouldn't apply to already existing family members.
- but would this be the solution? Would not having titans be the salvation of everyone? Eren did say that he wants to kill all titans, but also Erwin said that as long as there will be more than one human, there will be war so nothing would change. You will end up at what Levi told Eren, that you can't possibly know the outcome of your actions and all you can do is to trust in your friends or your own decision; it seems that all actions are leading to death. It's the same with our own world... do we have the certainty that we are going to a better or future or maybe that better future should have been us never going past the dark ages? That's why I don't want them to alter the past or future... it would take away the uncertainty which makes the universe exciting (I agree that the power would disappear once Ymir dies).

I really hope that this anime is not going after a true peace ending because the world is cruel, not a fairy tale. But then again, the author might say that the world without titans would be like a fairy tale compared to that one.

p_g_adi said:


I think that he said only one person can reach the other side. Why Grisha wouldn't have been able to carry everyone, I don't know :D. Let's say that he would have eaten them in his early days as a titan.

SeidouTZ said:
That is one magic letter to be able to give Historia flashbacks of Ymir moments after it was written, i didn't know Shifters also possessed the ability to transfer future memories to pieces of paper such wow.

SeidouTZ said:

I understand that the anime team put that there to make that scene seem more foreboding, but like you said in the context of the show it makes zero sense.

Wasn't referring to the already shown flashback but a small scene that was shown afterwards that happened after Ymir had finished writing the letter.

DiabloMask said:
snip

AiHikari said:



I mean, you can't say something and then say you haven't said it. Not how this works.

"humanity is no longer on the verge of extinction, now it's just a battle between good guys and bad guys"

You said it yourself, NOW IT'S JUST a battle between good guys and bad guys, I don't think I need to explain to you what you yourself have said.

And yes, you can not like it, but that's just a normal reaction to when things change, after a while if you don't like, then you don't like it, but could just be aversion to change, which happens often. Shows changing and evolving is how they keep being engaging, especially when everything ties up in such a satisfying way.

And yes you can say that it's not 'extinction of humanity', but was never about it, was just an illusion. It's basically a World War, which isn't a smaller scope by any way, it's quite massive if you stop to think about it, it's still a battle for survival, but against an organized country hell bent on wiping you off the map and exterminating your people until there's no more.

DiabloMask said:


See? You're doing it again, instead of trying to understand what I'm saying "it's a battle between two sides" you pick on specific words "good and bad", because to you this is not a debate where we try to understand each other's points of view, it's just a battle of words.
I mean yeah obviously I said those words, but anyone with half a brain can tell from the context that "good and evil" is not my point.

Again you're gonna give me a life lesson about change, I'm fine with change in general, I just don't like where this story is going because of many issues I mentioned already.

And yeah the show was about humanity's extinction, they mentioned humanity vs titans in every important scene in season 1, the writer emphasized on this concept everytime something happened.
Technically most battles in general are for survival, but this is no more about humanity's survival, if the MC's side loses the battle it won't be the end of the world, sure the stakes are still high, but they're definitely lower.

Jim_Heart said:
What the heck about the last scene ? How could Eren Krueger had memories from future ? So it is true that free will is illusion after all ?

keragamming said:

DiabloMask said:


Inside the wall =/= the whole world.
You can play with words all you want, it doesn't change what I said "the stakes are still high but they're definitely lower".

JiangHaoyi1979 said:
Ok, so why did Kruger mention about Armin and Mikasa when they're yet to be born????

JiangHaoyi1979 said:
Ok, so why did Kruger mention about Armin and Mikasa when they're yet to be born????

JiangHaoyi1979 said:
Ok, so why did Kruger mention about Armin and Mikasa when they're yet to be born????

LittleStar said:


Oh... c'mon...
I crying that in next week we will get final episode (for "Season 3 Part 2") and we will need to wait for next season...
and you come at me with technical approach... xD

But... c'mon, please... give me 4th season in summer, please... no breaks!
I kinda get they want have "new start for new arc", but... I just don't want wait to fall or winter to get more SNK... ;(

Edylson said:


True words never been spoken, Erwin should've lived, although i disagree that the show died, matter of fact it just started