High School DxD Hero Episode 5 Discussion

Darklight0303 said:


Except if this experiment works, it will completely fulfile the goal of Kaos brigade which is to remove big Red from the dimensional gap so Opphis can go back. The experiment is the freaking priority.

Mattinator95 said:


That goal soon changes and with end up with another loli

Darklight0303 said:


You do realize that is technically a spoiler and you are preaching to the choir since i read the novels too, right?

ZBlastHistory said:
- Summon Oppai when you need it even while she is naked LOL
- Oppai Zombie

Please let me breath xD

Whoahoho said:
Ya know I kinda like if Cao Cao would have just kill that Oppai perv Issei.

Whoahoho said:
Ya know I kinda like if Cao Cao would have just kill that Oppai perv Issei.

Noire_cpu_ said:
i do wonder if it will still be normal 12 episodes or does episode 0 count as an episode

Riverlia said:

Someone watching an anime that have plenty of tit and ass onscreen, complete with male gaze.
*Say a character should die for being a pervert*
Such irony.

Issei is at least honest about what he want and keeps a strict code of honor (no touching without consent, no sex when the girl is not mentally or physically sound even with consent, etc). As a person he's hardworking when there's a clear task he need to accomplish and has no wham about risking his life for his friends, both male and female.

Mister-axe said:


Now what you said is interesting. I would say he has one strange code of honor then.
- "No touching without consent", except if she is an enemy and you little vampire friend froze them in time, then it's okay.
- Issei won't do sex with any girls of his harem, even though they want it and are mentally or physically sound(most of the time), but he has no problem FORCING himself to peek girls naked even at the face of authority, a teacher telling him to stop. And he even mocks the teacher for trying to do the right thing, saying she lacks a boyfriend. This type of logic is dumb and offensive.
- He has no self-awareness on how to behave properly. I kid is suffering because her mother was kidnapped and the first thing he thinks is how the mother is going to reward him with tits.

I get it: he is supposed to be this way and I like it. Issei is good at being this way: a parody of the classic version of the ideal hero. I just don't see why he is treated as a hero with morality, because most of his actions point that he isn't

Mister-axe said:


Now what you said is interesting. I would say he has one strange code of honor then.
- "No touching without consent", except if she is an enemy and you little vampire friend froze them in time, then it's okay.
- Issei won't do sex with any girls of his harem, even though they want it and are mentally or physically sound(most of the time), but he has no problem FORCING himself to peek girls naked even at the face of authority, a teacher telling him to stop. And he even mocks the teacher for trying to do the right thing, saying she lacks a boyfriend. This type of logic is dumb and offensive.
- He has no self-awareness on how to behave properly. I kid is suffering because her mother was kidnapped and the first thing he thinks is how the mother is going to reward him with tits.

I get it: he is supposed to be this way and I like it. Issei is good at being this way: a parody of the classic version of the ideal hero. I just don't see why he is treated as a hero with morality, because most of his actions point that he isn't

Mister-axe said:


Now what you said is interesting. I would say he has one strange code of honor then.
- "No touching without consent", except if she is an enemy and you little vampire friend froze them in time, then it's okay.

- Issei won't do sex with any girls of his harem, even though they want it and are mentally or physically sound(most of the time), but he has no problem FORCING himself to peek girls naked even at the face of authority, a teacher telling him to stop. And he even mocks the teacher for trying to do the right thing, saying she lacks a boyfriend. This type of logic is dumb and offensive.

- He has no self-awareness on how to behave properly. I kid is suffering because her mother was kidnapped and the first thing he thinks is how the mother is going to reward him with tits.

I get it: he is supposed to be this way and I like it. Issei is good at being this way: a parody of the classic version of the ideal hero. I just don't see why he is treated as a hero with morality, because most of his actions point that he isn't

Riverlia said:


He doesn't grope them, he strip them with a technique in which he only need to tag a random safer location. Ie he Dress Breaked Ross by touching her back.


He also do nothing beyond peeking and rarely actually succeeded at peeking.
Having a code of conduct does not mean he's exempt from being hormonal teenager. It means there are moral lines he absolutely won't cross no matter how temping it is.


And then he went and help her with zero condition and take the promise seriously. When his stomach has a hole that doesn't heal he lamented his inability to keep said promise.


Having morality =/= being 100% white knight of pure pure righteousness or Superman level boyscout.
He's someone who will do the right thing and has enough self-discipline to never cross certain lines.
At the same time he's a hormonal teenager who has no brain to mouth filter and do dumb shit that teenagers sometime do.

It said something that when his 'potential' jumped into people and they gained his level of lust for boobs, most became gropers outright, wherein Issei always ask for consent.

He's the type of character called chivalrous pervert, which is not new but usually is used for the veteran or mentor type rather than main hero. An example would be Jiraiya from Naruto.

Mattinator95 said:





It was the show that made him a hero in the eyes of the children. And it just expands from TV to reality. Issei was asked to protect the dreams of the next generation

KazeNoHimitsu said:
And wadd’ya know? Another showboating croissade, they were taking turns measuring with their rulers. Nothing of substance was met. The false hero took his sweet time to explain, and boast about his plan, he might as well have given him a cigar, and some scotch. They talked as much as motorboat engines fluttering in the fucking water. They even dangled the mom, and had her brainwashed. Cliché! The lack of nudity was quite disturbing, to say the least.

Issei sliced Caocao’s arm clean off. With such a clean cut, there would have been a chance surgeons could reattach it anyway. The problem is cao’s arrogance: he wasn’t taking the fight seriously, and underestimated Issei. He looks down on Issei, don’t look at what he says, look at what he does. One example would be how he uses otherworldly enhancements, but claims to be a simple weak human (representative of our race). As humans, we do use enhancements to compensate for our insecurities, whether they be emotional, or physical. However, when one uses otherworldly cosmetics, and does shady backdoor dealings with beings from the underworld, you start to question whether they are truly human, or corrupt. One must examine the spirit of the Heroes of yore, what is their sacrifice ? What is Cao’s sacrifice ? As shown in the anime, to deal with beings from the underworld, humans lose a part of themselves, at least a piece of their identity as humans.

Truly a corrupt human, with a sick joke of a group name.
So much for the « humanity can do it too » pep talk.

The writing for Issei’s role on the team is inconsistent. He did not portray the leader he was just a few moments ago.

Morals with regards to sex are truly subjective, being a master in S&M I cannot agree the mainstream media's will to demonize a male for his sexual appetite, and glorify a female’s promiscuous sexual behavior, in turn making young males feel guilty about feeling the pleasures of a female, and young females being ‘liberated’ with all the birth control pills, and stds they are consuming.

Regardless, it is healthy for a man to have sexual thoughts, if he isn’t having them, that means something is wrong with him. How is sex perversion ? If there was no sex, how would one be here?

Pervert was used to describe the act of homosexuality, and beastiality until recently.

There is nothing perverted about a man wanting sex, and thinking of the various ways he would like it. It is intrusive to dwell on the thoughts of others. One cannot police the mind, for one would be in a mental prison forever.

Talking about prisons, there was a rude person in this thread who spoiled this season’s plot twist.

Episode was disappointing, but now we uncovered the hypocrisy of Caocao.

Sex isn’t just penetrating, it can be a fun game of touch, grab, slap, spit, talk, whip, and lick.

Mister-axe said:


Nicely said and agree very much with you. Although I'm replying to your quote, it's not because I think it was directly pointed to me.
I just want to be clear that my opnions about Issei being Immoral are related to the fact that he does more than just having sexual thoughts. Seeing women naked is not necessarily a bad thing, but peeking women naked is an invasion of privacy and so not morally accepted.
When Issei acts based on "perverted" reasons, that doesn't make him necessarily an immoral character, but also doesn't make him moral by definition.

Mister-axe said:


Nicely said and agree very much with you. Although I'm replying to your quote, it's not because I think it was directly pointed to me.
I just want to be clear that my opnions about Issei being Immoral are related to the fact that he does more than just having sexual thoughts. Seeing women naked is not necessarily a bad thing, but peeking women naked is an invasion of privacy and so not morally accepted.
When Issei acts based on "perverted" reasons, that doesn't make him necessarily an immoral character, but also doesn't make him moral by definition.

KazeNoHimitsu said:


What you are describing is the act of voyeurism, which is prevalent in many cultures. When I was younger, my cousin and I used to peep through the air ventilation fan hole of a very popular strip club, just like Issei, I can relate to his shameless tomfoolery. The bar patrons would come out and say ‘have fun boys!’. When the strippers came out, it was like being star struck, some of them would offer us Twizzlers, and go on their way with whoever they were fucking that night, though a great deal of them are lesbians masquerading as bisexuals.

Regardless, this type of behavior constitutes the « boys will be boys type of behavior », which was forever done without consent, and without consequences until quite recently in most countries. However, what makes an act wrong is depending on whether one reports it to the police. Until then, there is no victim, there is no crime, there is no behavior that is deemed immoral. Nowadays, it depends on whether the person rused declares it as such.

Miss Valkyrie is aware of Issei’s sexual nature, his drive, and his lust. The females whom Issei has visited in the locker room are also aware. Yet, no repercussions were taken.

Let’s talk about power. The whole story is about how Issei has power over women, there is nothing inherently wrong about that, otherwise having a harem wouldn’t be possible. The fact that Issei demonstrates his power over women with the way he acts, but not the way he talks seems to bother people who grew up in a time when the men around them were domesticated, and submissive. The show is naturally depicting him as a power user, he is power incarnate. I know it must seem strange to the younglings who grew up with a declawed father, but this is MAN, hear him roar.

The whole purpose of the show is harem. With no power over the females, there is no harem.

KazeNoHimitsu said:


What you are describing is the act of voyeurism, which is prevalent in many cultures. When I was younger, my cousin and I used to peep through the air ventilation fan hole of a very popular strip club, just like Issei, I can relate to his shameless tomfoolery. The bar patrons would come out and say ‘have fun boys!’. When the strippers came out, it was like being star struck, some of them would offer us Twizzlers, and go on their way with whoever they were fucking that night, though a great deal of them are lesbians masquerading as bisexuals.

Regardless, this type of behavior constitutes the « boys will be boys type of behavior », which was forever done without consent, and without consequences until quite recently in most countries. However, what makes an act wrong is depending on whether one reports it to the police. Until then, there is no victim, there is no crime, there is no behavior that is deemed immoral. Nowadays, it depends on whether the person rused declares it as such.

Miss Valkyrie is aware of Issei’s sexual nature, his drive, and his lust. The females whom Issei has visited in the locker room are also aware. Yet, no repercussions were taken.

Let’s talk about power. The whole story is about how Issei has power over women, there is nothing inherently wrong about that, otherwise having a harem wouldn’t be possible. The fact that Issei demonstrates his power over women with the way he acts, but not the way he talks seems to bother people who grew up in a time when the men around them were domesticated, and submissive. The show is naturally depicting him as a power user, he is power incarnate. I know it must seem strange to the younglings who grew up with a declawed father, but this is MAN, hear him roar.

The whole purpose of the show is harem. With no power over the females, there is no harem.

Mister-axe said:



The fact that Issei doesn't grope them, does not do anything beyond peeking and generally doesn't succed in doing so doesn't change the fact that he wills it. It's not just his actions, but also his intentions that make immoral.
The way you say it sounds like peeking women naked isn't such a bad thing. Do have in mind that I'm excluding situations where this happens by accident. Outside combat purposes, dress break is not something that could be excusable from his part.

When I mention his lack of self awareness it's because his emotions don't correspond with what's appropriate with situation. People normally feel pitty, anger or sadness when a kid says her mother was kidnapped. Issei thinks about tits.
Furthermore, Although it's not safe to say Issei only saved the girl for the "reward", he certainly desired it and even then the show conveys the message that saving a beatiful girl gives you a reward in the form of sexual content, given the fact that many times the protagonist saves the girls, they try to reward him with boobs.

He is a hormonal teenager, but he is very above of what is considered a standard. Simple common sense prevents you from saying you want to do dirty things with you girlfriend in front of one of her family members.

For me, he fits more as the lovable sex maniac type of character.

KazeNoHimitsu said:


What you are describing is the act of voyeurism, which is prevalent in many cultures. When I was younger, my cousin and I used to peep through the air ventilation fan hole of a very popular strip club, just like Issei, I can relate to his shameless tomfoolery. The bar patrons would come out and say ‘have fun boys!’. When the strippers came out, it was like being star struck, some of them would offer us Twizzlers, and go on their way with whoever they were fucking that night, though a great deal of them are lesbians masquerading as bisexuals.

Regardless, this type of behavior constitutes the « boys will be boys type of behavior », which was forever done without consent, and without consequences until quite recently in most countries. However, what makes an act wrong is depending on whether one reports it to the police. Until then, there is no victim, there is no crime, there is no behavior that is deemed immoral. Nowadays, it depends on whether the person rused declares it as such.

Miss Valkyrie is aware of Issei’s sexual nature, his drive, and his lust. The females whom Issei has visited in the locker room are also aware. Yet, no repercussions were taken.

Let’s talk about power. The whole story is about how Issei has power over women, there is nothing inherently wrong about that, otherwise having a harem wouldn’t be possible. The fact that Issei demonstrates his power over women with the way he acts, but not the way he talks seems to bother people who grew up in a time when the men around them were domesticated, and submissive. The show is naturally depicting him as a power user, he is power incarnate. I know it must seem strange to the younglings who grew up with a declawed father, but this is MAN, hear him roar.

The whole purpose of the show is harem. With no power over the females, there is no harem.

Riverlia said:

The point

>>> about a dozen kilometers

Your head.

Nobody said Issei is a 100% political correct guy, 100% white knight or Superman tier boyscout.

The point being he's a pervert (a vice) with principles and other moralistic qualities. Discounting his only vice of pervert/peeping, he's a loyal friend, can be counted on to do good when the chip is down, and will never abuse others beyond peeping. Hence his archetype is chivalrous pervert. As in more moralistic than simple pervert with no principle (ie MC of Gokuro, Maze, Sora no Otoshimono, etc).

But apparently in your book, a person cannot have moral and vice at the same time and not being 100% incorruptible pure pureness is automatically immoral and saying he has principles or lines he won't cross is meaningless.

Mister-axe said:


Don't stretch my concept of morality as being 100% white knight. People can do immoral and moral acts and still be considered one or the other, depending of what they do.
Surely Cao Cao has a desire do "protect" humanity and is loyal to his companion and yet is considered a bad guy. Why? Because there is some things he does that exceeds the good qualities he has.
I consider Issei in general as being immoral, because at very least he knows what he is doing isn't appropriated and still continues to do it. You are saying the opposite. That's fine. As I said I'm not complaining. It's funny what you said because the reason I like the guy is mainly because he isn't a 100% white knight.
Did I deny that he is hardworking, loyal and the other qualities you said he had? No.
The motive I'm replying your comments is that every evidence I point out that proves he was being immoral, at least in that situation, you say something to excuse his habits. You can be loyal, harworking and all, but this doesn't make the "bad" things you do any less than they are. That's it.
Sorry if you think I'm just here to complain and annoy you, because I would have some problem with the character, but I assure you it's not. I mainly want to see where this discussion can go, but if you want we can change topics and find something we agree with or not discuss at all.

Riverlia said:


Then what is your point?
I said he's a pervert with principles and moralistic value.

Then you come in and complain about that and go on about how it doesn't count and all that bullshit.

If you literally don't have any real refutation about the fact that he has principles and certain moralistic value, just that you yourselves deem a guy spending three season doing good deed and peep on about about 3 occasion (only 1 success) as 'the bad outweight the good' regardless, then it's your business.

Mister-axe said:


Hmm, don't know why the agressivity, but that's on you. There's a difference between not understanding the point and not wanting to. Clearly you're part of the second choice.
The refutation is there, you just don't want to see it. Hell, are you saying you wasted your time replying to a guy without even understand his whole point? The sad thing is that I lost mine too, because of that. Honestly, I doubt you did this, you seemed smarter than that or so I thought. How about just forgetting this conversation existed, since you seem to insist in calling all that I said "bullshit". Give me a discount here too, how would I know that giving a different opnion than you would piss you off. People at your age at least try to hide this.

Also the 3 occasions were examples, of course he did more than that. The purpose is to highlight his actions. Come on man, at least try to be rational. You managed to discuss all this time without making a fuss about this.

Look like it's up to me to be the nice, sensible and polite person on this "discussion".
The point of this talk is to determine( at least convince) whether Issei can be considered a hero with morality, that is, someone who has a clear code of conduct and obeys it most of the time. My objective was to pick 3 evidences I thought would be stronger to point that Issei commits so much contractions that it's not possible to say he has a code of conduct, but more on the likes of someone who does good deeds, during certain circunstances. You'll agree that this type of person exists, even in real life, at least? I'm not saying your dear precious character is bad, I'm just saying he doesn't have a code of conduct. Saying he is immoral, even though it was not my point and I apologize if I did, is a overstretch.

I do recommend that you evaluate yourself, in terms of judgment. Getting bothered by such things like this isn't healthy. So that concludes our little talk. Hope we meet again for a more healthy discussion.

Also the 3 occasions were examples, of course he did more than that. The purpose is to highlight his actions. Come on man, at least try to be rational. You managed to discuss all this time without making a fuss about this.

The point of this talk is to determine( at least convince) whether Issei can be considered a hero with morality, that is, someone who has a clear code of conduct and obeys it most of the time. My objective was to pick 3 evidences I thought would be stronger to point that Issei commits so much contractions that it's not possible to say he has a code of conduct, but more on the likes of someone who does good deeds, during certain circunstances.

Give me a discount here too, how would I know that giving a different opnion than you would piss you off. People at your age at least try to hide this.

Riverlia said:

Seems like you are the type that like to act calm and grown up to fuel your ego. Ah well, it's the internet so all kind of people are there, I guess.

Let review this dialogue.

I said Issei is a pervert, but he's honest about what he wanted and he has principles and moral values he won't discard.

You, of course, came in, quote exactly that, and comment about how Issei peeped on girl and forcefully peep on them, commenting that he must have weird principles. The most simple interpretation is, of course, you disagree that he has principles and moral values. This is further compound by you calling him immoral.

In the end, you said that he does have principles and moral values, you just consider his bad out weight his good, ie your subjective judging criteria. Making it a waste of time because subjective preference is not logically arguable.

The fact that he did far more good than he did evil, including saving 3 races from an extinction war plots, but is immoral to you because he peeped 3 times, is your opinion to make.

I see people waste my time on subjective opinion, I call them bullshit.



Nope. Your 'rational' is jossed by context. Canonically Issei got less time and desire to peep because he has important things to do now and he's far less desperate. It eventually get to the point Azazel had to reminded him that sometime being a pervert is better than being a berserker on the field. At another time in future volumes, he took bath with naked girls and all he thought about was what to do next.

Kyoto is in fact a rare moment, not a frequent everyday thing in light of his development. When do he get time to peep frequently between all the battle, training and contract?


Except none of your example contradicted his code of conduct. His code of conduct doesn't match yours =/= he has none.

Peeping or looking at naked body (after in-combat armor breaking) is not the same as actually groping them, which is where he stop.
His code of conduct doesn't include 'don't peep'. Therefore example of peeping is a waste of time. Simple logic.

He don't just do good deeds because of circumstance. He actively noticed Kiba's stress and gathered people to help him. He was ready to die when he planned to save Asia from Raynare solo. He fought till he fainted and still unconsciously standup then walk forward because he's aware Rias will be sad if she's forced into marrying Riser. He helped and befriended contractors who paid him nothing. He actively helped others, not just because of circumstance or his own interest.





My age is enough that my little brother already have a kid. So can your age flaunting before you look more like a fool. Age doesn't mean I can't call an opinion based 'refutation' that wasted my time 'bullshit'.

Mister-axe said:

I see.................thanks for replying, wasn't certain if you were going to take the bait. Finally I know why you are agressive.


However I still don't get it. Arguments are constructed based on opnions, so why would think this is a waste of time? I get to know you and you get to know me as a result.
I really am confused now. Isn't always like this? two sides believe in different things and they try to convince the other or at least come to a consense. I can't really create an argument that's not based on how I view things.

Oh well, sorry for all this then. Honestly did not think it was such a waste if that makes you better, lol. Ok I'll stop "bothering" you.

You're probably not even going to see this, but I will pretend that you did.

Mister-axe said:

I see.................thanks for replying, wasn't certain if you were going to take the bait. Finally I know why you are agressive.


However I still don't get it. Arguments are constructed based on opnions, so why would think this is a waste of time? I get to know you and you get to know me as a result.
I really am confused now. Isn't always like this? two sides believe in different things and they try to convince the other or at least come to a consense. I can't really create an argument that's not based on how I view things.

Oh well, sorry for all this then. Honestly did not think it was such a waste if that makes you better, lol. Ok I'll stop "bothering" you.

You're probably not even going to see this, but I will pretend that you did.