Darling in the FranXX Episode 17 Discussion

readher said:


Dude, I share your view on Western Europe going shit, but if you think its current situation is anywhere near as bad as the one in Frankxx, then you're delusional.

readher said:


Dude, I share your view on Western Europe going shit, but if you think its current situation is anywhere near as bad as the one in Frankxx, then you're delusional.

nightcrawlercyp said:
Never said is as bad yet. But considering what islam leaves behind... it may not be such a distant future

WordIsBond said:


She found the book about making babies way back during the beach episode. This has been foreshadowed.

She just didn't want her baby to be fat, nothing wrong with that.

Alpenglow said:

I'm not sure who was the one who said that the big problem in this industry these days is that too many people involved in it try to recreate human relationships without having such relationships themselves (which fortunately does not happen with this case in particular).

Alpenglow said:
Well, another great episode. I like how this is going.

I'm not sure who was the one who said that the big problem in this industry these days is that too many people involved in it try to recreate human relationships without having such relationships themselves (which fortunately does not happen with this case in particular). The same applies to anime communities, and that's why it's embarrassing to read several comments here and on other websites.

MiiyoSon said:


What do you( or they) mean by this?

BonBonBunny said:


That most people can't replicate something they've never experienced

MiiyoSon said:


But how do we know Nishigori or anyone on the writing staff has ever experienced something similar to this? You guys are also acting like someone in the industry can't write about something they haven't experienced.

MiiyoSon said:


What do you( or they) mean by this?

Naudri said:
This episode was intense. As much as all the Kokoro Support/hate on this thread.

First of all, I'm impressed on some people here. These people seem to give no value to promises, which makes me sad.

To me, Kokoro's a THOT. Not because she "NTRed" Fattyboy because technically, she didn't. However, she has all attributes to be one.
First of all, she didn't give a proper response to Fatty's feelings in the "divided dorms" episode.
Then she promised Fatty she'd be his Franxx partner forever. A promise she broke like the scene after, showing her promises have 0 value. Also, being the franXX's partner has nothing to do with love. We should also consider the fact she was already thinking on having kids even BEFORE the promise (she got caught with the book by Mitsuru the first time they met in the greenhouse), so it gets worse when people defending her saying"yes" to the promise was because she was forced and "didn't know what she wanted", because she knew. She even admits it in that episode! (Ep. 11, 18:34 : I've betrayed and hurt someone, too")
Which leads to the last point, she doesn't care for others. When she switched partners, she caused a disruption in the team. Not only Fatty, but even her matching with Mitsuru was unstable at first, and after that, things have been kind of wierd inside the team.

I actually don't give a damn about characters (in terms of "shipping" and love affairs). After all, it's a fictional story, it won't cause any harm on me in the real world, and if the people behind the anime think it's good to create characters this way, good for them. It will surely make the series interesting.
However, I do care about how people react to that. And seeing people accept and back up liars and untrustful people, even if they're fictional characters, worries me a lot.

QWERTYFish25 said:
I do want to note a few things:

- Kokoro ain't no slut, she wasn't interested in Futoshi, period. She considers him a good friend and that's it. She technically broke a promise though it was sorta engineered thanks to his overbearing habits. From the POV of the viewer having kids right now ain't smart at all and likely has dire consequences aside from simply raising a kid in this dystopian setting. Remember these kids have an adoration for the ruling body. They don't exactly fear it but rather acknowledge and assume its benevolence. Child rearing, yes is a stretch but that's just kids for you. For the first time they've over the last few weeks or months have had some friction with their leaders and they've reconsidered what their lives are supposed to be about Throw a newfound understanding of the human anatomy and you have inevitable curiosity.

- I wouldn't say this is anti SJW. Sure some things that liberals say are fucking batshit, and I say this as someone who at least, according to Facebook is "very liberal". Maybe liberals are trying to perpetuate the existence of LGBTQ people as omnipresent over the past few years but last I checked heterosexuality is alive and fucking well. The birth rate of ANY population isn't endangered in the least, let alone the human race as a whole (over seven fucking billion, 5-7 times the population about 200 years ago if I am not mistaken even the smaller ethnic groups range in the hundreds of thousands well above what is needed to completely repopulate if I am not mistaken)

- Personally I can't stand the nines. They seem to come around to say a whole lot of nothing. They seem to exist only as a foil for the naive and fresh squad 13 than anything else we still have no backstory on them other they being (presumably the elite guard of APE or whatever). I have a suspicion that that "one gender" but is more a matter of being sterile than being completely gender-less more like an inaccurate understanding of what one considers gender vs sex. Not to sure about Japan's stance on sexual or gender identity are though I have a suspicious they ain't much better than we are (maybe a bit more polite at best). That elderly woman that was in the episode with big-mouth seemed to very easily be a she and she referred to her partner as he.

- Honestly the relationship between 002 and Hiro is stale as fuck. You know where it's going and they seem to be hitting all the same beats we've seen numerous times before Mitsuru and Kokoro's relationship are way more unpredictable and reasonable. Hell, even the stakes are higher given the "death flags" people have been noting as well as the possibility that Kokoro is pregnant or will be. Sure main couples die all the time in fiction but I feel as if I've seen this type of push and pull between the leads a dozen times before.




I keep hearing this imminent danger in Europe, can someone enlighten me on this or is it just people being afraid of foreigners again? I wonder, however, when you say "Europeans are dying as a people, and Americans as well" who exactly are you referring to? Last I checked the American population is doing quite well in terms of total numbers, at least, save for a handful of social issues that have affected quality of life. I have heard something about Europe being the "graying continent" though that may just be a matter of the native population being matched by immigrants. Which I've come to understand people don't see as the general European population for some strange reason. Which, really isn't a big deal or at least shouldn't be, people don't wanna have kids as early or abstain from procreation altogether. Do you consider a half Palestinian half Irish child part of the European population or do you have a one-drop rule ideology towards bi-racial children as well.

QWERTYFish25 said:


I think this was the guy who also said anime was a mistake. The idea is how rigid the relationships in anime are. The main girl and boy are always establish and they hardly go past even acknowledging feelings for one another which then are barely romantic but more goofy than anything else. They follow stale patterns reenact worn out tropes and lines that you can finding countless shows and in the same order as the others. Sex seems to be forbidden kissing is a rarity and the "romance" is always framed as "true love" or "love at first sight." Sexually is often framed as impure or perverted and always played for laughs but almost never legitimate curiosity or a valid faucet of human interaction. Even here Mitsuru and Kokoro "love each other", that phrase is pretty much tossed around almost to insulate the deed from criticism.

People are calling Kokoro a whore because she didn't follow the down the beaten down path of sticking with her implied pair. Implied being they work together, not mutual affection, sexual interest or concentrated longing to be with one another, simply because "you're MY girl because the genre or medium (through echoed precedence) says so". People claim Futoshi got "cucked" he was "cheated on" you can't be cheated on without an actual relationship and you can't have a relationship without a mutual understanding said or otherwise. That promise wasn't even romantic, she "promised" to be his partner in occupation not affairs beyond that but even that was an appeasement, a pacifier to prevent hurting her friend (and yes, she considers him a friend) but that's just it he is nothing more than a friend. She has no obligation to engage him romantically just because his feelings towards her were greater than a simple friendship. I feel for dude, I really do but this is life he has to move on. Sadly in this setting there aren't exactly plenty of fish but as for the audience the obsessiveness of Kokoro's "betrayal" is...disturbing.

It speaks to the inability to accept the fluidity of human relationships. This is the one thing that turns me off with Japanese anime. From the romance, to the archetypes to the villains, there's rarely any middle ground or acknowledgment of such. Even when a middle ground or duality of morality is present it is often a straw-man and it is countered by an equally bland ideology or speech. No thought, no consideration or concern of transforming into the thing you battle against.

BonBonBunny said:


The way the kids are portrayed gives me the impression that someone has an some kind of idea of what they're writing. Though it is true you can write about something you've never experienced, researching can help in that regard but I find that people who have experienced a certain thing can more accurately portray it than another people who haven't.

nightcrawlercyp said:
not foreigners, muslims. already in muslim neighborhoods the police does not enter anymore and you have muslim gangs patrolling the streets enforcing sharia in countries like Germany, UK, Sweden,etc.
Well by dying as a country there are a few aspects to consider. For a country to maintain its native population each family should have a minimum of 2.5 babies but the natality is way under the replacement numbers. But because of feminism women are starting having babies after 30 thus being able to produce 1 baby per family in extreme cases 2. So most of the native population is made of old folks and infertile people. And you have a welfare social system you need babies because it works as a ponzi scheme. You need a lot of people to pay the taxes that provide for welfare. And you do not have them. So since we are not immortal most people will die without having babies thus reducing the population by about 90% in just a few decades. Now the immigrants that do not work and stay on welfare do produce babies replacing the native population. But of course is of no use as they do not pay taxes. Many countries are at one step of collapse. yes media tries to hide it but if you know a bit about demographics and search statistics you will see what I mean.
"Do you consider a half Palestinian half Irish child part of the European population or do you have a one-drop rule ideology towards bi-racial children as well." first of islam is not a race is a toxic ideology just as feminism is. Second not all palestinians are muslims. I have been to israel and there are still 20% that are christians although the muslims try to exterminate them and the jews do not care. And I do not care about the race of the baby as long as it respects the laws of countries and finds work instead of staying on welfare.

RobertBobert said:


Well, I just did not expect the show to raise the issue of the gender's relationship in this way. At first it was an allusion to the institution of marriage, but now it is something like "an uprising of heterosexuality against androgynous asexual antiutopia." It's complicated.

AnthonyTLA said:

People who hate on Kokoro for breaking the promise are completely missing the context behind it.
1. They were in the middle of a mission. Do people think she should reject Futoshi right before a battle and probably get themselves killed due to conflict? Futosh pressured her into making that promise by choosing the completely wrong time and place
2. When she made that promise, she didn't even know that the partner switch was an option

She could have been more sensitive to Futosh's feelings but hating on Kokoro is ridiculous especially given that their environment couldn't be less ideal for learning how to navigate situations like these. Kokoro apologized and a person shouldn't be labelled a thot or bad person for one mistake. Letting one broken promise prevent you from seeing the good in someone is exactly the hurdle that Mitsuru had to overcome. If Mitsuru could forgive Hiro without knowing that his memories were erased, why can't people forgive Kokoro?

Aeoness said:
My favorite quota from this episode is this;

''Did you two just try to stick your bodies together?''

I believe, Squad 13 and Klaxosaur Princess (001) will team up against PapApesNines. After all, they need machines to rebuild earth.

Also, that Hringhorni ship, I hope they don't go pull a Noah's Ark trope.

Draconix814 said:

I think its more of a rise of sexuality versus androgynous asexual anti-utopia more than anything else, but we can now safely call Dr. FranXX's experiment a gender instrumentality project.

QWERTYFish25 said:


I may be a little biased coming from a historically disadvantaged group from a country that has notoriously bad racial relations but I would like some links to these issues. They sound painfully familiar to what a few people with very dubious ideas of race have said in recent years. What with birth rates, Shari'a law supposedly being passed in the midwest, etc. I will be honest; I seriously doubt the severity everything you said regarding muslims and that last bit about welfare is usually found in the mouthes of of our most extreme political groups. But since I have no ties to Europeans apart from my country being a former colony of the British empire (Us) I will cede the floor and review what you're saying. If you will please send me some data regarding these issues.

Also I.mentioned ethnicity and not simply to avoid the misunderstanding. Since wr know Islam is a religion and not a racial group.

Naudri said:
This episode was intense. As much as all the Kokoro Support/hate on this thread.

First of all, I'm impressed on some people here. These people seem to give no value to promises, which makes me sad.

To me, Kokoro's a THOT. Not because she "NTRed" Fattyboy because technically, she didn't. However, she has all attributes to be one.
First of all, she didn't give a proper response to Fatty's feelings in the "divided dorms" episode.
Then she promised Fatty she'd be his Franxx partner forever. A promise she broke like the scene after, showing her promises have 0 value. Also, being the franXX's partner has nothing to do with love. We should also consider the fact she was already thinking on having kids even BEFORE the promise (she got caught with the book by Mitsuru the first time they met in the greenhouse), so it gets worse when people defending her saying"yes" to the promise was because she was forced and "didn't know what she wanted", because she knew. She even admits it in that episode! (Ep. 11, 18:34 : I've betrayed and hurt someone, too")
Which leads to the last point, she doesn't care for others. When she switched partners, she caused a disruption in the team. Not only Fatty, but even her matching with Mitsuru was unstable at first, and after that, things have been kind of wierd inside the team.

I actually don't give a damn about characters (in terms of "shipping" and love affairs). After all, it's a fictional story, it won't cause any harm on me in the real world, and if the people behind the anime think it's good to create characters this way, good for them. It will surely make the series interesting.
However, I do care about how people react to that. And seeing people accept and back up liars and untrustful people, even if they're fictional characters, worries me a lot.

Alpenglow said:

Thanks for explaining. English is not my mother tongue so it is difficult for me to elaborate on these types of topics.

QWERTYFish25 said:


I think this was the guy who also said anime was a mistake. The idea is how rigid the relationships in anime are. The main girl and boy are always establish and they hardly go past even acknowledging feelings for one another which then are barely romantic but more goofy than anything else. They follow stale patterns reenact worn out tropes and lines that you can finding countless shows and in the same order as the others. Sex seems to be forbidden kissing is a rarity and the "romance" is always framed as "true love" or "love at first sight." Sexually is often framed as impure or perverted and always played for laughs but almost never legitimate curiosity or a valid faucet of human interaction. Even here Mitsuru and Kokoro "love each other", that phrase is pretty much tossed around almost to insulate the deed from criticism.

People are calling Kokoro a whore because she didn't follow the down the beaten down path of sticking with her implied pair. Implied being they work together, not mutual affection, sexual interest or concentrated longing to be with one another, simply because "you're MY girl because the genre or medium (through echoed precedence) says so". People claim Futoshi got "cucked" he was "cheated on" you can't be cheated on without an actual relationship and you can't have a relationship without a mutual understanding said or otherwise. That promise wasn't even romantic, she "promised" to be his partner in occupation not affairs beyond that but even that was an appeasement, a pacifier to prevent hurting her friend (and yes, she considers him a friend) but that's just it he is nothing more than a friend. She has no obligation to engage him romantically just because his feelings towards her were greater than a simple friendship. I feel for dude, I really do but this is life he has to move on. Sadly in this setting there aren't exactly plenty of fish but as for the audience the obsessiveness of Kokoro's "betrayal" is...disturbing.

It speaks to the inability to accept the fluidity of human relationships. This is the one thing that turns me off with Japanese anime. From the romance, to the archetypes to the villains, there's rarely any middle ground or acknowledgment of such. Even when a middle ground or duality of morality is present it is often a straw-man and it is countered by an equally bland ideology or speech. No thought, no consideration or concern of transforming into the thing you battle against.

QWERTYFish25 said:
Dude, mayne she didn't see it as romantic. They fucking work together. You're calling her a hoe because she felt like trying something else? It's really not that serious. The dude stay annoying her with vague ass promises that ignore reality or her feelings for that matter. What if she was ordered to switch with someone else? Would she have been a hoe then? What happens if he had an issue like Hiro and could.no longer fight with her? People got every right to do what makes them happy. No flimsy ass child promise is gonna change that. She was given the opportunity and ran with it she wasted no time going for it. Staying with Futoshi while harboring feelings for Mitsuru would have been a disaster on wheels. Lets not kid ourselves life is way more complicated than teenaged promises and and one-sided "love". That's my girl. Get that plumbing, bae.

evoniee said:
She is prioritising her personal feeling rather than her partner she is an asshole cause breaking the promise.
But she is not wrong, as mitsuru and ikuno cant paired as partner again, eventually their team need to rearrange the couple.
This topic already outdated and dead.
Im still feeling sorry for futoshi.

Ligerleon89 said:


That's what I've been saying and I had more than one reason to say it. Futoshi will be okay, it's not exactly that complicated. The sooner he grows up to realize, the better it is for him to move on. Heck, he may need to be their support for the coming conflict. I don't know, but he does need to overcome and be stronger for it. And I didn't have to say anything derogative.

Naudri said:

First, I'm not hating on Kokoro. I just state that, to me, she's a THOT. Nothing else. I have no emotional attachement to a fictional character. For example, I can say that Deadpool is an a**hole, and I won't be wrong nor hate him, right? Here's the same. That character is a portrait of some cheater/liar person.

I've given my reasons as for why do I flag her as a THOT/b*tch or however you call liars/cheaters/people you cannot trust. And it's pretty simple: because she's a liar that has no problems when it comes to play with other people's feelings, lie or break promises.

You guys talk a lot about inexperience, but it's actually when you're inexperienced that you deal with stuff with truth, honesty and faithfullness, as you don't know what happens. Futoshi asked her to be her partner, not her girlfriend. If she understood it as a romantic declaration, she should have said that she couldn't promise that. And regarding the promise, not knowing partner switching was an option isn't an excuse either to break the promise like that. Even less when her "petition" is purely based on selfish intentions (she likes Mitsuoshi). At least, that's what I've always thought.



PS: Has she ever said a simple sorry to Fattyboy? Even if it's just for lying. Think about it.

QWERTYFish25 said:

I may be a little biased coming from a historically disadvantaged group from a country that has notoriously bad racial relations but I would like some links to these issues. They sound painfully familiar to what a few people with very dubious ideas of race have said in recent years. What with birth rates, Shari'a law supposedly being passed in the midwest, etc. I will be honest; I seriously doubt the severity everything you said regarding muslims and that last bit about welfare is usually found in the mouthes of of our most extreme political groups. But since I have no ties to Europeans apart from my country being a former colony of the British empire (Us) I will cede the floor and review what you're saying. If you will please send me some data regarding these issues.

Also I.mentioned ethnicity and not simply to avoid the misunderstanding. Since wr know Islam is a religion and not a racial group.

Katojana said:


Okay here's the deal. I'm from germany, one of the countries hit the hardest with the refugee crisis of 2015-2017
Did problems arise? Yes. Quite a lot actually. BUT it has nothing to do with only one ethnicity.
Comparedly there have been more crimes by people who are against refugees than the refugees themselves (attacks against refugees, burning down Refugee centers etc).
There is a gigantic fearmongering by groups and political parties (
Identitarian movement, AfD in germany, FPÖ in austria, literal Nazis going through the streets) which overblows the whole issue. Are there criminal refugees (besides some illegal habitations)? Yes of course. But there are criminals everywhere.
It didnt get unsafer and there is NO sharia law even close to being legislated...
That's just the fearmongering by interestgroups. The problem is, you cant argue against feelings with facts.
"The facts state that the crime rates even lowered over the past years"
"Yes but I feel unsafer"
"Well but the chart says..."
"Muh feelings"

And in times of fake news, its very easy to find articles and stuff that are completely fake but are believed anyways.