One Piece Chapter 877 Discussion

TheLonelyCynic said:
After Pedro's sacrifice, I feel like Carrot will definitely join the crew.

lihle808 said:
nope jinbei has already decided to join them making it ten ( what luffy aimed for, just like shanks).

jal90 said:

And last but not least, Carrot. Not only for the new motivation and inherited will this means for her, but also to tackle something that could be potentially problematic about her attitude. During this whole arc, even in dangerous situations, she has consistently taken things lightly and been enthusiastic about everything. Innocence and enthusiasm are not bad, but when Pedro first tried to blow himself up she acted like it was nothing and admired his plan. That was probably too much, and Pedro already told her to take things more seriously when they started the journey. She underestimates the gravity of things and needs a burst of realization like this to understand where she's getting into, specially given her dream of exploring the world beyond Zou.

While this scene was epic and sad as hell and Pedro takes the spotlight for his -very foreshadowed- actions, I feel that this chapter and specifically the emotional weight of this part is more about Carrot and her necessary growth. After all, Pedro is just repeating ideas we already knew, heard from him or could very easily assume, but Carrot is suffering essential character development right here. Sort of a sudden tragic backstory.

Isterio said:


This is based upon the stipulation that all of your mentioned characteristics are construed by Oda as flaws that require development on Carrot´s part.
I´m not one that enjoys pointing fingers but feel obligated when the majority tends to overlook flaws in the fabric of storytelling in favor of enjoyment.
As of now, Carrot is very akin in character to Luffy, which is befitting of her age and implied upbrining. At least from my POV Carrot comes off as a sheltered teenager whose competence originates in her natural talents alone.
Basicly a genderbend Luffy without any of the experiences.
As you rightfully pointed out. It´d be favorable for her to mature through the feasible demise of a fellow comerade and "get a taste of the real world" since it´d be befitting development in conjunction with her ambitions.
But, this isn´t how Oda writes his characters and pressumingly is unwanted by the majority of the fanbase.
Most authors write their characters from point A to point B to point C and change them throughout their journey. Oda on the other hand has the at times infuriating tendency of having his characters exclusively introduced at point B, then arbitrary introduce their point A stage to explain how they reached point B and never have them mature to point C to exploit their quirks indefinitely. The most prominent example being Luffy´s development after the death of Ace. He developed the resolve to enjoy life again after losing one of his family members for the sake of his living family . Then announced that he´ll have to mature and surpass every obstacle possible to avoid such a tragedy to happen ever again and started behavlng like the idiot buffoon he always was.

In retrospect, to me, thi is one of the worst moments in One Piece:


Oda realized his mistake and pointed it out to the audience building it up as something great.
This moment is garbage, It´s the acknowledgement of the author, that he doesn´t care or know how to develop his main character or structure the plot without repeating himself. If he fails to have Luffy change even for the slightest, why should Carrot be the exception. (sarcasm on)Following Oda´s track record it´s far more possible that she´ll join the Strawhats and then have some traumatic backstory revealed about how humans ate Carrots parents because they didn´t distinguish between them and animals and she was happy to find out how Humans can be good people too, just to make a redundant statement on racism.(sarcasm off)

jal90 said:

Carrot does not need to perform a big change.

jal90 said:

Actually, she can still be enthusiastic and naive while exploring things. Just not in the level of this arc, where she didn't seem to fully realize the implications of what she was on and the actual danger they were facing. It seemed like it was all a game for her. I mean, and I bring the example again, Pedro tried to kill himself and she acted like it was all okay because nothing had happened.

Actually I think I didn't explain myself well because I don't want anything drastic that completely twists our views on the character to happen. Just something that makes her get some sense of what's going on and the gravity of their situation. You don't need to change her essence and appeal for that.

jal90 said:

Of course this is all me reading further than what's been shown and maybe Oda reverts this the next chapter, but it seems like the logical step to this chapter's event to me.

Isterio said:
I think Carrot can have her Kawai Desu moments and be a cunning badass on the battlefield. But the notion of having his characters dicking around during a crucial earth shattering fight is just Oda´s formula at this point and we cannot expect him to wander too far off from that.
Also as I added retroactively. If he wanted her to be more serious Jack´s attack would have been sufficient as a development kickstarter. The only excuse I can see is the event not leading to any casualities.

WyNdZ said:
I really hope he is dead because if people survive after doing such ridiculous things it makes the reader not feel any suspense. Pedro isn't even a really important character like Jimbei is so it shouldn't be a big deal. It would also give Carrot some good motivation probably and Luffy will probably lose his shit and will come back to avenge his nakama one day.

Man I really love One Piece, it may not be my favourite manga but it's up there and unlike most of the great manga it at least comes out regularly.

Isterio said:


Even if all the fanbase wanted that, Oda isn´t the author to do that sort of thing



I don´t think I missinterpreted you and wholeheartedly agree with your assesment, I just want to point out that historically speaking this just isn´t how Oda writes. He´s no Ken Follet or George R.R Martin he´s more like Dan Brown, without the bullshit. Actually I´d go that far to say that Kishimoto who I´d deem closest in terms of wiritng style to Oda aside from Toriyama did a far better job at having his characters grow and mature. I don´t want Luffy to become a different person but I don´t need chapter one Luffy in chapter 1200. I think Carrot can have her Kawai Desu moments and be a cunning badass on the battlefield. But the notion of having his characters dicking around during a crucial earth shattering fight is just Oda´s formula at this point and we cannot expect him to wander too far off from that.
Also as I added retroactively. If he wanted her to be more serious Jack´s attack would have been sufficient as a development kickstarter. The only excuse I can see is the event not leading to any casualities.



Pretty much, but I also think you set your expectations to high.
At the most there are 1-2 chapters of grief we can expect and then everyone reverting to their old self.