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| Chamber's logic is what you'd expect from a fascist military state; it's us or them, we are superior, they are lesser, etc, etc. It's couched in what feels like sound logic but is actually flawed at it's premise: like any ideologically-driven argument, it works backwards from the conclusion. In this case, that conclusion is that the two species cannot coexist. Let's get something clear about civilization: all of the things that we think make humans special, we are increasingly finding in the animal world as well. Primates and some birds using tools, whales creating the equivalent of whale pop music, back to primates again with their ability to understand a simple monetary system (including the appearance of prostitution), to dolphins engaging in recreational sex, octopi solving math problems--it's quickly becoming apparent that the only thing that makes us special is that we are the species that has all of those talents as a package deal. It's amusing to see how many assumptions are being made about the Hideauze; that they've thrown away their humanity (for some arbitrary definition of humanity), that they've given up language (where did we find that out?), that at this point they are just murderous animals. We know literally nothing about the Hideauze on Earth aside from what was revealed in that video file. We don't know how intelligent they are, we don't know what if any societal structures they have, we don't know how they communicate, it's obviously we've only just found out some information on their life cycle. Chamber's actual knowledge about the ecology of the Hideauze is a blank slate as far as we know. Even if the Earth Hideauze are just animals, Chamber has no way of knowing if it is comparing the species equivalent of Africanized bees (space-evolved Hideauze) to less aggressive western honey bees (Earth-bound Hideauze.) Chamber's approach is, summed up, to kill them now because there will be a war at some point in the future because that is the foregone conclusion in its programming. |
Nayrael said: Fai said: But that's the thing isn't it - its robot logic. It does not JUSTIFY the war. It just calculates that its needed for your survival. And in the end this is no different than a more extreme version of Cold War/ Oh dear lord... just what makes you think that Hideauze WANT to live alongside humans and not slaughter every last one of them? Even the pacifistic Earth Hideauze had to be fooled into thinking that there areno humans on Gargantia... to the point that not even the smallest sound was allowed to be made. You can't even communicate with the Hideauze because they abandoned the idea of communication. They have become animals through and through and you don't need Chamber to tell you that. And don't go comparing this to Cold War. NATO and USSR could negotiate and could achieve peace. The Hideauze want to slaughter every last one of the un-evolved and Alliance became a bunch of loonies that is only interested if defending against the Hideauze. This conflict has no chances of beign resolved in any way but one of the two species getting annihilated. It is already too late for both the Hideauze and the Alliance. And no, the AI's are not in command of humans. If they were, they'd slaughter them because they'd view humans not only as unnecessary but also as an obstacle in achieving advancement. there is no indication that the hideauze are going out of their way to slaughter all humans because humans are unevolved. you can theorize various reasons as to why they might want to do so, but at this point the only known reason for wanting to slaughter humans is because humans are slaughtering them. as far as i could tell, the original intent was to explore/expand into the universe with their new form (first hybrid dude did not look militant at all). then shit happened. there is very little know about hideaseu communication. also animals communicate. the last comment on the AI's is confusing to me. you're assuming that humans are an unnecessary obstacle to AI's achieving advancement. that is a big assumption. also comment on Fai's justification comment. i think it's important to define what you mean by justice-which is a vague word. i have a vague idea of what you're trying to say but i think that people are sometimes caught between two 'unjustified' choices. in which case it would be best to choose the one that does least harm to you and whoever you consider your 'people', which is dubbed as the more justified one -> justified choice. also i have no 'general' concern to wiping out a species. killing all the insects in my dorm would be fucking awesome. species being wiped out is a concern in the real world because the ecological effects. genocide is bad because you're destroying persons/humans. whether you consider killing the hideauzeu bad depends on 1) whether you still consider them person/humans 2) animal rights stuff etc which i don't know about but is there somewhere..... anyways, i basically agree that Hideauze/GA are fucked and one of them must die off. they've just spend too many years evolving/technologizing, regardless of whether it's self motivated or in response to other forces, for the purposes for destroying each other to turn back. on the other hand, there still may be hope for the people and whalesquids on earth. *edit: for some reason this comment ended up being really long. lol. sry |
lovelyluvluvJun 10, 2013 3:16 PM
| Maybe those cult ppl were also after the treasures and my guess Pinion gonna provoke Ledo to fight them.. |
| Keep moving forward |
| Wow shit's getting intense, that colonel is back and the group of people he's got with him looks suspicious as hell. And it was really interesting to see Chamber's argument for them to continue fighting. |
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| As an observer, I find the two sides of the Hideauze situation flaming each other laughable. Nothing quite as entertaining as following the forums, especially on MAL. The argument seems to polarize around the humanity of the Hideauze, which differs between people. Some argue that due to their biology, they are human, while others suggest that their inability to demonstrate civilization is clear proof of their being non-human, and this is the same argument from the show itself. Some people are even going out of their way to describe the work of biology in a work of fiction through real world biology, so that is both interesting and amusing. At this point, it becomes a difference between personal values, so describing a right or wrong side is completely mindless. Of course, you guys probably knew this already. As for the issue with the good commander, it would be very difficult to see the plot proceeding in any direction but conflict, simply because of the lack of momentum otherwise. Most viewers probably expected the return of the Galactic Alliance at some point, but were unsure of what would result. One of the more interesting theories that I saw while scrolling was scruffykiwi's idea of the commander's mech minus the commander. I think that would be quite interesting in further polarizing the conflicting ideals demonstrated in the series, and by extension, the forums. Of course, knowing who the scriptwriter is immediately throws any chance of a predictable ending into the gutter, so go figure. Gen Urobuchi probably wanted people to think about what it means to be human, and I think that he has succeeded in that aspect. |
| Ugh....thought I think it leans towards Kugel vs Ledo..... if the two seriously started a battle couldn't they potentially well.....wipe out Gargantia with their fight (cuz they're using such advanced tech)? <-<;;; Man I have no idea what's going to happen now anymore.... |
(My avatar is an original creation-please don't take it) |
| Not bad :X wonder how they're going to end this in 2 episodes |
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| LoL, will Chamber AI and the Kugel's mech AI even allow them to fight? They have already indentified eachother as allied craft, and we know Ledo does not have full control over his mech. |
linchpin said: Oh boy, when I look at people like you I'm not sure whether to pity them or just spit at them and move on.RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. The rest is just bullshit stemming from the assumption that the Hideauze are no longer sentient (and predatory! LMAO) and thus is pointless to discuss. No wait, I have to laugh at one more part. "The Evolvers were the instigators of war, as proven by their conscious act of transforming into an aggressive predator," Haha. You're deluded, man. |
Ii tenki desu ne... |
wenchance said: It's all about ethics and what each individual views as moral. I can see both sides of this argument. Both in the show, and on the forums. But essentially, this science run rampant. (And I'm lumping technology into that group) The evolvers were essentially created through science without humanistic direction. If proper ethics and law were applied to such scientific development, the evolvers would exist. That's why scientists built that facility so "science could be free". After that, it became a battle of ideology but on a much larger scale. Diplomacy failed somewhere down the road and the ideological war became a real war. I'm not saying science is bad. The scientific revolution was probably one of the greatest things to happen to mankind, but without rule of law and an understanding of what is right and wrong, science can get nasty and lead to disturbing results. Yes, it is a conflict of ethics and laws. There are good and bad laws. Sometimes you have to violate the bad ones, those that hold back progress. And it's amazing how this conflict is already there, in our reality. I'm quite happy to see 30% of people supporting the Evolvers' way. I didn't expect that much support. Here's an interesting article: Transhumanism Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal at fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.[1] Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as study the ethical matters involved in developing and using such technologies. They predict that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label "posthuman".[1] |
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| I have a feeling that Kugel has found something similar to what Ledo did in episode 9 and has come to the same (flawed) conclusion that Chamber has. I hope Ledo comes to the different conclusion. Amazing episode. Pinion is digging his own grave. I feel assured now that he will be the next to die. |
| Let's go bowling. |
linchpin said: RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. Such simplification. Such ignorance of history. |
| Let's go bowling. |
| To think that he killed those pirate without hesitation, it was strange for him to felt emotional to this human like creature. oh wait, pirate have no soul xD Evolution VS technology. Sorry, my brain is no really good, both look the same to me. I don't understand why the fight must continue. |
MorningGloryJun 11, 2013 5:50 AM
StopDropAndBowl said: linchpin said: RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. Such simplification. Such ignorance of history. Give me an example where religion promoted progress and I'll give you two for how it hindered it. Religion was only useful in prehistoric societies where it increased group cohesion. Now it's just a burden, a source of innumerable conflicts. "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion" -- Steven Weinberg |
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linchpin said: Give me an example where religion promoted progress and I'll give you two for how it hindered it. Religion was only useful in prehistoric societies where it increased group cohesion. Now it's just a burden, a source of innumerable conflicts. Did you even read my reply? I said I was referring to spirituality. The ability for humans to emotionally bond with the image of a superior being or the ability to feel the supernatural. And before you get carried away, look at the context in which I was referring to this. What do religious affairs in modern history have to do with the biological evolution of humans alongside other animals? And those who are desperately proclaiming that the current Hideauze are sentient and that the CU is the genocidal epitome of evil: routing out nonexistent rotten agendas and expressing false sympathy seems to make you people feel smart. It would help if some of you stopped masturbating your egos. I know you're doing it. Again, the CU fascism, militarism, and selective breeding that we currently see are merely byproducts of a death match for which the Evolvers hold primary responsibility. |
tealcactusJun 11, 2013 9:42 AM
| What's the sudden problem with killing humans? Didn't Ledo kill the pirates at the start of the series? And if Kugel was on earth all this time, wouldn't Chamber have been able to sense and locate him? |
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StopDropAndBowl said: linchpin said: RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. Such simplification. Such ignorance of history. The truth is ignorance? I'd say believing in a dude sitting on a cloud controlling your life is ignorance, but hey, who's judging. Talking about that, the very BELIEF in higher power limits us. Need I to recite a whole freaking theory of economics and how IT WAS STALLED for FEW HUNDRED YEARS in western world because of religion? Or how religion is the roots of anti-antisemitism? How about people who burned for simply saying that earth is not the center of the universe? Religion is cancer, it burns civilizations, stalls advancement and brainwashes children. And if we go into more cynnical and less emotion-based view, any religion is a corporation with head of religion as CEO - and the main focus of a corporation is profit. However unlike normal corporations who rely on technology(and even those stall technological advancement), religions are the corporation solely based on belief as commodity essentially selling nothing for something(mostly money). Its not at the degree it was during the middle ages(when they literally allowed you to pay for your sins with gold), but its still an archaic thing based solely on our brain's inability to grasp more advanced concepts of our pointless existence. . Nickienator said: What's the sudden problem with killing humans? Didn't Ledo kill the pirates at the start of the series? You must have missed, like, 4?5? 6? episodes in between. linchpin said: StopDropAndBowl said: linchpin said: RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. Such simplification. Such ignorance of history. Give me an example where religion promoted progress and I'll give you two for how it hindered it. Religion was only useful in prehistoric societies where it increased group cohesion. Now it's just a burden, a source of innumerable conflicts. "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion" -- Steven Weinberg Well the only case of religion being beneficial is churches being the root of modern universities and education systems. Of course even if so, religion ultimately turned against what they created and began burning scientific minds for heresy. |
AhenshihaelJun 11, 2013 9:16 AM
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Fai said: StopDropAndBowl said: linchpin said: RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. Such simplification. Such ignorance of history. The truth is ignorance? I'd say believing in a dude sitting on a cloud controlling your life is ignorance, but hey, who's judging. Talking about that, the very BELIEF in higher power limits us. Need I to recite a whole freaking theory of economics and how IT WAS STALLED for FEW HUNDRED YEARS in western world because of religion? Or how religion is the roots of anti-antisemitism? How about people who burned for simply saying that earth is not the center of the universe? Religion is cancer, it burns civilizations, stalls advancement and brainwashes children. You have clearly never experienced religion or any form of spirituality for yourself. Either because you live a sheltered life, or you were brought up by theophobic parents. Fear and denouncement of the unknown. Simple. Takuan_Soho said: I have an answer for that though. The Alliance Gate can only bridge any one point in space to another, the initial gate they formed took them from Earth to where the Hidauze are now. When the Hideauze followed, the Alliance was forced to gate again to an unknown third location, where they slowly rebuilt their forces. The reason they are attacking the Hideauze is that they want to return to Earth, but they have to go through the Hideauze to do so. When the Alliance was disengaging the Gate, for a brief moment the initial gateway to earth was open and that was why both Ledo and Kugel ended up there. How's that? Holy mother of potatoes I think you're right! At least about the unknown third location. We know that they used a wormhole to portal to the Hideauze's nest, which is presumably where they were first engaged by the Hideauze. After escaping and building up forces they returned for a second attack, but failed spectacularly as we saw. This raises some questions however as to why they are returning to the nest. How far apart are the second and third locations? Short enough that Hideauze from the nest can reach them but in smaller numbers? If so, why was the distance made so short? Are there any human settlements left to salvage from the second location? Alternatively, how fast are the Hideauze able to travel? Judging by the behavior of the whalesquid, most stay near the nest, however they are capable of moving in large numbers and the limits of their domain are undefined. I'm not sure returning to Earth was part of their plan because Chamber mentions in EP1 that the existence of Earth has only been suggested in records (in other words, neither completely unmentioned (no intentional cover ups) nor clearly presented as an alternative course). |
tealcactusJun 11, 2013 10:20 AM
Takuan_Soho said: Nickienator said: What's the sudden problem with killing humans? Didn't Ledo kill the pirates at the start of the series? And if Kugel was on earth all this time, wouldn't Chamber have been able to sense and locate him? Hush, hush. We aren't looking for consistency here. Once you start thinking that way you will be wondering how exactly two different people going on two different trajectories just happened to arrive at the same point in space and time which just happened to be the one inhabitable planet in the universe. So, turn that logic circuit off or you are just asking for a world of hurt! I have an answer for that though. The Alliance Gate can only bridge any one point in space to another, the initial gate they formed took them from Earth to where the Hidauze are now. When the Hideauze followed, the Alliance was forced to gate again to an unknown third location, where they slowly rebuilt their forces. The reason they are attacking the Hideauze is that they want to return to Earth, but they have to go through the Hideauze to do so. When the Alliance was disengaging the Gate, for a brief moment the initial gateway to earth was open and that was why both Ledo and Kugel ended up there. How's that? First words of the first episode: HorribleSubs said: The long age of drifting ended, and humanity found a home in the wide reaches of the galaxy. We named it Avalon: The beautiful paradise. Behold a shining utopia, born of our pioneering spirit and scientific mind. This is your homeland. All 470,000,000 citizens of Avalon hail your bravery and dedication, and know your names as honored soldiers. All hail the Galactic Alliance of Humankind, and its eternal future. Humanity's endless challenge begins here. But you must never forget that a merciless evil lurks in the depths of this cruel universe. We must end the threat of the Hideauze, who would hinder our journey onward! We must not allow these lower life forms to hold back humanity's race to the future! Stand, heroes, for this is the time of our greatest trial. Forget not the countless lives lost, nor our future comrades, yet still in grave danger. Ceasing REM Hypnosis Education for all crew. What I get from that: The Alliance has drifted in space for a long time. Finally they build Avalon, that huge space station. People might forget about the threat of Hideauze if not reminded constantly. Then they proceed to attack the Hideauze "who would hinder their journey onward". |
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morrownight said: Fai said: StopDropAndBowl said: linchpin said: RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. Such simplification. Such ignorance of history. The truth is ignorance? I'd say believing in a dude sitting on a cloud controlling your life is ignorance, but hey, who's judging. Talking about that, the very BELIEF in higher power limits us. Need I to recite a whole freaking theory of economics and how IT WAS STALLED for FEW HUNDRED YEARS in western world because of religion? Or how religion is the roots of anti-antisemitism? How about people who burned for simply saying that earth is not the center of the universe? Religion is cancer, it burns civilizations, stalls advancement and brainwashes children. You have clearly never experienced religion or any form of spirituality for yourself. Either because you live a sheltered life, or you were brought up by theophobic parents. Fear and denouncement of the unknown. Simple. Oh the hilarity of the hypocrisy of religious person trying to call out others on fear of unknown. Considering religion instead of allowing for exploration of the unknown, just goes "that guy with long white beard above us did it" goes back to lynching people, condemning abortion or cloning as well as demonizing lgbt community. |
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Fai said: morrownight said: Fai said: StopDropAndBowl said: linchpin said: RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. Such simplification. Such ignorance of history. The truth is ignorance? I'd say believing in a dude sitting on a cloud controlling your life is ignorance, but hey, who's judging. Talking about that, the very BELIEF in higher power limits us. Need I to recite a whole freaking theory of economics and how IT WAS STALLED for FEW HUNDRED YEARS in western world because of religion? Or how religion is the roots of anti-antisemitism? How about people who burned for simply saying that earth is not the center of the universe? Religion is cancer, it burns civilizations, stalls advancement and brainwashes children. You have clearly never experienced religion or any form of spirituality for yourself. Either because you live a sheltered life, or you were brought up by theophobic parents. Fear and denouncement of the unknown. Simple. Oh the hilarity of the hypocrisy of religious person trying to call out others on fear of unknown. Considering religion instead of allowing for exploration of the unknown, just goes "that guy with long white beard above us did it" goes back to lynching people, condemning abortion or cloning as well as demonizing lgbt community. I'm not going to join this argument but I would like to say 2 things: 1.) If you guys veer off the topic of this thread and into a whole religion vs atheism battle, the forum moderator is going to have to step in again and it'll all be for nothing anyways because you can't change someone's point of view by enforcing your own. You're just angering each other and the crowd of spectators look on. 2.) Your OPINION does not equate truth. Just because you believe in something and you think you have enough facts to back it up, doesn't automatically make your opinion the one and only singular truth. It's not all about you and what you believe. There are billions of humans on this Earth, each with their own individuality and lives, each grown up in different environments with varied experiences. Not everyone is going to think like you, act like you, or want to be like you. If you believe religion to be a ridiculous sham, by all means, go on ahead. If you have faith or believe that religion has/is helpful, then by all means, go on ahead. Let us not press others to accept our opinions as fact through sarcasm, insults, and etc. This is an anime discussion forum, not a debating arena. If you wish to continue your discussion, please do so on your own time and place. |
SpiraiJun 11, 2013 10:36 AM
Fai said: Oh the hilarity of the hypocrisy of religious person trying to call out others on fear of unknown. Considering religion instead of allowing for exploration of the unknown, just goes "that guy with long white beard above us did it" goes back to lynching people, condemning abortion or cloning as well as demonizing lgbt community. So you admit that you've never experienced religion? Regardless of what you may think of it, the peaceful practice of religion is not a crime. Religion gets a bad rap because people have institutionalized it and from time to time utilized it to wage ideological wars. There is no reason to derive from this that religion is the sole culprit for such conflict. Also you seem to be unable to acknowledge anything beyond what is evidenced by recorded history. I realize it's pointless to talk about spirituality to you, but all I want to say this: calling you out on fear of the unknown may not be sufficient to vindicate religion, but realize that by the same logic your conviction in denouncing religion is equally baseless. |
tealcactusJun 11, 2013 10:51 AM
Takuan_Soho said: morrownight said: Religion gets a bad rap because people have institutionalized it and from time to time utilized it to wage ideological wars. I am agnostic, never have nor will "get" religion, that said the more I study history and religion the more I have realized that 1) most of those "ideological" wars were actually secular wars dressed up in religion, and 2) since the enlightenment there has been a sustained propaganda war that has tried to paint all that is wrong with humanity as being the result of "irrational" religion, including a great deal of lies that have been passed off as fact in history books and have only recently been re-examined. I won't get into a long debate about the authenticity of my 2 statements, because as it has been pointed out this isn't the forum for it, however I will end my participation in pointing out that the American Civil War, WWI, WWII, and many of the most egregious human rights abuse of the past century had no religious component to them. They were purely secular. If that is the result of "reason", then maybe we need a little irrationality. Exactly my point; spirituality itself has nothing to do with why people are fighting each other. People go to war or commit acts of violence for all kinds of reasons. But anyway I'll stop here as well. |
| This series has attracted so many would be activists it's such a joke. |
Takuan_Soho said: Chamber did not have "access" to the video from earth until Ledo authorized it. So based on what he knew then Earth would seem mythical. That such information did exist suggests that the Alliance leadership knew very well that Earth existed and was necessary. This is by no means a perfect theory, I can spot several gaps in it (including my eternal one of that if that really was the last chance of the Alliance, they gave up too easily), but right now due to contradictions in the narration, every theory seems to have gaps in it. For a plot oriented person like me it's the thing about this show that has been driving me crazy. I see what you mean. Come to think of it, there's no reason why they would have lost any records from that time period. I remember after they saw that they couldn't win they called the retreat and said not to "waste any more energy". I don't know if this has anything to do with their plans, but it seems likely that any saved energy would go towards another ambush effort? |
Takuan_Soho said: linchpin said: What I get from that: The Alliance has drifted in space for a long time. Finally they build Avalon, that huge space station. People might forget about the threat of Hideauze if not reminded constantly. Then they proceed to attack the Hideauze "who would hinder their journey onward". Have we seen Avalon? Outside of the Hypnosis training? Do we know that the Alliance always tells the truth about the past? Well... Now I'm kinda confused. So you think there's no Avalon? That all the Alliance has is a fleet drifting in space? I admit, I also questioned the truthfulness of the REM hypnosis video before... But if we both question it, then we can work on even less facts to come up with our theories. We might as well dismiss the video from the citadel as manipulated. Then we would dismiss all information. And the only one remaining would be that there was ONE win-or-lose attack on the nest of Hideauze and the Alliance lost. Or we can accept both the video from Citadel and the REM hypnosis info as true. Aaah, I hope we will get some more info in these last 3 episodes! Because if we don't, we're never gonna stop speculating! |
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morrownight said: Exactly my point; spirituality itself has nothing to do with why people are fighting each other. People go to war or commit acts of violence for all kinds of reasons. But anyway I'll stop here as well. Yep. So to refer based on this to the current discussion: Here are 2 vocal groups of people: 1. Those who claim that it is necessary to kill those human-squids. They find the reason to do so. The same way as there were reasons for WWI and WWII and the wars at Vietnam, Iraq etc. THEY ARE AGGRESSORS. 2. Those who are supporting peace and ready to fight for it (in order to protect it, otherwise they would have been silent on that forum;) ). All those who fought in the same wars, after the aggressions was started. THEY ARE PROTECTORS. That's so nice that there are both of you (views) ;) Though, I would consider myself much closer to the 2nd party. I let you guys (from the 1st party) have your opinion. And if you come uninvited to my 'sea' to kill human-squids, I'll CRUSH YOU. Take my word. |
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Darklight0303 said: This series has attracted so many would be activists it's such a joke. Does it bother you? :P I have to say your one-liners are always pretty amusing to read. |
morrownight said: Darklight0303 said: This series has attracted so many would be activists it's such a joke. Does it bother you? :P I have to say your one-liners are always pretty amusing to read. No. I find the hypocrisy amusing. |
linchpin said: Takuan_Soho said: linchpin said: What I get from that: The Alliance has drifted in space for a long time. Finally they build Avalon, that huge space station. People might forget about the threat of Hideauze if not reminded constantly. Then they proceed to attack the Hideauze "who would hinder their journey onward". Have we seen Avalon? Outside of the Hypnosis training? Do we know that the Alliance always tells the truth about the past? Well... Now I'm kinda confused. So you think there's no Avalon? That all the Alliance has is a fleet drifting in space? I admit, I also questioned the truthfulness of the REM hypnosis video before... But if we both question it, then we can work on even less facts to come up with our theories. We might as well dismiss the video from the citadel as manipulated. Then we would dismiss all information. And the only one remaining would be that there was ONE win-or-lose attack on the nest of Hideauze and the Alliance lost. Or we can accept both the video from Citadel and the REM hypnosis info as true. Aaah, I hope we will get some more info in these last 3 episodes! Because if we don't, we're never gonna stop speculating! Already hypothesized few episodes back that AVALON is nothing but propaganda lie and that those "Sent to avalon" instead get killed since their "Term" of existence is up. It would fit with the whole utilitarian vibeof alliance - those about to expire in their capabilities are not worthy of existence. |
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Fai said: Already hypothesized few episodes back that AVALON is nothing but propaganda lie and that those "Sent to avalon" instead get killed since their "Term" of existence is up. It would fit with the whole utilitarian vibeof alliance - those about to expire in their capabilities are not worthy of existence. Now you're just pulling things out of your arse. I can disprove this right off the bat. 1. Ledo is still a teenager. There's no way he's at the end of his career. 2. Kugel is older than him. He hasn't been executed. I would bet he's been on Avalon before. Reproduced while he was there. 3. What good does it do for the leadership to kill off it's own soldiers? So they can waste more resources on bringing up the next generation of soldiers? |
morrownight said: Fai said: Already hypothesized few episodes back that AVALON is nothing but propaganda lie and that those "Sent to avalon" instead get killed since their "Term" of existence is up. It would fit with the whole utilitarian vibeof alliance - those about to expire in their capabilities are not worthy of existence. Now you're just pulling things out of your arse. I can disprove this right off the bat. 1. Ledo is still a teenager. There's no way he's at the end of his career. 2. Kugel is older than him. He hasn't been executed. I would bet he's been on Avalon before. Reproduced while he was there. 3. What good does it do for the leadership to kill off it's own soldiers? So they can waste more resources on bringing up the next generation of soldiers? and your whole post is not pulling things out of your ass? You bet it is considering you assume expiration date directly relies on their age. Next time please bring arguments, your faith's not enough, sadly. Expiration date can refer to anything starting with health condition and going to the mental stability(since there are signs Ledo has been becoming self aware and breaking away from brainwashing. ANd we know nothing about Kugel to make the assumptions you did. This is the last time I answer to your nonsense, please enjoy flamebaiting someone else, thank you for your time. |
AhenshihaelJun 11, 2013 1:54 PM
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Fai said: morrownight said: Fai said: Already hypothesized few episodes back that AVALON is nothing but propaganda lie and that those "Sent to avalon" instead get killed since their "Term" of existence is up. It would fit with the whole utilitarian vibeof alliance - those about to expire in their capabilities are not worthy of existence. Now you're just pulling things out of your arse. I can disprove this right off the bat. 1. Ledo is still a teenager. There's no way he's at the end of his career. 2. Kugel is older than him. He hasn't been executed. I would bet he's been on Avalon before. Reproduced while he was there. 3. What good does it do for the leadership to kill off it's own soldiers? So they can waste more resources on bringing up the next generation of soldiers? and your whole post is not pulling things out of your ass? You bet it is considering you assume expiration date directly relies on their age. Next time please bring arguments, your faith's not enough, sadly. This is the last time I answer to your nonsense, please enjoy flamebaiting someone else, thank you for your time. This is an argument. It's an appeal to reason. You would know what I'm talking about if you knew anything at all about the human life cycle (seriously this is common sense). Let me spell this out for you. The human body reaches its physical and mental peak around the age of 20-30, and there is a significant portion of people who do so in their 40s. As stated by Chamber in the first episode, Ledo has even proven himself to be a superior specimen among his peers, probably one of the reasons they want him to go to Avalon to reproduce and give birth to a healthy next generation. Does it all make sense now? |
tealcactusJun 11, 2013 2:13 PM
morrownight said: Fai said: Expiration date can refer to anything starting with health condition and going to the mental stability(since there are signs Ledo has been becoming self aware and breaking away from brainwashing. ANd we know nothing about Kugel to make the assumptions you did. Does it all make sense now? Yes, your assumptions, as Fai pointed out - that's what they are - assumptions, are making more sense now. You have backed it up by the theory of human life cycle. We don't even know how long those humans leave... That's great that you can build such broad assumptions. And it might be correct, if the writer of this story/anime decides so, but unless he does so... Just don't stop and find other versions - they are possible as well. See multipel solutions as many possible options. Don't limit yourself by firm believe that you know the only one correct answer. You don't. At least not with 100% certainty. |
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| Not liking Pinion anymore. I'm kinda siding with Chamber's explanation at the end of the episode on this one. |
| Stuff is getting real xD |
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| Obvious trap is obvious. |
| The last episode was very depressing. It hurts my feeling. Humans vs. Humans. And the last survivor Hideauze was killed.. by chamber!!! I hate it! I hate Ledo!!! You should've listen to Amy.. Gaaaaaa!!! I want to punch PINION!!! @_@ HE' s getting on my nerves!! |
Zel_Ezl said: The last episode was very depressing. It hurts my feeling. Humans vs. Humans. And the last survivor Hideauze was killed.. by chamber!!! I hate it! I hate Ledo!!! You should've listen to Amy.. Gaaaaaa!!! I want to punch PINION!!! @_@ HE' s getting on my nerves!! I guess its more less depressing if its Human vs alien scum. |
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