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Poll: Suisei no Gargantia Episode 11 Discussion


#1
Jun 16, 2013 6:27 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Well damn, Pinon sure is learning a lot this episode.


Oh and that queen from the previous episode is back. Nice episode. Dat cliffhanger.
 
#2
Jun 16, 2013 6:29 AM
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Interesting development. That lieutenant colonel a bit reminded me of Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now. That analysis by the robot implied he wanted to be deified by the local people. Wonder what his intention is. A pure sense of mission? Or a desire to dominate the thrid world?
 
#3
Jun 16, 2013 6:43 AM

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Queen had nicely animated entré
 
#4
Jun 16, 2013 7:11 AM

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I have been thinking since ep.5 why the pirates do not appear again... At least this episode shows that they did not forget about it either LOL
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
 
#5
Jun 16, 2013 8:53 AM

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So it seems Kuegel never went outside. Damn the way these guys convert people....join us or die.
 
#6
Jun 16, 2013 9:09 AM

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bastek66 said:
Queen had nicely animated entré

Wow that was cool
 
#7
Jun 16, 2013 10:26 AM
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Gargantia is the target. This is getting more and more interesting.
 
#8
Jun 16, 2013 10:27 AM
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eminagnam said:
Interesting development. That lieutenant colonel a bit reminded me of Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now. That analysis by the robot implied he wanted to be deified by the local people. Wonder what his intention is. A pure sense of mission? Or a desire to dominate the thrid world?



what im thinking. now he's off to spread more propaganda of sorts to the gargantia.

i like where this is going
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#9
Jun 16, 2013 10:27 AM

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THe pirate queen is bloody late.
 
Jun 16, 2013 10:28 AM

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Nice epi, this is a very solid anime. ^^ I liked how the focus isn't on that "Hideous are humans" reveal and the story is expanding in other directions.

4/5
 
Jun 16, 2013 10:29 AM

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Easy to see where this is going, Don't kill your waifu Ledo!!

I'm kind of confused about Kugel's status. First he says he has a disease so he can't leave the cockpit but then Chamber later in the episode says Kugel stays to make himself more mysterious and "divine" making more people more likely to comply with him. Which is it?

One thing that kind of annoyed me was how Pinion only got a slap on the wrist for flinging his pride around like an asshole last episode

"Why are people here!?" "You called them with your declaration dumbass..." "Oh yeah" It's good he realized it was partly his fault but he shouldn't have even done it in the first place

So Kugel starts a cult/communist society? Happiness for the strong is happiness for you. Bull haha
Modified by HybridMBL, Jun 16, 2013 10:35 AM
 
Jun 16, 2013 10:31 AM

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Pinion is the douche of all douches.
 
Jun 16, 2013 10:32 AM

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Nice plot progression ep. Looks like Pinion is as spineless as I thought previously. I wonder if Ledo will help take over the Gargantia or not. Probably not, because he learned to think for himself. On a side note, the way Kugel runs his ship is similar to communism....lol.
 
Jun 16, 2013 10:41 AM

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Questions... is Kugel actually alive in there? Could Chamber tell if he was? Or is he dead and just being video play for his Caliber?

Why doesn't the pirate queen have the forehead paint? Or her pair of left and right hand gals? Something isn't adding up there.

Can't see Ledo 'educating' Amy and the Gargantia. Caliber fight coming I hope...

Not sure why but this series is still seeming wrong to me at this point. A bunch of episodes I really don't need to see again unfortunately.
 
Jun 16, 2013 10:46 AM
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Hybridbloodszak said:

I'm kind of confused about Kugel's status. First he says he has a disease so he can't leave the cockpit but then Chamber later in the episode says Kugel stays to make himself more mysterious and "divine" making more people more likely to comply with him. Which is it?


Chamber considering he hides to inspire fear means that the disease thing is bullshit.
Maybe Kugel is dead and Striker (the machine) pretends he's alive for the sake of killing Hideauze/following GA policies.
It's weird for Kugel to not personally see his subordinate considering he sacrificed himself (or tried to) in episode 1 for Ledo and lie to him about having a disease despite that Chamber saw through it.
 
Jun 16, 2013 11:07 AM

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inb4 freedom vs justice
 
Jun 16, 2013 11:10 AM

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hpulley said:
Questions... is Kugel actually alive in there? Could Chamber tell if he was? Or is he dead and just being video play for his Caliber?


^ yeah I thought about that too. I almost don't care though. The story is somewhat interesting, but the plot pacing is horrid and ruined it for me. =/
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Jun 16, 2013 11:12 AM

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Rule #1) when you see people with an eye painted to their forehead: be somewhere else.

Didn't bode well for rincewind, and I can't see them religious fanatics here being any different. Also, Kugel must've hit his head or something. Making himself a god...

SAFE YOUR WAIFU LEDO!
Modified by Wordsmith, Jun 16, 2013 11:16 AM
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Jun 16, 2013 11:15 AM

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hpulley said:
Questions... is Kugel actually alive in there? Could Chamber tell if he was? Or is he dead and just being video play for his Caliber?
My thought exactly when he didn't come great Ledo in person.

I think I know what's going on, but I might be wrong. I think Striker is trying to use the old technology to improve human kind on the planet so they can bring the Galactic Alliance back on Earth.

What are you going to do know Ledo? Attack your friends? Ask them to surrender? Disobey order?

If the two machine calibers start to fight each other things aren't going to be pretty.
 
Jun 16, 2013 11:18 AM

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Wouldnt be surprised if Kugel was dead and his robot had a deal going with the pirate queen for some crazy world domination.

Pretty decent episode over all. Time to choose Ledo!
 
Jun 16, 2013 11:20 AM

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I bet the Alliance fans enjoyed this ep. Such an efficient and orderly society! :D

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Jun 16, 2013 11:23 AM

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So she's back like some guessed.

Will be interesting to see how Ledo reacts to them taking over Gargantia or doing whatever. I agree with Chamber's assessment of Kugel the most, but who knows? Maybe it's really the Striker taking over.
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Jun 16, 2013 11:36 AM
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hoping for ledo vs kugel
 
Jun 16, 2013 11:41 AM

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Interesting episode, but I can't shake off the extreme drop in animation quality.
Faces and body proportions looked way off this episode.

Saving budget for massive fight soon?
 
Jun 16, 2013 11:45 AM

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Kurogashi said:
inb4 freedom vs justice


more like a fascist theocracy vs democratic libertarianism.

niaxato said:
Wouldnt be surprised if Kugel was dead and his robot had a deal going with the pirate queen for some crazy world domination.

Pretty decent episode over all. Time to choose Ledo!


if he was dead Chamber would know it. The calibers have free access to each others data. Ledo even had Chamber do a diagnostic on Krugel to understand his disease. Krugal is lying; he's not sick. Ledo and Chamber came up with the conclusion that Krugel did it to promote a mythical godlike persona among the people.

I'm not sure what the deal with Lukkage is. She could be plotting something. Maybe Krugel is in love with Lukkage and that's why she has free range to move about where the others look like cultist nuts.
 
Jun 16, 2013 11:46 AM

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Can't say I've liked this new direction the series have taken during the last few episodes.

On another note, this episode looked rather hilarious with all the derp faces.
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Jun 16, 2013 11:47 AM

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hpulley said:
Questions... is Kugel actually alive in there? Could Chamber tell if he was? Or is he dead and just being video play for his Caliber?


People ask the funniest questions sometimes. There is no need to automatically dismiss all visual information and abandon logic at every opportunity in favor of there being some evil ploy at work. People are forgetting how to take things at face value because they've developed this tendency to search for twists in even the minutest of details.

hpulley said:
Why doesn't the pirate queen have the forehead paint? Or her pair of left and right hand gals? Something isn't adding up there.


This caught my attention as well. I'm guessing she's still a pawn but not officially a member of the Kugel fleet.

hpulley said:
Can't see Ledo 'educating' Amy and the Gargantia. Caliber fight coming I hope...


Kugel's Striker is probably several times more powerful than Chamber. We can somewhat infer this from the first episode where Kugel stayed back and was able to slow the onset of an entire swarm of Hideauze while Ledo seemed to have trouble dealing with just one or two at a time. So in the event of a caliber showdown I don't see how Ledo would win.

If Ledo acts on his change of heart, I'm betting it will take the form of non-violent opposition.

hpulley said:
Not sure why but this series is still seeming wrong to me at this point. A bunch of episodes I really don't need to see again unfortunately.


And finally we have established that this show is badly written. No matter what kind of show you were expecting, there were always a few in this show that you would rather not have watched: episodes 9-11 for the SoL seekers and episodes 5-7 for the plot drivers.

Who knows, maybe it was an attempt to rake in fans of both parties (mind you they're not polar opposite "genres", but very loosely assigned fan categorizations).

linchpin said:
I bet the Alliance fans enjoyed this ep. Such an efficient and orderly society! :D


Definitely shed some light on the nature of the Alliance. Pretty much as expected. 'Course, doesn't change my stance on the GA/Evolver conflict. Lesser evils over greater evils.
Modified by morrownight, Jun 16, 2013 11:55 AM
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:04 PM

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morrownight said:
And finally we have established that this show is badly written. No matter what kind of show you were expecting, there were always a few in this show that you would rather not have watched: episodes 9-11 for the SoL seekers and episodes 5-7 for the plot drivers.


No. Changing pacing between SoL and plot is not bad writing unless it was for nothing. The development brought by SoL is being clearly seen in the plot now.
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:05 PM
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After this we can forget ever learning anything more about GA/Hideauze in that galaxy far, far away. Focus of the story is only Earth. Somehow I kept thinking they would find a way back to their normal world but I guess Ledo and Kugel are truly stuck.
Also, cleared up about what humans turned into, two extremes, either strangulating control or animals, basically, only Gargantians are the good guys here =/

No way will Kugel get away with this tho, Ledo will man up. I wonder how it will go with Chamber tho.
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:05 PM

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Oh man things are getting interesting.

Can't believe there are two more episodes left.
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:07 PM

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Ledo vs Kugel seems to be happening, throughout the first half of this show it showed Ledo's humanization into a person that has actual emotions and ideas for himself. Now we have him being forced to make a decision between the justice system hierarchy he has known vs Freedom of mind that he recently experienced.



 
Jun 16, 2013 12:09 PM

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Litrydow said:
morrownight said:
And finally we have established that this show is badly written. No matter what kind of show you were expecting, there were always a few in this show that you would rather not have watched: episodes 9-11 for the SoL seekers and episodes 5-7 for the plot drivers.


No. Changing pacing between SoL and plot is not bad writing unless it was for nothing. The development brought by SoL is being clearly seen in the plot now.


Agreed, with reservations. To quote Chamber.
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:14 PM

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I hope for so Machine Caliber fight...hurmmmm...

 
Jun 16, 2013 12:34 PM

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Zulichka said:
After this we can forget ever learning anything more about GA/Hideauze in that galaxy far, far away. Focus of the story is only Earth. Somehow I kept thinking they would find a way back to their normal world but I guess Ledo and Kugel are truly stuck.
Also, cleared up about what humans turned into, two extremes, either strangulating control or animals, basically, only Gargantians are the good guys here =/

No way will Kugel get away with this tho, Ledo will man up. I wonder how it will go with Chamber tho.


I hate to post this, but plot-wise there's still one loose end to tie up. And that is, will Ledo's speech back then about the whalesquids only responding to developed civilizations (i.e. advanced energy sources) turn out to be true? After this episode it was clear that there are still whalesquids in existence apart from the pod that Ledo wiped out. Which means that although the story has now been restricted to Earth, the war between human and Hideauze has yet to come to an end.

But circumstances have slightly changed. While the Kugel Fleet has carried over its goals from the Alliance, Earth is a far more complex ecosystem than space, and this itself potentially changes the Human-Hideauze Relationship. At the very least, one lives above the water and the other underneath. We are not clear about the size of the threat posed by the Hideauze in the case of a large-scale attack on the ships. Ultimately I believe the change in this dynamic will point to the end of the series.

Edit:
Based on Kugel's speech, we know that Kugel is aware of the current devolved state of the Earth Hideauze. Thus it follows that he is cognizant of the high likelihood that he and Ledo could systematically wipe out the remaining pods on Earth should they feel it necessary (provided they have the energy resources to sustain their mechas) without involving any of the fleets. However, Kugel's deliberate involvement of the fleets suggests that his goal is not only in eliminating the Hideauze but in establishing a hierarchical utilitarian society, using elimination of the Hideauze as a convenient unifying concept.

Furthermore, by postulating that Kugel's agenda is an accurate representation of the Alliance's agenda, we might infer that the Alliance had similar goals during the space war. In this case, the Alliance is likely guilty of using hypnosis imagery and other forms of propaganda to communicate an exaggerated sense of survival urgency to its soldiers and ostensibly its citizens, in order to establish the hierarchical system that maximizes happiness by their definition. However, the reality is that the GA is losing by a long stretch. This suggests that the rise of the Hideauze was merely a false danger becoming a real danger, and was not the original source of Alliance aggression.

Thus, it is now unclear whether the Evolvers Evolved with the opposition of humanity in mind. Alternatively, the CU and the Evolvers may have had different ideas about the consequences of Evolution, but either way the CU capitalized upon that ambiguity to serve its own purposes.

Neutralists, I concede defeat.
Modified by morrownight, Jun 16, 2013 2:03 PM
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:39 PM

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Big quality drop in animation.
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:42 PM
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THEIR WHOLE FLEET IS COMMUNIST!
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:44 PM
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Wow, I guess we really didn't know how strong Chamber is. He threw the Pirate Queen and her subordinates half way around the world (in order to give them time to join the cult).

So the Alliance is a pure fascist state, not much surprise there, though it is depressing. Had hoped for a bit more complexity than "becoming what you hate". Sigh. Should have know better than to expect something from this show, why should this episode be different from the others.

I guess that means there are plenty more Whalesquid nests on the planet, that makes sense. Though shouldn't that mean that they would have organized to get revenge for Ledo wiping out one colony? I mean that was what happened after Ledo killed one of them. Maybe this means that that the Hideauze are not as "unified" as we thought, or maybe they are just a plot device that will be pulled out of the as.... hat when need be.

Horrific attempt at levity at the beginning. Flange's standing by her man (Pinon) was pretty pathetic. Well, here's hoping that slavery suits her. Though anyone want to bet that Pinon will redeem himself before this series is through. Giving 5 to 1 odds.

This show would have been better off sticking with one theme instead of trying to have too many, stranger in strange land, space opera, slice of life, social commentary, environmental commentary, pick one and do it well. The trouble with multiplying targets is that you usually don't succeed in hitting any of them. Plus, the contrasts between the two fleets is too great, to the extent that even the weather has decided which to support (sun for gargantia, mist for the cult). This show has the depth of cheap one ply toilet paper.
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:48 PM

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bastek66 said:
Queen had nicely animated entré


Hah, that's where most of the budget went this episode. Some other parts suffered (Pinon's face for the most part).
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:48 PM

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so in the end the last boss is the commander.....heads will roll.
 
Jun 16, 2013 12:57 PM

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Hybridbloodszak said:


So Kugel starts a cult/communist society? Happiness for the strong is happiness for you. Bull haha


Hardly a communist society, since communism equals financial equality, that seemed more like a hierarchy.
 
Jun 16, 2013 1:06 PM

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Cool, it looks like we finally have the main antagonist. Like others have said, I'm pretty sure Striker is running the show here.
 
Jun 16, 2013 1:08 PM
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Rinji- said:
Hybridbloodszak said:


So Kugel starts a cult/communist society? Happiness for the strong is happiness for you. Bull haha


Hardly a communist society, since communism equals financial equality, that seemed more like a hierarchy.


Yup, everyone screaming how GA is communism makes me think half of you are illiterate and lacking any education. Natural selection and weak being devoured by strong is essence of capitalism.
 
Jun 16, 2013 1:13 PM
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Zulichka said:
Yup, everyone screaming how GA is communism makes me think half of you are illiterate and lacking any education. Natural selection and weak being devoured by strong is essence of capitalism.


Ah irony, you criticize others correctly for their lack of understanding communism, but then you step in it by revealing your absolute ignorance of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't care who is in the market, indeed the more the better. Eugenics was a progressive idea, the belief that the state had the right to improve society. It's akin to the concept of socialism, which is why most progressives were socialists. Read your 1920/30's US history.

The Alliance is fascist. Was clear back in April when I created a thread about it, is clear now.
 
Jun 16, 2013 1:16 PM

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The cult irritate me they're dumbasses. Why do I have a feeling that Kugel wants to be a dictator, anyway Ledo will ahve to choose sides :D

4/5
 
Jun 16, 2013 1:27 PM

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everyone annoys me in this ep including ledo.. arrggg

 
Jun 16, 2013 1:39 PM

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So, I guess this episode should prove the fascist/authoritarian tendency of Alliance.

I guess the people debating for human superiority and all that bullshit in previous threads will now have to eat their words, as I doubt there's any sane person prefering utalitarian dystopia.

Also - my "AI's rule the Alliance" theory is even more likely now. Watch Ledo ending up somehow opening kugel's tin can and finding a corpse there.


niaxato said:
Wouldnt be surprised if Kugel was dead and his robot had a deal going with the pirate queen for some crazy world domination.


AGREED.


Ledo's robo and whatever-new-robot-name as final villains?

Rinji- said:
Hybridbloodszak said:


So Kugel starts a cult/communist society? Happiness for the strong is happiness for you. Bull haha


Hardly a communist society, since communism equals financial equality, that seemed more like a hierarchy.


Yeah. Its more of a fascist/utalitarian society - superior genes and superior skill, strong devouring the week, the purity of the race, etc.
Modified by Ahenshihael, Jun 16, 2013 1:49 PM
 
Jun 16, 2013 1:40 PM
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it was a bit sad :/.... but as usual great episode
 
Jun 16, 2013 1:46 PM

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Pretty tense ep this week.

Lol just realized the queen reminds me of Hebihime.
 
Jun 16, 2013 1:53 PM

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Since we don't know not enough about the GA I will not comment on that, but the little state Kugel buildt for himself is some kind of religious fanatic totalitarian autocracy.


Btw, someone mentioned how "even the weather was totally different": gargantia = sun, this fleet = bad weather and mist

The are where they are is called "sea of mist" IIRC, so ofc there would be mist. Nomen est omen
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Jun 16, 2013 2:00 PM

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Wordsmith said:
Since we don't know not enough about the GA I will not comment on that, but the little state Kugel buildt for himself is some kind of religious fanatic totalitarian autocracy.


Btw, someone mentioned how "even the weather was totally different": gargantia = sun, this fleet = bad weather and mist

The are where they are is called "sea of mist" IIRC, so ofc there would be mist. Nomen est omen


If we take out the RELIGION part, everything else is identical to what we know about Alliance.

tl;dr thi sis the show's way of SHOWING us how alliance lives, without bringing alliance to us.
 
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