| https://www.insider.com/swedish-prisoners-took-2-guards-hostage-demand-pizza-as-ransom-2021-7 Two Swedish inmates in a high-security prison took two guards hostage for nine hours on Wednesday and eventually released their captives after a request for pizza was answered, reported Swedish daily newspaper Aftonbladet. The two prisoners — 24-year-old Haned Mahamed Abdullahi and 30-year-old Isak Dewit — are serving sentences for murder at Hallby, a high-security prison near Eskilstuna, 70 miles west of Stockholm. The hostage drama unfolded at about 12:30 p.m. local time when the two inmates managed to break into the guard room, reported Euronews. They were carrying razor blades and locked themselves in with the two guards. The prison was locked down, and special unit forces were alerted and deployed. An ambulance, firetruck, and a police helicopter could be seen outside the penitentiary. A mediator was sent in. According to Aftonbladet, the pair initially demanded a helicopter but later negotiated down to 20 kebab shop pizzas for themselves and other inmates. The pizzas were delivered to the inmates at 4:30 p.m. By 9:30 p.m., they had released both guards, bringing a close to the nine-hour-long hostage drama. "Yes, the pizzas were delivered," Prison Spokesman Stina Lyles told AFP. She also added that the guards were not hurt "and were able to return safely to their family." The two inmates were later taken to the police station for questioning, another prison official, Torkel Omnell, told AFP. Looks like they found a way to escape, but were stopped at the guardroom & resorted to using hostages. But since there was no way of proceeding with their escape by that point, I suppose they settled for food that wouldn't normally be available in prison. When you're stuck in a place where you aren't free to fulfill your food cravings, you might as well ask for good food when you have the opportunity. |
| I like how they were nice enough to demand pizzas for the other inmates as well. |
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| Yanks would flip their lid if they knew what Scandinavian prisons are like. I remember seeing a picture of a murderer holding a chainsaw talking to an unarmed guard. The buildings are better than most homes. Seems to work though, the recidivism rate is much lower. |
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QPR said: Yanks would flip their lid if they knew what Scandinavian prisons are like. I remember seeing a picture of a murderer holding a chainsaw talking to an unarmed guard. The buildings are better than most homes. Seems to work though, the recidivism rate is much lower. You are right, I do think its disgusting to pamper violent criminals and treat them better then innocent people. But what do I know, I'm just a barbaric American who still believes in justice and not coddling people who've violated the rights of others. |
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Ryuk9428 said: You are right, I do think its disgusting to pamper violent criminals and treat them better then innocent people. But what do I know, I'm just a barbaric American who still believes in justice and not coddling people who've violated the rights of others. The American way is to turn them into even more barbaric, hardened criminals that will struggle to find a job so offend again and again. Good for the private prison business but not good for law abiding American people. US revenge justice simply does not work, the facts prove it. |
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QPR said: Ryuk9428 said: You are right, I do think its disgusting to pamper violent criminals and treat them better then innocent people. But what do I know, I'm just a barbaric American who still believes in justice and not coddling people who've violated the rights of others. The American way is to turn them into even more barbaric, hardened criminals that will struggle to find a job so offend again and again. Good for the private prison business but not good for law abiding American people. US revenge justice simply does not work, the facts prove it. Criminals can get jobs in the US. I've worked with people who were in prison for several years because of felony convictions. Its just that criminals get low paying jobs instead of the good ones. The "facts" prove that when the US started actually getting serious about law and order during the 90s and 2000s was when crime started plummeting. Now the US has become engulfed by this deranged desire to just let criminals do whatever they want and get comfy jail sentences if they even get one at all and, surprise surprise, crime is going up. |
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| At least they were nice enough to ask for pizza's for the other inmates lol |
 _______I like rocks__  |
MyJudgementIsBad said: Ryuk9428 said: Criminals can get jobs in the US. I've worked with people who were in prison for several years because of felony convictions. "Smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. I've known people who have smoked for years and haven't gotten lung cancer." It being more difficult for them to get a job then it is for others doesn’t mean they can’t get one. If they search hard enough they can definitely find one. |
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Ryuk9428 said: Criminals can get jobs in the US. I've worked with people who were in prison for several years because of felony convictions. Its just that criminals get low paying jobs instead of the good ones. The "facts" prove that when the US started actually getting serious about law and order during the 90s and 2000s was when crime started plummeting. Now the US has become engulfed by this deranged desire to just let criminals do whatever they want and get comfy jail sentences if they even get one at all and, surprise surprise, crime is going up. Look at the crime rate and prison population compared to Europe. The US is the worlds worst % of population in jail, even worse than China. Got any proof they "started to get serious" in the 90s? Murder rate in Sweden barely registers, maybe 1 in 100k https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Sweden-crime-1976-2016-robbery-sex-murder.svg/400px-Sweden-crime-1976-2016-robbery-sex-murder.svg.png US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Homicide_rates1900-2001.jpg 7 in the US. Only an idiot will argue the US is safer or less violent than Sweden, will you be that idiot? |
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QPR said: Yanks would flip their lid if they knew what Scandinavian prisons are like. I remember seeing a picture of a murderer holding a chainsaw talking to an unarmed guard. The buildings are better than most homes. Seems to work though, the recidivism rate is much lower. I know how they are. And I fully agree with their brand of rehabilitation instead of the nonsense we have here. Of course I am not your "average" American tho... |
| @QPR Yeah, ten seconds of research will pull up this map.  You can't compare Sweden to the US because different nations' people have a different genetic/biological proclivity towards crime. I guarantee you that if you loaded 100,000 Japanese people onto a boat and took them to South Africa that the number of crimes the Japanese people commit would only slightly increase. Take 100,000 people from South Africa, load them onto a boat and ship them to Japan. Now watch Japan's crime rate explode given that South Africans seem to have at least 60x the genetic proclivity towards crime that Japanese people do. If you take one city of 100,000 people in it that only had 10 criminals to begin with, then it doesn't matter how stupid your policies are, it will take a long time for the amount of criminals to grow large enough to pose a serious problem. Take another city of 100,000 people that has 1,000 criminals in it, and bad policies will be evident much quicker. All that being said, Sweden's crime rate is increasing. But its mostly rape, harassment, robbery, and assault that is increasing, not homicides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden#Assault And its not just the immigrants doing it either. 60% of rapes in Sweden are committed by people of European origin. Given that Sweden seems determined to pursue stupid liberal policies that will make it easy for violent criminals to reproduce, I'd be willing to bet money that Sweden will turn into a crime infested shithole at some point in its future if Sweden continues pursuing the social policies that it does. |
Ryuk9428Jul 23, 2021 1:14 AM
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| That map just shows the amount of people in jail. That's got nothing to do with getting tough. Boasting you have 2.5m people in jail isn't really a good thing. When those 2.5m get out, they will be hardened lifetime criminals. Crime rate in Sweden is going up because of the illegal immigrants, nothing to do with being "soft" on crime. So less than 1% of the population is responsible for 40% of rapes. Ask yourself this, would you rather walk down a street at night in Gothenburg or LA/Philly/Chicago? |
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QPR said: This is exactly why firing squads are but the only effective solution.Ryuk9428 said: You are right, I do think its disgusting to pamper violent criminals and treat them better then innocent people. But what do I know, I'm just a barbaric American who still believes in justice and not coddling people who've violated the rights of others. The American way is to turn them into even more barbaric, hardened criminals that will struggle to find a job so offend again and again. Good for the private prison business but not good for law abiding American people. US revenge justice simply does not work, the facts prove it. |
  “The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!” |
| Lol, I opened this thread to congratulate the guys and read some upbeat comments but instead, it is just filled with some cringe-worthy fascist and racist BS. This is why the military should be privatized. MyJudgementIsBad said: Ryuk9428 said: Criminals can get jobs in the US. I've worked with people who were in prison for several years because of felony convictions. "Smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. I've known people who have smoked for years and haven't gotten lung cancer." That sums up 80% of Ryuk's comments. |
149597871Jul 23, 2021 8:59 AM
| But how good is Swedish pizza? Don't forget "My dad says..." |
traedJul 23, 2021 7:36 PM
| ''Kebab pizza shop''. I know a Serbian fella who would like to participate in the negotiations. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
KaiserHamuel said: Ryuk9428 said: @QPR Yeah, ten seconds of research will pull up this map. You can't compare Sweden to the US because different nations' people have a different genetic/biological proclivity towards crime. I guarantee you that if you loaded 100,000 Japanese people onto a boat and took them to South Africa that the number of crimes the Japanese people commit would only slightly increase. Take 100,000 people from South Africa, load them onto a boat and ship them to Japan. Now watch Japan's crime rate explode given that South Africans seem to have at least 60x the genetic proclivity towards crime that Japanese people do. If you take one city of 100,000 people in it that only had 10 criminals to begin with, then it doesn't matter how stupid your policies are, it will take a long time for the amount of criminals to grow large enough to pose a serious problem. Take another city of 100,000 people that has 1,000 criminals in it, and bad policies will be evident much quicker. All that being said, Sweden's crime rate is increasing. But its mostly rape, harassment, robbery, and assault that is increasing, not homicides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden#Assault And its not just the immigrants doing it either. 60% of rapes in Sweden are committed by people of European origin. Given that Sweden seems determined to pursue stupid liberal policies that will make it easy for violent criminals to reproduce, I'd be willing to bet money that Sweden will turn into a crime infested shithole at some point in its future if Sweden continues pursuing the social policies that it does. It’s because of Sweden’s more liberal policies that it’s not a crime infested shithole like the US. There’s no such thing as genetic disposition to committing crime. Pretty backwards thinking this day and age. Every single behavioral trait is genetically/biologically heritable.  Pretty much all human behavior comes down to 50% genetics, and 50% environment/hormonal processes. Some guy here named "MALFactChecker" went to a huge amount of effort to try and disprove biological determinism and he couldn't do it. He even admitted that three different sources back up the chart I just posted suggesting that every trait you can think of is genetically inherited. This includes ideology.  The chart above shows you how heritable political ideas are based on gender. VAM or the left side of the chart within red lines shows how heritable it is for males while VAF or the right side within the red lines shows how heritable these ideas are for females. |
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149597871 said: Lol, I opened this thread to congratulate the guys and read some upbeat comments but instead, it is just filled with some cringe-worthy fascist and racist BS. This is why the military should be privatized. MyJudgementIsBad said: "Smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. I've known people who have smoked for years and haven't gotten lung cancer." That sums up 80% of Ryuk's comments. Indeed xd These guys boast about having the worst incarceration rates and then forget about the fact that quite a few of the criminals come from families that had to deal with racism and segregation. Africa also got screwed over A LOT. I hate the woke ass policies that the US seems to be pulling now but at least I can also see Racism and recognize that the past policies weren't that good either. The US never seems to want ti deal with the root cause. But ey I have one word for the Swedes that got pizza and that is: CAWABUNGA! |
| Ngl that sounds something I'd do for a kebab pizza. They know what's good. Ryuk9428 said: That isn't something that is argued about constantly, or uncommon statement. The thing is you're skipping/ignoring quite many things.Every single behavioral trait is genetically/biologically heritable. Aggressive temperament most likely is heritable, but a person who is hot headed isn't going to start a fight with people thanks to their genetics if they've learned to deal with their anger in a healthy way. Addictions are more prone for people who have a certain personality, but that doesn't mean others would be immune to addictions... And so on. We can just assume what could possibly be risks in a person's life, if we'd look at their genes. There's no data to suggest certain traits in a person are the main contributors for turning to crime, when people with traits associated with criminals have lived and still live by abiding the law. And honestly wouldn't it already suggest a person isn't simply just a puppet to their nature, if you have personally known people who were sentenced for their crimes but after that went to live "normal" lives instead of starting all over again doing crime. As for your generalization of ethnicities. You're forgetting different human populations already are genetically diverse. If we weren't inherited illnesses would be a lot more common among different populations. I doubt you generalize Swedes to be schizophrenic or breast cancer patients even when there's data that suggest there's genetic higher risk in Swedish population to have those illnesses. So why generalize when it's about behavior? + that's really bad country as an example in your argument. South Africa is multiethnic country and has had immigration from other regions of Africa and influence/immigration from around the globe. Genetic map and ancestry of South Africa is diverse, there isn't one specific "South African" gene. Oh and also a country with pretty high number of homelessness and unemployment, like 32,6 % compared to Japan that has 2.97 % google tells me. Idk maybe it's just me, but jumping to conclusion crime rate in South Africa is high because genes tell them to commit crimes sounds some lazy excuse a politician would make to avoid fixing issues at present. |
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konkelo said: Ngl that sounds something I'd do for a kebab pizza. They know what's good. Ryuk9428 said: That isn't something that is argued about constantly, or uncommon statement. The thing is you're skipping/ignoring quite many things.Every single behavioral trait is genetically/biologically heritable. Aggressive temperament most likely is heritable, but a person who is hot headed isn't going to start a fight with people thanks to their genetics if they've learned to deal with their anger in a healthy way. Addictions are more prone for people who have a certain personality, but that doesn't mean others would be immune to addictions... And so on. We can just assume what could possibly be risks in a person's life, if we'd look at their genes. There's no data to suggest certain traits in a person are the main contributors for turning to crime, when people with traits associated with criminals have lived and still live by abiding the law. And honestly wouldn't it already suggest a person isn't simply just a puppet to their nature, if you have personally known people who were sentenced for their crimes but after that went to live "normal" lives instead of starting all over again doing crime. As for your generalization of ethnicities. You're forgetting different human populations already are genetically diverse. If we weren't inherited illnesses would be a lot more common among different populations. I doubt you generalize Swedes to be schizophrenic or breast cancer patients even when there's data that suggest there's genetic higher risk in Swedish population to have those illnesses. So why generalize when it's about behavior? + that's really bad country as an example in your argument. South Africa is multiethnic country and has had immigration from other regions of Africa and influence/immigration from around the globe. Genetic map and ancestry of South Africa is diverse, there isn't one specific "South African" gene. Oh and also a country with pretty high number of homelessness and unemployment, like 32,6 % compared to Japan that has 2.97 % google tells me. Idk maybe it's just me, but jumping to conclusion crime rate in South Africa is high because genes tell them to commit crimes sounds some lazy excuse a politician would make to avoid fixing issues at present. Yes, you're correct that there's a lot of different genes that go into what creates this kind of behavior. Well, I can also tell you, that the same genetic patterns which create a society full of crime are also the genetic patterns that create dysfunctional societies in general. Low IQ is a big one. People with an IQ in the 80s are the most likely to commit crimes. They are basically not smart enough to comprehend complex moral concepts, compete in an advanced civilization, or think in a long term, future oriented manner. When I say genes cause people to commit crimes, I'm not just talking about genes that cause really bad behavior like the genes creating sadists or sociopaths. I'm also talking about behavior that is still bad but not as far on the scale. A gang member might not be a sadist or sociopath, but he may lack the gene that gives him the ability to plan for the future. This inability to plan for the future makes him impulsive and gets him into financial or social trouble, the only means of escaping that is by joining a gang. This is how genetics intersect with environment. The more people you have in a country who lack the genetic ability to plan for the future, the more people are gonna turn into criminals because they fundamentally lack the ability to make good decisions that will result in future benefit. Then an environment full of criminals means that people who have other genetic deficiencies or problems have other reasons for being attracted to gang life. The fact that gang life is so visible in the community makes it easily accessible. Let's use another example. Let's say Marvin and Todd have the exact same genetic wiring motivating them to ambitiously seek status in their community. Marvin, however, is raised in an environment of intelligent, law abiding people. Todd on the other hand, is raised in an environment full of aggressive people with no respect for the law or those around them. Marvin won't be a criminal, because criminality is stigmatized in his community and would ruin his social status. Todd, on the other hand, will become a criminal because that's what his community values. So could changing the environment make some people not be criminals and other people into criminals? Yes. But that's not the whole story. Let's say Todd had one gene making him seek social status but another gene that makes him seek genuine love/affection from others as a part of his social status. In that case, it doesn't matter what the environment is like, Todd is going to want real affection from others and not the superficial kind of social status you receive from gangs/criminal communities. If a politician said the sort of things I am saying, I'd conclude he was more serious about fixing social problems then others are. In order to fix these problems, you basically have to structure society in a way that the kind of people who make your society better are the ones who rise to the top, and then once those people rise to the top, encourage and facilitate reproduction. Look at what Christian fundamentalist families do by having large families. They have the right idea, basically out-reproduce the opposition. Its very difficult to change people. Eliminating people is immoral. But its not hard to create more good people. Liberal countries are doing the precise opposite of that. They are making it as difficult for good people to reproduce as possible while making it as easy for the trashy people to reproduce as possible. The problem with countries like South Africa, The Congo, and Somalia, is that they have no history of the kind of policies and social structure I mentioned whatsoever. They have made no attempt to reward specific, positive behaviors whatsoever. Its been a long history of whoever rises to the top naturally gets to do whatever he wants. They never managed to overcome the might makes right mentality that keeps a society barbaric and dysfunctional. Europe and East Asia on the other hand have a long history of reproductive regulations. They have actively attempted to facilitate reproduction between smarter, more moral, and more future oriented people. And ultimately, this is what created civilization. Until countries like the Congo start implementing social structures similar to the ones that were present in Europe and East Asia for centuries, they will remain a country full of rape, violence, backwardness, and dysfunction. |
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| @Ryuk9428 Ok, so what I got from your text is that we both agree that outside influences affects how people's genetics show. But you really need to be more specific what you're meaning. Since when I'm thinking about fundamental Christians I can only think about my country's small independent sect of church and they're well known kiddy fiddlers and incest isn't that rare occurrence unfortunately. Second what are you meaning by Europe's reproduction regulations? Because if you're talking about forced sterilizations and abortions that were practiced in Europe during WWII and after, I can't agree with those since they were pretty much against any human rights and violation of another person's autonomy to their body and decision making. Picking also again examples of questionable countries, since DMC and Somalia have had pretty rough history of war, colonization and dictatorship. So all around unstable political landscapes, trying to separate what is caused by the environment and genetics is most likely nearly impossible. Back to genetics though, since that's what this originally was about. If we hypothetically did find genes that are indicators that the person could be a potential criminal, there's one big but in this. Likewise how all heritable traits these could be recessive genes, possibly just skip one generation and be present in the next. What I assume your goal with favor "the better" people to reproduce, is that way eliminating all the unwanted genes but those same people could as well carry all those genes that create criminals. Unless there was affordable way to make designer babies, it is pretty unrealistic to expect to avoid the people you called trashy. |
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| I wonder if the other inmates actually got to eat their pizzas lmao have a feeling the guards must've thrown the rest of them away [or ate them themselves xD] |
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QPR said: Man, imagine unironically trying to compare Sweden to the US and using that as some sort of indication that US prison's are barbaric.Ryuk9428 said: Criminals can get jobs in the US. I've worked with people who were in prison for several years because of felony convictions. Its just that criminals get low paying jobs instead of the good ones. The "facts" prove that when the US started actually getting serious about law and order during the 90s and 2000s was when crime started plummeting. Now the US has become engulfed by this deranged desire to just let criminals do whatever they want and get comfy jail sentences if they even get one at all and, surprise surprise, crime is going up. Look at the crime rate and prison population compared to Europe. The US is the worlds worst % of population in jail, even worse than China. Got any proof they "started to get serious" in the 90s? Murder rate in Sweden barely registers, maybe 1 in 100k https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Sweden-crime-1976-2016-robbery-sex-murder.svg/400px-Sweden-crime-1976-2016-robbery-sex-murder.svg.png US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Homicide_rates1900-2001.jpg 7 in the US. Only an idiot will argue the US is safer or less violent than Sweden, will you be that idiot? It's almost as if you're completely unaware of WHY the US is filled with crime and WHY Europe, Oceania and even Asia ISN'T filled with crime. Geography, history, economics, policy, culture and the world power status of the US have a direct relation to WHY the US has more crime than most other places in the world and to blindly compare anywhere else to it without factoring these things shows a clear lack of worldly experience. |
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konkelo said: "Since when I'm thinking about fundamental Christians I can only think about my country's small independent sect of church and they're well known kiddy fiddlers and incest isn't that rare occurrence unfortunately."@Ryuk9428 Ok, so what I got from your text is that we both agree that outside influences affects how people's genetics show. But you really need to be more specific what you're meaning. Since when I'm thinking about fundamental Christians I can only think about my country's small independent sect of church and they're well known kiddy fiddlers and incest isn't that rare occurrence unfortunately. Second what are you meaning by Europe's reproduction regulations? Because if you're talking about forced sterilizations and abortions that were practiced in Europe during WWII and after, I can't agree with those since they were pretty much against any human rights and violation of another person's autonomy to their body and decision making. Picking also again examples of questionable countries, since DMC and Somalia have had pretty rough history of war, colonization and dictatorship. So all around unstable political landscapes, trying to separate what is caused by the environment and genetics is most likely nearly impossible. Back to genetics though, since that's what this originally was about. If we hypothetically did find genes that are indicators that the person could be a potential criminal, there's one big but in this. Likewise how all heritable traits these could be recessive genes, possibly just skip one generation and be present in the next. What I assume your goal with favor "the better" people to reproduce, is that way eliminating all the unwanted genes but those same people could as well carry all those genes that create criminals. Unless there was affordable way to make designer babies, it is pretty unrealistic to expect to avoid the people you called trashy. Hey buddy, just some advice but how about actually dedicating a few hours to learning some history and theology? I mean you seem to have enough time to debate people on MAL so why is it such a stretch to actually better understand the world instead of holding such completely narrow-minded views? There are so many things wrong with that single sentence that if one actually knew theology and history you wouldn't even be able to type such a thing because actually understanding the history of Christianity including the reformation and it's various denominations would result in what you just typed being nothing more than words. Sadly this narrow-minded belief is present in many places where people unironically believe CATHOLICS == CHRISTIANS lmao |
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Cneq said: I wasn't talking about Catholic church or even thinking about it, if your stereotype of a catholic person is a sexual abuser that's on you. Believe it or not other churches around the globe also have skeletons in their closet not just Roman catholic church. But sounds like you hold Christian values close to you or have high regards to them, I guess I need to clarify in no part I'm implying every Christian regardless of what's their denomination is a hypocrite. All I want is more specific description of the group what was used as an example, since fundamental Christians are quite diverse group.Sadly this narrow-minded belief is present in many places where people unironically believe CATHOLICS == CHRISTIANS lmao |
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Fate_Saber88 said: ''Kebab pizza shop''. I know a Serbian fella who would like to participate in the negotiations. I know an Australian fella who would like to participate in the negotiations. |
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