| Inferior no, stagnating artistically yeah. |
| The way I see it, is that anime is not inferior to Western Media, it's just that anime still haven't fully made it's way to western culture yet, the number of channels that broadcast anime are too limited, way to limited compared to western ones. There isn't a single channel that airs anime where I live, compared to hundreds upon hundreds of channels dedicated to western media. And lets be honest, most of us watch anime online, this alone hinders the spread of Anime to the western media A LOT , there isn't much reason for development of western anime television medium if there isn't enough demand for it. |
 |
| anime is gross tbh, western media is better in most cases |
| It depends on what you're looking for. Many western shows are leagues better than most anime in terms of dialogue, plot, and characterization (though there are certainly select anime shows that can hold their own). But in terms of visual storytelling - art, imagery, symbolism, cinematography - imo there is no contest, anime is generally superior. Western shows might be well-written, but they are almost painfully generic in terms of cinematography, shot composition, visual storytelling - they adhere to traditional continuity editing and rarely have any notable or "arthouse" visual elements. Anime, on the other hand, is full of sharp directing, thematic use of imagery, visual experimentation - there is not a single Western TV show that even approximates the kind of symbolism and visual experimentation in Ikuhara-directed shows like Revolutionary Girl Utena and Penguin Drum, for instance. EDIT: Just this season, we have Rakugo Shinju, 3-Gatsu, and Kuzu no Honkai which are all more artistically and stylishly directed than anything I've seen on Western TV in recent years. |
| I think the biggest advantage anime has over the western industry is the ability to tackle any subject, no matter how adult or obscure or absurd it is. Violence, sex, and the harsh realities of life are not off-limits (though how well and tactfully each series handles this is up for debate). In modern Western animation, unless I am mistaken, you see a lot less of this... especially nowadays. Many mature-themed shows are often just the comedy type with extremely limited animation (anywhere from the TV-14 Family Guy all the way to Adult Swim shows like Metalocalypse). Aside from the comedies, most animation is going to be family friendly theater releases (a la 3D animated films from Pixar and DreamWorks), or morning cartoon shows. The alternative in the Western market are things like DC's Animated Universe, with Batman movies being animated in 2D and being released almost annually. Things like that are rare, and are the closest comparison to what we see in anime: a full, serious plot animated frame by frame, with action, character depth, and slightly more mature plot points. Unfortunately, this is just how the market currently is. I feel as though this might change ever so slightly in the next ten years with certain independent small studios filling a niche demand for anime-influenced animation, almost creating a second market that will merely take a small fraction from the main industry's attention. But this is just my hypothesis. |
| You can check out my up-and-coming animation studio here: https://www.facebook.com/eurasianartisans |
HamburgerSpike said: edit: @katsaroulhs @Tylaen @IpreferEcchi Thank you guys I had a good laugh, a really well prepared sketch. It must have been really hard pretending to be so dumb tho, seemed pretty realistic. I see, so you guys are still at it huh. Porn > Hentai What the fuck?! 1 cum > 10 cum ya sure about that? ugly 3D bitch > Imouto ya sure about that? Ehhh.. I see now... I see what you did there OP... |
| Yep. I'd take Supernatural or The Walking Dead over -most- anime anyday. |
martiooo said: Phendrus said: I have never even come close to thinking this. I absolutely despise the vast majority of American television (as my profile states.) Most of it that I've watched is complete tripe in my eyes. That said, I don't despise Western film as a whole: I love a lot of British series and movies. It's just the American fare that I tend to revile so much. Not all of it, but the vast majority of it. I'm not saying anime is "objectively" better than American television, but on a subjective level, I find anime FAR superior. Same here. Western media is littered with generic cop dramas and damned forced melodrama. The drama, romance, and badassery is always marked by the same tired trope: talking in a low octave voice. I find it ridiculous and pretentious that they could pretend that is the depth of human emotion. Even if you take anime's female tropes: Tsundere, Dandere, Kamidere, Himedere, Deredere, Yandere, etc, look at what they're doing: they're exaggerating actual human emotion. Every girl gets Tsun Tsun, every girl has a lovey dovey side, a princess side, an eccentric side, and some are even defensive like a Yandere. And anti-social girls aren't always some damn Tomboy role or passive aggressive bitch as western media loves to do so don't tell me we have a Dandere in western media. For any of these tropes we hardly have anything close in western media. The only two Tsunderes I can remember are Rey and Leia in Star Wars, and that's like a 30 gap in having a realistic emotioned female trope... I also find it ridiculous that they hardly ever cast females as heroic figures. Morally reprehensible even. I'm not even exaggerating my feeling on this at all. It's truly morally reprehensible what they're doing to female roles, and kind of gay. And this guy actually asserts that Avatar and The Clone Wars having better quality? Seriously? Avatar's animation was piss poor and The Clone Wars looked cartoony and disengaging in my opinion. To each their own I guess. All these tropes are shit and unrealistic. How is exaggerating (crappy)emotions a good thing? Females have better characterization on average in most live action shows compared to anime. @_Ako_ im serious, but I think the future might bring some competition together with the technology to make high quality hentai |
 Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
 Yeahhh....really, man? I like Breaking Bad (even own a t-shirt!), but we're comparing apples and oranges here. Not to mention, a lot of American TV is corny, rehashed sitcoms or reality shows tailored to drooling mouthbreathers who wouldn't know reality if it socked them like 80's Mike Tyson punching present-day George Bush Sr. in the face. |
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| @HamburgerSpike Quality hentai? Don't make me laugh me, give me a hentai adaptation of Oyasumi Sex and I'll agree with you. Other than that, nah, it wouldn't Original hentai > Hentai + Porn And, yes, I am saying that. |
HamburgerSpike said: European art house>the non-mistake anime>average of american live action schlock European art house>best american live action>best anime 3D porn>ecchi/hentai bollywood>generic moeblobs edit: @katsaroulhs @Tylaen @IpreferEcchi Thank you guys I had a good laugh, a really well prepared sketch. It must have been really hard pretending to be so dumb tho, seemed pretty realistic. Normally I would get offended but then I noticed "European art house>best american live action>best anime". I was raised not to get into arguments with "special" people. |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
| @martiooo yes, but most anime series usually only focus on one aspect of the females personality, I never noticed the deep female voices tho lol @_Ako_ to each their own I guess, but they dont move and you have to click yourself, isnt that kinda 'uncomfortable' @katsaroulhs I just complimented your abilities. Its good you were raised not to pick fights you know youd lose. |
| Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
15poundfish said: kodial said: But even so, even if you really have to compare western live action series to animated japanese series, I still find the japanese ones better. So there is Breaking Bad, which is good. Wire and House of Cards which are good. West World which is, well, eh... let's just say it's good too. But for all those rare good series, there are plenty Supernaturals, American Horror Stories, Walking Deads and Games of Thrones which are utter bullshit, so in the end of it all, it's easier to find good anime than western live action series. So yeah, anime is still better. I am not really talking about the quantity of good shows but the peaks of each medium. Western television in particular just seems to be a levels above anime in that regard. There are no Anime equivalents in quality that I listed in my OP. As far as cartoons go, it depends on what type of shows the person likes to watch. Cartoons in the west are good but almost all of them are just comedies with some action sprinkled in. Well... My favorite live action TV series is Breaking Bad and my favorite anime is Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Compared to Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Breaking Bad does not even exist. Why, other anime I favor but not as much as LoGH like, say, Parasyte, the entire Mushishi franchise or Kino's Journey which is not even among my top 10 favorites, are all still very much better than Breaking Bad. So no, nothing American television has ever done, comes close to anime. |
| Signature? I ain't got no signature! I don't need no signature! I don't have to show you any stinkin' signature! |
HamburgerSpike said: @martiooo yes, but most anime series usually only focus on one aspect of the females personality, I never noticed the deep female voices tho lol @_Ako_ to each their own I guess, but they dont move and you have to click yourself, isnt that kinda 'uncomfortable' @katsaroulhs I just complimented your abilities. Its good you were raised not to pick fights you know youd lose. Whatever you say friend. Life is good, even with the wrong amount of chromosomes, so don't ever give up! |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
 No also why do non anime fans go to this website again? |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| It depends on your opinion. Do you want someone to agree or something? |
Special snowflake syndrome is the answer. |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
| Western TV animation can't tell a story while japanese animation sometimes can. About the animation quality, of course it is superior in the West since the main idea in japanese animation was about cost reduction and expressiveness through the most limited possible ways. About live series, I have the exact same problem. Apart from the 3~6 episodes series (like many programs on the BBCs), there is almost no TV show who knows when to stop, sadly even when they started with a real story to tell. Even Breaking Bad went far beyond its welcome, resorting to constantly reverting characters. And that 's not even the worst: what makes probably around 90% of the production (West Europa, USAs at least) are storyless things where you see some people showing how (un)professional they are. Of course, things like that are interesting, but not when they are repeated indefinitely. Even changes in characters (from a series to another, or even in the same series) can't make up for that. @gabrielrroiz We should consider all those UK (Channel/E4, BBCs, etc) limited shows out of bondaries for the comparison. They are clearly above the masses of what is done for TV in the West. |
Rei_IIIFeb 14, 2017 2:04 PM
katsaroulhs said: HamburgerSpike said: @martiooo yes, but most anime series usually only focus on one aspect of the females personality, I never noticed the deep female voices tho lol @_Ako_ to each their own I guess, but they dont move and you have to click yourself, isnt that kinda 'uncomfortable' @katsaroulhs I just complimented your abilities. Its good you were raised not to pick fights you know youd lose. Whatever you say friend. Life is good, even with the wrong amount of chromosomes, so don't ever give up! The last time I heard that insult was in middle school, its not clever, its overused and doesnt even refer/diss my post, u really gotta step up your game if you wanna rule dem forums. I could continue this but it would be beating a dead horse and you also have some cool favorites ;) |
| Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
| I've finished Breaking Bad, and I'm up to date on shows like The Walking Dead (as of last Sunday) and Game of Thrones (unless s6 of GoT has started already?) I remember finishing awesome shows like True Blood, and the avatar stuff: The Last Air Bender/Legend of Korra. BUT these few western shows are the only examples of the exception of good quality entertainment that I can find in the west. It's still mostly anime that I watch, mostly anime that immerses me with their plots and dramatic shifts in tone. The only shows that I search for and look forward to are anime. It all comes down to taste, and the bold flavor of anime appeals much more to me than most of the bland wish-wash that passes as entertainment over here. Speaking of which, should I start on West World to see what that's all about? It's got Anthony Hopkins doesn't it? that does interest me |
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| I wouldn't compare something animated with a limited budget to something 'acted' out and live. That's silly. No it's not inferior. It's comparing apples to oranges. I've seen way better stories in certain anime than i've seen on tv.. Like Monster, or Yojouhan Shinwa Taikei |
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| i am waiting for people to start arguing that live action series are better because they contain masterpieces like black mirror or sherlock this two make any anime look like shit in comparison |
| Nope. My top 6 anime are at the top and thus are better than my favorite shows that are from english speaking countries. |
| To be honest I don't like watching most series that are popular around here. Games of Thrones, or whatever - I'm not exactly sure why, but they just don't really attract me. Movies are different; I really enjoy watching occasional movies. The difference between live movies and anime are obvious, and I honestly can't say that one is superior to the other - They're just different. However! Movie stories don't "affect" me as much as a longer (24ep) anime or good book series. Probably because you simply can't pack *too much* story into two hours. What I mean to say is that a movie immerses me more into its universe for the time I'm watching it, but not remotely as much as a longer (good) anime after being done with watching. Maybe I could get the same different from movies and western live series - But as I said before, I just don't really like most of them / haven't bothered yet to start watching (Seriously, it'd be my doom if I started liking them as well. I'd be even more unproductive than I am now.) The thing with western animations: I'm not a fan of the 3D CGI stuff at all, so much to Avatar (Wasn't it a movie anyway?) And all the stuff they show in TV around here are really dumb and crappy supposedly comedic series. Note that I hereby don't make any difference between "anime" produced in the west and "anime" produced in Asia. I know that most people do, but I simply qualify everything as anime that, well, is anime - That specific form of media, art. If you made that difference in your original post, then I honestly have to say that I can neither answer your question about why not more get produced in the west, nor as to why those that are produced around here are supposedly better. I don't even know where the series I watch are produced, because I seriously couldn't give less shits about the location of where it was produced. I mean, is there anything more irrelevant than that? If the question is simply about "anime" (As form of art / style, not where it was produced) vs live series or movies, I have to agree with this: Blood-Typemaster said: Personally, I think anime is far better as an artistic medium. It has explored lots of different ideas, the art is generally more creative, and the characters are more memorable. Generally, western media bores the hell out of me. The fact that everything is drawn/animated leaves A LOT of space to creativity, much more than a live film (Then again, it depends, but usually that is the case.). Compared to books, I'd say that books leave a bigger part of imagination to the reader, thus leaving different interpretations open, whereas anime should be more about what the producer wanted to convey. |
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| Well, a lot of it is based upon opinion and culture. Also i know a lot of people that i know see anime as childish and obnoxious. I guess its just about where you grew up at and what the community around you grew up watching. My opinion is that anime is far better than western shows. I just cant seem to get hooked to shows like breaking bad or walking dead, but give me an anime and i am there. :) |
Quaisar said: Yeah, true. I think the main reason anime is seen as childish around here is that animation series in the west are mainly meant for children - Thus, its ingrained in our culture to think "for children" when we see something animated.Well, a lot of it is based upon opinion and culture. Also i know a lot of people that i know see anime as childish and obnoxious. I guess its just about where you grew up at and what the community around you grew up watching. My opinion is that anime is far better than western shows. I just cant seem to get hooked to shows like breaking bad or walking dead, but give me an anime and i am there. :) The other part is the really bad reputation of the community, and the way that somehow the most shitty anime gain a lot of popularity and are thus seen as the "standard" of anime. |
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flannan said: 15poundfish said: The cartoons like the Clone Wars, Avatar,etc are far better than most shounen anime and have better animation despite being extremely old shows. That's a blatant lie. I have actually seen Avatar, and it's notably dumb, childish and full of american toilet humor. The only reason you could like it is because you're american. You may not believe what I'm going to say, but thank you. From the bottom of my heart. Your reply was absolutely spot on. |
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Call-Me-Captain said: Quaisar said: Yeah, true. I think the main reason anime is seen as childish around here is that animation series in the west are mainly meant for children - Thus, its ingrained in our culture to think "for children" when we see something animated.Well, a lot of it is based upon opinion and culture. Also i know a lot of people that i know see anime as childish and obnoxious. I guess its just about where you grew up at and what the community around you grew up watching. My opinion is that anime is far better than western shows. I just cant seem to get hooked to shows like breaking bad or walking dead, but give me an anime and i am there. :) The other part is the really bad reputation of the community, and the way that somehow the most shitty anime gain a lot of popularity and are thus seen as the "standard" of anime. I could not have said it better myself. Along with what you were saying about how the most shitty anime gain the popularity; i would like to add that anime is always paired with networks that promote the childish shows. Anime is also kinda only showed late at night and not distributed to the masses. Its an endless circle of not gaining popularity but also cant gain popularity because of the childish stigma. |
15poundfish said: Andan210 said: remove hair style/colors", not talking about a normal anime character design. If someone really finds it difficult to differentiate normal characters in a show, then that person is the one with the problem (maybe they have memory problems or attention deficit), not the artist. Joker Game (same face syndrome and similar hair combo), Clannad (dual purple hair), Osomatsu-san( all of the main characters) are pretty confusing at times. Joker Game: No, you are still able to differentiate the characters. Clannad: Those characters are twins. They are supposed to look the same. And even then you can easily diffirentiate them. Osomatsu-san: Those characters are sextuplets. They are supposed to look the same. Stop blaming anime for your poor attention skills. |
| The only True Ending is the Harem Ending. |
sky977 said: flannan said: That's a blatant lie. I have actually seen Avatar, and it's notably dumb, childish and full of american toilet humor. The only reason you could like it is because you're american. You may not believe what I'm going to say, but thank you. From the bottom of my heart. Your reply was absolutely spot on. I'm gonna agree with that too. Avatar was the poor man's anime but I'm being fair, if it was listed here, I'd have given it a 6 very kindly. Clone Wars does not worth anyone's time unless they're hardcore star wars fan, 4/10 at best. |
| Signature? I ain't got no signature! I don't need no signature! I don't have to show you any stinkin' signature! |
HamburgerSpike said: Worry not, I took inspiration from you so it is no doubt my acting was on point.edit: @katsaroulhs @Tylaen @IpreferEcchi Thank you guys I had a good laugh, a really well prepared sketch. It must have been really hard pretending to be so dumb tho, seemed pretty realistic. |
 |
flannan said: 15poundfish said: The cartoons like the Clone Wars, Avatar,etc are far better than most shounen anime and have better animation despite being extremely old shows. That's a blatant lie. I have actually seen Avatar, and it's notably dumb, childish and full of american toilet humor. The only reason you could like it is because you're american. avatar is far more than whatever you are implying it does a great job with its characters(zuko character arc is great)and their interaction are always entertaining to watch it also presents a vast and well explored world that usually allows for some great worldbuilding and interesting exploration of the main ideas that are the base of the major cultures in that show i still would not rate it anymore than a 8 and ranking it among the best in anime is ridiculous |
| @gabrielrroiz Looks like the sarcasm flew right over ya. |
| Hell no, I want to get away from reality, not look at some "dark and gritty" live-action drama that tries to pretend to be realistic or has to constantly depict "real life problems." Imo American TV shows are long and boring,and subject matter nowhere near the range of bizarre and far-out topics in anime. Look at this season, we have ww1 battleloli, dragon maids and perverted RPG characters. No US TV network would ever greenlight stuff like this, it would get massive normie hate. I like some live-action films and a few TV shows, but the only entertainment form that really interests me is anime. |
gabrielrroiz said: i hate most western tv series the lack of any development narratives in most of those and the fact most of those are composed by generic cop dramas(that have way less variety than the infamous school setting) make me prefer anime way more and no actually the character in evangelion are more complex than most of those in western fiction the wire really isn't a generic cop drama and there's a lot of character-related storytelling in it OT: not especially, beyond occasional very strong shows. there's certainly a lot of mediocre television in the states. there are also more television shows that are consistently more mature and ambitious than most anime - but there's still anime that demonstrate that same ambition (although they're very rare) |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
| Avatar was great, wtf are you on about? I mean why do you all have to pick sides 100%? Why can't you just accept that both domains will have some crap, some masterpieces and some average examples? |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
truisms said: gabrielrroiz said: i hate most western tv series the lack of any development narratives in most of those and the fact most of those are composed by generic cop dramas(that have way less variety than the infamous school setting) make me prefer anime way more and no actually the character in evangelion are more complex than most of those in western fiction the wire really isn't a generic cop drama and there's a lot of character-related storytelling in it OT: not especially, beyond occasional very strong shows. there's certainly a lot of mediocre television in the states. there are also more television shows that are consistently more mature and ambitious than most anime - but there's still anime that demonstrate that same ambition (although they're very rare) i loved what i watched from the wire so i agree even if there are stand outs in cop dramas i can not say i am very fond of the formula |
gabrielrroiz said: truisms said: the wire really isn't a generic cop drama and there's a lot of character-related storytelling in it OT: not especially, beyond occasional very strong shows. there's certainly a lot of mediocre television in the states. there are also more television shows that are consistently more mature and ambitious than most anime - but there's still anime that demonstrate that same ambition (although they're very rare) i loved what i watched from the wire so i agree even if there are stand outs in cop dramas i can not say i am very fond of the formula the reason the wire stands out is because it ISN'T like regular cop shows and doesn't follow their formula - it's not episodic, it's a story arc, and there's a lot of exploration into the deeper causes of crime and the ways crime networks function. the climaxes aren't structured only around "find dead body/rape victim, find criminal, confrontation, etc". cop shows are def one of the most generic formats imaginable tho |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
| Nope, as I'm not really interested in western tv. |
 |
| Mmmh no not really. However i have yet to watch somthing that makes me laugh more then South park/Family Guy. |
Super-Milk-Chan said: Watch The Sopranos, The Wire, and Stranger things. I also heard Band of Brothers,Deadwood, Sherlock, Oz, Hannibal, and Boardwalk Empire are also greatI've finished Breaking Bad, and I'm up to date on shows like The Walking Dead (as of last Sunday) and Game of Thrones (unless s6 of GoT has started already?) I remember finishing awesome shows like True Blood, and the avatar stuff: The Last Air Bender/Legend of Korra. BUT these few western shows are the only examples of the exception of good quality entertainment that I can find in the west. It's still mostly anime that I watch, mostly anime that immerses me with their plots and dramatic shifts in tone. The only shows that I search for and look forward to are anime. It all comes down to taste, and the bold flavor of anime appeals much more to me than most of the bland wish-wash that passes as entertainment over here. Speaking of which, should I start on West World to see what that's all about? It's got Anthony Hopkins doesn't it? that does interest me |
| Sup... |
truisms said: Don't forget Most Original Tv shows on HBO, Netflix, Showtime, Amazon, Hulu, Cinemaxgabrielrroiz said: i hate most western tv series the lack of any development narratives in most of those and the fact most of those are composed by generic cop dramas(that have way less variety than the infamous school setting) make me prefer anime way more and no actually the character in evangelion are more complex than most of those in western fiction the wire really isn't a generic cop drama and there's a lot of character-related storytelling in it OT: not especially, beyond occasional very strong shows. there's certainly a lot of mediocre television in the states. there are also more television shows that are consistently more mature and ambitious than most anime - but there's still anime that demonstrate that same ambition (although they're very rare) |
| Sup... |
SenpaiJay98 said: truisms said: Don't forget Most Original Tv shows on HBO, Netflix, Showtime, Amazon, Hulu, Cinemaxthe wire really isn't a generic cop drama and there's a lot of character-related storytelling in it OT: not especially, beyond occasional very strong shows. there's certainly a lot of mediocre television in the states. there are also more television shows that are consistently more mature and ambitious than most anime - but there's still anime that demonstrate that same ambition (although they're very rare) naw, HBO has amazing television shows more consistently than anywhere else, but they also have shows that are prestige television without being great. netflix has the same problem anime has, which is too many quirky shows that appeal to a specific fanbase without being generally good - stranger things aside. can't really comment on the other ones but american television rn is more consistently great than anime, definitely |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
gabrielrroiz said: flannan said: That's a blatant lie. I have actually seen Avatar, and it's notably dumb, childish and full of american toilet humor. The only reason you could like it is because you're american. avatar is far more than whatever you are implying it does a great job with its characters(zuko character arc is great)and their interaction are always entertaining to watch it also presents a vast and well explored world that usually allows for some great worldbuilding and interesting exploration of the main ideas that are the base of the major cultures in that show i still would not rate it anymore than a 8 and ranking it among the best in anime is ridiculous Gotta give it to them, they did use their lots of episodes to great effect. Long-running shounen like Naruto have trouble doing that, because of their spontaneous nature. On the other hand, Legend of Galactic Heroes probably won't lose. |
| Personally I think a good anime always beats a good cartoon |
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