| I have some hard nostalgia for the 2000s, so I might be biased, but I honestly feel like anime, in terms of entertainment, appeal and storytelling, peaked in the 2000s and rode that wave until about 2012 or 2013, and that everything after that point has averaged to mediocre quick food for the eyes. Don't get me wrong there, in the "modern" era we've had SnK, BTR, Violet Evergarden and a lot of other really, really good anime, but alongside them, we've also had endless torrents of "I was reborn in another world as a [fill in the blank]", "school romcom #821" or "badass male character fights monsters #2871". It seems like the more grounded, serious and often more thoughtful plots of the anime of old have mostly disappeared. Like, when I think the 2000s I think of game-changing anime, think Suzumiya Haruhi, Lucky Star, K-On!, Clannad, and generally just great classics which have faded, like Azumanga Daioh, Elfen Lied, Gunslinger Girl, Kanon, Toradora, etc. I've watched anime from 2 decades ago and consistently found them fun. I guess this is still a nostalgia bias, but I'd argue that this era felt so much better because the catalog of anime available and the access to it was far more limited than it is now, and you'd usually not end up with huge backlogs or trying to pick among which of the 800 new isekai this season you're gonna stick with. This abundance of offer has sort of watered down the actual appeal of anime in my opinion, because everything becomes copious quickly and it is hard to separate the garbage from the gems. Would anyone else agree? |
| Pretend there's something flashy and cool here. |
| Hmm... For me, 2008-2022 were the best years. 1. 2016 2. 2019 3. 2017 4. 2018 5. 2015 2010s was really something special imo. |
SerafosMar 6, 10:38 PM
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| Thought this was a thewiru shitpost |
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| 80s, 90s, 00s, early 2010s, those are the best eras in my opinion. That said, saying that these eras didn't have their isekai-equivalent is just rose tinted glasses. Like the 00s and early 2010s were full of quick and cheap harem anime, people back then complained about them just as they do now about isekai. All eras have amazing shows, all eras have bad shows, but every era is incredibly unique to itself. It's hard to say anime peaked then as amazing shows still come out, such as your Violet Evergarden example, but I mostly watch stuff from like, 1980 - 2016 as that's just what I like the most personally. I would also say that it was easier to find anime diversity back then though, especially in the 90s and 00s, you had so many totally different shows coming out. Of course tons of creative shows still come out, Made in Abyss being a good example, but I feel like things have homogenized a bit in the current era of the 2020s. ImNotAnOtaku1 said: I'd argue that this era felt so much better because the catalog of anime available and the access to it was far more limited than it is now, and you'd usually not end up with huge backlogs Speak for yourself, my backlog was always absurd, even back then. |
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| Calling K-On! "more grounded, serious and often more thoughtful plots" is funny because if anything, girls' slice-of-life anime these days have evolved well beyond its episodic, low-stakes structure. Like, compare A Place Further Than The Universe or Love Live Superstar which have more defined plots and ambitious female characters. |
ImNotAnOtaku1 said: Don't get me wrong there, in the "modern" era we've had SnK, BTR, Violet Evergarden and a lot of other really, really good anime, but alongside them, we've also had endless torrents of "I was reborn in another world as a [fill in the blank]", "school romcom #821" or "badass male character fights monsters #2871". It seems like the more grounded, serious and often more thoughtful plots of the anime of old have mostly disappeared. Like, when I think the 2000s I think of game-changing anime, think Suzumiya Haruhi, Lucky Star, K-On!, Clannad, and generally just great classics which have faded, like Azumanga Daioh, Elfen Lied, Gunslinger Girl, Kanon, Toradora, etc. Compared to the 80s where you have mecha fight #245 (I mean hey I like them still mecha had way more control of the industry than isekai ever did), or when I saw this same post, in the late 2000s about how anime was dead because moe and ecchi had killed the medium? The shows you liked were hated by segments of the fandom for ruining anime lol I don't get you people, I barely watch isekai outside of the big popular ones and I always feel there is tons of new stuff seasons to season for me. How many shows do you need a year lol? Like Lazarus, Your Forma and Kowloon Generic Romance next season all look interesting to me, and not isekai. If you like the CGDCT genre, or surrealist comedy, City comes out this Summer (if it's anything like Nichijou). Then again I don't really care about VE like some and AOT had a pretty disappointing ending. Why do you guys constantly bring them up? Have you actually watched the banal trash shows from the 2000s and not famous shows? Cause you can make any decade look loaded if you just name critically well regarded series. I guess this is still a nostalgia bias, but I'd argue that this era felt so much better I actually think the 2000s was a particularly good decade, mostly because it had a lot of variety however, I will be honest your argument is just entirely nostalgia googles. If you are going to compare highly rated works, you have to throw them up against the highly rated works of this decade like Freiren, Chainsaw Man or Bocchi the Rock! You are not comparing Frieren to Midori no Hibi lol. |
BilboBaggins365Mar 6, 9:49 PM
| I'm sorry to say... you might be just old. Or just burned out. As someone who started in 2019, I'm pretty happy with what we've been getting. It could definitely be better though, but when is that ever not the case? I have tried but don't really have much love for Haruhi, K-On, Toradora and Azumanga Daioh... To me they're products of their time, and I think I should've been there in the 2000's/10's to really enjoy and appreciate them. |
| imo nostalgia tends to filter the unmemorable garbage out You only remember shows like (for example) Haruhi because they're the only ones worth remembering The same thing will happen in 20 years for this era, we're gonna mention (for example) Bocchi and Frieren while forgetting about the isekai/third-string romance shows while denigrating the 2040s for what they're producing in the moment |
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| It wasn't long ago when Apothecary Diaries, Frieren, Dungeon Meshi, and Dangers in My Heart were all airing around the same time. Pluto had a batch release as well. There's still a ton of great shows coming out, early 2010s definitely has alot of cool stuff though like Steins Gate, Penguindrum and Kyousougiga. I plan on checking out Tatami Galaxy soon |
I'd say we still are getting better. I mean amazing new shows release every year take Horimiya for example that aired in 2021 and 2023 and is some of the best romance anime we have ever gotten. Stuff such as Re:Zero and Friren are all considered masterpieces (Although i haven't watched them myself) But they all aired in the 2020's So i'd say the peak of anime is always. There is always amazing anime airing. |
| I kinda agree. I only started properly watching anime recently but I notice I usually prefer series from the early 2010's and earlier over stuff getting released today, though it might just be an issue of personal preference. There's still good stuff coming out every season and I think the best anime coming out right now is just as good as the best anime coming out back then. |
| There's many angles towards this rather simple question: Do you desire less, but quality adaptations, even if they aren't the best in terms of standard production for the time? Then the 2000s are definitely worth exploring into. I remember in my early days lots of J.C.Staff shows, quality shows at that from Zero no Tsukaima to ToraDora, around the late 2000s, and it was the change to more quality that made studios stand out for what they are going into the 2010s. The 2010s brought out more diversity (before SAO would turn the Isekai formula upside down), though we're still in the clear appreciating shows both mainstream and niche like weeaboos, and being fine about it. Production got a boost too around this time, and it's the advent of pioneering techniques. When it comes to the modern heydays of the 2020s, more than just COVID alone, garbage was all around, from shitty shows to shitty people just being toxins. And we're already well halfway into that timeline, and things have gotten better, though at the sacrifice of quality with quantity, though occasionally you'll have the Bocchis, Apothecaries and Frierens to justify this. And going forward...2020s will NEVER be like what the 2010s and before will be, but they're just byproducts of their time, that's as much I can say about it. |
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| I watch almost anything in various era (except those old 90's anime) and yes i have same sentiment with you. |
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| I think that there's a third possibility. Every one of us has grown up with some selection of shows. It differs from person to person, but every person has some set of formative experiences. Then, once we have a set of tastes, opinions on things comes with those tastes. And depending on trends in media, which may drift to or away from what we like to see, our takes on how things are at any point in time can change. Easy example: someone who grew up with a profusion of classic mecha shows is not gonna like how few of them there are nowadays. So, eventually, there might be someone who grew up during these times when there's a profusion of isekai shows, and they're gonna complain that this fad has died out. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| You do know that you can test this right now by just watching anime from that time period, right? That's what I'm doing right now. And yes, it was better back then. |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
ImNotAnOtaku1 said:
Don't get me wrong there, in the "modern" era we've had SnK, BTR, Violet Evergarden and a lot of other really, really good anime, but alongside them, we've also had endless torrents of "I was reborn in another world as a [fill in the blank]", "school romcom #821" or "badass male character fights monsters #2871". It seems like the more grounded, serious and often more thoughtful plots of the anime of old have mostly disappeared. Like, when I think the 2000s I think of game-changing anime, think Suzumiya Haruhi, Lucky Star, K-On!, Clannad, and generally just great classics which have faded, like Azumanga Daioh, Elfen Lied, Gunslinger Girl, Kanon, Toradora, etc.
Don't get me wrong there, in the "modern" era we've had SnK, BTR, Violet Evergarden and a lot of other really, really good anime, but alongside them, we've also had endless torrents of "I was reborn in another world as a [fill in the blank]", "school romcom #821" or "badass male character fights monsters #2871". It seems like the more grounded, serious and often more thoughtful plots of the anime of old have mostly disappeared. Like, when I think the 2000s I think of game-changing anime, think Suzumiya Haruhi, Lucky Star, K-On!, Clannad, and generally just great classics which have faded, like Azumanga Daioh, Elfen Lied, Gunslinger Girl, Kanon, Toradora, etc.
Compared to the 80s where you have mecha fight #245 (I mean hey I like them still mecha had way more control of the industry than isekai ever did), or when I saw this same post, in the late 2000s about how anime was dead because moe and ecchi had killed the medium? The shows you liked were hated by segments of the fandom for ruining anime lol
I don't get you people, I barely watch isekai outside of the big popular ones and I always feel there is tons of new stuff seasons to season for me. How many shows do you need a year lol? Like Lazarus, Your Forma and Kowloon Generic Romance next season all look interesting to me, and not isekai. If you like the CGDCT genre, or surrealist comedy, City comes out this Summer (if it's anything like Nichijou). Then again I don't really care about VE like some and AOT had a pretty disappointing ending. Why do you guys constantly bring them up? Have you actually watched the banal trash shows from the 2000s and not famous shows? Cause you can make any decade look loaded if you just name critically well regarded series.
I guess this is still a nostalgia bias, but I'd argue that this era felt so much better
I actually think the 2000s was a particularly good decade, mostly because it had a lot of variety however, I will be honest your argument is just entirely nostalgia googles. If you are going to compare highly rated works, you have to throw them up against the highly rated works of this decade like Freiren, Chainsaw Man or Bocchi the Rock! You are not comparing Frieren to Midori no Hibi lol.
BilboBaggins365 said: I saw this same post, in the late 2000s about how anime was dead because moe and ecchi had killed the medium? The shows you liked were hated by segments of the fandom for ruining anime lol I call this "the great filtering" and I'm glad that it happened. Fuck Toonamiboos and manimetards. |
| Never been an issue for me. If anything I’ve found it easier to find things to watch. Back when I first started, I was just picking random stuff and hoping I’d enjoy it. Now I’m pretty good at knowing what I’m more likely ro enjoy. I came to terms with the similarities in plots and characters a long time ago for the most part. I’ve come to terms with not everything having the best writing. In fact I don’t even think most of my favorites from the 2000’s and 2010’s had that greatly written of a plot looking back. |
| It's a local peak in my rating graph, and my explaination is like this. If one looks at the history of procution funding and story writing, we had a creative explosion in the OVAs end of the 80s. There was an economic boom in Japan and money was put in many risky projects, which always leads to unique shows which a sticter budget had stopped. Then came a major stock and real estate crash, and only "safe bets" were produced. The result was a reduced offer and boring shows. Consumers got bored with GAR, mecha and space opera at about the same time. Then came Evangelion (1995) which has major commerical success with a leftfield story and production. Adults were discovered as an audience, the late night TV slot (23:00) was introduced. Anime had grown up. As a result, multiple left-field/avantgarde shows got produced and some of them, e.g. Utena and Lain, became a success. Now the reverse effect happened and the money, which was back with producers, tried to repeat this. Now many one-in-a-kind stories got produced, many of them really good. Experiments were now fine, innovation took place. Of course a lot of garbage got produced too, but overall it as a period of change and variety. This kept going for a few years and peaked in 2006, in my opinion. Then slowly things got formulaic again, and some experiments lost money big time. Then the moe revolution in character design and story took place and created tons of money. Haruhi and K-On formalized the trope and the innovative age was ended by a flood of moe blob shows. Which I love, but which do not offer the artistic freedom we had between 1995 and 2006. Long story short: Anime has phases of bloom, innovation, change and growth, and for sure the 2000s were such a time. As were the 2nd half of the 1980s. We have times of formulaic standstill, e.g.the early 90s and most of the 2010s. I feel currently we are in a time of change onec more. It's a pig cycle. |
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| I'd say it's subjective. I'm in a different kind of situation than many people, as I've had a very large gap of not watching anything, so it's very hard for me to say. The period from 2006 to 2023 (a pretty long time) was when I had that gap. I was always watching anime in the late 90s and early 00s. I was a member of the local anime club, and was even asked to run for president of the club, as I was very knowledgeable about anime at the time. I have a preference for 80s and 90s anime, but that's what I watched back then. I moved to Japan in 2005 and watched a bit on TV until I just found it too difficult to follow along every week. But after about 2 years of watching again, I do have to say that the shows back then often had a feeling about them that was unique. Because anime is now mass produced, there are so many clones, I guess you could say. Back in the last century, less was available, and they were all special in their own way. That 2006-2023 period is still mostly a mystery to me, as I haven't really watched much from that time. Honestly, I couldn't say one way or the other if it has peaked for me at all. I'm just having fun getting back into it by watching both old and new. |
| Natsukashii Anime, reviewer of anime old and new, with an emphasis on nostalgia. Natsukashii Anime Reviews |
| "Did anime peak in the 2000s/early 10s" I mean, that was the last golden era...not the first one tho...and I hope not the last. Also you can have pretty great individual shows outside of those eras. So maybe "last peak in production quality on average", but definitely not the last time we had great anime. "or are we just burned out?" 2023, 2024 and what we have seen from 2025 gave us some good individual projects, but on average are quite trashy. |
alshuMar 7, 12:44 AM
| In my opinion, anime got really good starting in the early 2010s, 'peaked' around the mid-2010s (my favorite years probably being 2014, 2015 and 2017), but is still pretty good nowadays. Most of my favorites and most rewatched anime series aired during that time period anyway :) |
MeguSae38Mar 7, 12:25 AM
ImNotAnOtaku1 said: "I was reborn in another world as a [fill in the blank]", "school romcom #821" Ah yes peaks of anime✌️(seriously) Maybe there is a simple explanation. In those times there wasn't 50 seasonal shows so less "garbage" according to you. And you see 30 garabge out of those in your eyes that will stand out more than say when they made 10-15 seasonals and then had 8-9 garabge among them. In turn you also have 5-10 atleast good enough shows each season compared to 2-5 that time. Cherry picking best from last and worst from now is just nostalgia merchanting. |
| It's just being overproduced these days. By overproduced I dont mean quality or budget but quantity. When there is more general overall quality drops some across the range, though there is still good ones that do appear just less degree. |
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| Anime peaked every year according to the biases of many individuals. |
| Its individual - for me its since 2010+ as the best era because at this year type of animation changed to better (at least in my opinion). You find people that enjoy only 2020+ also people that enjoy only 1999-. Also it really depends on studios. You have studios that are here really long and their animes remain same quality regardless of year or original source. Also some that might be great but their original source pick is terrible even if their animation/art level is greatest again regardless of year. |
hiraishinxMar 7, 1:20 AM
| I disagree. The 2020s might become my favorite era, but maybe I wouldn't think the same if I didn't dig deep enough to find every hidden gem and I only watched the few most popular anime of every season. Most people will be biased towards the anime they grew up with. The ultimate test would be finding out how many anime fans who didn't grow up with Suzumiya Haruhi, Lucky Star, K-On!, Clannad, Azumanga Daioh, Elfen Lied, Gunslinger Girl, Kanon and Toradora think that these anime are still some of the best ever made; if we take their MAL score as reference, most of them dropped significantly in the last 15 years (which doesn't mean that they aren't good anymore, but that the newest generation of anime fans aren't appreciating them as much as other older anime that stood the test of time). |
| For me I don't care decades anymore people fight for their favorite"golden era" so I gonna watch what interesting no matter what generation (yep even the 60s ones) Since people will fight "this generation is peak" or "no my generation has some best story" I just look for myself and see if this the best. |
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| Anime peaked and declined many times depending on your period perspective and selected genre. |
| slop and good stuff has always been around, so it's pointless generalizing periods like that. |
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| Sounds like you are burned out or just feeling nostalgic. That's okay it's a normal human condition. The way I see it there's always been cash grab slop just the sheer amount of anime produced makes the amount of slop more these days by count but I don't think it's more slop percentage wise. And personally I think anime peaked in the 90s since a lot of thematic, style wise, story telling wise things were different and I like that a lot. That's just what I feel, anime peaks whenever someone says it peaked. It's subjective |
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| For anyone making OPs argument I would point them towards the top 50 anime on MAL so they can see how many entries are from recent years. If anything we are still in the golden age on anime and I'm saying this as someone who has been watching for over 20 years. |
| Probably just burned out, I will say that time period had done absolute greats but I also know where there is gold is a mountain of trash |
Sometimes it takes a real man to be best girl. Gilgamesh is also chad.   |
| I don't care. Anime was never that good to begin with. |
Reply to thewiru
BilboBaggins365 said:
I saw this same post, in the late 2000s about how anime was dead because moe and ecchi had killed the medium? The shows you liked were hated by segments of the fandom for ruining anime lol
I saw this same post, in the late 2000s about how anime was dead because moe and ecchi had killed the medium? The shows you liked were hated by segments of the fandom for ruining anime lol
I call this "the great filtering" and I'm glad that it happened.
Fuck Toonamiboos and manimetards.
| @thewiru I mean I don't actually care if people hate K-On! or not. I just think, mainly when comparing entire mediums of entertainment, just cherry picking is a bad argument, which this thread did. If you hate to say I hate modern anime because they killed sci fi/mecha or I don't like old anime because there isn't enough SOL shows, then that is fine. |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
@thewiru I mean I don't actually care if people hate K-On! or not. I just think, mainly when comparing entire mediums of entertainment, just cherry picking is a bad argument, which this thread did. If you hate to say I hate modern anime because they killed sci fi/mecha or I don't like old anime because there isn't enough SOL shows, then that is fine.
| @BilboBaggins365 Don't worry, I'm aware of that. I once made a thread with this 1995 copypasta to teach people that those types of doomer complaints were nothing new. |
Reply to thewiru
@BilboBaggins365
Don't worry, I'm aware of that.
I once made a thread with this 1995 copypasta to teach people that those types of doomer complaints were nothing new.
Don't worry, I'm aware of that.
I once made a thread with this 1995 copypasta to teach people that those types of doomer complaints were nothing new.
| @thewiru Well yeah I am just saying that I don't like cherry picking. I honestly don't understand why people harp on isekai so much. Like if you ever hear people talking about the best anime of the year or just casuals mentioning what big show they liked it's almost never isekai. Why do people care these shows exist? There is tons of other anime that come out. There always has been glut. Like I mean I have scanned through year by year, decade by decade and there is just so much stuff that no one cares about anymore, either because they are hidden gems or just glut. Would I like more anime to be of quality sure? Would I like Western High fantasy stories to be better in the medium sure (and I think it looks better of late) however, that doesn't mean the industry sucks lol. |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
@thewiru Well yeah I am just saying that I don't like cherry picking. I honestly don't understand why people harp on isekai so much. Like if you ever hear people talking about the best anime of the year or just casuals mentioning what big show they liked it's almost never isekai. Why do people care these shows exist? There is tons of other anime that come out. There always has been glut.
Like I mean I have scanned through year by year, decade by decade and there is just so much stuff that no one cares about anymore, either because they are hidden gems or just glut.
Would I like more anime to be of quality sure? Would I like Western High fantasy stories to be better in the medium sure (and I think it looks better of late) however, that doesn't mean the industry sucks lol.
Like I mean I have scanned through year by year, decade by decade and there is just so much stuff that no one cares about anymore, either because they are hidden gems or just glut.
Would I like more anime to be of quality sure? Would I like Western High fantasy stories to be better in the medium sure (and I think it looks better of late) however, that doesn't mean the industry sucks lol.
| @BilboBaggins365 Nowadays we use the term "slop" instead. I also remember people complaining about "too much isekai" when we only had six per year. Now we have double that... per season. I guess it's like complaining that there's "too much air in my Ruffles bag". |
| First, good that you are having fun watching the past. But... Shows back then butchered the original material -> https://myanimelist.net/anime/167/Scrapped_Princess , https://myanimelist.net/anime/120/Fruits_Basket , FMA 03 ImNotAnOtaku1 said: it is hard to separate the garbage from the gems Yes, you weren't doing seasonals back them. Unless the source was already proven good no fansub was picking a seasonal. So it was a bigger filter by the fansubs than there is by now. Your anime was already completed, and pre selected from multiple years and seasons. It is egregious, but the diverse non isekai shows also get split in streaming. Disney+ kidnapping Summer time render for example. Netflix with BNA. In the end that is why we join mal. |
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| I don't know. Since 2019 I haven't seen as much as I used to. So for me the 10s were really bad, and the 20s are ok, but I would probably consider them really bad too if I were to watch more stuff. |
Reply to thewiru
@BilboBaggins365
Nowadays we use the term "slop" instead.
I also remember people complaining about "too much isekai" when we only had six per year.
Now we have double that... per season.
I guess it's like complaining that there's "too much air in my Ruffles bag".
Nowadays we use the term "slop" instead.
I also remember people complaining about "too much isekai" when we only had six per year.
Now we have double that... per season.
I guess it's like complaining that there's "too much air in my Ruffles bag".
| @thewiru thewiru said: And you have more shows per season, and less ecchi which isekai has taken the place off in terms of wish fulfilment. Ergo nothing has changed. Even if you want to go back to the pre 2000s, sure you had less glut, you had less shows too, so bad ones are more impactful. IDK I just feel like we get a lot of stuff. Now we have double that... per season. |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
@thewiru
thewiru said:
Now we have double that... per season.
And you have more shows per season, and less ecchi which isekai has taken the place off in terms of wish fulfilment. Ergo nothing has changed. Even if you want to go back to the pre 2000s, sure you had less glut, you had less shows too, so bad ones are more impactful. IDK I just feel like we get a lot of stuff. Now we have double that... per season.
| @BilboBaggins365 Ah, that was just me saying "People complained about it even before it actually became a problem". |
Reply to HEBl
For anyone making OPs argument I would point them towards the top 50 anime on MAL so they can see how many entries are from recent years.
If anything we are still in the golden age on anime and I'm saying this as someone who has been watching for over 20 years.
If anything we are still in the golden age on anime and I'm saying this as someone who has been watching for over 20 years.
| @HEBl To be fair this is biased, because most of MAL's userbase is not people from the 2000s, and you can just realize this by checking Suzumiya Haruhi's popularity ranking, which is extremely low for an anime that was otherwise extremely well-known some 15 years ago. Most modern anime viewers watch mostly modern anime, particularly casual ones, so the ratings come mainly from people who don't regularly watch or even know old anime. |
| Pretend there's something flashy and cool here. |
| Well it definitely peaked many years ago. The shows produced in the 2020s are generally of relatively poor quality. |
| Good question. I'm in the U.S. and I remember the major hype with anime in the 2000s and then the 2010s. I felt that hype and it was quite astounding. As for today, the hype is no longer around. I don't know if we burned out on it. |
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