| sit down and listen kids, scores from illegitimate accounts are not counted in the final score but still show up on the stats tab read this https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1824703 only old timers know the real greatest anime of all time are pingu and ishuzoku reviewers |
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| The stats section includes the votes given by bots and fake accounts (and I guess also the votes of those who dropped it before watching 1/5 of that entry), hence the difference. But MAL can't do anything against legit accounts of fanboys downvoting the opponents. If you want a more reliable ranking, there's RedditAnimeList: http://www.redditanimelist.net/ |
| This place will be doomed if some other series took over FMAB's position. |
| another one who cares about this list.. |
Nirinbo said: The stats section includes the votes given by bots and fake accounts (and I guess also the votes of those who dropped it before watching 1/5 of that entry), hence the difference. But MAL can't do anything against legit accounts of fanboys downvoting the opponents. If you want a more reliable ranking, there's RedditAnimeList: http://www.redditanimelist.net/ Wow I wasn't expecting reddit list to be good but all of my favorites are in top 50 in it. That's pretty cool. |
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| If you wanna see the real list of top anime of all time, check my profile |
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kemalitooo said: I wanted to see the validity of the top anime list on MAL so I went to the stats section of some of the top anime to see if their average scores were accurate. While this is probably a result of MAL not updating new scores for older anime instead of rigging, it does raise the question of the existence of such a list if the website won't bother to use the updated scores for them. Oh no the world's gonna end, guess I'll go back to what I was doing. |
  『ᴅᴇᴍᴏɴ-ʟɪᴋᴇ ᴊᴜᴅɢᴇ ᴏꜰ ꜰɪʀᴇ』 Then her jaw slackened as she muttered out. [I... am the bi◼️?] ☽ † ☾ - ᴅᴇʟɪᴠᴇʀɪᴇꜱ- ꜱɪɢ ᴍᴀᴅᴇ ʙʏ ʜᴜᴍᴀɴᴛᴡɪɢ |
| I don't even care about rankings anymore, it's all been a big waste of time anyway. Nirinbo said: But MAL can't do anything against legit accounts of fanboys downvoting the opponents. If you want a more reliable ranking, there's RedditAnimeList: http://www.redditanimelist.net/ If this list is actually accurate then MAL seriously needs to step up their game. I mean there are rankings that vary a lot. Like some rankings have a +100 ranking whereas some have -55 rankings from the one we see on the site. |
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| I'm going to create a top anime list on my future blog posts. Basically I'm going to exclude scores from people that are not true anime fans. What does that mean? When I calculate the new average scores, I'm going to exclude MAL accounts UNLESS they meet these standards: 1) Have logged into MAL within a year. 2) Have made at least two forum posts. 3) Have said something they actually like or dislike about the anime they scored. (in a review or forum post) Number 2 and number 3 are for extra proof that the person is a legitimate account, and because I only want to count the scores from people that publicly defend their opinion. |
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kemalitooo said: Nirinbo said: The stats section includes the votes given by bots and fake accounts (and I guess also the votes of those who dropped it before watching 1/5 of that entry), hence the difference. But MAL can't do anything against legit accounts of fanboys downvoting the opponents. If you want a more reliable ranking, there's RedditAnimeList: http://www.redditanimelist.net/ How was this list made? Isn't it a much smaller number of voters? It's made of the users who linked their MAL and Reddit accounts. The sample size is much smaller and that's why it's not a perfect metric, but I like that it doesn't seem tainted by FMAB fanboys' vote brigading. |
| MAL’s scores are shit that’s all |
Passing_time said: MAL’s scores are shit that’s all I have a solution for that. See my post above.~ |
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Nirinbo said: The stats section includes the votes given by bots and fake accounts (and I guess also the votes of those who dropped it before watching 1/5 of that entry), hence the difference. But MAL can't do anything against legit accounts of fanboys downvoting the opponents. If you want a more reliable ranking, there's RedditAnimeList: http://www.redditanimelist.net/ Wow I actually kind of prefer this list a bit more. Seeing a Monogatari season above a 9.00 is kind of nice and Steins;Gate is still ranked. |
| I like how the OP and the first reply both have Eren profile pics and like 3 forum posts each. Anyway, the top list doesn't matter in anyway. Some people in the forum have already explained how the list is made. There are also conspiracies about certain mods and the top list but lets keep that on the down low :) No one likes the top list because everyone has their own list. Stop thinking of the list as "the best anime of all time" and think of it as a general popularity list. Even if the list is somehow manipulated and faked by the CIA's secret anime division, I don't know how that affects you in anyway. Literally every anime site has a different list so you could argue that the lists aren't ever valid in anyway. |
NuggeyFeb 3, 2022 4:00 AM
| Meow meow meow meow and meow shogi, meow meow meow meow and meow shogi. Taking one step a time, I work and try my best. Though I'm the weakest of the bunch, Expect from me a good paw punch! Meow meow pawn, meow shogi. |
Nirinbo said: The stats section includes the votes given by bots and fake accounts (and I guess also the votes of those who dropped it before watching 1/5 of that entry), hence the difference. But MAL can't do anything against legit accounts of fanboys downvoting the opponents. If you want a more reliable ranking, there's RedditAnimeList: http://www.redditanimelist.net/ >lotgh >your name above the sad bully movie It's embarrassing to admit but reddit is pretty based in this case. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| MAL scores are not something which are needed to be taken seriously. |
| MAL has weighted scores. They exclude scores from people who have seen less than 1/5 of the show and they also use a bayesian average so that anime with more votes are rewarded for having more accurate data by receiving a better overall score (since MAL sets their minimum at 100 votes the anime at the top don't generally have too much variance in this, but anime hovering just above 100 votes won't have mean scores that directly reflect their votes even excluding the invalid votes). I don't think you really want to have all anime ranked just by raw data without any kind of oversight. Imagine if just some random anime no one has ever heard of all always #1 because someone would discover it, rate it 10, and then it being there gets people curious, they downvote it, and then the cycle continues with a different anime. Having these calculations in place is important. |
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And why do you care? You seem to have a lot of anger for these "normies" you're talking about. The top list doesn't mean anything to anyone, no matter if you like it or not. Thus you have no reason to care whether others like it or not. Just like these heinous criminals known as ""normies"" don't care that you don't like it. |
| Meow meow meow meow and meow shogi, meow meow meow meow and meow shogi. Taking one step a time, I work and try my best. Though I'm the weakest of the bunch, Expect from me a good paw punch! Meow meow pawn, meow shogi. |
kemalitooo said: I wanted to see the validity of the top anime list on MAL so I went to the stats section of some of the top anime to see if their average scores were accurate. Turns out FMA is not actually number 1 as its actual average score is 9.04 instead of 9.15. The difference with Gintama° is even crazier, while its score on the list is given as 9.09, its real score comes out to 8.84. While Attack on Titan S4 P2 has an accurate score, the score for S3 P2 is slightly lower than what is shown at 9.06. So my calculations show that AOT S4 P2 sits comfortably at first place right now with S3 P2 at second place. While this is probably a result of MAL not updating new scores for older anime instead of rigging, it does raise the question of the existence of such a list if the website won't bother to use the updated scores for them. sigh You're not operating above the MAL devs or anything, understand that. There's a reason they use an averaging system that discounts spamming and bots. Your process of going out of your way to include these by sticking to the histogram is counterintuitive, if anything. I see not the point of this post. |
Please sign up for MangAlert! It's a little project I made that I'd really like to see the light of day and some users. MangAlert! (please sign up!) GitHub Repo (please star!) |
nesansama said: Nuggey said: And why do you care? You seem to have a lot of anger for these "normies" you're talking about. The top list doesn't mean anything to anyone, no matter if you like it or not. Thus you have no reason to care whether others like it or not. Just like these heinous criminals known as ""normies"" don't care that you don't like it. I like the fact I triggered you without even trying that you typed a short paragraph to explain meaningless stuff . Do please keep the salt coming, my fries are pretty lonely kek. Yeah you got me! How did you know I take everything from random nothing accounts baiting people seriously ??? Darn, give me a break man! Your plans are much too smart for me ! |
| Meow meow meow meow and meow shogi, meow meow meow meow and meow shogi. Taking one step a time, I work and try my best. Though I'm the weakest of the bunch, Expect from me a good paw punch! Meow meow pawn, meow shogi. |
nesansama said: Nuggey said: Yeah you got me! How did you know I take everything from random nothing accounts baiting people seriously ??? Darn, give me a break man! Your plans are much too smart for me ! I like people who take everything at face value on the net and then get salty over nothing all the while hiding behind the mask of irony to pretend they are not salty. You could be my new best friend since you are so much fun. :):) You didn't have to reply twice with the same thing, I know how much you love me :) |
| Meow meow meow meow and meow shogi, meow meow meow meow and meow shogi. Taking one step a time, I work and try my best. Though I'm the weakest of the bunch, Expect from me a good paw punch! Meow meow pawn, meow shogi. |
| Yes indeed, the scores are only real if we count all the bots and downvotes. Any other input on what constitutes reality? Nirinbo said: The stats section includes the votes given by bots and fake accounts (and I guess also the votes of those who dropped it before watching 1/5 of that entry), hence the difference. But MAL can't do anything against legit accounts of fanboys downvoting the opponents. If you want a more reliable ranking, there's RedditAnimeList: http://www.redditanimelist.net/ What kind of random BS is that? How were these accounts selected to be the only ones counting? Is it just handpicking random accounts, most of which haven't been active in years, to handcraft your personal top 100 and pretending there is any legitimacy to that? It doesn't make any sense to me. Dramatically decreasing the sample size compared to MAL only makes this less reliable, even if we assume there wasn't any intentional tempering with the results based on user selection (which I strongly doubt since it's reddit). |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Very interesting! I've never made the effort to check the numbers. If that's true than the old one's can't be trusted. Only question is why does MAL not update them... |
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Tendo_GM said: no no , check ma profile. Yours maybe gud in normal world but mine works in heaven.If you wanna see the real list of top anime of all time, check my profile |
| "I think I wanted to attack something. Like betraying people or hurting people. And, well, it's not exactly nice, but hurting the readers too... In all honestly, I feel that's what I really wanted to do. For me, as a reader, when I think, "this manga will remain in my heart," it means, for example, it phenomenally hurt me: It's those kinds of experiences I'm after." - Pajime Hisayama (My favourite hurting author). |
kevin8 said: Very interesting! I've never made the effort to check the numbers. If that's true than the old one's can't be trusted. Only question is why does MAL not update them... Do you read anything beyond the OP? His whole argument has already been debunken and the reasons for the discrepancies explained. This is literally how misinformation spreads, people just reading a headline or opening post and taking it for fact without even attempting to look any further into it :/. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Cladocera said: DeonX said: The answer is no it isn't "more accurate" statistically speaking. Yes some might look at it and say it's accurate because it aligns more with their ratings, however MAL ranking has hundreds of thousands to millions of users contributed so generally it should be more reliable compared to just a few thousands. The only advantage of this list over MAL's is the claim that is was not infested by [insert anime] fanboys which is, eh, non-verifiable at best.I don't even care about rankings anymore, it's all been a big waste of time anyway. If this list is actually accurate then MAL seriously needs to step up their game. I mean there are rankings that vary a lot. Like some rankings have a +100 ranking whereas some have -55 rankings from the one we see on the site. Eh so we can never get reliable scores huh? |
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Alcoholicide said: Nirinbo said: The stats section includes the votes given by bots and fake accounts (and I guess also the votes of those who dropped it before watching 1/5 of that entry), hence the difference. But MAL can't do anything against legit accounts of fanboys downvoting the opponents. If you want a more reliable ranking, there's RedditAnimeList: http://www.redditanimelist.net/ What kind of random BS is that? How were these accounts selected to be the only ones counting? Is it just handpicking random accounts, most of which haven't been active in years, to handcraft your personal top 100 and pretending there is any legitimacy to that? It doesn't make any sense to me. Dramatically decreasing the sample size compared to MAL only makes this less reliable, even if we assume there wasn't any intentional tempering with the results based on user selection (which I strongly doubt since it's reddit). I don't think it's a coincidence that every anime whose MAL score is hurt by vote brigading (I mean legit accounts rating 1s to downvote their favorite's competitors, so unaffected by the anti-bot system) is rated higher on RedditAnimeList. My explanation is that this small sample size isn't completely random and the ones to blame (FMAB and Vinland Saga petty fanboys for the most part) for some reason were less likely to link their MAL and Reddit accounts. As a matter of fact, RAL's users have a lower average score than MAL's (6.0 vs 6.7). Feel free to provide another explanation if you have one. Of course, I don't mean that RAL = The Bible and MAL = shit, but that it's worth looking at the differences between the two and trying to understand why. |
Nirinbo said: Alcoholicide said: What kind of random BS is that? How were these accounts selected to be the only ones counting? Is it just handpicking random accounts, most of which haven't been active in years, to handcraft your personal top 100 and pretending there is any legitimacy to that? It doesn't make any sense to me. Dramatically decreasing the sample size compared to MAL only makes this less reliable, even if we assume there wasn't any intentional tempering with the results based on user selection (which I strongly doubt since it's reddit). I don't think it's a coincidence that every anime whose MAL score is hurt by vote brigading (I mean legit accounts rating 1s to downvote their favorite's competitors, so unaffected by the anti-bot system) is rated higher on RedditAnimeList. My explanation is that this small sample size isn't completely random and the ones to blame (FMAB and Vinland Saga petty fanboys for the most part) for some reason were less likely to link their MAL and Reddit accounts. As a matter of fact, RAL's users have a lower average score than MAL's (6.0 vs 6.7). Feel free to provide another explanation if you have one. Of course, I don't mean that RAL = The Bible and MAL = shit, but that it's worth looking at the differences between the two and trying to understand why. My issue is exactly that there is no transparency as to how these users were selected and no argument as to why the small sample size shouldn't be responsible for statistical aberrations on the site. Or why only counting reddit users should be any improvement to accurace and not just create a bias based on all of them coming from the environment/potential echo chamber? Can anyone link their account or what are the prerequisites? How do you know people don't hatevote when they link their account? Is there anyone who checks these things or is it just a free for all, basically like MAL but less known and therefore less popular and specific to reddit? Without transparency I'm automatically skeptical of anything like that. And if it's just users linking their own lists like you seem to suggest, it's literally the same as MAL just with a much, much smaller sample size and therefore statistically less reliable results. There is nothing in there that makes me believe those scores or the people linking those accounts are any more legit than the average MAL user. The people who fake lists or hatevote on MAL can just as well do so on reddit. In fact I'd assume that's where some of them go to find likeminded people and escape the 'MAL casuals' that make them into hatevoters. At best this list compiles the top 100 for a specific subset of the anime fandom, the reddit users, and shows how their taste skews in comparison to the average anime fan. It is interesting in that regard, basically removing most casuals who won't go out of their way to reddit but might have a MAL account they update occasionally, leaving us with a top 100 of more veteran, more hardcore fans, specifically reddit users and therefore a lot of the critically acclaimed shows have higher scores than they do on MAL where more casuals just vote based on feelings and their gut. But you could probably fix the top 100 to look somewhat like that in various other ways. Like only counting users with an average score between 4 and 6, or only counting users with more than 500 anime on their list. In all of these cases there's a conscious selection process that ends up manipulating the result so it looks different from the MAL top 100 which doesn't preselect whose vote it counts and has a much larger sample size and therefore less standard deviation. The only difference with the reddit thing (if it works like you say) is that the selection process isn't a conscious decision but a passive result of where you get the users from. It's still just a skewed version of the top 100, overall less accurate and less representative of the average anime watcher than MALs top 100. You could do the same with any subset of anime fans, any anime subfandom and have results that differ a lot from the MAL top 100. But the MAL top 100 who average out ALL these different fandoms and subsets will always be more accurate and representative. tl;dr: I just don't see any reason to believe that the difference in the top 100 is just a result of more honest and accurate voters and not just a result of taking a specific subset of anime fans (redditors) and giving us their top 100, showcasing their specific tastes, instead of a top 100 of the overall anime community like we get on MAL where the redditors taste and the ecchi fans taste and the casuals taste are all averaged out together with a million other subsets of the fandom. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| TL;DR another score thread like this? Amazes me how people see the scores as perfecto way of legitimizing that so-and-so anime is No. 1. |
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Alcoholicide said: At best this list compiles the top 100 for a specific subset of the anime fandom, the reddit users, and shows how their taste skews in comparison to the average anime fan. It is interesting in that regard, basically removing most casuals who won't go out of their way to reddit but might have a MAL account they update occasionally, leaving us with a top 100 of more veteran, more hardcore fans, specifically reddit users and therefore a lot of the critically acclaimed shows have higher scores than they do on MAL where more casuals just vote based on feelings and their gut. Not gonna lie, my train of thoughts was indeed "reducing the % of casuals" -> "reducing the impact of vote brigading". You're saying that removing the casuals will affect scores more than vote brigading and it makes sense; rather than RAL, I also think that the best solution would be what you said below: Alcoholicide said: But you could probably fix the top 100 to look somewhat like that in various other ways. Like only counting users with an average score between 4 and 6, or only counting users with more than 500 anime on their list. In all of these cases there's a conscious selection process that ends up manipulating the result so it looks different from the MAL top 100 which doesn't preselect whose vote it counts and has a much larger sample size and therefore less standard deviation. That's exactly what I want and I'd gladly pay a monthly fee for something like that. Complete control over filtering options would be extremely useful. The possibilities are countless, for example I'd like to ignore the scores of users with a standard deviation above 4.00 (= rating everything either 10 or 1). Or, if I wanted better custom recommendations, I could see how the top 100 would be if we only count users with at least half of my favorites corresponding to theirs. |
| Wasn't @Erebus_Akeldama supposed to redo the top 50 with the council members of culture? |
_spoon_ said: Wasn't @Erebus_Akeldama supposed to redo the top 50 with the council members of culture? shhhhhh don't tell them xD But nah, it's hella hard to gather all the members sinse each of us live in different time zones, so I'm not sure if it's a possibility |
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| You really didn't stop to consider there might be a reason for that, huh? lol |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
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