| As most of you may know, the "shounen" category is made for a young public (12-18 years old). Shounen animes/mangas often are criticized for being "stupid, cliché, repetitive, childish (lol)...", even if there is a good story being shown for the spectator (subjective point here). So, what are your thoughts about "battle shounen" genre? Do you think it will always be very criticized for being...standard? Even if, stupid as it may be, can show a good message for the viewer (most commons like "never give up about your dreams"; "even if you are in a bad mood, your friends will be there for you"; "redemption"...)? |
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| It's gotten to be the same old formula put into place, time and time again simply because it works; and while yes it may work, it doesn't add any originality anymore to the point where some shows can almost be called spin-offs in the level of similarity's they share, all in all can't say I'm of fan of the genre. |
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| I love a bunch of battle shonen series but it's been a long time since I found a new battle shonen series that impressed me. Maybe I don't like the genre as much anymore. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| Some battle shounen are good, some battle shounen are bad, some battle shounen are average, some battle shounen are overrated, some battle shounen are underrated, some battle shounen got the reputation they deserve But Kimetsu no Yaiba killed this ~genre~ Those are my thoughts |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| I love battle shounen,and while i do hold most of the tropes close to my heart,i don´t really find myself wanting to watch any of the new shounen shows.I´m pretty comfortable following the old preestablished ones that are still going. |
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deg said: battle shonen is still the most popular and most profitable anime and manga anyway and more popularity attracts more haters thats about it there is no originality anymore be it battle shonen or not so just better execution is whats important Agree. The problem is, even if the source material has a good execution of cliché, people still will call it cliché, regardless of how it was executed. Sometimes I feel people forget all the context about a scene and only thinks about how it finished |
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| Not for me usually. I struggle with them because, as I spoke about in a recent post, I want to be positive of anime culture, and accepting of different tastes. I think hating on any genre or type of fan has a knock-on effect of reducing the amount of love for all of anime and the community as a whole. However, it bothers me how every season the top anime on MAL is another battle shounen. I get that fans of these shows tend to be young and new to anime, and thus tend to rate highly, get caught up in hype, and always congregate around the big popular hyped up new show. So it's natural that this would happen. But MAL scores matter. Lots of people look to MAL scores as an indicator of quality. But they really aren't. They are indicator of popularity, and not just that, they are biased towards certain types of shows due to the type of anime fan who watches them. I think the problem is with the MAL scoring system. There needs to be some accounting different types of fans, rather than the simple and kind of dumb aggregate score. I've talked with lots of people many times about how to counter this, but it's very difficult to do without introducing new problems. But I think one of the best things would be to account for average scores. Say you have two people. Person A List average: 5.0 Score for anime X: 10 Person B List average: 7.5 Score for anime X: 10 Why should both those 10s count the same towards the aggregate score? A 10 for person A is clearly a higher rating than person B's 10. However, actually accounting this difference is not simple. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| It exist both good once and really horrible once. Sadly this community think Shounen is second to jesus and it's rather boring to see where every you go, you have this tards fighting about what Shounen is best, what ep's is best, if it's well written or not, if the characters is good, if x character from DragonBall can kill z character from Demon Slayers. It's hard to look away from it, as it's every where you go. Shounen is good and enjoyable, just leave it at that. Like come on bud. I just get tired of watching people every where acting like this. It's like they think they have seen it all and know it all. And now they have a reason to shit on something they don't enjoy. Most people in this Community dosen't even know what a Bad Anime looks like. |
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| They're fine. People harp on about them because of their cliches but the point of the genre is that they're extremely easily consumable. You can (and will) always find a better version of the story with way better characters a typical battle shonen has in other anime/manga but the battle shonen will always win out in popularity and legacy just because it is simpler to digest. Easy to watch stuff is great for a lot of people who just want to have some fun. The genre itself is fine and has reason to exist like any other but the reason the debate around it become so infamous is fans and haters which make a small but very vocal minority everywhere you go. |
 Latest reviews: Summer Pockets and Train to the the End of the World |
| I like battle shounen as long as it has good characters. i wish some people realized when it gets really cliche and sort of annoying and predictable at times though, battle shounens are never close to perfect, but most fans mostly new ones don't really notice that. but as long as they enjoy anime idrc. but i think in general I love battle shounen a lot. i wont hate it just because its mainstream. a lot of them have really good plot and manage to bring together and connect different arcs but no one seems to notice that |
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| They are all pretty decent except Hunter x Hunter which is easily one of the worst anime I've ever seen. |
Nillwas said: It exist both good once and really horrible once. Sadly this community think Shounen is second to jesus and it's rather boring to see where every you go, you have this tards fighting about what Shounen is best, what ep's is best, if it's well written or not, if the characters is good, if x character from DragonBall can kill z character from Demon Slayers. Yup, that's one of the reasons that I avoid anime content in social media. I really can't deal with it |
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| Shounen is the easiest genre to get into. You can turn your brain off and enjoy a majority of anime. I don't think a lot of us would be here because it is the starter kit for starting anime. With that being said, with the tremendous amount of shounen out today it will still reign as the supreme genre for anime for the amount of appeal it has for the younger audience. I just don't fw anime that get the power scaling wrong and that's an issue shounen constantly has to deal with. Hrybami said: They are all pretty decent except Hunter x Hunter which is easily one of the worst anime I've ever seen. What makes you hate HxH to give it a 1? |
n6ahNov 15, 2020 10:16 AM
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YossaRedMage said: , I want to be positive of anime culture, and accepting of different tastes. I think hating on any genre or type of fan has a knock-on effect of reducing the amount of love for all of anime and the community as a whole. Totally agree with ypur perpective. I also try to keep myself open to different genres, as to better grasp the powerful essence of anime. However, even if I keep the diversity among the anime I pick to watch, iin the past 19 years I definitely became more interested in the battle shounen genre :D |
| "The me today will not ever make the future me to regret!" (Emily Adachi from Air Gear: Kuro no Hane to Nemuri no Mori - Break on the Sky)  |
| This kind of shounen is what I have always loved best most of my favorites fall into this category. |
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| A lot of the ideas which battle shounen series use are often worn out and unoriginal, however it all pertains to how the series carries it out. There are a few successful ones out of the bunch I would say, just like in every genre. Besides that, I do have several problems with the subgenre like mediocre comedy or uninteresting characters. But if the series can make a buck off of Japanese and global fans with used ideas like that, good on them. Personally I think the reason why I stopped watching action series for a time (and still am quite tired of the action genre as a whole) was probably because of battle shounen anime. I also think the whole idea of friendship and adventure could be easily found in many other animanga series - which are much better executed. |
YossaRedMage said: I think the problem is with the MAL scoring system. There needs to be some accounting different types of fans, rather than the simple and kind of dumb aggregate score. I've talked with lots of people many times about how to counter this, but it's very difficult to do without introducing new problems. But I think one of the best things would be to account for average scores. Say you have two people. Person A List average: 5.0 Score for anime X: 10 Person B List average: 7.5 Score for anime X: 10 Why should both those 10s count the same towards the aggregate score? A 10 for person A is clearly a higher rating than person B's 10. However, actually accounting this difference is not simple. For sure, it would fix some high scores on seasonal animes. But then comes another problem: quantity. Let's say that person A has 10 animes & its list average is 5.0 And then, person B has 20 animes & average list 7.5 It wouldn't be a equal value, since the quantity isn't the same. Although, for sure, it could fix some scores issues, it wouldn't be fair. But I have to say, it is a pretty interesting solution if the system counts by whole numbers. For example: Mean score 5.0 equals to 0.1 when a 10 pops up; then, mean score 7.5 equals to 0,05 when a 10 pops up, and so on. |
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| I mean... they call it shounen for a good reason, and it all depends on targeted audience , so it doesn't really matter.. |
| I started watching anime a long time ago (31 years to be more precise). I definitely haven't started with battle shounen genre. Actually, I have discovered this genre at the end of high school, with Dragon ball. However, I have become more interested in this genre ever since and Naruto became my number one anime 12 years ago :D. I must agree with many of you that say the reason why this genre is so appreciated is that it's easy to consume and to understand. But at the same time it does matter very much how the plot, battles and characters are built. That's why we love some battle shounen anime more than others. Personally, I think that, as Ohmena has so straightforwardly expressed it, battle shounen usually has a "good message for the viewer". As far as I could see, this genre has heroism (which I'm addicted to :))), competition (which is highly engaging for me) and most of all a strong message about being resilient. Even if it may sound hilarious what I am about to say, as an adult, this message about resilience has been tremendously important for me when facing many of my own difficulties in life. It kept me going forward and also not abandoning interests and passions that most adults give up when burdened with daily responsibilities. I think that sometimes, simple old ideas easy to understand are the best solution for many complex situations we're facing. I also think that life it's a battlefield and we are warriors. Deep in our hearts we all know this simple truth. Lack of vigilance or action can cost us opportunities, relationships or the situations we have. Knowing how to make allies is even more important. That's why some of us enjoy battle shounen genre so much! For me at least, they are virtual training fields for my own IRL battles. |
| "The me today will not ever make the future me to regret!" (Emily Adachi from Air Gear: Kuro no Hane to Nemuri no Mori - Break on the Sky) |
n6ah said: Hrybami said: They are all pretty decent except Hunter x Hunter which is easily one of the worst anime I've ever seen. What makes you hate HxH to give it a 1? Awful story Boring characters Take itself too seriously Full of edge Nonlinear narrative Overdone character development Nothing memorable happens aside from the one or two major arcs Hunter exam was okay Arena arc was mediocre York New City showed a bit of potential Greed Island was pointless and stupid Chimera Ant Arc was bullshit and dreadful Election arc was annoying Main characters leave and become supporting characters for no reason Gon childish behavior is unbearable Kirua is so emo it got me sick Phantom troupe lead to nowhere in the show Meruem is the most boring and generic villain I've ever seen Narrator should get the fuck out Grave lack of foreshadowing Fights full of asspulls Most episodes are utterly boring Lots of pacing issue Boring art and animation Not even completed and I hope it never will I would rate it a 0/10 if I could |
Hrybami said: Awful story Boring characters Take itself too seriously Full of edge Nonlinear narrative Overdone character development Nothing memorable happens aside from the one or two major arcs Hunter exam was okay Arena arc was mediocre York New City showed a bit of potential Greed Island was pointless and stupid Chimera Ant Arc was bullshit and dreadful Election arc was annoying Main characters leave and become supporting characters for no reason Gon childish behavior is unbearable Kirua is so emo it got me sick Phantom troupe lead to nowhere in the show Meruem is the most boring and generic villain I've ever seen Narrator should get the fuck out Grave lack of foreshadowing Fights full of asspulls Most episodes are utterly boring Lots of pacing issue Boring art and animation Not even completed and I hope it never will I would rate it a 0/10 if I could dw I gotchu m8 ! TL;DR for lazy ppl : bc I have shit taste XDDDDDD |
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Hrybami said: Awful story Boring characters Take itself too seriously Full of edge Nonlinear narrative Overdone character development Nothing memorable happens aside from the one or two major arcs Hunter exam was okay Arena arc was mediocre York New City showed a bit of potential Greed Island was pointless and stupid Chimera Ant Arc was bullshit and dreadful Election arc was annoying Main characters leave and become supporting characters for no reason Gon childish behavior is unbearable Kirua is so emo it got me sick Phantom troupe lead to nowhere in the show Meruem is the most boring and generic villain I've ever seen Narrator should get the fuck out Grave lack of foreshadowing Fights full of asspulls Most episodes are utterly boring Lots of pacing issue Boring art and animation Not even completed and I hope it never will I would rate it a 0/10 if I could Ah I get you in some aspects, other than Hisoka it felt like the antagonists I’ve seen are just “evil for the sake of being evil” type characters or just some weak ass reasonings. Some of your takes kinda triggered me though. Gon is fucking 12 and plus he’s more mature than most of the young shounen protagonists. Leorio is the weakest MC imo but at least his goal of being a doctor is logical. Hell even he’s better than Kirito lol Also I’m not trying to be toxic I just wanted to see why people hate HxH |
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n6ah said: Hrybami said: Awful story Boring characters Take itself too seriously Full of edge Nonlinear narrative Overdone character development Nothing memorable happens aside from the one or two major arcs Hunter exam was okay Arena arc was mediocre York New City showed a bit of potential Greed Island was pointless and stupid Chimera Ant Arc was bullshit and dreadful Election arc was annoying Main characters leave and become supporting characters for no reason Gon childish behavior is unbearable Kirua is so emo it got me sick Phantom troupe lead to nowhere in the show Meruem is the most boring and generic villain I've ever seen Narrator should get the fuck out Grave lack of foreshadowing Fights full of asspulls Most episodes are utterly boring Lots of pacing issue Boring art and animation Not even completed and I hope it never will I would rate it a 0/10 if I could Ah I get you in some aspects, other than Hisoka it felt like the antagonists I’ve seen are just “evil for the sake of being evil” type characters or just some weak ass reasonings. Some of your takes kinda triggered me though. Gon is fucking 12 and plus he’s more mature than most of the young shounen protagonists. Leorio is the weakest MC imo but at least his goal of being a doctor is logical. Hell even he’s better than Kirito lol Also I’m not trying to be toxic I just wanted to see why people hate HxH Yeah no worry. I don't mind child like characters. My issue with Gon is that he's just a kid with innate stronger ability which I don't think he deserves. He has barely trained and is already one of the strongest character in the show. So we're just here witnessing a little kid breaking down for dealing with mature stuff and the power is already given to him so he just uses it to do whatever he feels like. It gets unbearable really fast. I wanted to punch him so hard sometimes. I liked Leorio, but the show doesn't seem to like him since his screen times is extremely reduced to a mere supporting character. |
| Battle Shounen, Romance Shoujo, they all have tropes that some follow, some subvert, but I think it all depends on the execution of those tropes, how the author uses them to advance their plot/characters, etc. I think some frequent messages in battle shounen can be positive for the intended demographic, things like "don't lose hope", "work hard", "treasure your friends", are all good lessons. For battle shounen to have persisted till today means it does hit the target for many people. It can also get repetitive if you just focus on the tropes the anime use, but if the execution is good, I've seen many say "oh this is good despite using generic tropes". I think battle shounen anime can be criticized in their execution of the tropes, the characters, etc., but not necessarily because "they are battle shounen so they must be bad". I'm not a fan of when people hate on shounen just to feel "mature", "intellectual", "elite", or something like that. Liking a genre or hating a genre doesn't make you superior in any way lol. |
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| Yeah, them´re essentially all the same on the core, especially the ones from Shounen Jump. I guess many of them want to be like Dragon Ball or One Piece in some aspects, since the authors grew reading those. Obviously, that´s not the rule. Few are truly remarkable nowadays. I don´t hate them, even being filled with friendship and protagonism stuff almost all the time. I do like Hunter x Hunter, despite being enormous and really slow. I loved One Piece back in my teens, but I grew out of it after it started to get too long (dropped in middle of W7) The Haki stuff was extremely unappealing to me. It´s like "whoa, they can do anything!" and this is boring. Not to mention how ugly it became. I liked Naruto and Bleach, but had similar issues with them. As I got older, I´ve started to enjoy the slightly different Shounen, with fewer, but way more interesting battles and with a good story told in few volumes. Stuff like FMA, AssClass and Promised Wonderland. |
| "Could you not talk with me? I'm busy breathing." |
| I've just started Dragon Quest: Adventure of Dai, which is a pretty pure battle shounen, a young lad versus a monster army and demon lord/king. I'm looking forward to seeing how such a show progresses over time. The last battle shounen i saw on some sort of regular basis was DBZ over 20 years ago. I used to enjoy the OTT action and camaraderie of the MC's during their adventures together . The wild variety of places they visit and the range of battle format used to be something that intrigued me as a younger watcher. So far Dragon Quest has begun strongly with an interesting, but cliche, premise and some noteworthy characters. |
23feanorNov 15, 2020 11:20 AM
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| That my favorite genre and I love it. I don't care if others thing it's stupid or silly. Its the type of thing which excites me and that all matters to me |
  Click for a anime mashup! Still not gone bandwagon u, keep crying. Here u are welcome to CRINGE at my EXISTENCE |
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| I haven't been searching that genre in a while, but I like it. It's fun, and exhilarating if done right. |
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Corrupted_Sorrow said: I loved One Piece back in my teens, but I grew out of it after it started to get too long (dropped in middle of W7) The Haki stuff was extremely unappealing to me. It´s like "whoa, they can do anything!" and this is boring. Not to mention how ugly it became. I liked Naruto and Bleach, but had similar issues with them. Yup, One Piece is really a hit-or-miss anime. The biggest problem is its pacing (Episode 949 = Chapter 949). Feels like a hell watching this after the timeskip. But wow, from W7 to Marineford is a worth watching experience in my opinion. The new art style of Wano is great, but adapt 13 pages in 20 minutes is really painful. I would say the manga is way better, in any aspects. Maybe you should give a try some day xd I don't have any issue with the haki stuff, it's pretty solid. But if we talk about Akuma no Mi, well...I guess every shounen has at least one problem with its own abilities |
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| I absolutely love battle shounens, but like all anime there is good, average and bad battle shounens. However battle shounen are deffo my faves |
| battle doesn't make it any good unless the shounen in the shounen anime is not a fucking CUNT |
 OBAMOS |
SkyFullOfStars said: I think battle shounen anime can be criticized in their execution of the tropes, the characters, etc., but not necessarily because "they are battle shounen so they must be bad". I'm not a fan of when people hate on shounen just to feel "mature", "intellectual", "elite", or something like that. Liking a genre or hating a genre doesn't make you superior in any way lol. That's right. What I look forward in a battle shounen isn't the fights itself, but how good the characters are, in my point of view. If there's a good reason for the battles in it, the same way that the cast is pleasant, then I am in. I love to see how the main cast interacts with each other and how a simple conversation can change a whole person's world/ point of view. Definitely, hating a "X" genre doesn't make you superior to anyone. |
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| The plots can be a little samey but I usually watch battle shounen for the ensemble cast more then the plot. |
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UberBat said: The plots can be a little samey but I usually watch battle shounen for the ensemble cast more then the plot. Sure thing. And even being something you probably watched before, it's pretty fun to see how the "new cast" will solve the same problems others used to have |
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Shiroyaki said: YossaRedMage said: Not for me usually. I struggle with them because, as I spoke about in a recent post, I want to be positive of anime culture, and accepting of different tastes. I think hating on any genre or type of fan has a knock-on effect of reducing the amount of love for all of anime and the community as a whole. However, it bothers me how every season the top anime on MAL is another battle shounen. I get that fans of these shows tend to be young and new to anime, and thus tend to rate highly, get caught up in hype, and always congregate around the big popular hyped up new show. So it's natural that this would happen. But MAL scores matter. Lots of people look to MAL scores as an indicator of quality. But they really aren't. They are indicator of popularity, and not just that, they are biased towards certain types of shows due to the type of anime fan who watches them. I think the problem is with the MAL scoring system. There needs to be some accounting different types of fans, rather than the simple and kind of dumb aggregate score. I've talked with lots of people many times about how to counter this, but it's very difficult to do without introducing new problems. But I think one of the best things would be to account for average scores. Say you have two people. Person A List average: 5.0 Score for anime X: 10 Person B List average: 7.5 Score for anime X: 10 Why should both those 10s count the same towards the aggregate score? A 10 for person A is clearly a higher rating than person B's 10. However, actually accounting this difference is not simple. I don't think this is actually true. I, for example, have more than 7 as average score not because I like at this level every anime I watch, but because I score only anime that I really like or dislike. Considering that I usually avoid watch anime that I know I will dislike and that I don't score average anime, make sense that my score is hight, but that doesn't mean I would not give a 2 or a 3 if the anime deserve a bad score. Long run shonen have hight score because a lot of people watch them. I agree that people watching only super famous anime whitch already have a good score could make some exageration, but they also enjoy them, because nobody finish a 100+ episodes anime if he hates it and he isn't stupid or masochist. I think you'd be surprised at how many people there are who are quite dedicated to hate-watching stuff lol But yeh you're right, that's one of many problems that come up. There's ideas involving comparing a users list average to the aggregate average of all the anime on their list, but that introduces a ton of problems too. It gets really complicated and there doesn't seem to be a clear solution. But I'd like to think the ideal system just hasn't been invented yet. It would be sad if there were no better alternative to raw aggregates. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| I am happy that shounen series still interest me. I thought I might outgrow them. However the most recent "pure" shounen I watched, managed to actually interest me. That would be "Fire Force". A generic shounen, one might say. But to me it was an ordinary shounen, that entertained me to my very core. Not to informative like "Dr. Stone", not as over hyped as "Kimetsu no Yaiba". It was in the middle and just right. |
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4Dss said: Shounen Battle are pretty common in Anime. I'm a big fan of it, It entertains me a lot. . More of less the same here as long they're done properly |
zieek said: I am happy that shounen series still interest me. I thought I might outgrow them. However the most recent "pure" shounen I watched, managed to actually interest me. That would be "Fire Force". A generic shounen, one might say. But to me it was an ordinary shounen, that entertained me to my very core. Not to informative like "Dr. Stone", not as over hyped as "Kimetsu no Yaiba". It was in the middle and just right. It took me too long to get into Fire Force. My problem was the Shaft animators in David Productions, it was like the anime was trying to be what definitely isn't. Despite that, the typical battle shounen stuff entertained a lot and had a great ending for season 1. That said, I am really enjoying Fire Force season 2 with the new style. I feel it is more "unique" and fits well, but still is perceptible some "shaft style" Whgedia said: YossaRedMage said: However, it bothers me how every season the top anime on MAL is another battle shounen. Didn´t know that "Tian Guan Ci Fu" was a Shounen... Well, if you withdraw Tian Guan Ci Fu, there still will have Jujutsu Kaisen, Haikyuu! and One Piece (on going) |
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deg said: Which is no shame at all. Battle shounen picks up a new generation each year for which everything is brand new and great. The "Hero's Journey" pattern, which in some variation every battle shounen follows, is the oldest literary form we know. The Gilgamesh epic is about 5000 years old.there is no originality anymore be it battle shonen or not so just better execution is whats important A good analogy is music. The number of good cadences and chord progressions is very limited. But each new generation experiences the power of I–V–vi–IV for the first time, and it's fresh from them. Yet arrangement, musical style, instruments, and rhythm is different each time so older fans can still enjoy songs using well known patterns. |
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| I think a genre that has good and bad things (I am not a hater, I even like a lot of works from this "genre", but I am not a fanboy and I know there is a lot of crap in the "genre" tmb) Note: My "" is because shounen itself is not a genre, but with the confusion that the community itself created in labeling demography as a genre, then the "battle shounen" was created to refer to those works that follow the narrative structure of Hokuto no Ken / Dragon Ball created and helped to popularize .. |
| the quality might not be high but it's my comfort genre, I didn't like bleach and I don't like mha but still reading it for some reason |
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Whgedia said: YossaRedMage said: However, it bothers me how every season the top anime on MAL is another battle shounen. Didn´t know that "Tian Guan Ci Fu" was a Shounen... Sorry, clearly you misread my post. I'm talking about anime. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| It's standard because how uncreative they can be. Personally even kimetsu no yaiba is pretty mediocore for me too. I've seen too many shows that follow the same formula. It's kinda up there because the animation and soundtrack is good It's not just shonen, other genre could also hit by the same problem, love, mecha, etc. Regarding MAL score, Most shonen here actually has higher rating than what I'd give them tbh, while seinen mostly has lower score because many people just can't understand the art. |
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