When did the Anime community become so entitled?

Me having to get a job at 15 means that I didn't have the privilege of just sitting on my ass and have my parents pay for all the shit I wanted to have. Paying for Anime is not a privilege, having a job as a teenager is not a privilege.

Nillwas said:
@Zeroflamez I'm in the same boat about the people you're right now shiting on ?

You're living in Canda, so it's rahter understanable that you would never understand the amount of cancer it is for us in the EU and rest of Asian the access legit anime.

YeeYeeAss said:
I do pay for crunchy and netflix and used to own amazon prime. I buy dvds and manga. I only pirate shows that I can't watch from the platforms I own. And without piracy some shows would not have an official translation. I think Hajime no Ippo second season was never licensed overseas. And for Manga: Kengan Ashura. It was never that popular but it got a full translation by fans. I would buy the manga of it but there is no official translation for it. Only way for a westener to enjoy the manga is either learn japanese and buy the manga or read it from pirate websites or just download it from Hokuto no Gun (the guys who fan translate it)

allBrawNnoBrains said:
This is the way I see it; piracy is wrong, but one shouldn't get worked up over it. Now hear me out. You can't really label someone a "bad person" just because they pirate. When it comes down to fundamentals, piracy is stealing. But just because one steals doesn't mean one is a shitty human. I ultimately don't believe in this animosity.

Bashing people for piracy is like bashing people for eating meat. Sure, going vegan is cleaner, arguably healthier, more humane, and generally more ethical, but that doesn't mean people will be willing to make the switch. Eating meat is a flawed thing to do, and to buy meat is to support a morally corrupt industry. Does this mean anyone who eats meat is a generally shitty person with no morals? No, of course it doesn't. Similarly, does everybody who pirate anime fall under the category of "terrible person"? Again, the answer is no. In both cases convenience and basic human indecency overpower morality. If anything, it puts people in a moral grey area rather than the objective "bad." Pirating anime (or eating meat for that matter) shouldn't have any bearing on who you are, what your convictions are, and your general grasp on ethics.

And hey, it's not like anime studios are struggling because of piracy. There are tons of people (myself included) who are willing to drop cash onto subscriptions, and box sets, and merch, and toys, and so on so forth. Now, if anime studios begin going through rough times because of an overwhelming piracy problem, then sure, piracy should be scrutinized. Otherwise, what's the big deal? So what if a large number of people fall into a moral grey area? This shit will happen regardless of the status quo. Better just live with it.
I'd have to disagree with you there, dude. Having a job as a teenager is absolutely a privilege. I live in Canada too. In highschool, I knew a handful of people who were part-timers. And you know what? Only 2 out of that handful were able to find their jobs without any connections. 3 of my closest friends got their jobs because they had friends and relatives to bring them in. Keep in mind, it has been a long time since you were 15, and the economic landscape has more or less shifted. But then again, my experiences may not be a good indicator because the scope of my experiences have been...less than profound. In my mind (and @AnimeDownUnder 's mind), having a job at 15 is a privilege. And that's not me trying to criticize you or anything, I think it's great and I'm happy for anyone who gets a job in highschool. I just view it as a privilege given my (albeit relatively limited) worldview and upbringing.

-Ryu said:
"Noooooo you cant watch anime for free you need to pay for it in legal platforms your stealing its morally wrong nooooo"
"Haha piracy go pshhh"

AmityBlight said:


I agree with 60s and 70s, a good amount of 90s and some 80s actually do have re-releases you can buy. You need search more markets online.

Zeroflamez said:

Well wouldn't you wanna get paid for your work?

DarkInsomnia57 said:
If KissAnime had gone legit I would've easily payed 2-3 bucks into that every month. What a shame it's gone now. Oh well. Too late to make up for it.

I don't have room for dolls and towels. I want the best access and best picture quality possible, that's what I will pay for.

Instead people are spending their time tearing out the lifeblood of anime. Cool story, bro.

Honestly the community was shredded a bit by that move. I feel less inclined to recommend the medium anymore. Paying for several different streaming services just to get to a few shows...

I get Netflix, they produce really good dubs so it's worth it. I'll always wait for a dub. But locking subtitles behind paywalls?

Crunchyroll always sucked because of the bad picture quality, Funi is so expensive, Hulu is a joke. What a shame. Japan has all the time in the world to put together a pay-to-watch product and they never do it. It's so disappointing that the bureaucratic swamp can't ever figure it out and get off its ass.

If Sony at least bought Crunchyroll that would be something, I can trust Sony. Instead you're suing KA. I get it, profits and stuff, but the people who ran that site are goddamn heroes and I won't hear anything to the contrary. They deserve the medal of freedom. Otherwise how can you watch classic shows? Not everybody whores themselves out for seasonals, that gets old. And the quality of content in new seasons is always bad. For every Dorohedoro there's a billion ecchi isekai trash shows.

Trying to get rid of something like KA and good piracy sites was/is a mistake. KA also had branding value. You could've bought it...in an imaginary world where the swamp of copyrights don't exist. KA was what was keeping anime accessible.

So we lose KA so now we'll get more access elsewhere? Don't make me fucking laugh.

How about dubbing old anime shows like Legends of the Galactic Heroes in full? Or old Lupin?

Nah. Too expensive. Everything is too inconvenient and expensive. Just suffer, anime fans, suffer and die and never enjoy anime again. Typical Japan, they think their culture is just for them and no one else can enjoy it or they get embarrassed.

Sad shame, these days. During Covid, too. May the piracy burn strong and long since there'll never be adequate replacements you can pay for.

Iridium410 said:
Our options for streaming websites are terrible, my personal method goes as follows:
1. watch anime in potato quality (illegally)
2. If i don't drop it or find the ending boring it will be added to the wish list
3. I find the licensor/distributor wait for their sale and buy a lot of shows that they may have
4. Use makemkv to rip and then i put it on my plex server for willy-nilly access

some shows are never sold and or were sold but are only sold by scalpers/collectors now due to being out of print (the slayers movies and kobato are a good example). There are also companies like aniplex that sell series for outrageous prices that I can not bring myself to swallow.

As anime becomes more socially acceptable the average watcher will shift from the avid fan who puts effort into their entertainment making it their hobby to a person who wishes to just fill the time by any means necessary. To me it is these half assed fans who do not care about the ethics or care to support the industry.
Where the loss of sites like KissAnime is felt the hardest is in older works like sukeban deka or other obscure series that will never see the likes of a new release anytime soon. Anime distribution in the west is lacking and licensing definitely needs some work so as to make is so that even the laziest of fans can watch in a means that supports the industry, but for now illegal means combined with merch buying remain the most moral path in my mind.

TsukuyomiREKT said:


Whether CR has a million subscribers or a hundred million, the people who actually slave away to make the shows still aren't gonna be paid.

TsukuyomiREKT said:


Whether CR has a million subscribers or a hundred million, the people who actually slave away to make the shows still aren't gonna be paid.

_FRB_ said:


This is essentially my point. Money better spent elsewhere if you are interested in supporting the industry.

Zeroflamez said:

No one is denying that, but many people here already don't want to purchase blu rays's or DVD's in their region cause they are too expensive or cause they dislike their regions distributors. If they aren't even willing to bite the bullet and do that what makes you think they'll go out of their way to import a $300-$500 Blu-Ray box of an Anime directly from Japan? Or even buy a moderately expensive Anime figure or something? Like I mean the alternatives to supporting the industry if you aren't wanting to pay for streaming services is like 2-3 times more expensive. Why the hell would they go the more expensive route if they won't even go the affordable and cheaper route?

_FRB_ said:


In my personal opinion, someone buying expensive DVDs and Blu-rays isn't concerned with spending money anyways.

I would imagine someone would buy figures or other merch over a subscription service because I believe a physical object is objectively more valuable than a subscription service. Add on the fact paying for the subscription service basically results in nothing but the subscription service pocketing that cash, and it's a no-brainer to me.

Either way, the difference in "supporting the industry" accomplished by someone paying for a subscription and someone who doesn't is zero at worst, and negligible at best.

existentialist said:
Until my money can go directly into the hands of the creators and animators who are overworked and underpaid, it'll stay nice and safe in my pocket. I've said it before, but crowd sourcing should be the future for everything, including anime and manga production. If I can pay studious to produce the content I want, and pay the creators for the works they've made that have satisfied me, I'm all in for bombarding them with the compensation they deserve. But until someone makes that a reality I'm not going to launch my money into the abyss and hope someone who deserved it really gets it.

Zeroflamez said:

Well I mean in terms of the subscription service "pocketing the cash". The company has to pay for their expenses somehow. So to expect them to give the entirety of their earnings to the industry is kind of not realistic. Besides these streaming services are paying into the Japanese industry by purchasing licenses and all of the money from that goes into the Japanese industry. So to say that paying for a streaming service is pointless is pretty far from the truth. The same also works for the merch industry. Companies approach the rights holders and offer them money to make merch using their licensed properties. The company making the stuff and designing it gets a cut while the rights holders also get a cut. But the rights holders are getting paid up front a large sum of money for even giving out the rights.

Zeroflamez said:

It doesn't make sense financially for them to dub 100's of episodes of Lupin the 3rd or Legend of Galactic heroes. The fact that they just did a NA release of Legend of Galactic Heroes and had to do a collectors edition of the entire series that's only limited to like 800 proves that there is not enough of a demand to do a retail release. So dubbing it makes zero sense. Going back and dubbing old Lupin episodes won't do much either cause it's not a big title. So financially it just isn't worth it. No KissAnime aren't heroes. They're pirates that force people not to use ad-block so they can make money off an illegal site. You're exactly what I'm talking about when I say entitled leeches. "I'd be willing to be $2-$3 if Kiss Anime became legal. LOL access to all that Anime and still aren't even willing to pay $5. You really can't make this shit up. We have more Access now to Anime than any other point in time. If it wasn't for the Japanese companies letting license holders do Simulcasts there would be no Anime for Kiss Anime to rip off these stream services a put on their website. Cause fan-subbers would NOT be able to sub every seasonal show. They've done plenty and you still want more. Anime is STILL accessible to pirates. It's not anyone's fault but your own that you don't know how to use a torrent client.


I dunno man. Damn near everything is licensed now days. Even older titles are getting licensed. We have access to more Anime legally than any other point in history in the West. Is everything gonna get licensed? no cause it's not realistic, so that's when pirating comes in. It's not the companies fault that the lazy fans do what they do. You can't really control that. Even if nearly every obscure title was available legally people would still not be happy. Current consumer culture seriously frightens me. We have access to 1000's of Anime across a handful of platforms and people still want more titles. Like you can only watch so much of it, you'll die before getting around to all of it. I just don't get why people can't just accept somethings they'll just never see and move on..


Yeah and the people slaving away at these jobs won't get paid and will end up getting laid off. How considerate of you dude. "Yeah fuck CR, they abuse these animators and don't pay them enough. Let's not pay for Anime at all so they can be homeless next!"

Nillwas said:
@Zeroflamez I'm in the same boat about the people you're right now shiting on ?

You're living in Canda, so it's rahter understanable that you would never understand the amount of cancer it is for us in the EU and rest of Asian the access legit anime.

Afloo said:
Even us here in LatAm are in that same boat. Only the US and Canada get mostly everything legally.

existentialist said:



That's not a problem at all from the consumers perspective: if they don't make good works, then they go bankrupt. And it wouldn't be their soul means of income, they would obviously still have TV deals. No, crowdsourcing is a multi-faceted business practice. You're right one of the best ways it could emerge is through supporting the creation of new works, but also through things like monthly subscriptions to the studio or creators works, or even one time donations. If I could drop 100$ into a author I likes paypal, I would be doing that all the time. What is stopping creators from opening their own patreon or equivalent to get extra money for themselves and allow us to have a say in what they create -- other than the preexisting business structure which detests maverick behaviour.

If I had the time, energy, and know-how to do so, I would. But I don't and can't afford do that. This is something the studios -- and creators -- should be realizing on their own. I'm still getting the content I want illegally, if they make it so I can support them and not have to also support a bunch of avaricious rent-seeking fucks with them, I would happily support them.

Afloo said:
Even us here in LatAm are in that same boat. Only the US and Canada get mostly everything legally.

_FRB_ said:


I am not expecting all of the money a subscription service makes to go to the industry in Japan. I am just saying its not enough. Because it's naive of you to think they pay their bills and give away everything left.

Their pocketed money > Money to studios

If the case was anything but, English markets would be an absolute necessity to keep the anime industry in Japan afloat, but obviously it isn't. Quite literally, none of us paying for a subscription service are paying the salaries of anyone actually creating the anime, or even close.

Which leads into the other part that I will reiterate again. The difference in "supporting the industry" accomplished by someone paying for a subscription vs someone who doesn't is zero at worst, and negligible at best.

TsukuyomiREKT said:


You're not getting the point. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at CR or any other legal site, the only people who are ever going to get paid are the bigwigs. Animators are going to continue to be paid shit wages until the industry ITSELF changes.

Zeroflamez said:


Because having the consumers have control of everything that gets made is a terrible idea. What you're suggesting is essentially the same exact thing except that the studios and the authors are slaves to the consumers. If they don't create stories they want to see, the consumers will simply not put money behind it and then nothing gets made and no one gets paid. The only thing I could ever get behind in terms of what you're saying is if creators and studios had something like a tip jar on their social media pages or website where you could donate if you wanted to.

Zeroflamez said:

I never said that they give the rest of their money to Japan after they pay their expenses, and why should they? what would you consider enough? At the end of the day Funimation is a business dude. They need to make money too. They can't just pay their expenses and throw the rest at the Japanese industry. They have to make profits for themselves and their parent company Sony. This also applies to Crunchy Roll as well. The middle man needs to make money as well. I seriously question whether anyone one that has the same complaints as you is even thinking about what you're saying logically. These middlemen companies exist to MAKE PROFIT. You expecting them to just pocket enough money to keep the business running and give the rest away is absolutely ridiculous.

Zeroflamez said:

I never said that they give the rest of their money to Japan after they pay their expenses, and why should they? what would you consider enough? At the end of the day Funimation is a business dude. They need to make money too. They can't just pay their expenses and throw the rest at the Japanese industry. They have to make profits for themselves and their parent company Sony. This also applies to Crunchy Roll as well. The middle man needs to make money as well. I seriously question whether anyone one that has the same complaints as you is even thinking about what you're saying logically. These middlemen companies exist to MAKE PROFIT. You expecting them to just pocket enough money to keep the business running and give the rest away is absolutely ridiculous.

Zeroflamez said:
Yeah and the people slaving away at these jobs won't get paid and will end up getting laid off. How considerate of you dude. "Yeah fuck CR, they abuse these animators and don't pay them enough. Let's not pay for Anime at all so they can be homeless next!"

existentialist said:


Not at all, we consume what they produce because there is a huge demand. Anime will never die, just like people watch what they can get today, and if one company isn't satisfying the consumers another will step in and do its job better. The authors still create what they want to create, we just support what we like and don't like. And because there is far from some homogeneous opinion on anime quality, there will always been a market for every kind of anime out there -- just look at how many low quality ecchi harems there are. It would be even better because the authors and studios would be getting the lionshare of the money, so even if you only have 10,000 supporters giving you 10 dollars, and you make 9$ of that, we just gave the creator 90,000$ directly. There doesn't need to be some kind of huge conglomerate shuffling around millions and billions of dollars to a bunch of people who are effectively useless. Tons of niche creators would have strong fan-bases making what they love and what their audience loves and supports them for.

But I 100% agree with you, why not allow that? There are thousands of people on twitch, youtube, and patreon that are doing that right now. Every way the studios and creators can get money from their fan-base to their hands should be explored. It really is crony capitalism and corporatism which is holding anime back from becoming so incredible, because at the base of it is artists making art for appreciators of art. The internet has made it possible for this to happen, but there are too many business people who know they won't get a slice of the pie to let it become the norm.

Hughsie said:


Dude I wouldn't expect much in the way of logic from people who straight up state "I don't think CR/Funi pay enough for the licensing rights to anime (even though the studios themselves agree to these deals), therefore I'm going to refuse to use them and instead use a piracy website that sends literally no money whatsoever the way of the creators".

I've already made my point on all this but I'll say it again. I pirate sometimes, I do so despite knowing it to be wrong because I'm a flawed human who sometimes does slightly immoral things when it's to my benefit and there are no consequences, I'm not perfect. At least I have the balls to be honest with myself about it though rather than hiding behind mental justifications that defy all logic. Like I said before, some of the justifications offered up here are straight up precious.

Zeroflamez said:

Yeah I'd have to agree with you. It's getting exhausting trying to make sense of what a lot of people are saying on here. Going to such lengths to justify their pirating. I'm not perfect either I pirate myself at times, but I don't try to justify it. Their logic is that the money doesn't go to the creators so why should they pay? Even though I highly doubt they care whether the people in China assembling their Iphones, computer parts or whatever else actually gets the entire share of the profits. So the fact that they are boycotting these companies because the big wigs are getting most of the money, I can't believe for a second.

_FRB_ said:


Good, we're on the same page on something. Streaming services don't support the industry, obviously. That's all I needed to hear. Let me make it clear: They don't support the industry a little, they support it next to none.

Not paying for a subscription is not going to put the jobs of actual people producing anime at risk (which by the way is all I care about, CR and Funi could go out of business tomorrow and I would not care), which is what you seem to believe by your own words.



So with all that in mind, why exactly should you give your money to them? You have no moral high ground for paying for streaming services, and I'm saying that as someone who pays for them. But for me it's a convenience charge. I'm not going to say I'm supporting the industry by paying for a subscription service because I know I'm not. And I'm not claim the moral high ground over someone who doesn't, because they get to claim the intellectual high ground over me for not wasting their money.

You can't try and give a good reason to give these companies your money, because the only good reason to would be that my money going to them supports the industry, which you seem to be beginning to realize: it doesn't. Because these services are businesses that of course have to make money.

Again, the person paying for the subscription service is not supporting the industry more than the person that doesn't, because the subscription service pockets their money to make a profit that they need to make as a business. Which is all I really care about.

Zeroflamez said:

I'm pretty sure you would care if Funi and CR went out of business because pirate sites wouldn't have any content to rip off these sites to put on their own. This would also mean that we would no longer have seasonal Anime watching or simulcasts. Again, you don't even know how basic business works it's getting annoying trying to explain this to you. The Western distributors are PAYING MONEY to the Japanese license holders in order to distribute their shit. These Japanese companies ALSO get a cut on top of the large sum of money they get for releasing the distribution rights to them. They then put that money back into the industry by using it to fund other projects which give Animators more work. The money the middlemen like Funi and CR make are going to themselves which help the company grow, pay business expenses, and to pay for more licenses (which helps the Japanese industry). You and others keep bringing up this thing about "Unless the money goes right to the creators I'm not paying". When it comes to buying other products like your Iphones, tablets, T.V's or whatever else, I highly doubt you're worried about whether or not your money is going directly into the people's pockets in these factories assembling this shit for you for next to nothing. Yet you're trying to act like you're righteous. You're not righteous. You and many others here are nothing but hypocrites that are using bullshit to justify not paying for shit. I seriously suggest you look into basic economics and business and learn how the fuck a business operates. Cause you and others here clearly are fucking clueless.

Zeroflamez said:

As I've already said dude. Businesses running off of crowd starters aren't sustainable. The moment a studio makes a bad project no one will fund them anymore and the studio will go out of business. There's no safety net with a crowd funded business. They can easily collapse for a number of reasons and you expecting an ENTIRE industry to run off of crowd funding is really just unrealistic.

_FRB_ said:


It's actually laughable that you and others will try and make fun of someone like me as righteous when your original post was "why is everyone so entitled and why can't they be a morally guided person like me and pay for anime". Look in the fucking mirror. Better yet, look at your own post even. If I can help it, I just don't want to give my money to a company that I don't like, because the money is going to the company, and I'm not made of money. Are you not the same way?

Again, I do pay a subscription. For convenience. But if that convenience was gone, so would be my subscription.

As for all the other product examples you gave, pretty irrelevant since the 1.) only way to obtain them is by purchasing through said company, 2.) you couldn't reliably or easily get money to the people actually making them, and 3.) the fact that there isn't a middleman in the same way there is for anime. I don't get why would use that argument when you're all hot on how the middleman needs to make money too.

I hate repeating myself, but nothing will change the fact that the person paying for the subscription service is not supporting the industry more than the person that doesn't.

I'll pay for the service, but I'm not delusional like you as to where the money goes, or going to stand on a pedestal to call everyone who doesn't pay a subscription "entitled". Your own thread title btw.

Oh yeah and as a side note, your only "you're just a filthy pirate" argument doesn't work very well against someone who pays for anime.

Zeroflamez said:

Yes there is a middleman in the EXACT same way as those products I've listed in my example. It's called the distributors. And the distributors are the retail stores. The companies sell their products through the distributors. It's the same thing for Anime. Funimation and crunchy roll are the distributors and companies sell their Anime through them. Yes and the only way to get these Anime products is going through these big wig companies. So it's the same exact fucking thing. You seem to believe getting money to the Studios in Japan reliably and easy is not an issue so why would getting money to factories in China be an issue?

I hate repeating myself, but nothing will change the fact that the person paying for the subscription service is not supporting the industry more than the person that doesn't.

I've already told you 3 times HOW you're wrong and you thinking that someone that pays isn't supporting just as much as someone that doesn't is absolutely fucking stupid. THE JAPANESE INDUSTRY GETS MONEY FOR LICENSE AND DISTRIBUTION DEALS, THESE MIDDLEMEN COMPANIES GET THE MONEY IN ORDER TO PAY FOR NEW SHIT FROM STREAMING AND Physical medial sales. Which puts money BACK INTO the JAPANESE DOMESTIC INDUSTRY. You actually thinking that the Japanese industry isn't making anything off of these Western localization companies is probably the stupidest fucking thing I've heard. If they weren't making money here why the fuck would they be giving streaming rights to all these western Anime companies? God damn kid, pick up a fucking book and educate yourself on this topic cause you don't have a fucking clue. And you telling me I'm naive because I don't believe your fairy tale that Funimation pockets 95% of the money they make for themselves because it makes ZERO logic for it to be even plausible from a business perspective , just shows how uneducated you are on this entire subject.

existentialist said:


I've already told you they are sustainable, and why they are. To reiterate, TV deals will still exist, so this is another stable stream of funding, let alone the demand for anime is overwhelming. You have a parochial understanding of behavioural economics, and as I've already said, the variance in taste among anime fans is astronomical. Anime fans argue vehemently about what they like, so just because you and someone you know hates a particular anime, doesn't mean others won't like it and support it regardless of popular opinion. Think of all the anime you hate, and look at the scores and comments. You will find some that are way above yours, that's just how taste works. Because there is more direct payment to the creators, they don't need as many supporters to continue creating (again referencing my previous comment, which I'm not sure you read close enough). You are also assuming that for some reason if there isn't a safety net in a business, it will just not exist? Almost all businesses were in this state at one point in time, and as they grow and gain capital. For creators, I would bet my life that they would be making more than double what they are now, and that would allow them to save for time when demand isn't as high. Again you are ignoring the many ten's of thousands of people who create content online for free and are supported completely by voluntary payment from their fans.

I'm not under the impression this would ever happen because of business interests and the way most socially democratic economies work, just that it would work much better, and the consumers as well as creators would be better off for it.

_FRB_ said:


Factory in whatever country makes Apple phone for Apple. It's Apple's product they developed, and told and paid some factory to make, even if they get paid dirt. Apple receiving an Apple product to sell. CR and Funi didn't develop anything. Apple is not a middleman in the way CR and Funi are.

Anime makes money from the west, and I never claimed otherwise.

What I DID claim otherwise was that your 7 dollars a month does not support the industry. What I DID claim otherwise was your assertion that not paying the subscription would put people making anime out of a job. What I DID claim otherwise is that any significant portion of your money benefits the people who made what you're paying for. What I DID claim otherwise are that CR and Funi are not companies whose business I would want to support.

If CR and Funi's streaming revenue was that impactful to the anime industry, you most likely would not see anime studios wanting to put out anime on their own accord FOR FREE (presumably with ad rev, a la AnimeLog, which we don't yet know much about).

But if it helps you sleep at night, you can believe the "fairy tale" that CR and Funi are good for the anime industry. Trying to convince someone doesn't work against shilling/stupidity/ignorance, whatever word you prefer to use. Un entitlement?

Zeroflamez said:

Yes there are people that are being supported by fans that are getting crowd funded but these projects aren't costing more than a Million dollars to create like it does for Anime. I don't even think you understand the entire point of Crowd Funding. I don't think you really understand business too well yourself and I don't think you get exactly how much money is required to start up, produce, distribute and market an Anime. There's no fucking way that people crowdfunding can fund all of these studios to produce this stuff as well as providing money to market, advertise and distribute it reliably. You literally said yourself that if a Studio makes a bad product that they'll go bankrupt and another studio will pick it up so studio's not making what we want or what we don't consider good isn't a problem but now you're saying that if a studio flops that they won't cease to exist.. and that they don't need a safety net.. what? If they make a product people don't like and people refuse to fund anymore of their stuff they WILL go out of business. T.V Deals do exist but that money isn't enough to fully fund an entire Anime project. Even now, Anime crowd funding projects like Little Witch Academia 2. The money raised was ONLY to get the project off the ground and be able to get investors to want to back it by saying "hey we raised X amount of dollars, people really want us to make this show, there's profit to be made. Will you be interested in footing us the rest of the funding for this project?". The money raised wasn't to fund the ENTIRE production and it requires much much more than what they raised to make it. What you're expecting is for studios to be independently owned and that is not a safe move nor does it make sense for them to. Cause they have no one to save them if shit goes south. If Madhouse was independent after Red Line flopped they wouldn't even exist today. Cause they put so much time and money into that project

existentialist said:


Holy shit you couldn't be more clueless about economics if you tried. Do you even know the anime market size? As a rough estimate, I've seen 100+ million people watch anime in any given period. Do you know how big of a number that is? Wow, projects need MILLIONS of dollars. Holy, how will they even get millions of dollars, its not like if 1% of the market donates 10 dollars, they would have 10,000,000 or anything. You are either sorely underestimating how many people watch anime, or really don't understand how easy is it to accumulate wealth when your product is high in demand. And I know for a fact, people would be way more liberal in spending on studios and creators once we knew they were directly getting the money. Look at this comment section, its littered with people who hate the corporate anime world just like me but wish they had better ways to support. But please enlighten me on how crowdfunding works and why its super dumbdumb in this situation, you seem to be a beacon of knowledge.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I'm going to try once more and then after that I'm just going to tell you to re-read my previous comment. People. Have. Different... (and I can't stress this enough).. tastes. So when I said, about 3 times so far, that a 'bad product" to you, is not the same to just maybe one of the other hundred million anime watchers, I meant that a studio or company won't go out of business just because you don't like what they are selling. And if they really are so undesirable that no one wants to watch what they are creating, then good. The market is working properly, no one should support something if it doesn't work or no one wants it. Sorry, that's how a market economy is supposed to work. If you want to pay for someone to make shit no one wants, you can go ahead. But for the rest of us who would rather not. All this would practically mean, is faster turnover or already dying studios.

Also, investors and creditors would still exist in a grassroots economy. Big investors can still fund projects and invest in creators, its just the incentive structure would be vastly different, and creators or studios would have more autonomy in production and dividends. Well if madhouse was working under a grassroots economy, they may have not spent so long on one project, and if it did sink them, then that's the effect from their mismanagement. But its not like the animators died, they would move on to other companies that want their talent. You seem to be insinuating that the whole anime economy would sink if the big studios went under, but that's just clearly not what would happen.

AlexielMudou said:
I agree. I buy manga when I can and even have a to-buy list. It's just that I got sucked into Funko Pops and it's going to take longer. *lol* I have to admit, working on this hasn't allowed me much money for anime series, but I know there's stuff I want like Rose of Versailles. It's just the older stuff can be a pain in the ass to get price wise. In the meantime I'm using "legit" streaming and illegal streaming to work on my viewing bucket list. It's a good way to pick out what series you like enough to buy without having to worry about spending thousands on buying every single thing.

Honestly, I'm waiting for Viz to release all of Sailor Moon in one set. Not sure why they wouldn't take advantage of such a cash grab.