Dororo Episode 17 Discussion

nightcrawlercyp said:
It was a k episode but the fact they bring again the false moral dilemma is annoying. There is no dilemma... the demons must be killed. Even if the land prospers the people are dying and getting eaten. What point is having a rich land with no one to enjoy it? Is so stupid!

nightcrawlercyp said:
It was a k episode but the fact they bring again the false moral dilemma is annoying. There is no dilemma... the demons must be killed. Even if the land prospers the people are dying and getting eaten. What point is having a rich land with no one to enjoy it? Is so stupid!

Erabel said:
Okay, but how did Hyakkimaru know where to go to find Dororo?

Erabel said:
Okay, but how did Hyakkimaru know where to go to find Dororo?

JGChaves said:


But Daigo's pact didn't create the demons. Didn't Hyakkimaru kill several demons outside of Daigo's land without recovering parts of his body? Ayakashis have existed in the world of this anime for a long time and will continue existing even if the 12 specific demons are killed. So even after Hyakkimaru gets all his body parts back, people will still get eaten.

Yavimaya said:
aaa that's so cool! (ep 13 vs ep 17) weren't the visuals slowly becoming clearer with each episode? or was it a sudden change? I thought it was changing with each new ep.
also, the ending grew on me. I like it, though nothing will top the first ending.

Yzma said:

I hope so too
Especially that Hyakkimaru survives in every dororo adaptation so far and that would be upsetting AF
Personally I don't belive either of them would die in the next episode, basing on the pictures on their official website

Yzma said:

I hope so too
Especially that Hyakkimaru survives in every dororo adaptation so far and that would be upsetting AF
Personally I don't belive either of them would die in the next episode, basing on the pictures on their official website

Orikasa_Momiji said:
The forehead rubbing scene at the beginning was so cute and heartwarming, love it a lot.
Lol at the "Oka-chan" Hyakkimaru learnt from Dororo.

Nurguburu said:
How did Hyakkimaru know where to go to find Dororo?

Mama Jukai xD

nightcrawlercyp said:
Yes, demons existed from before and the pact was like a mafia pact. I give you this so you will not make disasters happen. Thing is that 1) the 12 demons incite people to fight each other (he original anime banmon arc explained that the summoned demons influence men to kill each other) thus more ayakashi appear. For instance in this very episode due to the war started by Daigo you have the ghoul ayakashi. Also the twelve are insatiable. So to answer your question yes Ayakashi still killed people but before the number of eaten people was fairly small. The numbers increased in a giant way due to the 12 ayakashi in two ways: 1. the 12 eat much more than regular ayakashi; 2. the wars started by Daigo and by the 12 attracted much more ayakashi. Ayakashi reproduce a lot in time of war as they feed on negative emotions and in some cases are even born from them.
So it will probably not eliminate men being eaten by ayakashi but after killing Daigo and Tahomaru thenumber will reduce from 1000 per day to maybe 1 per year or less. At the current rate in a few years there will be no more people in the lands.
Also normally ayakashi are in small areas and live in reclusive areas like deserted houses, deep in the forest/mountain, etc. Thanks to Daigo they live in towns and feed freely gorging on the living. Also as a side note regular ayakashi can be killed by regular people as well.

seafirefly said:


I think you are being too fast to condemn Tahoumaru. I get that he is no better than his father in the original (didn't read it though), but we shouldn't mix the two stories together, they are already too different. This adaptation, though based on the manga, has its own inner logic, and we can't bring the points from the different versions while arguing about this one. Neither i think it is fair to fill the blind spots of this version by the episodes or reasons from the other ones that were never mentioned here.

Tahoumaru - here - is shown as an essentially good character, his soul - yet - has no red in it, and his reasoning is noble and understandable. What he is doing is in fact sacrificing his own heart and soul to not let his feelings get in the way of what he believes is his duty as an heir - to protect his people. He doesn't enjoy it, nor he does it for the power or greed, unlike his father. He has been the first to straightforwardly accuse Daigo of doing this because of his ambitions, remember? Tahoumaru's position is unenviable and there is so much to explore, really, that i wish his side of the story would be more prominent. I don't know how the creators will resolve this, but i hope they has't made his character more complex and spent so much time to show the good in him just to reduce him to a simple bad guy who should be just killed in the end. I hope he still can be saved somehow (even Darth Vader was:)

What worsen this dilemma is that sacrificing is an integral part of ruling. Generals can't avoid sacrificing their soldiers to achieve the victory, whether soldiers themselves are willing to sacrifice their lives for their country or not. On the war the majority is more important than an individual. And Tahoumaru views this situation as a war where the enemy is the disastrous force from which he should defend his land. And the only weapon they have is the demons because this Force isn't something that you can fight with your own hands.
What he has to do is to understand that this force is simply fate, and you can't feed the demons forever - the consequences will strike inevitably, and sometimes it is better to let people suffer their fate, fight it with their own hands and spirit, than try to shield them from it with the help of the insatiable evil.

Also, this moral dilemma seems false when we are discussing it in the forum as an abstract concept of achieving good with evil, warm and comfortable before our monitors, but imagine you facing the inevitable death from starvation, flood or some freaking meteorite falling on your town - and there are demons to kindly offer you the only way to survive. I guess, even if we are perfectly aware that the demons are pure evil, and even if we are religious enough to understand that we'll only make our future life/afterlife worse by accepting this offer, there still would be a huge temptation to choose life now and deal with the consequences later.

nightcrawlercyp said:

1. The only essential thing they modified was the whole calamnity thing and trying desperately to push their moral dillema
2. Tahomaru is the same in both stories. The fact he did not wait to talk to his mother proves it
3.The war was started by Daigo to rule over the whole Japan. Also only really bad generals sacrifice soldiers for a lost cause like Daigo.
4. All the demons did was not attacking the capital and increased the attack on all other humans
5. I agree with the last paragraph but this is not excuses the writers of the reboot from what they did i.e. pushing ad nauseam the idea of relative morals. Also just because us humans are weak does not mean accepting evil as normal as you propise. I am sorry but they did messed up really bad. They know they did, the ones that read the manga or saw the original anime know they did.

As a side note this way of thinking short term is why the world past ww2 is in the mess it is. At some point you cannot kick the responsibility to future generations anymore.

seafirefly said:


1. Is that so? I thought they modified much more, but my impression is based solely on some reviews and comments. So can't argue on that. I consciously avoid any spoilers to percieve this work as it is, without comparing it to the other versions. Maybe after it's finished i'll check out the original.

2. Again, can't argue on that, since i only saw the bit on youtube when he dies in 1969 anime. And my impression is that so far he is really different. Maybe the things will go down to the same outcome, idk. I hope not. For now Taho is trying to become this stone cold leader and believes his emotions weaken him, this is what i see. The fact he did not wait to talk to his mother only proves that he pushes his human feelings aside, not that he suddenly lost them altogether and really doesn't care anymore.
Since they've already changed the story, they may as well change the conclusion to fit the new narrative more. But we'll see.

3.1. Daigo has started the "regular" war for lands and power, and in this war he is the agressor who devastates the other lands. Yes. But what i was talking about is the metaphorical war against the calamities that threaten his land, which is depicted as some natural force no one can control without the help of supernatural powers. In this war Daigo's domain is the defending side, so to speak. As you have said, the calamities concept is the novelty of this adaptation, and it changes the story quite drastically. Tahoumaru's motivation here is to protect the land from the doom that was locked and bound by sacrificing his brother, not just from the consequences of the war his father started. If there was no natural disasters and demons were only needed to bring success to Daigo in his conquer of the country, things would have been much simpler and more evident, of course. But this is another story, more complicated but not necessarily worse. Depends on the future development. But the fact that it makes people think and argue over these serious matters is already an achievement.

3.2. No war is fought without sacrificing. And to sacrifice only 1 person to win a war is actually a genious strategy. So this is perfectly understandable why people of his land consider Daigo to be a great ruler who brought them prosperity while there are calamities and devastation everywhere else: he has achived that not by hecatombs of dead but by some divine miracle and wise management, or so they think. I'm not excusing Daigo, i'm just enjoying the different perspectives of this story.

The cause is lost, this is true, but how many people understand that the fate cannot be rewritten and you will have to deal with the consequences of your actions? Ironically, but Daigo does: he is aware that he will be sent to hell for what he did. But what about all the other people of his land? What is their part in all this? And this is where it gets complicated since it depends on what you fundamentally believe. A lot of people believe that we only live once and that it is some random chance that decides to place us in this or that body, place and circumstances to live our lives. From this position Daigo's deal is good for the people because they get the chance to live a better life, sacrificing nothing, as it's only Daigo who will pay the debt. What about the future generations? well, maybe there won't be any cataclysms by that time, who knows, whatever. They're not even aware of his deal with the demons so you can't consider them accomplices. It's like they're innocent in all this. Maybe that's what Tahoumaru (this version) stands on. But if we live many times (which is the eastern concept), it changes the perspective completely: no one is innocent; your present life is the product of your past actions; escaping your karma in this life only shifts it to the next, so the deal is meaningless at best. Also, the future generations is actually you in your future life :D The one who stands on that point understands that no demons will actually cure anything and, yes, it's better to let people suffer from the calamities now than to further complicate this mess by bringing demons into it. Tl;dr: don't apply the demons, they're useless.

I'm curious what argument they will use to show Hyakkimaru's choice to kill the demons (while pushing "the innocent people of Daigo's land" further down into the hell) as an essentially right? Since they already touched a really deep subject of a "lesser evil" and now are actively questioning his right to return his body, they can't just wave it away in the end with something primitive like demons are evil, so let's kill the demons. At least i expect something more, though maybe i shouldn't since this is an anime, not a philosophical treatise.

4. I think what the demons did for Daigo isn't related to the random ghouls at all. His deal includes protection from the disasters and military success. No demons/ghouls' actions mentioned. I guess they was attaking people earlier, they continue to eat them now and they won't stop doing it even after Hyakkimaru eliminates the 12. It's not like they were locked and Daigo unleashed them. I suppose your points from the previous post are taken from the original, since i can't remember anything as explicit as the statistics of demons-caused deaths in this adaptation. This is interesting, but i still stand on my point that this adaptation has the right to deviate from the original and obviously is doing that. Also, people fought wars and hated each other since forever, no demons needed for that. Maybe it became somewhat worse after the Daigo's deal, but Daigo is not Sauron.

5. Well, i'm not pushing the idea of evil being normal, evil is evil. My point is that this weakness is a part of human nature, and no story would be of any interest if it wasn't exploring that complexity. We should not excuse the evil, but we should try to understand what makes people fall for it. Alas, we don't live in the ideal world, and there is a constant fight within us, as well as outside.

Completely agree on your last point. Exactly what Daigo and Tahoumaru should try to understand. And Taho is a good boy so i will believe in him, well, at least until the new episode breaks my hopes T_T

And, imho, they didn't mess up the story _yet_. They just complicated the premise. So until the last episode is out i will restrain myself from judging.

Omaiwashinduru said:
just look at her😳😳😳😍😍 how they make these characters so DAMN beautiful!!