Doom of female characters written by Masashi Kishimoto - Masashi Kishimoto himself, worst writer of female characters in history of fiction... Or is he?
| yeah we all know Sakura sucks but Kishimoto isn't the worst at writing female characters. What is the point of this thread? |
 ☆☆☆ "There's a huge difference between one and infinity. However, compared to the difference between existence and non-existence, one and infinite are nearly the same. I am the child destined to become the best witch... no... The greatest Creator in the world...!" -Maria Ushiromiya ☆☆☆ |
| Yea Kishimoto seems to have lost his fckn mind every time he had to write a female character, but it's not like he is an outlier among battle manga authors. His ineptitude in that department is so great that i almost hope that it was on purpose. |
Psajdak said: idontknowsarcasm said: Yeah, I saw some...have you ever watch harems? there is when you encounter the worst female writen characters. And now that you said that, maybe calling Kishi's females worst wasn't right, more his females are the most neglected characters. Most of his cast was neglected. Sai, Rock Lee, Kiba, Neiji, Gara and every female character had the same fate for example, you can name even more characters. That was one of the problems with the show imo. |
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Psajdak said: At first I thought only to reply to this one person in thread Did anyone else kinda like TenTen?, but post ended up being longer than I expected, and also not just focused on what was originally supposed to be... https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1756663 So, it just became thread material in itself. BRAINDEADPARTY said: Because that's simply how it is; you would have said the same thing about any other female character if they were in her place. still don't know why Sakura had to be the main female character. I don't know if I need to remind people of this, but it's not character's fault for how author treats them, especially when we are talking about Kishimoto, arguably the worst writer of female characters ever, period. Whatever other girl were part of Team 7, they would still love Sasuke, friendzone Naruto, and Kishi would pretty much ignore them compared to her teamates, and Kakashi. Sakura had potential to become amazing Genjutsu user, but instead Kishi decided to make her Tsunade 2, just for the sake of those stupid parallels with previous generations, that he liked to do so much. Instead, illusions became Sasuke's thing, even though Sharingan was originally all about copying tehniques, and following movements of other peple. I mean, don't forget also about Kurenai, who in her first fight was beaten in her own game against Itachi... Also, being biggest Sasuke's fan ever, there is no way Kishi would ever allow Sakura to stop loving him, even though he never wrote why Sakura continued to like him - at first it was okay, just a little girl liking good looking, and cool boy, but later... Don't forget Karin who also liked Sasuke, and he almost killed her, how she reacted when they met again. People say they like Temari, but she as Kishi's female character wasn't any better either, she had that victory over Tayuya, and afterwards, she was just around. If I had to guess, I think she owes a lot to her voice actress Romi Park who kinda made her sound badass... Hinata, everyone can say what they want, was liked mainly because she liked Naruto, and because of her looks which many found cute, but he barely had any sentences in manga besides Naruto-kun, and few times that she said something more than that, fans behaved like she was the most awesome being. Not to mention, she spent more time being Naruto's satellite than even being concerned with her own team. It is why I prefer anime in comparison to manga, because it has given more screentime to characters that aren't Naruto, Uchiha in general, or Kakashi. It would have been better if Kishi just wrote yaoi, or not have female character among main cast; Sakura was fine supporting, but terrible main character, especially because Kishi one day decided to go with all that light of Naruto vs darkness of Sasuke thing. As for Tenten, she is cool, had unique ninjutsu, but at the end of day, just another female character poorly done by Kishi; at least she has role of main heroine in that Rock Lee spin-off, and if I can be honest, she's better written than any female in main manga, even if her role is being straight guy, or girl... If you want series where authors treat their female characters well, check out Avatar: The Last Airbender, or The Legend of Korra... Than you will see what competent female means. Enjoy in thread. Agree with this post. Kishimoto is one of worst writers to write female anime characters. But its not that impressive considering how they are so many horrible female anime characters written by even worst Authors. |
DemonDarknightDec 19, 2018 3:50 PM
| Yes, Kishimoto was terrible at writing female characters. Sakura got the short end of the stick, but Sasuke's character was also a trainwreck since the timeskip. And like someone else said, a lot of other characters, like Sai or Lee, were sidelined. Now, was he the worst writer ever? I think that's not really true (altho it's debatable I admit). I hate his treatment of Sakura a lot, trust me, but honestly I've seen stuff where it's just as bad or possibly worse (SAO, Bleach, to name a few popular ones) |
Electik said: i think shounen/battle manga mangakas are sort of bad at writing women in general simply because they don’t spend enough time on the girls to actually flesh out their characters. like girls are either cute and tsundere, or cute and friendly etc. a major part of their personality is just being a cute sidekick to the main character and they rarely get any more development. One of few series female anime characters in shounen battle manga thats great are Claymore. |
| i love naruto but i agree with this, all of kishimoto's female characters are one dimensional. they don't have personality traits apart from stereotyes and they are purely centered around men. if you want to see strong female characters in an anime i recommend fma:b, all of them are written beautifully. |
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Laciani said: Who cares anyways, since the serie it self is bad enough. Your face is bad enough! Yeah, a lot of female characters in naruto are crap, so are a lot of the male characters though. Despite a lot of characters in the series having a cool factor, not many of them are well-developed. |
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ |
| Kishimoto only wanted to write a cool ninja story with fights and cute girls who are in love with the main characters. His manga went out of control and he only drew stupid fights. Tenten is best girl. |
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| Oh yeah and Tayuya is the best girl btw. |
| ☆☆☆ "There's a huge difference between one and infinity. However, compared to the difference between existence and non-existence, one and infinite are nearly the same. I am the child destined to become the best witch... no... The greatest Creator in the world...!" -Maria Ushiromiya ☆☆☆ |
Electik said: Levi_Ackerman_10 said: One of few series female anime characters in shounen battle manga thats great are Claymore. ooh! thanks for the rec! I’ll check it out!! Your welcome pal claymore is very good series |
| I don’t see why this warranted a new thread, but... Another bullet point for why I should watch Avatar already, I guess. |
| Kishimoto actually admitted in a interview athat he wasn't good at writing Female characters . DaCraziGuy said: Psajdak said: Yeah, I saw some... And now that you said that, maybe calling Kishi's females worst wasn't right, more his females are the most neglected characters. Most of his cast was neglected. Sai, Rock Lee, Kiba, Neiji, Gara and every female character had the same fate for example, you can name even more characters. That was one of the problems with the show imo. That's what you get with an overly bloated cast |
| You can't get worse at writing females than Tomino. You simply can't. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Horikoshi Kouhei the writter of Boku no Hero. One would think that on 2014 with so many examples, so much manga and anime it would be hard for someone to commit such massive mistakes that were commited on the past. My mind literally blurs any scene with girls on BNHA. |
Check out my taste and my profile. |
| I'm pretty sure he admitted at some point he doesn't know how to write female characters but who cares anymore, the series already ended. |
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| Tsunade and konan shits on every female from avatar and legend of korra |
AkerakaiDec 20, 2018 9:44 AM
| Most underated anime on mal: https://myanimelist.net/anime/4651/Yume_no_Crayon_Oukoku?q=Yume%20ni%20crayon |
| Who the fuck cares, all anime girls as a whole are not good to begin with because their whole existence are nothing but cum bucket sex toys. If you want more actual well-written female characters then Western Cartoons is what they really belong. That's why anime is a huge mistake. |
| Anime sucks, all of them are bad and that's a fact! |
Pullman said: You can't get worse at writing females than Tomino. You simply can't. You really think so? I thought Gundam had a lot of interesting female characters like Sayla, Haman, Four, Dianna Soreil and a lot more. |
| Temari and Konan were the best written females, Hinata I'll always like but she peaked only a bit more than Sakura, at least she wasn't a bitch and annoying |
| Yu-gi-oh (especially the latter ones) has some of the worst female characters I have ever seen |
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| Now they're milking Boruto for god's sake. |
| no matter how badly written they were, you can't stop dem doujin artists ;) |
| An admin's dickhead Soul banned me from MAL t('v't) |
| Naruto has the worst female character designs of all of battle shounen. I literally can't name a single girl from that show that's even remotely attractive. Boku no Hero Academia isn't great either with female characters, but at least it has a few okay designs. |
Bourmegar said: Kishimoto actually admitted in a interview athat he wasn't good at writing Female characters . DaCraziGuy said: Most of his cast was neglected. Sai, Rock Lee, Kiba, Neiji, Gara and every female character had the same fate for example, you can name even more characters. That was one of the problems with the show imo. That's what you get with an overly bloated cast Yup, with so many side characters with relevance and having 2 MCs with parallel sub plots the thing gets messy. |
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| I'd say he's not really good in writing character at all. Naruto had maybe two good characters at best, three if I stress it. The rest was either passable because they were stylish or bad. |
Pullman said: You can't get worse at writing females than Tomino. You simply can't. So far, I watched the MSG compilation trilogy, The 08th MS team, and 6 episodes of Zeta and there are still no shitty female characters in sight. |
LeonhartAugustDec 20, 2018 3:42 PM
Richard_King said: Eh it's not that bad, I mean compare Naruto to My hero academia, I'd say the kunuochi are more capable than the female heroes in my opinion, but no one says shit about them. I agree. Boku no Hero Academia and Black Clover are far worse than Naruto in that regard. |
| ☆☆☆ "There's a huge difference between one and infinity. However, compared to the difference between existence and non-existence, one and infinite are nearly the same. I am the child destined to become the best witch... no... The greatest Creator in the world...!" -Maria Ushiromiya ☆☆☆ |
AshitaNoJonas said: Pullman said: You can't get worse at writing females than Tomino. You simply can't. You really think so? I thought Gundam had a lot of interesting female characters like Sayla, Haman, Four, Dianna Soreil and a lot more. It's not like I hate all of them, but the bad ones are really among the worst characters I've ever seen (Reccoa, Quess) and he deserves the title based on those alone. And there is also a general, lazy sexism that is present in almost all of Tomino's female character dynamics. This sense of not having to flesh out females and explain their motivations or why they suddenly change sides or their personality does a 180 because 'that's how women supposedly are', they don't make sense, their decisions are impulsive and only based on emotions like falling in love or wanting to marry and thereby he can make them do whatever he wants in his stories even if it makes absolutely no sense, because women make no sense to him in general. You can't conceive a character like Reccoa who would casually commit genocide because of a crush she has on a sociopath that she was fighting for most of the series and then just switches sides because that crush and changes all her personality, values and morals from one ep to the next based on that random crush, without thinking very little of women's ability to be rational, normal, reasonable human beings like anyone else. When men fall in love in tomino shows they can still think rationally and base their decisions on other things that are important to them like friends or their values, but with women once they get horny they stop caring about literally everything and just want to get together with the dude they fell for, even if they have to murder their own friends and exterminate millions of innocent people. I think that's pretty much how Tomino sees women, at least based on what I've seen him write into his shows and his complete lack of providing any other explanations for why these characters act like that beyond 'they're a women'. He has more or less two archetypes of females: 1. The completely emotional, irrational Reccoa type of female who can change her values and personality and everything she believed in from one moment to the next because of an impulsive, irrational crush. Reccoa and Quess are the worst example of this, but even some characters I like (for example a lot of the female artificial newtypes like Four or Puru) fall pretty mich in this 'emotionally unstable' category). 2. The opposite who completely abandoned emotions because obviously (as evidenced by type 1) women can't control or balance their emotions and rational thought so for them to not be completely unstable, they have to abandon them and become basically heartless robots dedicated to a cause. Those females often becomes a kind of leader or antagonist that almost feels like a robot at times (Haman for example). And I guess there could be a third type, the kind of fluffy supporting female that is just there to help the more important males in the plot as a sidekick or emotional support while rarely having any direct relevance to the plot. Basically just being a walking bundle of idealized, traditional, female gender role stereotypes. The type you see in tons of anime in general. Pleasant to watch, boring to analyze. So yeah, idk, I've seen too much Gundam, too much Tomino to see most of his females as more than walking memes of sexist stereotypes in one way or the other. In the worst case that ends up leading to some of the most unlikable and toxic characters in all of fiction (Reccoa) and in the not-so-bad cases it leads to somewhat enjoyable stereotypes or archetypes that still rarely feel like fully fleshed out human beings in the same way a lot of his male characters do. I mean don't get me wrong, part of this is definitely a larger issue of how Tomino writes characters and conflict and emotions in general, which is not particularly realistic or relatable in many cases, and frequently straight-up frustrating. But when you combine this general issue in his character writing with his worst female stereotypes, it truly reaches level of horrible character writing that even shows like Akame ga Kill or Kabaneri (two of the shows where I find the character writing to be absolutely horrid) can't reach. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I would argue that Hirohiko Araki is much worse at writing female characters. I mean honestly I'm sitting here trying to think of any female character from JJBA who had any importance to the story and just can't think of anyone. So I definitely don't think Kishimoto is the worst there is. |
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| I've seen worse, but like, characters in general in Naruto (Except for Naruto and Sasuke) are neglected, they are just conveniently there when the plot (Which is terrible, btw) requires them to be, when all of the ninjas teams reunited in the very beggining of the Shippuden phase, Neji was the only one who became a Jounin, still he died for a fuckin wood stick few arcs later, so, speaking about the women, i think Kishimoto neglects them in the same way, i say that, if you want at least to see Naruto entirely you need to handle one of the main characters that are Naruto and Sasuke, the rest it's just not important. |
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CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: I would argue that Hirohiko Araki is much worse at writing female characters. I mean honestly I'm sitting here trying to think of any female character from JJBA who had any importance to the story and just can't think of anyone. So I definitely don't think Kishimoto is the worst there is. How far even are you, then? Unimportant is not the same thing as bad writing, and it also does get better in this regard. If you haven't read the manga though I'll just leave it at that As for the topic itself, yeah Sakura wasn't that great. The other female characters weren't bad per se, just insanely underutilized. It's kinda dumb saying other female characters would be the exact same if put into Sakura's position. If Kishimoto did that, then it wouldn't be Sakura's position anymore. If you put Hinata in Sakura's position but make her in love with Sasuke and do nothing useful, then it's still Sakura, that's just a palette swap. I can't really say Kishimoto is the worst, but just that he doesn't know how to juggle his insane cast of characters, which has been mentioned before. There were a few female characters that had potential but never got enough screentime, but that's not unique to the female characters, that's basically 80% of the entire cast. Also, Tite Kubo is worse. Rukia, just like Sakura did like nothing, but was more disappointing due to how important she initially seemed, and Orihime had the blandest personality I've ever seen in a heroine. Yoruichi was somewhat interesting at first like Rukia, then also gets just as underutilized (like a Naruto character), and Soi Fon was a piece of cardboard. Naruto's female characters still weren't great, but they were at least redeemable. I could actually remember the characters and their specific fights. I can barely remember the shit Rukia has done, besides like showing up in the beginning, and her Bankai scene. |
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OnionKnightRises said: CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: I would argue that Hirohiko Araki is much worse at writing female characters. I mean honestly I'm sitting here trying to think of any female character from JJBA who had any importance to the story and just can't think of anyone. So I definitely don't think Kishimoto is the worst there is. How far even are you, then? Unimportant is not the same thing as bad writing, and it also does get better in this regard. If you haven't read the manga though I'll just leave it at that I've read up till the end of part 7. Tbh I completely forgot about Jolyne though, but that's mainly because I try to forget that part 6 even exists. Lucy was a good character too, so yeah it does get better later down the line. The early parts are a sausage fest though. |
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| @Pullman Although I agree that Tomino is generally terrible at writing women, I’m curious about what you think of Sayla in particular. From what I recall she wasn’t overly emotional (or robotic) and had a lot more agency than most of the other women I’ve seen in MSG or Zeta. After a certain death took place I’d say she was easily one of the top three most important people on the White Base, alongside Bright and Amuro. |
| People say they actually loved Nino Arisugawa and I couldn't disagree more. So, it's all taste |
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| so what make him the worse writer of female characters? does he turn them into a walking fan-service that goes around nude all the time ? I see a lot of writers that made far worse female characters than what Masashi Kishimoto does. |
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| Yeah, Kishi is pretty bad at writing females, so is Kubo, but for Oda and Togashi it's not the case. It doesn't matter, though, since those are shounen shows - marketed towards young boys who just like to watch battles with simpler plots and characters and idealized female love interests. As for who is the worst at writing women, I cannot say. |
| Kubo is moderately better at writing female characters than Kishi, since a portion of the former's characters have relatively unique personalities that don't all boil down to being 1) infatuated with a childhood crush or savior/leader 2) prone to generic shonen female anger/jealousy tropes. Yoruichi alone is a more interesting character than just about all of Naruto's female characters combined. If Kishi had written Bleach, pretty much every female character would be Orihime Inoue or Momo Hinamori. |
| Harem is the opiate of the Anime fandom masses. |
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