Devilman: Crybaby Episode 10 Discussion

sakerter said:
Did Lilith turn everyone to orange juice again? DUMMIT

nokitron said:

>Ryo actually felt love and remorse for the first time (which wasn't shown in the manga)

You know what? This is too much.

Thess said:
I gave it a 3/5 out of consideration of the effort. The show by itself is good, the music, the animation, the style, and the original plotlines could have worked for a Devilman world set anime, but not for an adaptation of Devilman.

This is where it gets messy. When the director introduced the central theme of "love", I couldn't help but shudder, because Devilman's main theme isn't love, it's about how horrible war is and how human stupidity leads to misery and devastation. It's a manga written during the 70s, so there's a strong antiwar message in it. Satan doesn't need to learn how to *~love~*. Satan in the manga is completely aware of love, and has no issue to admit she/he is in love with Akira for that matter (not to Akira, of course, out of pride). After the last battle, Satan realization was how she/he did to humans and acted toward them exactly how God acted and did to demons which had led to her/his rebellion on their defense - which compared Akira and Satan of the past on page:

"The strong ones think they have the right to kill the weaker ones. Forgive me, Akira. I was an idiot."

This has nothing to do with Akira's dying or her/his romantic feelings, it's about the antiwar message which was Devilman central theme. Akira's death happens after the epiphany (which is relevant for future Devilman installments because God is the main villain of the saga). All of Satan's (and Ryo's) character was completely changed, from the backstory of both of them, to make them completely unrecognizable aside of their love for Akira. Might as well call them a different character. The same goes for Akira, Miki and how Miko was replaced by some ACTUAL OC which was never in the manga who ate up the screen with her pointless storyline. At least they did have the grace to just be Miko "in name" only rather than evoking some old designs by making the characters pretty much different as happened with Akira, Miki or Ryo.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good show, but I wish I could see the characters I actually liked on screen, no their weird cousins. I feel like Yuasa wanted to tell a story set in Devilman world rather than tell Devilman antiwar story, but he was contracted to do the latter so he did a weird mix of both which might have worked for some people but didn't work that well to me.



You know Hideaki Anno was inspired by Devilman?


Did you actually read the manga? Satan expressed remorse not just for Akira, but for everything that happened to humans and the war itself.

Toxic_Mongoose said:
Jenny went all Kill La Kill final boss there. One of my favorite characters. Not sure what I'll rate this. Pulled a Paradise Lost here by characterizing Ryo aka Satan. Entertaining, but I'd have preferred for it to end differently. Akira ;-; Worlds version 1, 2, and 3 in the final scene? Pretty good series, but most of the nudity, too much time dedicated to rap beats, and night effect where it's hard to see the fight scenes just detract from it.

nokitron said:


Bruh, there are only 6 minutes total of rapping.

Toxic_Mongoose said:


Still got tired of it. ;p Not counting the scene where Miko was listening to that rapper guy.

Tekakurika said:
in the first episodes I didn't like that sexualized content sometimes it looked like unnecessary mild-porno scenes but later there was more and more meaning and thematic content in the whole show and it ended better than it started.

anemonespotte said:


they were necessary, if it wasnt for netflix this show was impossible to make in japan. so for once accept it and dont act like a crybaby (eheh)

nokitron said:
Pardon me if something's wrong, but what I mean is the fragility that wasn't really shown in the manga. I couldn't really see whether Ryo wept or not until I looked carefully just now.

Thess said:


Ok, just saying Satan did weep and was very sad and so heartbroken that didn't care angels attacked and retook the planet which had been his/her original number one goal: keep God away from Earth. That's how devastated the events were to him/her, she/he gave up to grieve. It was different because the Satan in the show felt loss for the first time so was like a child lashing out, Satan in the manga recognized the feeling already. Because it wasn't about teaching Satan the meaning of love but Satan realizing his/her bad actions against humanity made him/her no better than God.

Thess said:


Ok, just saying Satan did weep and was very sad and so heartbroken that didn't care angels attacked and retook the planet which had been his/her original number one goal: keep God away from Earth. That's how devastated the events were to him/her, she/he gave up to grieve. It was different because the Satan in the show felt loss for the first time so was like a child lashing out, Satan in the manga recognized the feeling already. Because it wasn't about teaching Satan the meaning of love but Satan realizing his/her bad actions against humanity made him/her no better than God.

nokitron said:
Yeah, I notice the difference of Satan's intention.It almost feels like something was lost in translation, but regardless it is still well executed.

And I think should read Lady Devilman because I haven't read it (by not knowing it is actually a sequel).

Cyborg_Dragon said:
Wow that is probs the most depressing ending I have ever seen in pretty much anything it was all meaningless in the end, these are the endings I hate the most but it was not dragged out so there is that to it which makes me happy.

I guess you could call this series despair porn but I already knew that after watching episode one and the MC being a literal devil in the seinen genre never goes well, good thing it does not try and drag itself off after the biggest of tragedies. The fact I binged instead of doing work for college means I enjoyed it.

around episode 9 I did become numb to the situation, Humans looked like idiots killing themselves due to paranoia. The whole group of friends dying in episode 9 was horrible as shit but after watching this episode I am kind of glad they did not stick around as it did turn into a even worse shit show since the whole planet died.

I wish Akira death from his perspective was dragged out a bit. This last episode felt like what could have been a season two but they probably decided to go straight to the end.

E96825 said:

Seinen is not a genre and Devilman is shonen(which isn't a genre either).

E96825 said:

Seinen is not a genre and Devilman is shonen(which isn't a genre either).

E96825 said:
Honestly Crybaby managed to be decent despite Masaki Yuasa and that was simply because he still got enough from the original story not to make it terrible, I liked some of his other shows but he really missed it here with Devilman ranging from the art to his script. I wonder if it was netflix that forced him with the whole gay stuff with the runners

RediceRyan said:
Ends in the birth of a second Moon, that's pretty interesting.

Nothing- said:


um


no. just no. Seinen is aimed at an older demographic than shounen. And devilman certainly isn't shounen.



And as a reader of devil man I expected the ending. Still hit like a truck. I like the changes, felt fresh and familiar. Although the show might have benefited from being 12 episodes rather than 10. That way the ending could have been built up a bit more.

SzJ said:
Such a weird anime - cryptic and depressing. Anyway, the ending was unsatisfying - why did God wipe out half of the demons, then take a long break and then wipe out the rest? That didn't make any sense. Oh well, I guess the anime needed an everyone-dies-in-the-end ending, so that's why they did it.

Thess said:

Satan is hermaphrodite as all Nagai's angels in Devilman, but clearly identifies with feminine (while Michael, Satan's twin, is drawn as far more masculine and buff-er in comparison to Satan's voluptuous and dainty slim frame). Xe can choose the gender of the human's vessel at will though.

isekai said:
i see, this is the only Devilman anime i have seen

Thess said:


I assumed that. That's why I clarified. All demons can change their gender and grew any er parts they want, for that matter. Akira and any devilman can too, when they learn to control their transformations. So it's pointless to box them.

isekai said:


lol that sounds too convenient for the demons (or angels?) and devilmens extreme sexual urges, thanks for that

Gexis said:
Yo, this show blew me away. I went in this 100% blind just thinking maybe it'll be some ok show I watch on Netflix, not thinking at all that this would be better than anything I watched in 2017.

Thess said:
@tingy: I think I know what Yuasa tried to do with Ryo, the problem was that he failed to empathize why Ryo was so important to Akira just to push his Mary Suish version of Miki (that scene with the cops was so cringy) and somehow forget Akira desperately latched to as "last anchor" because he lost Ryo beforehand (in his "betrayal"), not because she taught him anything of value and help him grow as a person. She's more of a symbol to Akira than a real person. As in, he barely knows her in the manga and functions as a hot untainable crush who only starts liking him after his possession (she made fun of him being a wimp and a crybaby before) and flawed morality chain only because he lost Ryo and she's the only one who still believes in him in a way (and she wasn't without crisis of faith, she turned away from him when she heard Ryo's broadcast, screaming when he tried to reach for her - but accepts him after), even if he doesn't want to admit the later. It's obvious when (spoilers for the additions of Shin Devilman and Devilman Lady



Miki in Crybaby is again following some saintly versions of her I dislike. Manga Miki who sets a guy on fire fighting for her life, only notices Akira when he gets hot as any teenage girl would (she even hits on him saying he makes her horny), and threatens the angry mob with a knife telling she's a witch so they better worry. She's brash, imperfect, human and has her heart in the right place without coming out as obnoxious. She's not this spotless angel they are trying to sell you that she has to "pass the baton of love" without any imperfection in a situation of mass hysteria where she lost her family, and this makes her far more human and interesting than perfect flawless waifu persona of the show, even with less screentime. At the same time, he stripped away Ryo of his humanity, which he had, in fact, a lot. You can see Ryo's horror in the manga when he finds out his past is a lie, and his real devotion to fight the demons with Akira to save humanity before Jenny awakes his sealed memories against his will. He also visits Miki's grave in the added scene of Shinn Devilman and shows quiet grief over it.

This polarized the characters and made both of them more unattractive and simplistic. Akira's also changed, he's dumber than ever (he figured out Ryo was Satan in the manga without being told or getting a winged revealed). It was a powerful moment.

Some important plot details of the manga missing in the anime:



Also about the original TV series of Devilman.

SovereignSky said:
Nice points, I hate some parts of Devilman manga (unnecessary comedy and the completely diff values in Japan at that time) but I agree with Ryo and Miki. I initially thought he'd somehow bang Kuroda since she masturbated to him but wtv, back to Miki, it was kinda weird she didn't seem to care one bit about his sudden change and never expressed lust which you'd expect from such a drastically new appearance. If a chick changed like that and a guy did the same as Miki, he'd be called the worst male character etc.

I think he may have been trying to do that with Ryo, the baton pass failing seems to hint at that, like Akira was trying to get him to back down instead of killing him. Ryo not realizing Love till after the fact was weird since that's the whole point he made Akira a devilman.

Thess said:

Manga Miki drives a knife in a mob guy's head and throws Molotov Cocktails at people, killing a few of them in self-defense. I've no words about this defanged version of her that must be all about ~Love and Understanding~ to justify Akira's idealized views of her which never matched the reality in the Manga (and this was a GOOD thing), it's just as dehumanizing of the character as erasing all of Ryo's passion, conflict, and empathy.

tingy said:

It seems like the camp is pretty split, regarding whether people liked the manga or this anime better. I'll definitely read the manga to see for myself, especially after reading Nagai's comment. He seems to be a good person and I feel like I'd like what he had to offer thematically in the manga more than Yuasa's retelling of Devilman, which has more focus on love, but fell short imo.

Thess said:

Ryo not realizing Love till after the fact was weird since that's the whole point he made Akira a devilman.